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Arizona Attorney General proposes arming school employees
Fox News ^ | December 27, 2012 | FoxNews

Posted on 12/27/2012 12:32:13 PM PST by Ron C.

Arizona's Attorney General has proposed a program to train one person at each school in the state to use a firearm in an effort to minimize the risk of a repetition of the massacre in Newtown, Connecticut.

Tom Horne introduced a proposal Wednesday that would allow a school principal or designated staff member to have access to a secured firearm on school grounds and receive training in the use of firearms and emergency management.

The attorney general said in a press release that at least three Arizona sheriffs have endorsed the proposal and other sheriffs are considering participating in the program.

Horne said the state's budget constraints resulted in the legislature reducing funding for school resource officers assigned to schools throughout the state. The ideal situation, he said, would be to have an armed officer in each school.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist; guns; schools
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I disagree with the AZ Atty Gen - why train only one - train as many as want to be!

From the article, it appears that only Utah has it right... arm school teachers, and any other school employee that wants to be able to defend themselves and their students.

Last paragraph of the article:

Currently, only Utah and Kansas allow people with concealed weapons permits to carry guns in schools. In the wake of the Connecticut shootings, more than 200 teachers in Utah signed up for free concealed-weapons training being offered Thursday by the Utah Shooting Sports Council.

1 posted on 12/27/2012 12:32:18 PM PST by Ron C.
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To: Ron C.

I agree RonC. The emphasis should be on ‘those who want to carry’. Some folks aren’t up to it, and I think we should allow for that.

IMO, if even five to ten teachers sign on to carry per school, a warning at the front door goes a hell of a long way. And what’s more, I wouldn’t need compensation to get me to do this. I would think of it as my duty.

“Our staff is armed, trained, and determined to use lethal force in defense of our students!”

“If you walk into our school armed with intent to cause harm or mayhem, you will not walk out, and we will possess your gun when you are scraped up and carried off.”


2 posted on 12/27/2012 12:44:06 PM PST by DoughtyOne (How about a waiting period for putting crazies out on the streets, say a million years or so.)
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To: Ron C.

Makes perfect sense. If they have no problem arming commercial pilots to protect the plane, they should be greatful to those willing to be armed to protect the school.


3 posted on 12/27/2012 12:52:25 PM PST by excalibur21
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: DoughtyOne
Allow the parents who are trained to come on campus armed. End the death cages that ban all weapons. Particularly the schools located in Sierra Vista/Huachuca City/Tombstone/Bisbee/Benson/Palominas/Wilcox because of the heavy active military/retired military concentration
5 posted on 12/27/2012 12:55:10 PM PST by SandRat (Duty - Honor - Country! What else needs said?)
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To: Ron C.

I disagree as well. Call forth the militia! There are thousands of veterans trained to arms and regulated to the degree they could be called upon today. Thousands of retired veterans of foreign wars with a strong desire to contribute by volunteering their time to the continued well being of their nation and its’ people. Retired police officers who would be more than willing to play a active role in securing all manner of facilities. There only remains the effort necessary to establish the watch lists and remove the bureaucrats and liberals from barring the way.

But this effort on the Attorney General’s part is as ‘a foot in the door’ to begin the dialogue and in that respect I agree with him.


6 posted on 12/27/2012 12:58:12 PM PST by chulaivn66 (Semper Fidelis in Extremis)
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To: Ron C.

There are a lot of unhinged teachers at the local high schools. I am not sure I would want some of them armed. Really. But I am ok with there being armed personnel as long as they have a thorough background check including psychological screening.


7 posted on 12/27/2012 1:02:24 PM PST by petitfour
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To: Ron C.
I disagree with the AZ Atty Gen - why train only one - train as many as want to be!

I agree, as long as they are trained not to get into a cross-fire themselves.

8 posted on 12/27/2012 1:09:01 PM PST by Rapscallion ( Even as the majority party, the stupid do not know how dumb they are.)
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To: Ron C.
..my wife works with teachers who are a couple of bricks shy of load. The California educational system has some real loo loos at the administrative and teaching levels.

IMHO trained School Marshalls or special Sheriff deputies are the only answer...

9 posted on 12/27/2012 1:13:52 PM PST by WalterSkinner ( In Memory of My Father--WWII Vet and Patriot 1926-2007)
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To: DoughtyOne
"those who want to carry"

Agree with that! Those who want to will be willing to spend time perfecting their skills with a gun.

Several of my teachers 'carried' and two taught marksmanship at the local gun range - both of those guys were VERY good.

10 posted on 12/27/2012 1:14:54 PM PST by Ron C.
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To: SandRat

Sounds good to me.

I would even include long term members of a community, that were agreeable to take the courses to qualify for conceal carry.

This being said, I do think the folks making up the conceal carry team on a given school property, should meet regularly, and be able to vet their members.

For the most part I doubt there would be a problem, but there always seems to be that one person out there who is a social misfit and can’t get along with anyone. There would need to be a mechanism to get that person off the team.


11 posted on 12/27/2012 1:17:43 PM PST by DoughtyOne (How about a waiting period for putting crazies out on the streets, say a million years or so.)
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To: DoughtyOne

Where I live all of the High Schools have a deputy sherriff assigned to them, and some of the Middle schools do.

They were assigned there to deaL with unruly students and protact the teachers really, but they are there.


12 posted on 12/27/2012 1:21:09 PM PST by Venturer
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To: WalterSkinner

I appreciate where you are coming from, but I’d like to keep this from adding more paid staff positions that could form a union and become a major pain in the ass. I also don’t want to see our education system burdened further by top salaries for positions that can easily be filled by volunteers.

A self vetting association of volunteers would fill the bill nicely IMO.


13 posted on 12/27/2012 1:21:50 PM PST by DoughtyOne (How about a waiting period for putting crazies out on the streets, say a million years or so.)
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To: Ron C.

Sound great RonC. That’s exactly what I’d like to see this turn out to be.


14 posted on 12/27/2012 1:22:58 PM PST by DoughtyOne (How about a waiting period for putting crazies out on the streets, say a million years or so.)
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To: excalibur21
"no problem arming commercial pilots"

Yes - and I think stewards / stewardess should all be allowed to concealed-carry (again, if they want to.)

Armed pilots aren't much of a deterrent, as they're locked up in the front of the plane now-days. But, I'd feel a lot safer on a plane if there was a 'armed guards present' sign posted.

15 posted on 12/27/2012 1:24:15 PM PST by Ron C.
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To: Venturer

Okay, I have no problem with that. What I would say is that this person could be the go to guy, when setting up a concealed carry team for the school campus.

Working in close association with a volunteer force, this guy could keep tabs on things in a manner that would serve the school well.

He could train them, verse them in what methods to use, and how to alert the crew when there is an incident in progress.


16 posted on 12/27/2012 1:27:07 PM PST by DoughtyOne (How about a waiting period for putting crazies out on the streets, say a million years or so.)
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To: chulaivn66
LOL - very good ideas!

The best - "remove the bureaucrats and liberals from barring the way."

The only way to fight creeps with guns is with lots of guns arrayed against them - handled by trained sharpshooters.

Several of my grade-school teachers WERE just that - they all practiced at the local range, and the local paper covered that fact rather frequently. But - that was back in 1947.

17 posted on 12/27/2012 1:30:43 PM PST by Ron C.
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To: Ron C.
All of the high schools in our district have an armed SRO and have had one for several years.

I know of many fellow teachers who would prefer to be armed.

18 posted on 12/27/2012 1:31:48 PM PST by pfflier
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To: WalterSkinner
..my wife works with teachers who are a couple of bricks shy of load.

Thinking back on my HS days (1970-73), I can remember one Biology teacher that certainly fit that description. He was one of my customers on my paper route, too -- hated going to collect there. He'd probably qualify for the Asperger's label today.

19 posted on 12/27/2012 1:33:33 PM PST by T-Bird45 (It feels like the seventies, and it shouldn't.)
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To: chulaivn66
"‘a foot in the door’ to begin the dialogue"

Yes, its a step in the right direction. I just hope it pays off with much more down the road in schools in every city, town, etc.

20 posted on 12/27/2012 1:34:00 PM PST by Ron C.
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To: petitfour
"a lot of unhinged teachers"

Yes indeed. The teachers of today aren't anywhere near the quality of those I grew up with. "Thorough background check including psychological screening" should be included in places like Los Angeles, that is certain! LOL

21 posted on 12/27/2012 1:37:22 PM PST by Ron C.
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To: Ron C.

Absolutely agree that more than one should be trained as well as dropping the “criminal empowerment zone” around schools. That way, any time a parent drops by there is no need to disarm or park off-property and they become another “sheepdog” that an evil perp cannot account for in his nefarious plan.


22 posted on 12/27/2012 1:41:08 PM PST by T-Bird45 (It feels like the seventies, and it shouldn't.)
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To: DoughtyOne

Hey Rube used to work for the Carnies.


23 posted on 12/27/2012 1:42:50 PM PST by Venturer
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To: WalterSkinner
"School Marshalls or special Sheriff deputies"

The price of that stops it in most city budgets these days - and the liberals cry for total disarming of the public (a stupid idea that will never happen.)

And, yes, I know several teachers who are indeed 'a couple of bricks shy of a load' - frightened to death at even the sight of a gun.

So perhaps in some places volunteering retired police, sheriffs, etc. might be a logical alternative, as mentioned above.

24 posted on 12/27/2012 1:44:24 PM PST by Ron C.
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To: Venturer

In this instance, I’m not quite sure who “Rube” is.


25 posted on 12/27/2012 1:46:53 PM PST by DoughtyOne (How about a waiting period for putting crazies out on the streets, say a million years or so.)
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To: Ron C.

In all seriousness there is no need to ‘call out the militia’ in the proper use of the phrase. The ranks of the staff at schools are already populated by knowledgable firearms owners and hunters who are well aware of what they are about and prepared to act in defense of their charges. Overcoming the mindset prevalent in the educational system to afford the presence of defensive arms will be the major hurdle to jump for thinking people. The ‘gun shy’ will be the end of us all if their opinions and ungrounded fears hold sway.

I open carry ninety-nine percent of the time for the express purpose of innoculating as many people as I am able to the disease of hoplophobia. Truly, to know me is to love me.

Cheers.


26 posted on 12/27/2012 1:49:08 PM PST by chulaivn66 (Semper Fidelis in Extremis)
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To: pfflier
"I know of many fellow teachers who would prefer to be armed."

Proper training should allow that - let's just hope that it happens. The pressure is on right now, so maybe it will.

27 posted on 12/27/2012 1:50:52 PM PST by Ron C.
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To: Ron C.
"Secured Firearm" ????? The way the nutjob in CT came in and the way he was armed still would have resulted in many dead before some teacher was able to run to the Principals office and open any gun safe.

Any Teachers qualified to carry should be carrying.

Another good idea would be to have good steel doors with bullet proof glass on the classrooms.

28 posted on 12/27/2012 2:13:02 PM PST by HP8753 (Live Free!!!! .............or don't.)
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To: chulaivn66
hoplophobia - I had forgotten that term. Fear of tools, guns, weapons in general - here's a link to the root hoplon
29 posted on 12/27/2012 2:18:10 PM PST by Ron C.
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To: HP8753
Agree completely! A 'secured firearm' is useless.

The only way he could have been stopped was if someone armed saw him enter - and fired first. But, in that and most other schools there is currently almost no chance of that happening, unfortunately.

Auto-lock-down of all classroom doors and an audible alarm sounding if an outside door is breached might help - for a few moments.

In all practicality, future public knowledge that armed personnel are present in all schools might not even help in some cases. But, just the fact that schools are arming teachers and staff will be a far better deterrent than we've had in most places.

30 posted on 12/27/2012 2:36:41 PM PST by Ron C.
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To: petitfour
There are a lot of unhinged teachers at the local high schools.

Interesting. I was talking to a teacher I know, and he said the same thing.

I suspect that how this will ultimately play out is that the states that arm their teachers will experience few or no attacks. That will lead liberals, using their fun house mirror logic, to say "See - arming teachers didn't work. There haven't been any attacks. We don't need armed teachers."

31 posted on 12/27/2012 2:39:39 PM PST by Hardastarboard (Bringing children to America without immigration documents is child abuse. Let's end it.)
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To: DoughtyOne

..you’re right on the union thing Doughty


32 posted on 12/27/2012 3:00:38 PM PST by WalterSkinner ( In Memory of My Father--WWII Vet and Patriot 1926-2007)
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To: DoughtyOne

I agree. At the start of each year the each individual in the team should be introduced, in person, to the parents and to the kids as well.


33 posted on 12/27/2012 3:08:43 PM PST by SandRat (Duty - Honor - Country! What else needs said?)
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To: Ron C.
Most are already trained by association, being former police officers, some are active deputy sherriffs and some are veterans. They already know the fundamentals of firearms safety and operation.

Training for them is very simple, understanding the ROEs in a school environment. They could be deployed within days.

34 posted on 12/27/2012 3:14:07 PM PST by pfflier
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To: Ron C.

I would take this a step beyond that. Not only should teachers and administrators be permitted arms on the job, but schools should hire *disabled veterans* as security officers.

The reason I believe this is the way to go is because it was done back in the late 1970s. A high school had student cliques that were showing signs of racial animosity, so the principal hired a disabled Vietnam Veteran (hearing aids) to keep the peace.

This quickly ended the student clique problem, but then it turned out the security guy was soon intercepting adults who were coming onto the open campus to make trouble—a previously unknown problem.

Within a few years, he had an additional three disabled veterans working for him, though he was the only one armed. And they kept very busy stopping all kinds of mischief, at sporting events, preventing car break ins and bicycle thefts in the parking lot, and pinpointing any illegal drug use. And students quickly learned “no fighting” on school property, because these four men did not mess around.

Last but not least as decorated combat vets, they were naturals as role models.


35 posted on 12/27/2012 4:33:35 PM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy (Pennies and Nickels will NO LONGER be Minted as of 1/1/13 - Tim Geithner, US Treasury Sect)
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To: WalterSkinner

Thanks WalterSkinner.


36 posted on 12/27/2012 4:56:55 PM PST by DoughtyOne (How about a waiting period for putting crazies out on the streets, say a million years or so.)
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To: SandRat

You know, I sympathize with the thoughts behind that view, but I will admit to wondering if it wouldn’t be best to let the students think all teachers were carrying especially in troubled high schools.

Let some of the hard cases wonder...


37 posted on 12/27/2012 4:59:42 PM PST by DoughtyOne (How about a waiting period for putting crazies out on the streets, say a million years or so.)
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To: DoughtyOne

and another added benefit is a the perp wouldn’t know which teacher is armed....as opposed to the uniformed guard at the front door that only serves as the 1st victim and gets the adrenalin flowing for the killer...


38 posted on 12/27/2012 5:37:47 PM PST by M-cubed
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To: Ron C.
From the article, it appears that only Utah has it right... arm school teachers, and any other school employee that wants to be able to defend themselves and their students.

That is correct. The training would do a lot to drive a wedge in the teachers' minds between the lies they've been told and the truth as they are trained, making them better teachers.

Now, to get it REALLY right, the school districts should put a premium on hiring teachers with military combat experience.

39 posted on 12/27/2012 8:39:06 PM PST by Carry_Okie (GunWalker: Arming "a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as well funded")
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To: M-cubed
I haven't seen anyone tumble to the real reason the libs oppose guns in school. It totally goes against the narrative that guns are inherently evil.

If kids thought that guns were being used to protect them they might get the idea that they are a force for good and they need one too. Can't have that. They want to raise kids that don't even want to be in the same room with any gun!

40 posted on 12/28/2012 4:10:05 AM PST by cb
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To: M-cubed

I agree.


41 posted on 12/28/2012 8:27:12 AM PST by DoughtyOne (How about a waiting period for putting crazies out on the streets, say a million years or so.)
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To: Ron C.
A good idea except that the vast majority of those limp wrist liberal (educators?) would wet their Depends if shown even a picture of a weapon.
42 posted on 12/28/2012 3:26:31 PM PST by Don Corleone ("Oil the gun..eat the cannoli. Take it to the Mattress.")
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
Thanks for your post (sorry so slow in reading, been way too busy to come to FR of late.)

That's quite a story, and the same could work for many schools, but God help us, school administrations today are mostly led by union goons of the left that do not want what is best for the students at the schools... they just want money, lots of it, with little to nothing required of them.

43 posted on 12/28/2012 7:54:54 PM PST by Ron C.
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To: Carry_Okie
"...to get it REALLY right..."

Yes indeed - hiring military vets, particularly those who continue with their marksmanship, own their guns and use them frequently would be among the best schools could hire!!

44 posted on 12/28/2012 8:01:00 PM PST by Ron C.
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To: Don Corleone

LOL - Tx Don, for the funniest post on the thread! Sad that we have such near-useless liberals dominating education these days.


45 posted on 12/28/2012 8:03:18 PM PST by Ron C.
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To: Ron C.

The most cost effective method for providing school safety would be to provide a few tables and chairs, free Dunkin’ Donuts and coffee to the local police force on staggered coffee breaks.


46 posted on 12/28/2012 8:53:31 PM PST by Enough is ENOUGH
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To: DoughtyOne; All

“Our staff is armed, trained, and determined to use lethal force in defense of our students!”

I would like to add that it should be a written policy within the district that those teachers who are certified and armed while on the job at the school where they work, and functions outside the premises with their students, should be kept extremely confidential, and under penalty of termination, if even a question (or opposition) is raised by any staff member no matter what their opinion, or reason for the inquiry...

Loose lips sink ships...And gets people and kids killed!!!

The reason being is tht unless you understand the culture of teachers today,they are not like what some of us are used to...I know, my wife is one, and some the folks she works with are a bunch of nervous ninnies right now, and it is a vicious, vindictive community with factions (groups) that if even the question is asked who are these armed teachers in their midst, the armed teachers WILL be ostrasized, scrutinized in a very prejudical manner...

I believe the only ones that need to know, are the teachers themselves, and administrators who are armed...So that they do not take shots at one another in a crisis situation...The Principal of the school, and the district administration who keep the names and certifications secret from the rest of the district...

No one (other teachers and administrators) needs to converse, ask, or assume, under penalty of termination, any adult who might be under those parameters of this effort to secure and make these schools a HARD target to even the most deranged idiot who contemplates such an abhorant act...

My wife DOES have a current Texas CHL, and one of her buddies there at the school where she works has asked me to get her up to speed on that certification at the start of this next year...

The state of Texas needs to allow all teachers and school officials who choose to accomplish this task, a no charge permit (CHL) or at least a severely reduced fee to allow this to not be a block to those that want to do this...

I believe Gov. Perry would be amiable to this idea, as he has stated that teachers should be armed while on the clock at their schools...

I believe that if there are teachers opposed to this idea, then they are free to go and work someplace where they believe no one is armed, and continue with their careers...

Just my opinion...


47 posted on 12/29/2012 12:04:23 AM PST by stevie_d_64 (It's not the color of one's skin that offends people...it's how thin it is.)
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To: Ron C.

Things haven’t changed much over many years. Even when administrators weren’t unionized, circumstances conspired to often make them grasping.

In some states, school administrators are still seen as patronage jobs. In others, radicals populate local school boards and seen them as their puppets. States give money to schools based on how many students attend, so principals are discouraged from suspending or expelling students.

If a teacher or a student really fouls up, the principal gets in trouble. Holding back students with bad grades can result in adults in high school with kids, and a 17 year old high school freshman is a disaster in the making. So it is to their benefit to promote them even if illiterate.

Nationwide, there is a perpetual shortage of principals, because it is such an onerous and unrewarding job.


48 posted on 12/29/2012 6:16:43 AM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy (Pennies and Nickels will NO LONGER be Minted as of 1/1/13 - Tim Geithner, US Treasury Sect)
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To: stevie_d_64

I agree with your post, with one reservation.

There are good teachers out there who don’t have the mental makeup to be a good CCW carrier. I’m not convinced they should be fired for it.

That doesn’t mean there isn’t a case to be made against my take on it.

These kids are placed under the care of the school administrators and teachers, who (it could be argued) should be prepared to defend them against attack. That being said, not all parents are armed either when their kids are under their care.

I do firmly believe any teacher that is moved to do so, should carry. I also believe the administrators should urge their teachers who are comfortable doing so, to do so.


49 posted on 12/29/2012 9:19:59 AM PST by DoughtyOne (How about a waiting period for putting crazies out on the streets, say a million years or so.)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
Things sure have changed since I was in grade school. For some dire infraction that I don't remember, I wound up in the principles office, he took out a BIG paddle and I got four or five hard blows on my butt - THAT I remember all to well.

The principle called my foster parents and after I got home, I got another whipping that was far worse. Needless to say, I didn't dare do anything that would land me in that position again.

The main problem with parents today is that they don't support corporal punishment in schools - and their kids aren't disciplined at home. But worse than that school teachers and administrators rarely enforce discipline if at all. Hence, we've raised two generations of hooligans, thieves, robbers, liars and rapists. Sad.

50 posted on 12/29/2012 2:00:37 PM PST by Ron C.
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