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Stigmatizing Gun Owners Makes Civil Debate Impossible
Commentary Magazine ^ | 12/27/12 | Jonathan S. Tobin

Posted on 12/27/2012 8:27:31 PM PST by Nachum

The decision of a newspaper in New York’s Westchester County to publish an interactive map that allowed readers to discover the names and addresses of owners of legal guns is generally being debated as one about whether the Gannett-owned Journal News showed good judgment. It didn’t, but the problem goes a lot deeper than whether or not a newspaper ought to publicize information that is legally available to the public in this manner. The controversy goes to the heart of the entire discussion about guns in this country. No matter what those behind this stunt say

(Excerpt) Read more at commentarymagazine.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: alinskytactics; banglist; debate; democrats; gun; guncontrol; liberalfascism; owners; secondamendment; stigmatizing
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There is no debate. "They" want war.
1 posted on 12/27/2012 8:27:46 PM PST by Nachum
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To: Nachum

Who do you hear calling for “civil debate”?

The left has no interest in any such thing.

“Never let a crisis go to waste.”

They exploit any situation, using emotional, illogical arguments, to advance their leftist agenda.


2 posted on 12/27/2012 8:32:46 PM PST by G Larry (Which of Obama's policies do you think I'd support if he were white?)
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To: Nachum

You’re right. I got into an online discussion with anti-gunners who see it as a war and they compare themselves to George Washington and us pro-gunners are the British. I just shake my head at that logic, actually, the lack thereof. How in the He** can we argue against those Chuckleheads that think that way. Let’s face it, we are in a cold civil war and unless things change to where they wise up, the only way we will beat them is use force down the line, it will be the only language they will understand. I hate to say it but as other option fall by the wayside, it will be the only option, sadly. They want to push us into a corner. As we know, an animal pushed like that has nothing to lose. As my favorite example, even a day old baby chick will fight nasty if cornered.


3 posted on 12/27/2012 8:33:17 PM PST by Nowhere Man (Whitey, I miss you so much. Take care, pretty girl. (4-15-2001 - 10-12-2012))
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To: Nachum
The conceit of the article is to heighten suspicion of all gun owners and to render them pariahs. That effect is not softened by the fact that the author notes that he has a legally registered pistol.

I realize the overt motive was to stigmatize gun owners. But there is certainly nothing wrong with owning and carrying, it is the free riders who benefit from a polite and armed society who should be stigmatized.

4 posted on 12/27/2012 8:34:25 PM PST by palmer (Obama = Carter + affirmative action)
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To: Nachum

It is the Alinsky way. Ridicule and humiliate your enemies. Make them targets for the unstable. Those in charge of our Gov’t are Alinsky disciples. They have control now, but will not forever. I believe in the power of the free American people. Those who are under the influence of the evil ones are suffering from shaded eyes. They will wake up someday. Hoepfully soon. Then the ‘Won’ and his minions will suffer. Bet on it.


5 posted on 12/27/2012 8:34:45 PM PST by originalbuckeye
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To: Nachum

Making civil debate impossible is the goal. This is 1984 America, this is a time when the information channels are controlled by the enemy.

This is Algore shouting that the debate is over, no more discussion, except now the topic is defense against a tyrannical government.


6 posted on 12/27/2012 8:39:14 PM PST by DBrow
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To: originalbuckeye

Well yes, if the good guys will get with a return to American manufacturing.

Right now we are sending our factories to a massive country with a communist government which opposes our rights.

What is the plan to turn this around?


7 posted on 12/27/2012 8:41:05 PM PST by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: Nachum

Here’s a nightmare version of this:

Say that I have a bleeding heart liberal HR person I have do deal with.

“Mister Hayek, I see here that you have a gun permit. Honestly, I feel uneasy about you working here. I feel threatened by the fact that you own a gun, and so may other people working here. This is a potential hostile work environment, so we are going to have to let you go. Please seek professional help.”

Of course, such termination “with cause” may also be considered extreme defamation of character, but that is part of the Far Left (Stalinist) playbook.


8 posted on 12/27/2012 8:42:18 PM PST by Fred Hayek (The Democratic Party is the operational wing of CPUSA.)
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To: Fred Hayek

Yes. It is the communist-afication of our country. Sad.


9 posted on 12/27/2012 8:48:00 PM PST by Nachum (The List is off the Google blacklist- www.nachumlist.com)
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To: Nachum
I agree, I see no desire for "debate" from the left. All they want to do is screech about the NRA and killing machines.

There is not reasoning or debate with them. They smell blood and are in a feeding frenzy. I would love to say what I feel in the local op-ed pages, but do not want to give anyone ammunition to send DHS or similar my way.

Defying them publicly or telling them you will never submit to their stated goals will probably get unwanted attention.

10 posted on 12/27/2012 8:49:52 PM PST by doorgunner69
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To: Nachum

I think what they have really done is give every petty thief in the area a “road map” of what houses to rob. If you are a thief, do want to enter a home of a gun owner? The non-gun owners should just put a sign on their doors, “Rob me”.


11 posted on 12/27/2012 8:50:40 PM PST by johnd201 (johnd201)
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To: Nachum

I like it. One more reason to use a list of registered Democrat voters as a roll call of traitors...


12 posted on 12/27/2012 8:54:36 PM PST by jonascord (Hurrah for the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a Single Star!)
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To: Nachum

What’s to debate? The second amendment stands, period. “Shall not be infringed.” Get over it libtards, we are not surrendering or rights, our freedoms, nor our firearms.


13 posted on 12/27/2012 8:55:53 PM PST by ThunderSleeps (Stop obama now! Stop the hussein - insane agenda!)
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To: Nachum

The MSM, Obama and the rest of the left are not interested in a debate. Their belief that THEY always know what is best for the rest of us precludes any need for debate on their part.


14 posted on 12/27/2012 9:14:42 PM PST by SECURE AMERICA (Where can I sign up for the American Revolution 2013 and the Crusades 2013?)
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To: Nachum

Fine with me. I’m not interested in talking with them about anything anymore. I wish Boehner felt the same way.


15 posted on 12/27/2012 9:17:52 PM PST by RC one (From My Cold Dead Hands.)
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To: Nowhere Man
George Washington and us pro-gunners are the British.

Ask them do they hold dear our Constitution? Then we will see who is George Washington. And wonder what makes them think the British didn't have guns?

16 posted on 12/27/2012 9:18:59 PM PST by presently no screen name
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To: RC one

I agree. There is nothing to discuss. The Law of the Land has already spoken.


17 posted on 12/27/2012 9:26:09 PM PST by presently no screen name
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To: Nachum

The Left wouldn’t know a “civil debate” if it punched them in the face and raped their dog.


18 posted on 12/27/2012 9:42:47 PM PST by Psycho_Bunny (Thought Puzzle: Describe Islam without using the phrase "mental disorder" more than four times.)
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To: Nachum

gun control
just say NO


19 posted on 12/27/2012 9:46:01 PM PST by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: Psycho_Bunny

That reminds me of a deep thought by Jack Handy that went something like “Marla wouldn’t know love if it ran up and bit her on the ass”.


20 posted on 12/27/2012 9:52:53 PM PST by Yardstick
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To: Nachum
I'll start the "civil debate".

I just picked up another new "shootin' iron" tonight and that's all I'm going to say about that. Gun sales have exploded in my neck of the woods. Thanks Barry! Salesman of the Year!

21 posted on 12/27/2012 9:54:18 PM PST by FlingWingFlyer (U.S. elections have become nothing but another cheap ripoff of American Idol.)
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To: Nowhere Man
I got into an online discussion with anti-gunners who see it as a war and they compare themselves to George Washington and us pro-gunners are the British.

I knew it was a bad idea to stop teaching history in school. The kids are clueless these days. They've got it all bassackwards.

22 posted on 12/27/2012 9:58:48 PM PST by FlingWingFlyer (U.S. elections have become nothing but another cheap ripoff of American Idol.)
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To: Nachum
There is no debate. "They" want war.

Kind of ironic, isn't it?

23 posted on 12/27/2012 10:10:24 PM PST by dr_lew
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To: Nachum

There is no debate. There is an amendment to the constitution stating that the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.


24 posted on 12/27/2012 10:11:16 PM PST by FlyingEagle
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To: Nachum

Debate and discussion are wasted breath, the answer is simply NO!


25 posted on 12/27/2012 10:17:06 PM PST by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
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To: FlingWingFlyer

Here to on the sales. I have a standing order for a new lower every month.


26 posted on 12/27/2012 10:23:33 PM PST by oldenuff2no
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To: oldenuff2no

Heh heh heh. Those morons pulling their investment funds out of gun manufacturing aren’t very bright. However, I do believe that most of that is just lip service so they can come across to their commie lib friends as being “a nice person”.


27 posted on 12/27/2012 10:28:08 PM PST by FlingWingFlyer (U.S. elections have become nothing but another cheap ripoff of American Idol.)
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To: Nachum

You should hear this guy named Mike Adams....he’s on Coast-to-Coast AM right now.

Contrary to popular belief, it’s not all UFO’s, Big Foot, Ghosts, etc. Coast-to-Coast also covers political issues, and the host, George Noory is very pro-second amendment.
He just said it’s not a gun issue at all.....it’s a mental health issue.

This guy on now....Mike Adams.....has a natural foods web site, but he says he also fights for liberty.

Mike Adams says that Facebook is shutting down comments and pages on their web site that are pro-Second Amendment, pro-founding fathers, pro-constitution, etc. Meanwhile, this gentleman said that death threats against NRA officials are allowed to remain on Facebook.

Mike Adams said he thinks the government wants Americans to start shooting one another, so the government can further erode our Second Amendment rights.


28 posted on 12/27/2012 11:00:16 PM PST by july4thfreedomfoundation (November 6, 2012.....A day that will live in infamy!)
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To: Fred Hayek
“Mister Hayek, I see here that you have a gun permit. Honestly, I feel uneasy about you working here. I feel threatened by the fact that you own a gun, and so may other people working here. This is a potential hostile work environment, so we are going to have to let you go. Please seek professional help.”

Of course, such termination “with cause” may also be considered extreme defamation of character, but that is part of the Far Left (Stalinist) playbook.

I certainly see your point; and it is a good/scary one. However, 18 USC 241 & 242 could easily be brought into play in such a case, as you have are specifically being pressured because of using Constitutionally protected rights. (It'd be hard for them to avoid the conspiracy charge, especially if you have the 'potential hostile work environment' cited like that.)

Both of those are felonies; and, honestly, people need to stand up for what's right.

29 posted on 12/27/2012 11:11:37 PM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: july4thfreedomfoundation
Mike Adams said he thinks the government wants Americans to start shooting one another, so the government can further erode our Second Amendment rights.

That's likely the truth, or very close to, especially given that the Mexicans didn't do it in Fast & Furious.
Another thing that it could do is give government excuse to do massive seizures of property and money.

30 posted on 12/27/2012 11:15:26 PM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: Nachum

You don’t “debate” rights...you exercise them....and you do whatever
is necessary to those who would deny you those rights....including
killing them if necessary.


31 posted on 12/28/2012 12:26:59 AM PST by nvscanman
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To: Nachum

Its like my food - I love something that I enjoy.

What the gun banners are doing turns my stomach instead! I don’t want any restrictions on my right of self-defense.

I’m a believer in the “camel’s nose in the tent” theory. They want to take your Second Amendment right away one law at a time.

Hell, no! This isn’t what I want for this country.


32 posted on 12/28/2012 12:52:56 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: Nachum

Totalitarians aren’t interested in civil debate.


33 posted on 12/28/2012 2:01:31 AM PST by PGalt
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To: Nachum

Pure Alinsky.
“Stigmatize = ridicule

The problem the lefty scum has here is that Americans love their guns.
Lots of Americans love their guns.


34 posted on 12/28/2012 2:08:14 AM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: Nachum

“There is no debate. ‘They’ want war.”

They do indeed. As a famous character once said, “Leave us go amongst them,” and let the battle be joined.


35 posted on 12/28/2012 4:03:16 AM PST by ought-six ( Multiculturalism is national suicide, and political correctness is the cyanide capsule.)
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To: Nachum

“There is no debate. ‘They’ want war.”

They do indeed. As a famous character once said, “Leave us go amongst them,” and let the battle be joined.


36 posted on 12/28/2012 4:03:32 AM PST by ought-six ( Multiculturalism is national suicide, and political correctness is the cyanide capsule.)
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To: ought-six

“Leave us go amongst them” It was Ward Bond and he might have said it twice. Once in the Searchers and again in the Commancheros. Two of a great series of “The” movies with John Wayne. John Wayne taught a couple of generations of boys how to be men. He is missed.


37 posted on 12/28/2012 4:31:42 AM PST by vortec94
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To: july4thfreedomfoundation

“the government wants Americans to start shooting one another”

That’s been obvious since 2009. The Left wants an excuse to decrease the ‘surplus’ population.


38 posted on 12/28/2012 4:46:16 AM PST by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto!)
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To: Nachum

Abunt ten minutes after the massacre, my liberal cousin posted on Facebook, “I don’t want to hear that guns don’t kill people.”

Liberals have no shame. The parents of the students didn’t yet know which kids had survived, and which kids were dead.

I replied that if she didn’t want to hear it, then don’t post it.


39 posted on 12/28/2012 5:12:46 AM PST by Daveinyork (."Trusting government with power and money is like trusting teenaged boys with whiskey and car keys,)
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To: FlingWingFlyer

I just got my first one last week. I’ve always been a supporter of the 2nd amendment. I just didn’t feel the need for me to have a firearm, and neither did my wife. Now we both feel the need.

I took my new Taurus Judge to the range and saw what 410 shotgun rounds will do to anyone who forces me to use it. I feel safer already.


40 posted on 12/28/2012 5:15:57 AM PST by Daveinyork (."Trusting government with power and money is like trusting teenaged boys with whiskey and car keys,)
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To: johnd201
I think what they have really done is give every petty thief in the area a “road map” of what houses to rob. If you are a thief, do want to enter a home of a gun owner? The non-gun owners should just put a sign on their doors, “Rob me”.

Actually, they've given thieves a roadmap to where they can almost certainly find guns to steal. The other houses simply don't have "legal" firearms. As we've seen on numerous occasions, anti-gun politicians own firearms to protect themselves and their families. "Guns for me and not for thee!" The same holds true for many on the left.

41 posted on 12/28/2012 6:06:03 AM PST by MadPenguin (An armed man is a citizen; an unarmed man is a subject!)
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To: Nowhere Man
Cold civil war?

The left climbed into bed with the muslim terrorist in 1991 following the R King beating.

They are following the Weather Underground playbook with one major change. Instead of using domestic terrorist to carry out terrorist attacks after ginning up civil unrest, they are using foreign terrorist.

The left has been in a hot war with us for over 20 years, we just haven't been in a hot war with the left. They are now trying to turn it into a hot war from both sides.

42 posted on 12/28/2012 6:27:14 AM PST by IMR 4350
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To: FlingWingFlyer

Went to a Bass Pro shop yesterday, and they are out of firearms.


43 posted on 12/28/2012 6:29:55 AM PST by zeugma (Those of us who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.)
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To: zeugma

It’s insane around here. Trying to get close to the gun counter is crazy. The places are packed.


44 posted on 12/28/2012 6:35:49 AM PST by FlingWingFlyer (U.S. elections have become nothing but another cheap ripoff of American Idol.)
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To: DBrow

“This is 1984 America, this is a time when the information channels are controlled by the enemy.”

I must respectfully disagree & offer the reassurance that it is now nearly three decades since 1984, and the traditional information channels which then meant the MSM in TV & newspapers, are as obsolete as the C&O Canal became when the railroads came along. That genie is now completely out of the bottle with the internet, social media, youtube, alternative news sources, and any other means of telecommunication which have made it impossible for the powers that formerly were, to stifle debate on this or any other subject. Liberal namecallers are now openly ridiculed in a way they cannot avoid being aware of.

Feinstein & her AWB have provoked a tremendous backlash which not even Obama can afford to ignore. Meekness in the populace has been replaced by anger; liberal assertions are challenged & mocked to the degree that liberals cry “ouch!” by demanding the bringing back of the Fairness Doctrine.

Situation is far from hopeless, FReepers & patriots.

:^)


45 posted on 12/28/2012 7:03:26 AM PST by elcid1970 ("The Second Amendment is more important than Islam.")
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To: elcid1970

When the progs call out the “low information voters” it’s the “1984” channels that get their attention.

Not everyone can do an in-depth web search to root out lies and disinformation.


46 posted on 12/28/2012 7:20:53 AM PST by DBrow
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To: johnd201

The real problem is for people who worked hard to remove all public references to their location. Many owning guns do so for legitimate worries over stalkers, abusive exes, witnesses, etc. The requirement to register a gun came with an understanding that, while technically public info, the state would refrain from releasing that information for frivolous purposes. Now their addresses etc are just a Google search away - and a short drive for those intending violence upon them.


47 posted on 12/28/2012 7:30:06 AM PST by ctdonath2 (End of debate. Your move.)
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To: Nowhere Man
...anti-gunners who see it as a war and they compare themselves to George Washington and us pro-gunners are the British

Next time they try and pull this, ask them who it was who marched on Lexington and Concord with the purpose of confiscating the arms of the colonists. There are a lot of reasons for the Revolutionary War, but the fighting was sparked over the issue of gun control.

There is a good chance these morons never heard about what went on at Lexington and Concord and the events afterwards, so it would be a good teaching moment.


48 posted on 12/28/2012 8:09:19 AM PST by Gritty (One chief guarantee of freedom is the right of citizens to keep and bear arms - Hubert H. Humphrey)
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To: goldstategop
I’m a believer in the “camel’s nose in the tent” theory. They want to take your Second Amendment right away one law at a time.

You are correct, sir. From the article:

Advocates of gun control in Congress claim that talk of banning all guns is crazy, but stunts like this demonstrate that such foolish ideas are bubbling very close to the surface in the liberal media. Broad support for some changes in existing gun laws probably exists right now in the wake of the Newtown massacre. But the chances for putting reasonable limits on military-style weapons or ammunition clips will be sunk if the anti-gun zealots in the media continue to show their real agenda is creating an atmosphere in which all firearms will be banned.

49 posted on 12/28/2012 8:26:03 AM PST by CedarDave (Presstitutes: Journalists who refuse to ask hard questions and who report by omission or distortion)
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To: Nowhere Man

As someone who had their name as address listed by the paper - not interested in discussing anything with these communists.

F them all, every last one of them.


50 posted on 12/28/2012 8:32:03 AM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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