Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Why would any conservative vote against a $4.1 trillion tax cut?
Washington Examiner ^ | 12/20/2012 | Conn Carroll

Posted on 12/20/2012 9:38:52 AM PST by SeekAndFind

Taxes are set to go up by $4.6 trillion on January 1st. That is the law of the land. Yesterday, the official tax scorekeeper of Congress, the Joint Committee on Taxation, released their analysis of Speaker John Boehner’s, R-Ohio, Plan B. According to the JTC, Plan B would cut taxes by $4.1 trillion over ten years.

It should come as no surprise that Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., whose entire political career has been devoted to enlarging the size and scope of the federal government, is whipping hard against Plan B. “I haven’t seen her work a vote this hard since health care” in 2010, one top Democratic aide told Politico. Pelosi is expected to get every member of her Democratic Caucus to vote against the bill.

To address Republican concerns that Plan B does not undo the scheduled $500 billion cuts to Defense spending, Boehner has also scheduled a vote on a bill from House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan, R-Wis. Ryan’s bill not only replaces the Defense spending cuts with other cuts to domestic spending, but also shrinks government even more. “This bill replaces the sequester for one year with responsible spending cuts, that protect our national security, and provides an additional $200 billion in savings over ten years, Majority Whip Eric Cantor spokesman Rory Cooper told Politico. “This is yet another step House Republicans have taken this year to address the real fiscal problem in Washington, which is spending.”

So not only does Plan B cut taxes by $4.1 trillion, but it also now preserves the $1.2 trillion in cuts Republicans fought for last year. And it cuts another $200 billion in spending. “The speaker’s plan is the best we are going to do and I think people recognize that,” Rep. Bob Turner, R-N.Y., told National Review.

If the House passes Plan B, Senate Democrats will then be forced to either amend the bill, thus putting what were previously back room negotiations out into the open, or they will have to own the $4.6 trillion tax hike on the American people. If Plan B fails, then House Republicans will own the tax hike. Why would any conservative want that?


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: conservative; debt; fiscalcliff; taxcuts

1 posted on 12/20/2012 9:38:58 AM PST by SeekAndFind
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

because this spending cut is all smoke and mirrors and will never be actually enacted.


2 posted on 12/20/2012 9:44:19 AM PST by camle (keep an open mind and someone will fill it full of something for you)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

I’m not stupid enough to fall for lies over 10 years.

Republicans are apparently stupid enough, but I’m not.

Cut it right now. Even trade.

Anything else, go to Hell.


3 posted on 12/20/2012 9:45:51 AM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Why is Boehner’s Bill and Ryans Bill two separate Bills. Why haven’t they incl;uded both into the one bill.


4 posted on 12/20/2012 9:47:07 AM PST by Venturer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: camle

Yes, smoke & mirrors. And part of the smoke is the huge numbers & the failure to talk about the time period. They keep referring to numbers ‘over ten years’. Let’s deal with one year at a time, please.

And the R’s should really be putting up something substantial for cutting - like the Dept of Education. If they aren’t really willing to cut big gov’t, they’re just playing games.


5 posted on 12/20/2012 9:48:34 AM PST by Twotone (Marte Et Clypeo)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
“The speaker’s plan is the best we are going to do and I think people recognize that,” Rep. Bob Turner, R-N.Y., told National Review.

Think again.

6 posted on 12/20/2012 9:53:44 AM PST by TADSLOS (I took extra credit at the School of Hard Knocks)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

This is a trial balloon for the GOPe to sell out.

If the conservatives rollover for the Plan B tax hike plan, things will spiral completely out of control from there.


7 posted on 12/20/2012 9:55:15 AM PST by VictoryGal (Never give up, never surrender! REMEMBER NEDA)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: camle
However, it forces the Senate to deal with the issue.

If passed, the House can wash its hands and go home.

8 posted on 12/20/2012 9:56:35 AM PST by what's up
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Venturer
2 bills makes it difficult for Obama to demagogue.

If it's all mashed together he can lie about the details.

If tax cuts aren't included in discussions about the sequester, he will be forced to discuss ONLY cuts.

9 posted on 12/20/2012 9:59:28 AM PST by what's up
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: what's up

teh senate will pass it and obama will sign it and we’ll get the shaft.


10 posted on 12/20/2012 9:59:35 AM PST by camle (keep an open mind and someone will fill it full of something for you)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: camle

Why is it a shaft?


11 posted on 12/20/2012 10:00:36 AM PST by what's up
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Change the game completely. Pass a 30% across the board tariff on all imported goods. It will raise $600 billion per year. Importers will demand their overseas factories slash prices which will hurt Chinese economy. Union workers will love it and begin thinking about their bosses slavish devotion to Democrats. Multinational corporations will have to reconsider investment plans and will reallocate capital to the US. US small business will greatly benefit, particularly small manufacturing firms. Put Obama in the uncomfortable position of siding with big business and the Chicoms.


12 posted on 12/20/2012 10:16:29 AM PST by Soul of the South
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Soul of the South

I like that.

One of the early things that the radical Left accomplished was to convince everyone that tariffs were evil and that Smoot-Hawley caused the Great Depression. Tariffs have their place — and we haven’t had anything like “free trade” in a long, long time. The tariff idea you suggest seems long overdue to me.


13 posted on 12/20/2012 10:22:48 AM PST by ClearCase_guy (Republicans have made themselves useless, toothless, and clueless.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: what's up

It is not a shaft. It is just not good policy. But, we don’t have the branches of Government needed to implement our right policy. So, this is the best we can do for now and we should. I like Plan B as the last resort.

Spending cuts can be handled as part of debt ceiling negotiations.


14 posted on 12/20/2012 10:24:50 AM PST by indianrightwinger
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: TADSLOS

The best we’re going to get, is already in place.

Hitting the edge of the fiscal clif, will be much like watching Greece on the big screen and in slow motion.

The fall will be majestic, if inevitably tragic in the end.

The sequester is in place and is the applicable law as of this minute. The tax rates, which seemed to be good enough for the Clinton years, are somewhat more onerous, but not unbearable, at least on the short term. The big roadbloack, and one that the Current Regime is trying desperately to keep eyes averted from, is the bundle of NEW taxes that become effective with the adoption of the “Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act of 2010”, which has been declared a tax package by no less than the US Supreme Court.

That is the real tax increase, and shall impact hiring and general productivity far more than a mere increase in the income tax and capital gains tax increases.


15 posted on 12/20/2012 10:29:58 AM PST by alloysteel (Bronco Bama - the cowboy who whooped up and widened the stampede.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: what's up

No it doesn’t. The senate has already said there will be no vote. This is an idiotic Kabuki theater dance. Polling on this issue has the republicans upside down. This will not change any minds. On top of wich it is a bad bill.

Bring a specific bill with specific cuts and sell it. Posturing with an unpopular speaker with approvals at 34 against Obama with approvals at 56, how do you think it is going to play? Watching this suicide mission is frustrating as hell!


16 posted on 12/20/2012 10:39:14 AM PST by chopperjc
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: indianrightwinger
So, this is the best we can do for now and we should.

Hmmm. Seems I've heard that statement when Insane McCain was nominated. And when Romney was nominated. If this is the best--either candidates or policy--that the GOP can come up with, then it is worse than useless.

17 posted on 12/20/2012 10:39:44 AM PST by jammer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: what's up

cos we’ll end up with higher taxes, and no spending cuts. which means more debt and our children will be left holding the bag


18 posted on 12/20/2012 10:40:58 AM PST by camle (keep an open mind and someone will fill it full of something for you)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: indianrightwinger
Spending cuts can be handled as part of debt ceiling negotiations.

Yes, I agree and I prefer that it all be handled separate from the end-of-year tax issues.

Ryan has a good idea in splitting it up.

19 posted on 12/20/2012 10:42:33 AM PST by what's up
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: chopperjc
The senate has already said there will be no vote.

You mean Reid has said?

And you believe what he says? Of course he's saying that now to get the House to not pass the bill.

Reid is not known for keeping his word.

20 posted on 12/20/2012 10:44:48 AM PST by what's up
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

One thing has become clear to me in the past few months. One of the reasons that Democrats and Liberals are doing so well in advancing their agendas is this: Even in their lunacy, they are united.

During the Presidential campaign you could choose any major network, including FOX, and the main theme was always the same, criticizing Republicans. Even Republican pundits spent their air time pontificating about what the GOP was doing wrong and very little if any of it praising and encouraging them to hold forth on their basic principles.

Nothing has changed. Loopy Liberals devote their efforts almost entirely to the protection and promotion of their figurehead and his Communist/Marxist agenda.

I don’t have any illusions that the GOP will survive this Socialist leaning population. But I would at least like to see the historical record reflect that they held to their principles right to the end. It looks as if they’re going to breathe their last in a food fight of their own. We got to this sorry state by “compromising” with bad actors. Since the retreat has already been made by offering tax increases on the rich; why not stand together, pass a bill, send it to the Senate and go home. Republicans could offer Obama everything he has asked and he would push for even more at the last second. Stop pretending we’re dealing with a rational human being.


21 posted on 12/20/2012 10:51:57 AM PST by Aleya2Fairlie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

It isn’t a tax cut. These are tax rates we’ve had in place for 11-years. They’re no longer the “Bush Tax Cuts” ... they’re just “current tax rates”. Avoiding a $4.6 trillion tax hike with a $4.1 trillion “tax cut” is a 500 billion dollar tax hike.

I don’t see why they ever needed an expiration date.

SnakeDoc


22 posted on 12/20/2012 10:57:32 AM PST by SnakeDoctor (Texas survived one Obama term, and we'll survive another. The rest of you are screwed.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SnakeDoctor

The had to have an expiration date because Bush could only get them through reconciliation which required them to be temporary.


23 posted on 12/20/2012 11:04:19 AM PST by what's up
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: what's up

The senate has already passed a tax bill keeping cut for under 250k. Why would Reid vote on a bill that is worse for his side? That is silly. Of course it will not get to a vote. Hell not sure Boehner has the votes yet in the house.

Whip count me 60 senate vote regardless. Again stupid Kabuki that will not help our side. Once again on top of all that it is a bad bill.


24 posted on 12/20/2012 11:04:48 AM PST by chopperjc
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: what's up

A failure of leadership.

SnakeDoc


25 posted on 12/20/2012 11:06:12 AM PST by SnakeDoctor (Texas survived one Obama term, and we'll survive another. The rest of you are screwed.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: jammer

And we had a deal for about 10-1 spending vs revenue that we turned down last year betting on a Romney win. Now lucky to get 1-1.

We bet on Romney. Let that sink in.


26 posted on 12/20/2012 11:09:50 AM PST by chopperjc
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Without a vision the people perish.

It doesn’t take a genius to see at this point that the Republicans have no vision whatsoever.


27 posted on 12/20/2012 11:11:00 AM PST by EternalVigilance (Today's headline: 'As expected, Boehner folds.' This tag should be good for quite awhile...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SnakeDoctor
Really?

The Bush tax cuts got us huge growth. Don't think that was failure.

28 posted on 12/20/2012 11:14:20 AM PST by what's up
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: chopperjc
So they'll have to reconcile the bills.

Reid will bring his numbers up from 250K especially since Obama proposed 400K.

29 posted on 12/20/2012 11:16:00 AM PST by what's up
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind; chris37

yep aanything “over 10 years” is a lie. They have absolutely no control over what the next session of Congress does


30 posted on 12/20/2012 12:05:00 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: what's up

Yes, really. A better leader doesn’t set an expiration date for a good idea. He set the table for us to re-fight the same war on weaker footing.

SnakeDoc


31 posted on 12/20/2012 12:39:41 PM PST by SnakeDoctor (Texas survived one Obama term, and we'll survive another. The rest of you are screwed.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: SnakeDoctor
How do you propose they could have gotten a tax cut w/o reconciliation?

Think he could have gotten enough Dems on board? Laughable.

32 posted on 12/20/2012 1:12:18 PM PST by what's up
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: what's up

Its been done before. I don’t remember expiration dates on any prior tax cuts. Certainly not on any tax hikes.

SnakeDoc


33 posted on 12/20/2012 1:16:39 PM PST by SnakeDoctor (Texas survived one Obama term, and we'll survive another. The rest of you are screwed.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: SnakeDoctor
Its been done before.

Of course. When we've had larger majorities or more Democrats agreeing to it.

You have to look at congressional makeup. If you don't have enough support you must go with reconciliation.

Or no tax cut at all.

34 posted on 12/20/2012 1:50:22 PM PST by what's up
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: what's up

Dude, a lot more to the bills than just the tax code. Not sure why you think it will get a vote in the senate when Reid said no and Obama said veto. No reconciliation the Dems are not going to put it up. End of story. Also to have a conference would take amendments. Let me say it again NOT going to happen.


35 posted on 12/20/2012 2:46:40 PM PST by chopperjc
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: SnakeDoctor
I agree with your premise. Basically, all they are going to come up with is tax increases on a lot of people--probably everyone--and phantom, i.e., no spending cuts.

But, to be fair, there was an excise tax on the Vietnam war that was ended. I suppose I'm one of the few old enough on FR to have actually paid that.

36 posted on 12/20/2012 3:38:17 PM PST by jammer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
First off: Cut ALL goveco (except defence) by 25% effective 1-2-1013.
37 posted on 12/21/2012 7:20:06 AM PST by dearolddad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson