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London could make EU “unravel”
EU Observer ^ | 28.12.12 @ 09:12 | Honor Mahony

Posted on 12/30/2012 4:23:18 AM PST by Olog-hai

An attempt by Britain to rewrite the EU rulebook to reflect domestic interests could make the European Union fall apart, its top official has warned.

EU council president Herman Van Rompuy told the Guardian newspaper that London’s quest to repatriate powers from Brussels could spark other member states to do the same. “If every member state were able to cherry-pick those parts of existing policies that they most like, and opt out of those that they least like, the union in general, and the single market in particular, would soon unravel.” …

Meanwhile, the future-of-Europe debate is taking place in other member states too. According to a report in the Süddeutsche Zeitung, Germany’s conservative CSU party—the Bavarian sister party of the ruling CDU party—is calling for a smaller European Commission. In the future, it should only have 14 European Commissioners instead of the current 27, says a draft party paper due to be agreed (upon) in January. …

(Excerpt) Read more at euobserver.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government; News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: cityoflondon; eurobanking; eussr; totalitarianism; uk
Yes, how terrible: pull powers back to where they belong and not be a vassal. Nobody should ever do that . . .
1 posted on 12/30/2012 4:23:27 AM PST by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

Are the Brits chafing at the idea of being economically colonized?

(Irony is so ironic.)


2 posted on 12/30/2012 4:34:36 AM PST by shibumi (Cover it with gas and set it on fire.)
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To: Olog-hai

Any large organization becomes coopted by special interests that are not necessarily the member’s original purpose or in the member’s own interests. The EU is a “voluntary” Soviet style empire. It has a universal currency that is not in the interests of most of the individual states. It is seeking a military. What would the EU masters do with their military if a state decided to leave? Intimidate? Occupy? The EU was a very bad, Communist idea. It will end as the Soviet Empire ended.


3 posted on 12/30/2012 4:35:43 AM PST by Gen.Blather
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To: Olog-hai; All
Europe and the UK would be greatly helped with the break up of the EU

Free Trade Communist Globalism has failed. The EU has demonstrated this.

However...we still have fools on this side of the Atlantic who keep pushing for a EU for North America.....with NAFTA and the planned North American Union. Economic stupudity will be the ruin of this planet

4 posted on 12/30/2012 4:55:59 AM PST by SeminoleCounty (Fiscal Conservatives are Neither)
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To: Olog-hai

That sounds like a good thing for British people and for European people. It might also set a nice example for the people of Texas, Utah, Wyoming, and the other 47 (or so) states on this side of the pond. The only losers are the ruling class liberal elites, and I don’t care if they have to start working productively for a living too.


5 posted on 12/30/2012 4:57:17 AM PST by Pollster1 (Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. - Ronald Reagan)
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To: Gen.Blather

Nigel Garage - Just who the hell do you think you are?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2gm9q8uabTs


6 posted on 12/30/2012 5:14:00 AM PST by preacher (Communism has only killed 100 million people: Let's give it another chance!)
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To: Olog-hai
A loose federation of free states, formed for their mutual benefit, works if they restrict themselves to a simple set of rules to promote commerce.
A central increasingly heavy-handed body that constantly makes more and more and more laws and regulations every day, that everybody else have to follow, it does not work so well, does it?
It's expensive, it grows and the power corrupts.
Same in US as in Europe.

7 posted on 12/30/2012 5:20:51 AM PST by BitWielder1 (Corporate Profits are better than Government Waste)
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To: preacher

Garage=Farage typo


8 posted on 12/30/2012 5:20:51 AM PST by preacher (Communism has only killed 100 million people: Let's give it another chance!)
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To: preacher
Garage=Farage typo

Of course it is, he is from the UK, which means he is Nigel Motor House.
9 posted on 12/30/2012 5:23:07 AM PST by Dr. Sivana ("C'est la vie" say the old folks, it goes to show you never can tell. -- Chuck Berry)
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To: shibumi

Definitely ironic ~ the very masters of economic colonization, colonized economically by, of all things, Central and Eastern Europeans and Pakistanis.


10 posted on 12/30/2012 5:27:15 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: Gen.Blather
Communist?

As I recall it the current EU was established to stabilize industrial development between Northern and Southern Europe and create something akin to universal European citizenship with a bill of rights (as Europeans can understand such things).

Then there was this little bitty part even Americans don't usually understand here ~ the uniform commercial code. We have one. It's an interstate compact. Europe decided to use the existing structure in Brussels to create their own European uniform commercial code with top down force.

About 99% of EU cultural battles center on that code. The US, by avoiding top down force has no cultural battles with our version.

The result is the folks who used to manufacture volcanic goat cheese in France moved to California ~ lots of French goats there and volcanic ash!

They feel safe for the moment.

11 posted on 12/30/2012 5:34:58 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: Gen.Blather
French Goat Cheese from Valencay is still made in France, but it's dusted with charcoal ash. The real stuff is made exclusively in California and is duted with authentic volcanic dust, and boy does California have a lot of that.

As American herds expand due to a new found like for goats and goat byproducts we'll see more French niche cheese makers move here to escape the EU standards that dictate that food must not knowingly cause cancer or damge your liver.

The fact the French let the EU interfere with cheese production is a sign of just how corrupt the EU has become.

12 posted on 12/30/2012 5:42:58 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: Olog-hai
London could make EU “unravel”

From what I read, a strong breeze could do that.

Blame the British? Are we certain the author didn't misspell "Bush"?

13 posted on 12/30/2012 5:43:03 AM PST by Caipirabob (Communists... Socialists... Democrats...Traitors... Who can tell the difference?)
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To: Olog-hai

Herman Van Rompuy is such a gray man empty suit, that I got quite a laugh when somebody got a video of him making a blah-blah speech, while sitting, with most of his mouth concealed by the microphone. And replaced whatever he was saying with the audio of “I Like Big Butts”, by Sir Mix-a-Lot.


14 posted on 12/30/2012 7:10:20 AM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy (Best WoT news at rantburg.com)
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To: muawiyah
The EU was always meant to be a political union. First clause of the preamble of the 1957 Treaty of Rome (which formed the European Economic Community) says “DETERMINED to lay the foundations of an ever-closer union among the peoples of Europe” . . . and you can read the rest, including stuff about “eliminat(ing) the barriers which divide Europe” and so on. The Treaty of Maastricht established the “social market economy” as the uniform economy for all its member states.

And back in 2007, Vladimir Bukovsky (a very famous Soviet dissident) compared the EU successfully to the USSR, and even said the EU was worse than the USSR in many respects.

Don’t say that Americans do not understand the EU. It is Europeans for the most part who do not understand it, even though its intent is more than transparent. So yeah . . . communist.
15 posted on 12/30/2012 8:25:45 AM PST by Olog-hai
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To: shibumi

I do not find that funny.


16 posted on 12/30/2012 8:29:25 AM PST by Olog-hai
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
Mr. “Europe is still sexy”? Never mind thinking of Europe (they always conflate “Europe” and the European Union) as a “club” (which implies the phrase “old boy’s” in front of the word). Barroso already called it an empire, which prior to 2007 was a verboten term, and it is not an innocuous term.
17 posted on 12/30/2012 8:39:52 AM PST by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai
Depnds on how you define communist. Having spent a bit of time patroling the border ~ aka 'the iron curtain' ~ and combining that personal experience with my knowledge acquired elsewhere over the years, it seems to me the Western Europeans have not been nor do they intend to ever be communist.

BTW, statements of purpose are not controlling documents ~ you need to look elsewhere for them.

And comparisons of the EU to the former USSR are not new ~ always somebody coming up with some way of discrediting something else by drawing a simile up.

Since the earliest days the USSR operated under the hypothecations of Democratic Centrism. The EU doesn't, but when it comes to quality control systems and a universal commercial code, a bit of Eastern and Central European authoritarianism has crept in. This is exactly why the best you can get in Europe is 'charcoal ash' goat cheese ~ the 'volcanic dust' goat cheese makers having relocated to America.

I really do think you can read the entrails of Europe by checking out the French cheese markets!

18 posted on 12/30/2012 9:09:37 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

I define “communist” as how they all have behaved historically.

And the EU does imitate the USSR’s democratic centralism so-called. Read what Bukovsky wrote. This did not “creep in” from the east but has been there from the beginning—and all you need to do is read the treaties to see that.


19 posted on 12/30/2012 9:12:36 AM PST by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai
The day I start taking Soviet Dissident's pronunciamentos as having any sort of utility regarding Western Europe will be the day after the end of time.

You have no idea how isolated even the top echelon of the USSR were.

20 posted on 12/30/2012 9:15:14 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

Then you’ve destroyed your credibility.


21 posted on 12/30/2012 9:16:14 AM PST by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai
hardly. There are people who grow up in different places. They have a perspective on their place of origin that is almost always a judgment based in facts.

Others who never grew up in, for example, Western Civilization, can have only an outsider's perspective ~ not that it's always going to be bad or anything, but it will not be complete.

You bring in a Russian to tell us that the EU operates according to Leninist principles and everybody is in a gulag, not likely I'll track that thought process all that well. Better to bring me in a high ranking design engineer who is both delighted and absolutely amazed that we use metal for lintels and facings around elevators, and to top that off have brail numbers punched into the faceplate for the buttons and we can do some compare, contrast, and draw conclusions with that fellow.

It's very obvious that Western Europe is not being operated according to the thuggish principles enunciated by Lenin and his barbarian hordes ~

22 posted on 12/30/2012 9:33:28 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: Olog-hai


23 posted on 12/30/2012 1:17:12 PM PST by shibumi (Cover it with gas and set it on fire.)
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To: Olog-hai
only thing i said Europeans didn't understand was the US uniform commercial code ~ which is an interstate compact ~ and apparently you don't either. Read up on the topic.

Back in the Cold War the Russians had to come up with some common denominator that would allow them to readily send mail to the rest of the world, as well as receive it (since all those systems were changing) ~ there are balance of accounts processes, prohibited plants, etc.

They were at such a loss to figure it out they threw up their hands at a meeting of the governing body of the Universal Postal Union and requested assistance ~ someone gave them a copy of the US international mail manual ~ which they initially adopted word for word including prohibitions on mailing scions (cuttings) to designated areas, e.g. California, Florida,.... We had a laugh riot over it.

over time they figured out how to use those rules. Still, initially they didn't have a designated expert who could even comprehend what was going on in the rest of the world ~ their other points of contact were little different ~ their universities were out of the loop, Soviet engineering and technology was proceeding ahead without feed back from the West ~ that left them some pretty good airplanes with bad jet engines, and even worse, no computer chips worth having except an 8 bit model in Hungary ~ they tried a workaround by writing up a very good OS for that chip but in the end they began installing Western computer chips in their ICBM command and control systems ~ which was positively terrifying to them and us. Eventually Gorbachev moved to the top and Yeltsin's crowd simply abolished the old system ~ Russia became far less menacing since a bit of openness did allow outsiders to tell them about egregious errors that threatened everybody in ways they, the Russians never imagined.

I'm sure some Soviet dissidents knew some things, but even the top guys in the KGB didn't know what they needed to know just to keep things safe.

my neighber who'd been the USSR bag man for the big dogs when they came to DC (he had a roll of $100 bills to buy stuff) decided he'd like to stay here and defected just as the whole system was ready to fall. A lady we hired some years later who'd grown up in the system ~ on military bases with her officer father ~ had also worked in Russian refugee relief in Afghanistan ~ and she had beliefs about 'things' that'd curl your hair ~ rather leftwing, but she really did care about refugees ~ most of us have never met anyone who'd even been a refugee. my neighborhood has many people who'e been late 20th century and early 21st century refugees ~ then there's the guy next door whose brother carried him on his back from the Korean speaking part of China through North Korea all the way to the Pusan perimeter in South Korea back during the war. We were just talking about his experience in the Viet Nam War.

As a child he knew Communism wasn't for him ~ but get him to vote Republican? Now that's difficult.

The way I look at is the way I look at sheep and goats ~ I have a genetic aversion to the meat, but I've talked extensively with folks who grew up depending on every part of a goat or a sheep to live, and they tell me things that I can remember and appreciate. Really incredible what the Navajo are like when they talk about sheep ~ far different than Uzbeks or the old timers back in Indiana.

Politics the world over are like sheep ~depends on how close you can get and which way the wind is blowing. The only people on the planet I've ever met who appreciate the American attitude toward firearms are from Yemen ~ we understand each other at a visceral level that defies explanation to the others.

24 posted on 12/30/2012 3:41:14 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Olog-hai
only thing i said Europeans didn't understand was the US uniform commercial code ~ which is an interstate compact ~ and apparently you don't either. Read up on the topic.

Back in the Cold War the Russians had to come up with some common denominator that would allow them to readily send mail to the rest of the world, as well as receive it (since all those systems were changing) ~ there are balance of accounts processes, prohibited plants, etc.

They were at such a loss to figure it out they threw up their hands at a meeting of the governing body of the Universal Postal Union and requested assistance ~ someone gave them a copy of the US international mail manual ~ which they initially adopted word for word including prohibitions on mailing scions (cuttings) to designated areas, e.g. California, Florida,.... We had a laugh riot over it.

over time they figured out how to use those rules. Still, initially they didn't have a designated expert who could even comprehend what was going on in the rest of the world ~ their other points of contact were little different ~ their universities were out of the loop, Soviet engineering and technology was proceeding ahead without feed back from the West ~ that left them some pretty good airplanes with bad jet engines, and even worse, no computer chips worth having except an 8 bit model in Hungary ~ they tried a workaround by writing up a very good OS for that chip but in the end they began installing Western computer chips in their ICBM command and control systems ~ which was positively terrifying to them and us. Eventually Gorbachev moved to the top and Yeltsin's crowd simply abolished the old system ~ Russia became far less menacing since a bit of openness did allow outsiders to tell them about egregious errors that threatened everybody in ways they, the Russians never imagined.

I'm sure some Soviet dissidents knew some things, but even the top guys in the KGB didn't know what they needed to know just to keep things safe.

my neighber who'd been the USSR bag man for the big dogs when they came to DC (he had a roll of $100 bills to buy stuff) decided he'd like to stay here and defected just as the whole system was ready to fall. A lady we hired some years later who'd grown up in the system ~ on military bases with her officer father ~ had also worked in Russian refugee relief in Afghanistan ~ and she had beliefs about 'things' that'd curl your hair ~ rather leftwing, but she really did care about refugees ~ most of us have never met anyone who'd even been a refugee. my neighborhood has many people who'e been late 20th century and early 21st century refugees ~ then there's the guy next door whose brother carried him on his back from the Korean speaking part of China through North Korea all the way to the Pusan perimeter in South Korea back during the war. We were just talking about his experience in the Viet Nam War.

As a child he knew Communism wasn't for him ~ but get him to vote Republican? Now that's difficult.

The way I look at is the way I look at sheep and goats ~ I have a genetic aversion to the meat, but I've talked extensively with folks who grew up depending on every part of a goat or a sheep to live, and they tell me things that I can remember and appreciate. Really incredible what the Navajo are like when they talk about sheep ~ far different than Uzbeks or the old timers back in Indiana.

Politics the world over are like sheep ~depends on how close you can get and which way the wind is blowing. The only people on the planet I've ever met who appreciate the American attitude toward firearms are from Yemen ~ we understand each other at a visceral level that defies explanation to the others.

25 posted on 12/30/2012 3:41:38 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

What does any of this have to do with the subject of this thread?

And Bukovsky knows what he’s talking about when it comes to the EU as a political entity.


26 posted on 12/30/2012 3:57:54 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai
maybe he does ~ his experitise seems to be much more about the former USSR and its denizens, with a focus on neurophysiology ~ good man for Biden to see perhaps.

Then there's the torture thing ~ he thinks a little bit of waterboarding is torture. As a neurophysiologist he knows better.

When the funny little foreign dudes flip over and start kvetching about American torture they lose my attention every single time ~

27 posted on 12/30/2012 4:34:40 PM PST by muawiyah
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