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RI Teacher Says"I Quit!"/ Government schooling child abuse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBSgchJe2Z0 ^

Posted on 12/22/2012 6:19:52 AM PST by wintertime

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBSgchJe2Z0

At about 2:20 in the video, Mr. Round begins listing what is occurring in his government school. He states that only 4 or 5 of the children in his class were able to consistently endure this treatment. Please think about this.

Question: What would happen if parents treated children this way in the home?

Question: What would OSHA officials have to say if employers treated their adult employees this way?

Answer: It would be called what it is: Abuse!

Where are all the "good" teachers standing up and protesting this? Where are the mass resignations? Where are these so-called "good" teachers that nearly everyone claims to know?

My conclusion: These children have been abandoned and left to endure abuse. Unlike an adult, children have no means to change their situation.

My conclusion: A" good" government teacher is about as rare as the Hope Diamond. The rest are enablers and some are outright evil.

(Excerpt) Read more at youtube.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: sourcetitlenoturl
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Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBSgchJe2Z0
1 posted on 12/22/2012 6:19:55 AM PST by wintertime
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To: metmom
Absolutely another reason to homeschool.

When my children were the age of second graders, they rarely spent more than an hour in formal homeschooling. The rest of the time they spent playing or on “real world” field trips with me and my husband as we went about living our “real world” lives.

The children Mr. Round was teaching spend 6 to 7 hours doing what it took my children one hour, and many of these children still must endure a confining school bus ride to and from school. Then to rub even more salt into the wound, they are given “homework” ( which is where they get their real education with their parents help.)

2 posted on 12/22/2012 6:25:40 AM PST by wintertime
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To: wintertime
Where are all the "good" teachers ...

The amazing teachers of the 60's and 70's - women who got into teaching because they were kept out corporate boardroom - are retired. They've been replace by Union types ... people who in a different economy would be selling shoes in some department store...

3 posted on 12/22/2012 6:32:35 AM PST by GOPJ (Detroit should be renamed 'Michael Mooresville'...)
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To: wintertime

Actually I personally would have been a lot happier if the NRA had encouraged people to pull their kids out of public schools rather than pimping a big government solution yesterday.


4 posted on 12/22/2012 6:34:34 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: wintertime
Susan Follett Lusi, Superintendent of Providence Schools
5 posted on 12/22/2012 6:40:58 AM PST by Raycpa
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To: wintertime
If I may:

Homework - where the children might get their real education with  if their parents help.

6 posted on 12/22/2012 6:45:55 AM PST by Bob
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To: Bob

We didn’t have it in the 80s but I think I would have benefited greatly from online schooling. It ain’t for lazy students or parents but I’m seeing good results in my niece.

There’s a reason there’s a waiting list in Michigan and there’s a reason the department of education hates it.


7 posted on 12/22/2012 6:52:00 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: GOPJ
Perhaps I can persuade you to think differently.

What were the teachers of the 60s and 70s doing?

Answer: They were **willingly** supporting, upholding, and establishing a socialist-funded, single-payer, godlessly secular, compulsory-use entitlement.

What did children risk learning in these socialist-entitlment schools?

1) The children learned to think and reason godlessly in their secular classes. They had to just to cooperate in their godlessly secular classrooms.

2) The children risked learning that any voting mob powerful enough to give them socialist-funded and single-payer schooling could give them **lots** of “free” stuff and they risked learning to be comfortable with the government threat of force to compel them to use it.

Modern government schooling was an evil idea from the beginning in the mid-1800s. It is built upon a foundation of socialist-funding and compulsion. It has never been more than generically Protestant in its lukewarm religious worldview. By my grandmother's day ( born 1894) government schooling was merely nodding to God on occasion and by the 60s was utterly godless.

**Good** teachers would never cooperate with this evil. They would shun it.

8 posted on 12/22/2012 6:52:18 AM PST by wintertime
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To: Bob

Good point.


9 posted on 12/22/2012 6:53:12 AM PST by wintertime
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To: wintertime
You nailed it!

We home schooled for about 10 years before my wife died of cancer.

The most eye-opening fact is the amount of time that is NOT NEEDED for a child to actually learn something.

I left for work earlier than school, so I never saw the start of a school day, but my wife said they started around 9 and was don by by 12 or so.

The rest of the time was ALSO in school .. shopping trips,f'rinstance, became combined geography and math class with some science thrown in to describe lake effect (all legal and accepted in Pennsylvania's school system .. which still checks out HS to a degree)

Keep a record and a log of times spent in conversation about anything you discuss or just tell a child and it is considered 'education'

10 posted on 12/22/2012 6:53:42 AM PST by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: wintertime

Good luck sorting out who’s culpable to what degree: educrats enforcing the rules and doing their part in the system, so they can get their secure salaries and bennies; officials elected and unelected who encrust the system with more regulations every year; voters who put them there and continue to elect profligate officials; citizens who pay their taxes to make it all possible, because to resist would have financial and legal repercussions too terrible to consider seriously; citizens who put their children in these puppy mills, rather than go to the unprofitable bother of homeschooling. (Got to churn out that extra income, kiddies — see ya!)

Yes, the educrats are contemptible, but the buck doesn’t stop there. Anybody in the game, in any position, would do well to look in the mirror — and maybe then they’ll think about getting out.


11 posted on 12/22/2012 7:03:08 AM PST by HomeAtLast ( If you care to reply, PM or risk non-detection amid ME ping list entries)
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To: wintertime

The most important thing I teach my children is that they are responsible for their own learning. It is not a job they can delegate to teachers or parents. If they want to learn then they must self advocate for the resources they need. A bad teacher or a bad system is no excuse.

The second most important thing is that schools, colleges and universities are not designed to measure learning or to encourage learning. They are merely there as bench marks created by society. The goal is to get good grades, not because they learn more, but because they need them ultimately for a job.


12 posted on 12/22/2012 7:07:37 AM PST by Raycpa
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To: wintertime
Perhaps I can persuade you to think differently.

What were the teachers of the 60s and 70s doing?

Answer: They were **willingly** supporting, upholding, and establishing a socialist-funded, single-payer, godlessly secular, compulsory-use entitlement.

Amen.

I graduated high school in 1977, and I can tell you I had just as many hippy-dippy teachers then as there are now. Back then they were spouting crap about evil corporations polluting our rivers and streams, leading to the first Earth Day in 1970.

We were taught that the Earth couldn't support the coming population explosion, and did exercises that showed that even if we "discovered" another earth, geometric progression would only extend the inevitable for a very short time before we ran out of oil, food, and potable water.

And we were taught how FDR saved our country after the evil capitalist crash of 1929 with his public works programs such as the CCC and WPA.

Yeah, the liberal agenda was always in the public schools, if the details of what was being taught changed.

13 posted on 12/22/2012 7:23:16 AM PST by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: cripplecreek

Those were my thoughts too.


14 posted on 12/22/2012 7:26:34 AM PST by paint_your_wagon
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To: wintertime; mgist; raptor22; victim soul; Isabel2010; Smokin' Joe; Michigander222; PJBankard; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

15 posted on 12/22/2012 7:28:36 AM PST by narses
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To: wintertime; mgist; raptor22; victim soul; Isabel2010; Smokin' Joe; Michigander222; PJBankard; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

16 posted on 12/22/2012 7:29:04 AM PST by narses
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To: wintertime; mgist; raptor22; victim soul; Isabel2010; Smokin' Joe; Michigander222; PJBankard; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

17 posted on 12/22/2012 7:30:03 AM PST by narses
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To: HomeAtLast

That’s why it is called the education-industrial complex. It’s about jobs, not about educating children.


18 posted on 12/22/2012 7:53:16 AM PST by wintertime
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To: Yo-Yo
This is exactly what I was taught in the two years I spent in government school and I graduated in **1964**!

Oh! And....Let's not forget the emphasis on mock U.N gatherings.

They were pushing the envelope then, and my bet is that the government schools always were.

Fundamentally, modern government schooling ( since mid-1850s) was, and is now, a socialist, single-payer, compulsory-use monopoly and price-fixed cartel. NOTHING good can come from that.

19 posted on 12/22/2012 7:59:05 AM PST by wintertime
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To: wintertime; metmom

Yup, you don’t need a full school day to teach children!

We homeschool about 2 hrs a day. Our daughter is only 5 and can read at about a 2nd grade level; same with math. Right now, as I type, she’s on the other computer learning to read sheet music—on her own!

It’s quite apparent to us homeschoolers that public schools are nothing more than a mass indoctrination centers for “citizens.”

Cheers!

P.S. - Ditto: Ping worthy post, Metmom.


20 posted on 12/22/2012 8:12:30 AM PST by DoctorBulldog (Obama sucks. End of story.)
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To: DoctorBulldog; wintertime; metmom

Erratum:

“nothing more than a mass indoctrination centers” should be, “nothing more than mass indoctrination centers”

(Curse my lack of coffee, this morning!)

:)

Cheers!


21 posted on 12/22/2012 8:15:40 AM PST by DoctorBulldog (Obama sucks. End of story.)
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To: wintertime

This is why kids aren’t learning. Instead of teaching kids to write in a logical, coherent manner, they are having them write on giant thought bubbles about their reading assignments. This is designed for middle school. To me, this is mis-education. I would like some feedback from parents on this reading activity.

From the post:
“Thought Bubbles - Metacognition Manipulative: This would be great to laminate and then kids could write on it before / during / after reading.”

http://www.ateacherstreasure.com/2011/10/treasured-tip-reading-is-thinking.html


22 posted on 12/22/2012 8:38:50 AM PST by FrdmLvr (culture, language, borders)
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To: FrdmLvr
Ben Franklin employed the classical method (extensive study of superior writing samples and imitation of same) to develop his writing skills.

His writing is what helped pass on his legacy as a founding father. It’s what made him one of the most persuasive diplomats in US history. And it’s one of the main reasons we remember so much of what he did today.

http://copywritersroundtable.com/2008/10/14/how-ben-franklin-learned-to-write/

23 posted on 12/22/2012 9:15:38 AM PST by BlatherNaut
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To: FrdmLvr
I went to the link you posted. Teachers want to be taken seriously as professionals? Really? Here are some of my thoughts regarding the site:

1) In my profession the background would never be pink with little stars.

2) The word “cute” would never be found in more than 150 years of journals in my profession.

3) How is it possible to **read** in an undistributed manner in a **groups**? I'd like to see how that is done.

24 posted on 12/22/2012 9:25:59 AM PST by wintertime
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To: BlatherNaut

My children went through “Institute for Excellence in Writing” orr EIW. Fabulous program to teach writing skills.


25 posted on 12/22/2012 9:57:29 AM PST by happyhomemaker (Rejoice in hope, be patient in tribulation, be constant in prayer. Rom 12:12)
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To: knarf; 2Jedismom; 6amgelsmama; AAABEST; aberaussie; AccountantMom; Aggie Mama; agrace; ...
I left for work earlier than school, so I never saw the start of a school day, but my wife said they started around 9 and was don by by 12 or so.

Likewise for us. A couple hours were all that was needed to actually do the academics.

I've had teachers tell me that on a good day, 50% of the classroom time is wasted time, discipline, lining kids up, getting ready for the lesson, sharpening pencils, getting kids focused, etc. On a bad day, 90% is wasted time, only 10% is on actual learning.

So, homeschoolers are likely actually spending the same amount of time in actual instruction, but the kids aren't being forced to endure all the down time the other kids cause.

26 posted on 12/22/2012 9:59:38 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom

“A couple hours were all that was needed to actually do the academics.”

This is true for us, too. We supplement with other activities. Every Tuesday my wife and daughters spend a few hours at our local soup kitchen making and serving lunch, for example. The older folks and especially the Veterans love my daughters.


27 posted on 12/22/2012 10:33:52 AM PST by APatientMan (Pick a side)
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To: wintertime
When my children were the age of second graders, they rarely spent more than an hour in formal homeschooling. The rest of the time they spent playing or on “real world” field trips with me and my husband as we went about living our “real world” lives.

ROFLOL

So the story changes again. This is version what 7-8 now. First you took one child out when he was in high school after he got his butt kicked for making racist remarks. Then you took them out at various ages. Next I think you said that you had them in and out as was convenient for you to do your gallivanting around the world. Please pick one version (preferably the truth) and stick with it.

28 posted on 12/22/2012 10:45:43 AM PST by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: cripplecreek
would have been a lot happier if the NRA had encouraged people to pull their kids out of public schools

Very much agree. A mass exodus of students from public schools will cut their per-pupil funding. Public schools will never have an incentive to improve until they have to compete for education dollars against private schools and homeschooling.

Public schooling passed the point of diminishing returns about fifty years ago, wherein every additional dollar of investment causes more harm than good. The only way to improve public education is to cut funding 100% and force them to compete with other educational options (at the parents' discretion).

29 posted on 12/22/2012 10:47:25 AM PST by meadsjn
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To: verga

I politely request that for the remainder of this thread that you do not ping or post private mail to me. You have my permission to comment in any way you wish about my comments and use my name, but please do not ping or send private mail to me.

Very politely and respectfully,

Wintertime


30 posted on 12/22/2012 11:03:01 AM PST by wintertime
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To: APatientMan
Indeed, only a couple of hours is necessary. At the age of 7 or se ( the age of the 2nd graders in the video) my children rarely spent more than an hour in formal homeschooling.
31 posted on 12/22/2012 11:05:30 AM PST by wintertime
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To: wintertime
I politely request that for the remainder of this thread that you do not ping or post private mail to me.

If you would tell the truth it would not be necessary to ping you now would it.

32 posted on 12/22/2012 11:09:02 AM PST by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: verga

I politely request that for the remainder of this thread that you do not ping or post private mail to me. You have my permission to comment in any way you wish about my comments and use my name, but please do not ping or send private mail to me.

Very politely and respectfully,

Wintertime


33 posted on 12/22/2012 11:16:40 AM PST by wintertime
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To: verga; wintertime

Get over wintertime.

Quit stalking her from thread to thread.


34 posted on 12/22/2012 11:33:06 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom
Quit stalking her from thread to thread. He and I are both interested in the same topics.
35 posted on 12/22/2012 11:57:30 AM PST by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: meadsjn
Public schools will never have an incentive to improve .......
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

There are qualities to government schooling that can not be improved because the are fundamental to the system.

Government schools are a socialist-funded, single payer, godless, price-fixed monopoly cartel! This can not be fixed it must be abolished.

Also....Since all schools, just to maintain order and safety, must strictly control speech, press, assembly, and expression of religion. When government does this the children risk learning to be comfortable with government restricting their First Amendment Rights.

And...NO school can be religiously, politically, or culturally neutral. It is impossible. Therefore, when government owns and runs schools they will promote the politics, cultural, and religion of the most politically powerful ( today that is atheistic cultural Marxism).

The only solution is to begin the process of privatization.

36 posted on 12/22/2012 12:28:41 PM PST by wintertime
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To: wintertime

Thank you. I couldn’t agree with you more.


37 posted on 12/22/2012 2:36:52 PM PST by FrdmLvr (culture, language, borders)
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To: wintertime

Thank you. I couldn’t agree with you more.


38 posted on 12/22/2012 2:36:58 PM PST by FrdmLvr (culture, language, borders)
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To: wintertime

Heart braking. I am coming to hate my nation. I never thought those words could possibly be ripped from my mouth under torture. Now I find myself freely saying it. I hate my nation. This is not the nation of my birth or of my heritage.

I hope those who caused it and continue to destroy my nation, Burn in Hell.


39 posted on 12/22/2012 2:58:59 PM PST by Freedom_Is_Not_Free (Free goodies for all -- Freedom for none.)
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To: GOPJ

Women became teacher because they were kept out of the corporate boardroom? Let me guess, you think Betty Friedan is anti-feminist?


40 posted on 12/22/2012 3:37:34 PM PST by nickcarraway
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To: wintertime; Yo-Yo; GOPJ
Precisely where in this broad and non-homogenous country did you and your grandmother attend school?

Methinks that you and the up-down kid paint with far too broad a brush...

41 posted on 12/22/2012 3:58:59 PM PST by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias... "Barack": Allah's current ally...)
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To: TXnMA
It was Philadelphia.

There was a huge difference between the secular government education that my grandmother, father, and my cousins received as compared to the Catholic education that was enjoyed by my mother, me, and my siblings.

For example, in Catholic school we said a prayer every hour as we changed subjects. If a police or fire alarm was heard, the class instruction stopped and we prayed for the safety of all involved. The feast days of saints were observed and an especially important one was the feast day of the saint for whom our school was named. An entire half hour every day was dedicated to learning the Baltimore Catechism which we memorized. We received instruction for our First Holy Communion and Confirmation. Of course, there was the yearly May Day celebration in honor of the Blessed Mary. During Lent, every Friday, there were the Stations of the Cross. Ash Wednesday was an important day with a special Mass. Christmas was entirely Christ-centered. In the upper left hand corner of every paper we wrote were the initials J.M.J. to remind us of Jesus, Mary, and Joseph.

As we grew older the teaching of the Saints and church leaders were incorporated into our history and literature classes. We were reminded during science and math classes that these subjects reflected the glory of God's creation. We were taught to pray for God's guidance in seeking the best use of our talents ( for His glory, of course.) In high school, every spring there was an entire week set aside for a retreat filled with prayer, daily Mass, and speakers from the Arch Diocease.

Do you get the idea? This is the difference between a truly Christ-centered education ( specifically Catholic) and the puny amount of lukewarm and generic Protestantism nodded to on occasion in the government schools my cousins, father and grandmother attended.

My last two years of high school were in government school. Yes, there was the Lord's Prayer and short scripture in the morning but from then on it was a non-stop secular and godless worldview. Wow! What a difference!

What is the risk to children who attend government schools that force upon the students a lukewarm and generic Protestantism? Answer: They risk learning to be lukewarm and generic about their faith.

What does Christ do with the lukewarm? Answer: He spits them out of His mouth!

42 posted on 12/22/2012 4:24:11 PM PST by wintertime
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To: Freedom_Is_Not_Free

I hope those who caused it and continue to destroy my nation, Burn in Hell.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Well...The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Personally, I believe that most government teachers and administrators do have good intentions. There is a term for these people: Useful Idiots.


43 posted on 12/22/2012 4:30:14 PM PST by wintertime
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To: wintertime

I feel bad for this teacher. His school system sounds horrible. Nothing at all like our school system.

I thought our kids had it bad until I listened to his resignation. I keep forgetting how remarkable my county is when it comes to public schools.


44 posted on 12/22/2012 5:20:04 PM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: CharlesWayneCT
I keep forgetting how remarkable my county is when it comes to public schools.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Your county's government schools are godlessly secular. The children who attend these godless government schools **must** think and reason godlessly just to cooperate in the classroom.

It is impossible to have a religiously neutral education and government schools across this nation have **never** been religiously neutral. Your county's government schools are force-feeding a non-neutral religious worldview on their children and the taxpayers are under a terrible threat of loss of their homes and businesses and prison if they refuse to pay for this anointed government school sponsored religious worldview.

Your county's government schools are just as much of a single-payer, monopolistic, price-fixed cartel, compulsory, and socialist entitlement as any other county's schools. Children who attend risk learning to be comfortable with taking money from their neighbor for tuition-free schooling. Gee! If the voting mob can give them “free” school, why not use that power to get lots of “free” stuff.

Government schools trash every First Amendment Right. They, like all schools, must to maintain order and safety. However...When government does this to children they risk learning to be comfortable with government compulsion and the trashing by government of their First Amendment and God-given human rights.

And...That's just for starters and your county's government indoctrination camps.

45 posted on 12/22/2012 6:10:55 PM PST by wintertime
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To: wintertime
Silly me! I had forgotten that I was in a benighted part of the country which lacked folks who believe that any religion that doesn't own its own country is "secular" and which doesn't slather its holy places with gold and genuflect to paintings is "godless", or, at best "lukewarm".

That's a real conversation stopper -- even if our public schools have prayers and our school board is 100% composed of Deacons...

Fin.

46 posted on 12/22/2012 6:41:13 PM PST by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias... "Barack": Allah's current ally...)
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To: TXnMA
The **point** is that there is a HUGE difference between a truly religiously and denominationally centered education in a school sponsored by that specific denomination than anything any government school has ever offered its students.

In its very best years, government schooling was never more than generically and lukewarmly Protestant. Forcing feeding children a lukewarm pap is not what the scriptures recommend. Today, government schooling is godless in its worldview.

47 posted on 12/22/2012 7:05:46 PM PST by wintertime
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To: wintertime; verga
Hmmm.

Having no idea whether any of verga's claims about your posting history were true, I was confused at the animus displayed and how uncivil it seemed to be.

Now at least I understand.

Rather than try to discuss my children's religion, and since your claim encompasses the entire history of public schools in our country, I can answer your post with my own experience.

I should note that the concept of "free" schooling is almost as old as our country. Jefferson pushed it, and throughout our history our communities have included public education, from the one-room "schoolhouse" where you were as likely to hear a sermon as a math lesson, to the modern edifices where religion is more of an underground thing.

I made it through 12 years of public education without ever having to sacrifice or compromise my religious principles or liberty. We had a prayer club which met regularly. Our English class took a field trip to a Presbyterian church service (we also had a wiccan speak in our class). We sung christian songs in our christmas performance.

Yes, I had to provide the "correct" answers to questions about evolution. On the other hand, I was free to answer the way I wanted, so long as I also let the teacher know I knew what the "official" answer was. I even wrote papers about creation, about salvation, and about other religious topics.

I got to mock buddism in a poem about Sidhartha. I got to witness to teachers, to pass out leaflets.

We had Young Life. We had Youth for Christ.

I belonged to a church singing group that did folk-rock operas like "It's Getting Late for the Great Planet Earth". We were allowed to perform IN the schools.

Yes, it is clearly different now then when I was in school. But you insisted that it was the same when I was in school as today. You insisted I had no idea what I was talking about.

Anyway, if you bothered to watch the video that you posted for this article, you'd know it had nothing to do with religion. I commented on the things brought up by the video.

In my county's schools, teachers are encouraged to do things. The schools do multiple field trips -- my children have been to Washington DC, to the Holocaust Museum, a German Restaurant, the Space Museum, and the Federal Reserve in Philadelphia. Other classes went to a theme park to learn physics. Elementary schools did the Baltimore Aqaurium, and various art museums were involved. That contrasts with the video's complaint that no field trips were allowed.

In our county, they have specialty schools, and kids can choose what they want to focus on, and go to those schools -- art, language, math.. my kids did biotechnology, and my daughter got to do a field trip to an FBI office to learn about serial killers.

They encourage teachers to do special things; we fight against teaching to the test, our kids don't eat in class, they get reasonable recess, and are allowed to have fun in class.

So rant about the religious stuff, but realize that it is completely unrelated to the subject of the thread you posted. I guess you can hijack your own thread all you want, but don't attack me personally for a reasoned opinion relative to the actual thread content, simply because you have an agenda about religion in the public schools.

48 posted on 12/22/2012 7:13:58 PM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Mears

bfl


49 posted on 12/22/2012 7:26:24 PM PST by Mears
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To: wintertime

“Chief Academic Officer”.

Straight out of the communist handbook.

We are so socialist. My nation is doomed.


50 posted on 12/22/2012 8:26:09 PM PST by Freedom_Is_Not_Free (Free goodies for all -- Freedom for none.)
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