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‘Major setback’ in fiscal cliff talks
Politico ^

Posted on 12/30/2012 12:59:24 PM PST by Sub-Driver

‘Major setback’ in fiscal cliff talks By: Manu Raju and John Bresnahan December 30, 2012 12:15 PM EST

Negotiations between Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and Minority Leader Mitch McConnell suffered a “major setback” after Republicans demanded the inclusion of a new method for calculating entitlement benefits as part of the fiscal cliff package, according to Democrats.

The provision, known as “chained CPI,” is opposed by many liberals because it would result in lower payments for Social Security beneficiaries.

While President Barack Obama has backed the provision as part of a major deficit package, Democrats are objecting to including this as part of the negotiations on a scaled-down fiscal cliff deal. They say they’ve already given ground on other issues, including raising the threshold for new taxes to around $400,000 annually as well as showing flexibility on estate taxes, sources said.

But Republicans are insisting on the chained CPI provision in exchange for raising taxes.

On the Senate floor, Reid ruled out any cuts to Social Security as part of any agreement to avert the fiscal cliff.

(Excerpt) Read more at politico.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; Government; Politics/Elections
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Children.....
1 posted on 12/30/2012 12:59:30 PM PST by Sub-Driver
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To: Sub-Driver
The talk about taxes is a waste of time as it means nothing in the whole scheme of trying to fix this mess. We have a nation full of idiots if they believe that all our economic problems are a result of the rich not paying enough taxes.

Raising taxes on the rich will only make matters worse and will result in increased unemployment.

We need economic growth which will only come from creating more taxpayers. We need tax cuts; and we need budget cuts--NOW!!

2 posted on 12/30/2012 1:05:08 PM PST by Conservativegreatgrandma
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To: Sub-Driver

Let me get this straight: Dems have given ground and have shown flexibility, and the GOP wants to cut Social Security.

Oh, I see, it’s from Politico.


3 posted on 12/30/2012 1:10:09 PM PST by P.O.E. (Pray for America)
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To: Conservativegreatgrandma

Republicans should just submit a bill to the Senate that makes the Bush tax cuts permenant for everyone.

Bill two addresses sequestration.

Bill three addresses Chained CPI.

Bill four addresses the dairy farmers.

Bill five addresses the debt limit.

Bill six addresses deficit reduction.

Give every bill to the Senate tonight with the premise that the house will take up tax increases on those making over $250,000 in 2013.


4 posted on 12/30/2012 1:10:09 PM PST by EQAndyBuzz (You can't bring something to its knees that refuses to stand on its own)
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To: EQAndyBuzz

I would never go along with increasing taxes on those with incomes of over $250,000 without making a HUGE deal of it through the press. Somehow the braindead voters of this country has to be made to understand our problem is NOT under taxing of the rich—it is over spending.


5 posted on 12/30/2012 1:16:28 PM PST by Conservativegreatgrandma
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To: Conservativegreatgrandma
Somehow the braindead voters of this country has to be made to understand our problem is NOT under taxing of the rich—it is over spending.

Not that I disagree with you, but the problem with that is that those brain dead voters voted to receive some of that spending. They'll be happy as long as they get theirs.

6 posted on 12/30/2012 1:24:57 PM PST by TwelveOfTwenty (Ho, ho, hey, hey, I'm BUYcotting Chick-Fil-A)
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To: Sub-Driver

Not children....they are what you find in a diaper.


7 posted on 12/30/2012 1:26:26 PM PST by ColdOne (I miss my poochie... Tasha 2000~3/14/11)
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To: Sub-Driver

So President Bain was willing to “compromise”. Too bad we don’t have a Dark Knight to truly oppose him.


8 posted on 12/30/2012 1:30:01 PM PST by Ingtar (Everyone complains about the weather, but only Liberals try to legislate it.)
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To: Conservativegreatgrandma

When you check out wome of the crap they spend our tax dolars on ya have to wonder if anyone has a clue?
You folks in Iowa cold??


9 posted on 12/30/2012 1:32:21 PM PST by Joe Boucher ((FUBO))
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To: Conservativegreatgrandma

Can you believe the stupidity of proposing a cut in social security?? Talk about stupid, Cut welfare!! cut foreign aid. Cut foreign military bases!! Not the social security which we paid for!!


10 posted on 12/30/2012 1:33:04 PM PST by willowdean
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To: Sub-Driver
opposed by many liberals because it would result in lower payments for Social Security beneficiaries

and which President/Congress did not have a Cost of Living Adjustment for SS for the first couple of years?

11 posted on 12/30/2012 1:34:05 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: willowdean

Who said anything about cutting SS? CPI might lower the increases though.

WHich Prez/Congress didn’t even give a COLA to SS recipients for the couple of years?


12 posted on 12/30/2012 1:35:55 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: TwelveOfTwenty

Of course.


13 posted on 12/30/2012 1:39:18 PM PST by Conservativegreatgrandma
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To: Sub-Driver

We need to just let it expire. Let it be the dems problem.


14 posted on 12/30/2012 1:43:16 PM PST by Diggity
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To: willowdean

Considering the nature of SS from the beginning, the age at which a recipient can begin to receive it should be adjusted each year according to actuarial tables.


15 posted on 12/30/2012 1:43:34 PM PST by Conservativegreatgrandma
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To: Conservativegreatgrandma

I agree. It would be one of those promises that are never kept. Time for the Republicans to play like the Democrats.


16 posted on 12/30/2012 1:46:40 PM PST by EQAndyBuzz (You can't bring something to its knees that refuses to stand on its own)
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To: willowdean

>> Not the social security which we paid for!!

But it’s an ‘entitlement’ now.


17 posted on 12/30/2012 1:46:52 PM PST by Gene Eric (Demoralization is a weapon of the enemy. Don't get it, don't spread it!)
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To: Joe Boucher
Un, yea, we're cold but you wouldn't get Mr. CGG out of here--he loves the cold, and he prays for snow just so he can get on his little John Deere snow thrower, which has a cab, and he goes up and down our street plowing out the neighbor's drives--just for the fun of it.

He'll be heading to FL in a couple of months with our daughters, who take him there once a year, but not until after the chance of snow is over. I'm not kidding.

18 posted on 12/30/2012 1:48:25 PM PST by Conservativegreatgrandma
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To: Conservativegreatgrandma

I disagree. We worked under a contract agreement.That agreement had the age at 66 for full benefits. You shall not breach that agreement. Talk about tables? How about the table of earnings on our money? It is a trust fund!! Lock box right? They didn’t steal our money did they. That is theft!! a felony!!


19 posted on 12/30/2012 1:51:58 PM PST by willowdean
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To: Sub-Driver

“McConnell said he had called Vice President Joe Biden — his former Senate colleague whom he has previously worked with to cut bipartisan deals — ‘to see if he could help jump-start the negotiations on his side.’”

What? Send in “The Clown” Biden?

A sure sign this “deal” isn’t likely to happen!


20 posted on 12/30/2012 1:53:02 PM PST by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from "runway kill zone" mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
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To: GeronL

CPI is already one of the most heavily cooked numbers on the planet, and the Republicans say they want to tweak it to cook the numbers even more, resulting in less SS for people who spent their lives paying into it.

But you may be in the camp that considers SS “welfare.”


21 posted on 12/30/2012 1:53:57 PM PST by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
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To: Sub-Driver

The way it is going to work out unless the Republicans totally surrender and gives them more than they asked for is the Democrats have no intention of giving an inch. What Reid and Obama want is exactly what Obama authorized Reid to place on the floor and they will allow no deviation. The MSM will fall all over Obama singing his praises. That’s been the plan from the start.


22 posted on 12/30/2012 1:59:21 PM PST by airedale
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To: Conservativegreatgrandma
Considering the nature of SS from the beginning, the age at which a recipient can begin to receive it should be adjusted each year according to actuarial tables.

Yeah...and when Obamacare kicks in life expectancy is going back to the original 65.

Resulting in a big increase in SS payments.

23 posted on 12/30/2012 1:59:56 PM PST by spokeshave (The only people better off today than 4 years ago are the Prisoners at Guantanamo.)
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To: Sub-Driver

Let it go over the cliff. All these jerks who voted for Obama because he promised to raise the taxes on the top 2% can start paying their fair share now. Raise everyone’s taxes, cut the spending and go on down the road. Time for the 47% to step up to the plate.


24 posted on 12/30/2012 2:00:48 PM PST by kjam22 (my newest music video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VciTnYA4Bfk)
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To: Conservativegreatgrandma
The talk about taxes is a waste of time as it means nothing in the whole scheme of trying to fix this mess.

Zactly. It is a diversion.

25 posted on 12/30/2012 2:07:02 PM PST by VRW Conspirator (We were the tea party before there was a tea party. - Jim Robinson)
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To: Conservativegreatgrandma
Results of 1983 reform:

As of 2011, the earliest age for Social Security retirement benefits is 62, but those opting to receive benefits at this age will see benefits reduced by a fraction of a percent for every month before the full retirement age. For those born before 1943, the full retirement age is 65. For those born between 1943 and 1959, the full retirement age is 66, and those born after 1960 receive full retirement benefits at 67.

Later Retirement

Those delaying taking Social Security benefits until after the full retirement age for their particular date of birth may increase benefits by a monthly percentage for each month until reaching age 70.

26 posted on 12/30/2012 2:17:47 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: GeronL

This regime did not put through any COLA increases for SS recipients the first two years. The last two increases have been eaten up by Medicare increases.


27 posted on 12/30/2012 2:19:41 PM PST by NTHockey (Rules of engagement #1: Take no prisoners)
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To: Sub-Driver
But Republicans are insisting on the chained CPI provision in exchange for raising taxes.

This is something nobama brought up. Now the pubs are for it and the Dems are again it? Welcome to bizarro world.

Besides, how much lower than 1.7% do they want to go? Much lower and they might as well forget about it.

28 posted on 12/30/2012 2:21:53 PM PST by upchuck (America's at an awkward stage. Too late to work within the system, too early to shoot the bastards.)
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To: Cyber Liberty

Social security didn’t start out as a welfare program but it has been moving in that direction over the years. The system cannot sustain the millions of people claiming disability who paid little or nothing into the system but will collect a lifetime of benefits. It is also not sustainable when the average person collects 4X as much as they pay into the plan. These problems will only grow bigger as our workforce continues to shrink from obama-nomics and the pool of retirees grows from baby boomers retiring. I don’t want anybody to get less then what they are entitled to but something has to change.


29 posted on 12/30/2012 2:31:05 PM PST by peeps36 (America is being destroyed by filthy traitors in the political establishment)
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To: peeps36
Social security didn’t start out as a welfare program but ... It is also not sustainable when the average person collects 4X as much as they pay into the plan.

If I'd been allowed to invest what they took from me in FICA, I'd *have* 4X as much as I paid in. It's the miracle of compounded interest.

Good FReepers have written to me (with I assume straight faces) that SS needs to be means tested, because it's "not fair Bill Gates can collect SS." Bullcarp. If he paid in as I did, he deserves payout. Even alleged conservatives have fallen for the "Well, SS turned into welfare, so we need to screw good people over because they're just filthy, grubbing welfare recipients" leftist propaganda.

Bottom line: If by some miracle your 401K survives to your retirement, your Social Security will be reduced as punishment for scrimping and saving your whole life.

30 posted on 12/30/2012 2:39:43 PM PST by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
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To: willowdean

Hello newbie...


31 posted on 12/30/2012 3:08:45 PM PST by PghBaldy (12/14 - 930am -rampage begins... 12/15 - 1030am - Obama's advance team scouts photo-op locations.)
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To: willowdean

...I disagree. We worked under a contract agreement.That agreement had the age at 66 for full benefits. You shall not breach that agreement....

check your social security statement, there is no contract Congress can and does change the law anytime it wants look at WEP. SS is a ponzi scheme that should have Congress in jail, but they write the rules until such time as the people take back the country or we have honest politicians (LOL) We also gave the government the right to govern us with certain exceptions spelled out in the Constitution, how is that working out? They breached it so what are we going to do?


32 posted on 12/30/2012 3:26:20 PM PST by rolling_stone
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To: Cyber Liberty

it is no different than any other government payments to individuals. ‘Paid into...’ the general fund like everything else. How long have you paid into food stamps? or Planned Parenthood?


33 posted on 12/30/2012 3:32:28 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: Cyber Liberty

it is no different than any other government payments to individuals. ‘Paid into...’ the general fund like everything else. How long have you paid into food stamps? or Planned Parenthood?


34 posted on 12/30/2012 3:32:48 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: peeps36

Nonsense. It was a Ponzi scheme from day one.


35 posted on 12/30/2012 3:35:25 PM PST by Kozak (The Republic is dead. I do not owe what we have any loyalty, wealth or sympathy.)
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To: Sub-Driver

Something has happened. The DOW Industrial futures went from -226 an hour ago to +31 as of this posting.

http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/stocks/futures/


36 posted on 12/30/2012 3:40:11 PM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy (Best WoT news at rantburg.com)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

Let me guess, GOP caved.


37 posted on 12/30/2012 3:41:26 PM PST by Kozak (The Republic is dead. I do not owe what we have any loyalty, wealth or sympathy.)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

Something has happened...

Republicans caved.


38 posted on 12/30/2012 3:43:09 PM PST by BushCountry (I hope the Mayans are wrong!)
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To: GeronL

Okie Dokie. I thought I remembered you correctly. You’re one of the a-holes who thinks people who payed into the SS system and are expecting to get paid back are welfare recipients.


39 posted on 12/30/2012 3:47:47 PM PST by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
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To: Cyber Liberty

lol. very simplistic. you pay taxes expecting to get it back?


40 posted on 12/30/2012 3:51:51 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: Cyber Liberty

Of course, had you invested no return—or even retention of principal—would have been guaranteed either.

The fact is that the guv didn’t invest for you and we don’t have the money to pay what people are expecting back—particularly now that we’re living so much longer.

So cuts have to come somewhere. The obvious, unless we just scrap it altogether, include lower increases, later eligibility, and means testing.

What do you propose?


41 posted on 12/30/2012 4:36:03 PM PST by 9YearLurker
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To: willowdean

“Can you believe the stupidity of proposing a cut in social security?? Talk about stupid, Cut welfare!! cut foreign aid. Cut foreign military bases!! Not the social security which we paid for!!”

This is why nothing will get cut. Everyone wants to cut everyone elses spending, but not “their” spending.


42 posted on 12/30/2012 5:02:03 PM PST by RFEngineer
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To: willowdean

“That is theft!! a felony!!”

So you’re actually a comedian. That’s good to have an extra skill. You’ll need that extra income after they cut your social security that you think you paid for.


43 posted on 12/30/2012 5:05:10 PM PST by RFEngineer
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To: 9YearLurker
Stop calling people on SS "welfare recipients" for starters. (You didn't do that, from what I can see. But others can't resist the temptation. Must be either government workers or shiftless bums who never worked two consecutive quarters in their lives.)

My plan would be to increase the retirement age by one year every other year until the age is more in line with the actuarial expectation. I'm fine with putting in more years. And for the love of Pete *don't means test it!!*

Of course, had you invested no return—or even retention of principal—would have been guaranteed either.

True, there are no guarantees, but it's a fact that you can pick any ten-year period in history and you will see the stock market beat inflation. And that includes any decade you want to choose that includes the Great Depression.

44 posted on 12/30/2012 5:09:51 PM PST by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
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To: RFEngineer

So, SS = “Welfare.” Check.


45 posted on 12/30/2012 5:10:59 PM PST by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
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To: Sub-Driver

Mitch McConnell is being politically suicidal.

Social Security is the Third Rail of American politics. If he wants the GOP to keep being in the minority, cut beneficiaries’ monthly checks.

Its a political loser. The Democrats have the whip hand here.


46 posted on 12/30/2012 5:12:53 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: Kozak
I agree it's a ponzi scheme but I also see it as a serious problem that has to be dealt with. The spineless politicians don't have the guts to stand up and tell people the truth about our financial trouble. They would rather destroy the entire country and our future then fix the mess they made. They can either make the necessary cuts in spending or let it bring down the entire system and all of us with it. I have no faith in any of these losers to do what's right.
47 posted on 12/30/2012 5:16:49 PM PST by peeps36 (America is being destroyed by filthy traitors in the political establishment)
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To: Cyber Liberty

“So, SS = “Welfare.” Check.”

It’s not Earned Income. It’s somebody elses earned income.

You can call it what you want, but make sure you tell the guy that made the money that he didn’t really earn that.

Folks don’t get it. It’s all going to get cut. It doesn’t matter whether it’s Welfare or not. The check WILL get smaller, and it might get zeroed out.

Nobody knows. We’ve got incompetents at the helm We may hit an iceberg, we may run aground, we may crack up on the rocks. We know it won’t be smooth sailing.


48 posted on 12/30/2012 5:19:01 PM PST by RFEngineer
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To: Kozak

“It was a Ponzi scheme from day one.”

Nothing wrong with a ponzi scheem as long as you get in early!!!

At 75 the money won’t run out until we are dead!!!!


49 posted on 12/30/2012 5:20:15 PM PST by dalereed
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To: RFEngineer

Sorry, but you are full of it. I’ve seen you somebitches enough on FR to know you. I am finished trying to explain it to you.

I hope to God you have to work every effing day until you die, as you are wishing upon me.


50 posted on 12/30/2012 5:26:01 PM PST by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
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