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NRA fingerprints in landmark health-care law
Washington Post ^ | December 30, 2012 | Peter Wallsten and Tom Hamburger

Posted on 12/31/2012 11:29:08 AM PST by neverdem

Edited on 12/31/2012 11:45:57 AM PST by Sidebar Moderator. [history]

The words were tucked deep into the sprawling text of President Obama’s signature health-care overhaul. Under the headline “Protection of Second Amendment Gun Rights” was a brief provision restricting the ability of doctors to gather data about their patients’ gun use — a largely overlooked but significant challenge to a movement in American medicine to treat firearms as a matter of public health.


(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: banglist; guncontrol; nationalrifleassn; nra; obamacare; ppaca; secondamendment

1 posted on 12/31/2012 11:29:16 AM PST by neverdem
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To: neverdem

“and discovered only in recent days by some lawmakers and medical groups”

LOL, “Pass it to find out what’s in it” bites them in the butt?


2 posted on 12/31/2012 11:32:22 AM PST by Darksheare (Try my coffee, first one's free.....)
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To: neverdem

I guess you have to pass the law to read what is in it. I think that is what we were told, so GFY Wapo.


3 posted on 12/31/2012 11:33:32 AM PST by Mouton (108th MI Group.....68-71)
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To: neverdem

We gotta pass it so that we can see what’s in the bill.

Heh, heh, heh.


4 posted on 12/31/2012 11:33:38 AM PST by technically right
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To: Darksheare

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/nra-fingerprints-in-landmark-health-care-law/2012/12/30/e6018656-5066-11e2-950a-7863a013264b_print.html

The URL got lost. I never saw that before.


5 posted on 12/31/2012 11:36:27 AM PST by neverdem ( Xin loi min oi)
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To: neverdem

At least it didn’t do a browser barf and double post on you.
Let sidebar know you have the link and that it seems to have vaped on you for some reason.
That is, if sidebar still lives?


6 posted on 12/31/2012 11:41:15 AM PST by Darksheare (Try my coffee, first one's free.....)
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To: Darksheare; Mouton; technically right

“Pass it to find out what’s in it”

Just like a stool sample!


7 posted on 12/31/2012 11:43:29 AM PST by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: Darksheare; neverdem; Mouton

P 766 of 906 http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-111hr3590enr/pdf/BILLS-111hr3590enr.pdf

I’ll have a copy of this in my hand when my 7 year old goes for his next checkup..

‘‘(c) PROTECTION OF SECOND AMENDMENT GUN RIGHTS.—
‘‘(1) WELLNESS AND PREVENTION PROGRAMS.—A wellness
and health promotion activity implemented under subsection
(a)(1)(D) may not require the disclosure or collection of any
information relating to—
‘‘(A) the presence or storage of a lawfully-possessed
firearm or ammunition in the residence or on the property
of an individual; or
‘‘(B) the lawful use, possession, or storage of a firearm
or ammunition by an individual.
‘‘(2) LIMITATION ON DATA COLLECTION.—None of the
authorities provided to the Secretary under the Patient Protection
and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that
Act shall be construed to authorize or may be used for the
collection of any information relating to—
‘‘(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm
or ammunition;
‘‘(B) the lawful use of a firearm or ammunition; or
‘‘(C) the lawful storage of a firearm or ammunition.
‘‘(3) LIMITATION ON DATABASES OR DATA BANKS.—None of
the authorities provided to the Secretary under the Patient
Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made
by that Act shall be construed to authorize or may be used
to maintain records of individual ownership or possession of
a firearm or ammunition.
‘‘(4) LIMITATION ON DETERMINATION OF PREMIUM RATES OR
ELIGIBILITY FOR HEALTH INSURANCE.—A premium rate may not
be increased, health insurance coverage may not be denied,
and a discount, rebate, or reward offered for participation in
a wellness program may not be reduced or withheld under
any health benefit plan issued pursuant to or in accordance
with the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an
amendment made by that Act on the basis of, or on reliance
upon—
‘‘(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm
or ammunition; or
‘‘(B) the lawful use or storage of a firearm or ammunition.
‘‘(5) LIMITATION ON DATA COLLECTION REQUIREMENTS FOR
INDIVIDUALS.—No individual shall be required to disclose any
information under any data collection activity authorized under
the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment
made by that Act relating to—
‘‘(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm
or ammunition; or
‘‘(B) the lawful use, possession, or storage of a firearm
or ammunition.’’.
(f) Section 2718 of the Public Health Service Act, as added
by section 1001(5), is amended to read as follows:


8 posted on 12/31/2012 11:45:36 AM PST by Neidermeyer
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra

Or a bladder stone?


9 posted on 12/31/2012 11:47:54 AM PST by Darksheare (Try my coffee, first one's free.....)
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To: neverdem
Good.

It's a minor victory against a monstrosity of a health care law; kind of like flipping the bird at the tiger right before it eats you, but a victory is a victory.

If all medical records are to be accessible by the government, and they are, then doctors asking about and documenting gun ownership is tantamount to registration.

10 posted on 12/31/2012 11:49:59 AM PST by Washi (Socialism is Slavery)
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To: neverdem

INCONVENIENT FACT: Countries that allow private gun ownership have much lower overall murder, suicide and violent crime rates than countries with pervasive gun control laws.

EVIDENCE: According to no less an authority than the peer-reviewed Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy, countries with stringent gun control laws have higher murder and suicide rates than those without.

DOCUMENTATION: “Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide?” A Review of International and Some Domestic Evidence by Don B. Kates and Gary Mauser, Volume 30, Number 2 of the Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy, pages 649-694. (To download a PDF copy of the journal article, simply Google the title. It is available on the web free of charge.)

QUOTE: “If you are surprised by our findings, so are we. We did not begin this research with any intent to “exonerate” handguns, but there it is — a negative finding, to be sure, but a negative finding is nevertheless a positive contribution. It directs us where not to aim public health resources.”

INDIRECTION: The trick hoplophobes always use is to say that America has higher gun-murder rates than other countries, but a lot of those “murders” are criminals killed in the act of committing violent crimes. Compare absolute murder rates, and the result is “more guns, less murder.” (Source: GunFacts.info);

SECOND INCONVENIENT FACT: According to DOJ crime statistics, guns are used by US citizens 2.5 million times per year to prevent violent crimes like rape, robbery, home-invasion and carjacking, 99% of the time without a shot being fired. (Source: GunFacts.info)

THIRD INCONVENIENT FACT: “Assault weapons” (AKA semiautomatic rifles) are used in less than 1% of gun crimes. (Source: GunFacts.info)

QUESTION: If gun-free zones make people safe, then why don’t we declare the immediate vicinity of the President and Vice-President to be gun-free zones and send the Secret Service home? Or are gun-free zones good enough for our kids, but not good enough for our overlords?

METAPHOR: America has more private gun ownership than most other countries, so naturally there are more gun murders. America also has more hospitals than most other countries, so naturally we have more people dying in hospitals. Does that mean we should outlaw hospitals?


11 posted on 12/31/2012 11:57:24 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum ("Democracy is indispensable to socialism. The goal of socialism is communism." --Vladimir Lenin)
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To: neverdem

Well, I guess my doctor could waterboard me to find out...


12 posted on 12/31/2012 11:58:34 AM PST by moovova
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To: moovova; neverdem; Lancey Howard

I’m wavering, see, my doc is retired Marine, still learning to use the system.

What if I told him I own 15 AR’s, 6 Springfield Arms M1’s, 4 Ruger’s, 8 shotguns of various manufactures, etc.

I know he wouldn’t give a crap, but, where would that get me ?


13 posted on 12/31/2012 12:04:44 PM PST by onona (:( I don't have my dress blues either.....)
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To: onona

It is none of his business. I have known my doctor for over 15 years and I don’t tell him anything that is not applicable to my visit.

Just like it is non of the business of the cashier at a store to ask me my zip code or some other drivel if I am paying with cash (shoot even a debit card).


14 posted on 12/31/2012 12:12:09 PM PST by Resolute Conservative
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks neverdem.
Under the headline "Protection of Second Amendment Gun Rights" was a brief provision restricting the ability of doctors to gather data about their patients' gun use -- a largely overlooked but significant challenge to a movement in American medicine to treat firearms as a matter of public health.
Any doctor who'd try that with me would have his face sued off, and if that failed, I'd go back and throttle his or her miserable ass with their sphygmomanometer. I mean that figuratively of course.


15 posted on 12/31/2012 12:15:03 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: neverdem
Re: ObamaCare

Read an essay about this several weeks ago.

Your “FREE” annual ObamaCare exam includes dozens of personal questions like seat belt use, condom use, etc.

We require 7 years of specialized medical training for General Practitioners, but all you'll get is the same conversation you had with your parents when you were a teenager!

It gets worse...

At your annual “FREE” exam, there is a precise script the GP must follow.

If you have a specific medical issue you are worried about, the GP cannot advise you or treat you at THAT exam.

You must make a NEW appointment for that.

The Catch 22...

You can't make a NEW appointment until AFTER you have your completely useless annual exam!

16 posted on 12/31/2012 12:15:08 PM PST by zeestephen
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To: neverdem

This conversation actually began quite some years ago. First govamint wanted to require doctors to ask children what/how/many/what kind of guns their folks had in the house. They were itching to declare “guns-in-the-home” a safety issue for children, pretty much a back door way to get EPA involved in another fake, firearms related, safety issue. NRA did indeed get active to make sure that didn’t happen but the basic problem even preceded Obamuzzie and his not-so-health-care law.


17 posted on 12/31/2012 12:33:27 PM PST by cherokee1 (skip the names---just kick the buttz)
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To: onona

“... but, where would that get me ?”

Probably get your an offer from your Doc to purchase a couple of your weapons...

And, seeing as how you may want to be on GREAT terms with your Doc when the SHTF, you’ll probably do him right...maybe even throw in some complimentary ammo.


18 posted on 12/31/2012 12:48:32 PM PST by moovova
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To: Washi
If all medical records are to be accessible by the government, and they are, then doctors asking about and documenting gun ownership is tantamount to registration.

True.

I would add "accessible by the government and any hacker who breaks in to any of the multitude of access points".

I spend decades in the computer business from before there was an internet and I tell you this: There is no secure system/database. Anyone who tells you otherwise is p*ssing up your leg and telling you it is rain.
19 posted on 12/31/2012 1:42:56 PM PST by Peet (Alles hat ein Ende nur die Wurst hat zwei. (Monroe in "Grimm"))
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To: Resolute Conservative

Just like it is non of the business of the cashier at a store to ask me my zip code ...

That question is about where they direct advertising circulars (read “junk mail”).


20 posted on 12/31/2012 1:47:06 PM PST by Peet (Alles hat ein Ende nur die Wurst hat zwei. (Monroe in "Grimm"))
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sfl


21 posted on 12/31/2012 2:04:57 PM PST by phockthis (http://www.supremelaw.org/fedzone11/index.htm ...)
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To: neverdem

Did they miss the part where the docs wanted to know if people owned cars that could be involved in injury and death much more than guns?

Oh. Maybe that part got cut out.


22 posted on 12/31/2012 2:20:51 PM PST by Right Wing Assault (Dick Obama is more inexperienced now than he was before he was elected.)
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To: onona

He’d probably tell you about his arsenal. That’s what my doctor did.


23 posted on 12/31/2012 2:39:26 PM PST by libstripper
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To: neverdem

That’s about as vile and ominous piece of newspaper crap as I have ever read.

They have their experts and former policy czars referring to gun ownership as a ‘pathogen’.

The fact that something like this had to be inserted into the legislation at all is beyond chilling...it’s a serious personal threat to every gun owner and indeed to anyone who appreciates liberty at all.

If a gun can be labelled a pathogen, so can a deeply held conviction (”you don’t believe in open borders? don’t you think that bigotry is harmful to the well-being of the nation?”), a dietary choice, a career choice (”you work for an oil company/hunting outfitter/private Christian school?”) or even simply a voting pattern (”but Tea Party violence is a threat to this nation!”).

If this proviso had to be inserted into the legislation then it can be removed too.

And the Washington Post reports this not just matter-of-factly but actually rather huffily, as if some grave offense has already been committed by the NRA.

Freepers, these people are coming for us, and they will attempt use every available method to label us, marginalize us and eliminate our way of life, if not our lives.

(neverdem, thank you for the post)


24 posted on 12/31/2012 2:48:40 PM PST by Fightin Whitey
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To: neverdem

“...tucked deep inside...”

And since Democrats drafted the bill and Democrats passed the bill, and Democrats smugly told us that all kinds of surprises where there just waiting to be discovered when we could read the bill after it was passed, I guess that space aliens inserted this language. What moronic hubris.

I for one refuse to be grilled by my doctor about what I may or may not have in the gun safe. If we want to get intrusive for medical purposes, let us ask Democrats about what they like to do in the bedroom.

Even though recent FBI murder statistics show that far more people are murdered with knives than with rifles, this topic has gotten swept up in the post Sandy Hook world. With leftists, every breath of life is ideological.

If doctors insist on playing this game, can we discuss the 26,000 people who died last year because of NSAIDs or the hundred thousand or so who died of medical mistakes? If we really are concerned about unnecessary deaths and injuries, we should let the numbers set our priorities.


25 posted on 12/31/2012 2:49:13 PM PST by theBuckwheat
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

That’s a keeper!


26 posted on 12/31/2012 2:50:50 PM PST by Inyo-Mono (My greatest fear is that when I'm gone my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them)
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To: neverdem

and the RATS, take another one in the.........HA ha!!!

27 posted on 12/31/2012 3:00:50 PM PST by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: neverdem

Feminist organizations with many members in both political parties demanded over a decade ago that doctors be coerced to ask female/child patients about domestic violence and firearms in their homes.


28 posted on 12/31/2012 3:11:08 PM PST by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: familyop

This government has become a malignant pathogen in the body politic...


29 posted on 12/31/2012 4:57:50 PM PST by Hoosier-Daddy ( "It is not our job to protect the people from the consequences of their political choices.")
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra

Oh, I am so totally going to rip you off on that joke....


30 posted on 12/31/2012 5:05:37 PM PST by NVDave
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To: Hoosier-Daddy

Agreed.


31 posted on 12/31/2012 5:09:13 PM PST by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
Excellent post and good facts in the fight.

Lest we forget what the fight is all about:

a movement in American medicine to treat firearms as a matter of public health.

Public health being a metaphor for government control. Public health needs to be limited to actual disease vectors. Instead HIV AIDS is given a pass while guns are elevated to plague level.

32 posted on 01/01/2013 5:04:06 AM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: cherokee1
They were itching to declare “guns-in-the-home” a safety issue for children, pretty much a back door way to get EPA involved in another fake, firearms related, safety issue.

Don't forget the 600 lb Nazis in the room, there. If there are 'safety issues' in the home, then the Social Serpents will be on your doorstep, and they make the TSA (even with an enthusiastic body cavity search) look non-invasive.

The amount of crap they get away with on a whim is amazing, and they LIE. For them, it's all about the caseload, the ticket to advancement. (Maybe there are a FEW who aren't that way, but no one I know has met one.)

33 posted on 01/01/2013 5:15:59 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: Neidermeyer

Thank you! Printed two copies, and saved the file under “NunYaBidnezz.”


34 posted on 01/01/2013 10:16:41 AM PST by TheOldLady
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To: Darksheare

“LOL, “Pass it to find out what’s in it” bites them in the butt?”

Don’t gloat here. The reason the NRA put it in the bill is because, aside from guns, the Secretary of HHS has plenary power to require that you give her any information she wants as a condition of receiving medical care. It’s still us who got bit in the butt.


35 posted on 01/01/2013 5:36:56 PM PST by ModelBreaker
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To: EdReform

bookmark


36 posted on 01/04/2013 2:36:47 PM PST by EdReform (Oath Keepers - Guardians of the Republic - Honor your oath - Join us: www.oathkeepers.org)
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To: neverdem

Rush is talking about this article right now. bttt


37 posted on 01/16/2013 10:24:11 AM PST by Matchett-PI (Obama's Shuck and Jive Ends With Benghazi Lies ~ Sarah Palin)
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