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More Takers than Workers
12/31/2012 | Vanity

Posted on 12/31/2012 3:28:15 PM PST by ProudFossil

Capitol Report | New Mexico » New Mexico tops Forbes list of “death spiral states” found at http://www.capitolreportnewmexico.com/2012/11/nm-tops-forbes-list-of-death-spiral-states/

This report has started a discussion on a local TV channel's comment forum. I am posting a comment from a liberal and a reply to him. The report shows there are 153 state and local employees, retirees, and welfare individuals for every 100 who are working in the private sector in New Mexico.


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: liberals; socialism; taxes; vanity; welfare
The liberal: "you worry too much about welfare for the needy. Please look at the massive amount of welfare paid to Corporations. Corporate welfare is a far bigger drain of tax revenue than most admit!"

The reply:

How does it work that more government employees than private sector workers are good for a capitalistic economy? Please don’t say we need more teachers, firemen and cops. We don’t! My oldest son who has two degrees needs a PRIVATE SECTOR job and not more education.

1 posted on 12/31/2012 3:28:24 PM PST by ProudFossil
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To: ProudFossil

Exactly.

We need jobs in America.

Not in China. Not in Europe. Not in South America, or Africa.

In America.


2 posted on 12/31/2012 3:31:14 PM PST by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: ProudFossil
Alexander Fraser Tytler

Perhaps what he had in mind was what Prof. Alexander Frazer Tytler has written, that a democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largesse out of the public treasury. From that moment on the majority, he said, always vote for the candidate promising the most benefits from the treasury with the result that democracy always collpases over a loose fiscal policy, always to be followed by a dictatorship. Unfortunately, we can't argue with the professor because when he wrote that we were still colonials of Great Britain and he was explaining what had destroyed the Athenian Republic more than 2000 years before.
3 posted on 12/31/2012 3:37:46 PM PST by Cheerio (Barry Hussein Soetoro-0bama=The Complete Destruction of American Capitalism)
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To: Cheerio

Santa always wins. Santa doesn’t always bring presents though!


4 posted on 12/31/2012 3:41:03 PM PST by rawcatslyentist ("Behold, I am against you, O arrogant one," Jeremiah 50:31)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
Not in China. Not in Europe. Not in South America, or Africa.

Then we need to start making it a point to buy products made in America, not China, Europe, or anywhere else. We need to make it profitable for companies to make stuff here by buying from those who do if we want our jobs back.

But at the same time, I won't blame anyone for refusing to buy a car made by workers who choose to be represented by a union like this. Saving American jobs does not mean allowing them to hold our economy hostage.

5 posted on 12/31/2012 3:41:29 PM PST by TwelveOfTwenty (Ho, ho, hey, hey, I'm BUYcotting Chick-Fil-A)
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To: ProudFossil
New Mexico tops Forbes list of “death spiral states”

HTML Sandbox

6 posted on 12/31/2012 3:41:56 PM PST by BBell (And Now for Something Completely Different)
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To: ProudFossil

The host can only support so many parasites before dying.

The leftist parasites don’t seem to be able to comprehend that basic fact. Logic is not a strong suit among leftists; they emote, not think.


7 posted on 12/31/2012 3:43:01 PM PST by SharpRightTurn (White, black, and red all over--America's affirmative action, metrosexual president.)
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To: ProudFossil

Retirees do not belong on that list.


8 posted on 12/31/2012 3:47:57 PM PST by USFRIENDINVICTORIA (Sometimes a "/sarc" tag would just insult the reader.)
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA

Retirees using medicare and social security. Sure they do.


9 posted on 12/31/2012 3:53:53 PM PST by altsehastiin
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA
Retirees do not belong on that list.

You are wrong. In most states the politicians have spent the retirement funds set aside for the retirees. They are now paying the retirees from current tax revenues. THERE IS NO LOCKBOX AND NEVER WAS!!! In some states, i.e., California, it is forcing the local entity into bankruptcy because they squandered the money set aside for the retirees.

10 posted on 12/31/2012 3:59:46 PM PST by ProudFossil (" I never did give anyone hell. I just told the truth and they thought it was hell." Harry Truman)
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To: altsehastiin
Retirees using medicare and social security. Sure they do.

The retirees using medicare and social security may not belong on the list. The list is strictly about STATE AND LOCAL retirees. It does not include federal entitlements. My wife is a retired school teacher. She is on the list. I am on Social Security. I am not on this list. If we start including the federal takers the ratio of takers to makers becomes even worse.

11 posted on 12/31/2012 4:03:38 PM PST by ProudFossil (" I never did give anyone hell. I just told the truth and they thought it was hell." Harry Truman)
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To: ProudFossil

What about people who saved and invested for their retirement? They earned that money. It’s their money — whether they spend it as soon as they earn it, or wait a few years or decades before spending it.


12 posted on 12/31/2012 4:11:58 PM PST by USFRIENDINVICTORIA (Sometimes a "/sarc" tag would just insult the reader.)
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To: ProudFossil
"The report shows there are 153 state and local employees, retirees, and welfare individuals for every 100 who are working in the private sector in New Mexico."

Good post. That's the general situation in our whole country, too. It shows us why we won't see needed spending cuts.


13 posted on 12/31/2012 4:13:13 PM PST by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA
What about people who saved and invested for their retirement? They earned that money. It’s their money — whether they spend it as soon as they earn it, or wait a few years or decades before spending it.

You have missed the point of the article. Those who saved their money, invested it, and are living on that as retirees are not on the list. The list includes retirees of state and local governments who are getting their retirement from the state or local government who are having to pay it from current revenues. They are takers to the system and not makers. Those who have retired on their own means are more makers because they are returning some of their money back into the system. The state and local retirees are takers because they are taking money from the makers for their retirement. It is not their fault because the politicians have wasted the money they did put into the system.

14 posted on 12/31/2012 4:24:21 PM PST by ProudFossil (" I never did give anyone hell. I just told the truth and they thought it was hell." Harry Truman)
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA
Unfortunately, yes they do.

It wasn't presented to them as an illegal Ponzi scheme, when the Feds first began confiscating taxes from their earned incomes, but that's really what it was.(and is)

There was no separate account for the working persons SSAN tax money, so their duly elected officials spent it. Every cent of it.
And “they” let them do it.

And “they” will now be robbed again.SCOTUS has already ruled the Feds can make any changes they want too with SSAN monies. Payments can go up, as it has for years, or they can be cut, and they will be, soon.

It's ugly, unfair and totally despicable, but it's what IS going to happen.

15 posted on 12/31/2012 4:24:42 PM PST by sarasmom
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To: ProudFossil

When the takers number greater than 90%, somebody’s going to be forced to work.
It won’t be slavery cuz they won’t be black.


16 posted on 12/31/2012 4:28:29 PM PST by MrBambaLaMamba (This Message Contains Privileged Attorney-Client Communications)
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To: ProudFossil

The average taxpayer has no clue how their taxdollars are actually spent. Case in point: A couple that lives not far from me has four children age 3,7,9 and 13. After numerous stays in jail for drug abuse, several taxpayer funded re-re-rehabs and taxpayer funded medication and mental health services; the father was sent to prison for burlary. He now resides in a minimum security prison where he is fed, clothed, entertained and kept healthy with taxpayer dollars. Meanwhile, the mother an her four children receive a monthly check, free healthcare, food stamps and government subsidized housing. (Free daycare too but Mom isn’t required to work to use it.) They don’t wear shabby clothes, eat cheap food or do without movies and electronic devices. They somehow manage to have the very best; many things I can’t afford for my own grandchildren and neither can my daughter and son-in-law who works long hours to provide for his family with no monetary help and he pays lots of taxes.

Every year at tax time, this mother receives several thousand dollars because of the children. The money is used for vacations, designer clothing and a down payment on a late model vehicle which is driven for several months before it’s repossessed. No worries. Transportation to medical appointments and necessary business is provided by the State.

The then twelve-year-old daughter was put on free birth control last summer. It must have been too complicated to use because she is now five months pregnant. Her Mother has refused tubal ligation and her fifth child will most likely arrive sometime after the imprisoned father is allowed conjugal visits. This family is happy, healthy and perfectly satisfied with their lives. If they have any idea where their livelihood comes from they don’t seem to care. The mother’s brother, who lives with them, is an alcoholic and lost his job over two years ago. He has continued to drink and dry out on unemployment and went seamlessly it appears from unemployment to public assistance. If this mother wasn’t very forthcoming and talkative about where their things come from, I might think they were middle income or had a generous trust fund.

You can flame me and call me unfeeling all you want. This Welfare State is wrong. I do feel immense sorrow for these people in their millions when there is no more money to provide for them. At the rate their numbers are increasing, that won’t be long. At least, when and if the collapse occurs, my family knows how to survive. We know how. They don’t.


17 posted on 12/31/2012 4:29:59 PM PST by Aleya2Fairlie
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To: sarasmom
Payments can go up, as it has for years, or they can be cut, and they will be, soon.

Nope. That is not going to happen. Instead, an insidious and crushing tax will be imposed on everyone; rich and poor. It will actually affect the poor the most, even those who don't work, although it will also disproportionately penalize those who have saved and invested. The tax will be invisible, and it will allow politicians to continue to claim that "not one penny of anyone's Social Security has been cut."

The tax is called debt monetization. Get ready for Russia in the late 1980's.

18 posted on 12/31/2012 4:44:21 PM PST by FredZarguna (Cryin' won't help ya, prayin' won't do ya no good. When the levee breaks, momma you got to move.)
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To: altsehastiin

Let’s all agree not to dump on the retirees, please. You will be there someday yourself.


19 posted on 12/31/2012 4:55:01 PM PST by Ciexyz
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To: Ciexyz

Look, I get weary of trying to explain to self-styled “conservatives” what the brutal truth of our financial situation is when I hear this “let’s not bash retirees.”

The fact is that Flemming v. Nestor was decided in 1960. That is to say, the US Supreme Court informed voters that Social Security was not a pension, that people who put money into SS were owed nothing, had NO property right in their “contributions” etc - in 1960.

Anyone after 1960 who believed that because they put something into Social Security they were OWED something back out of it... well, all I can say is that they didn’t spend enough time learning how their government actually worked.


20 posted on 12/31/2012 5:02:25 PM PST by NVDave
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To: FredZarguna

Our friendly Federal Reserve has been in the ‘debt monetization’ business for 99 years now. What worries me is when Big Brother gets around to ‘wealth confiscation’. That’s when it’ll really get ugly. And I wouldn’t put it past our commies in high places to go for it.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/03/confiscate_americans_wealth_to.html


21 posted on 12/31/2012 5:11:47 PM PST by shove_it (the 0bama regime are the people Huxley, Orwell and Rand warned us about)
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To: sarasmom

The GOP has long been derided as the “party of grumpy old (white) men”. Now, it seems you even want to piss off that demographic. Way to build a winning coalition.


22 posted on 12/31/2012 5:18:47 PM PST by USFRIENDINVICTORIA (Sometimes a "/sarc" tag would just insult the reader.)
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To: ProudFossil

At least Arizona isn’t on the list.

the five strongest states, in descending order, are: North Dakota, Nebraska, Utah, South Dakota and Virginia.


23 posted on 12/31/2012 5:29:44 PM PST by SandRat (Duty - Honor - Country! What else needs said?)
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To: NVDave

I appreciate your thoughtful reply. As a retiree, I must respectfully disagree with you. Since I have already made my point, I will step aside for others to continue the discussion.


24 posted on 12/31/2012 5:49:49 PM PST by Ciexyz
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA

You may be very happy with a large coalition of the self-deluded.Not me.
Are you a RINO GOP operative or a registered Democrat?

Or are you just a random, deluded foreigner cackling at the downfall of the USA, while your own nation crashes and burns?


25 posted on 12/31/2012 5:58:29 PM PST by sarasmom
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
Until the corporate tax rate gets dramatically cut you'll continue to see jobs leaving the United States.


26 posted on 12/31/2012 7:39:20 PM PST by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro can't pass E-verify)
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To: SharpRightTurn
The host can only support so many parasites before dying. The leftist parasites don’t seem to be able to comprehend that basic fact. Logic is not a strong suit among leftists; they emote, not think.

They care not that the cow is dying. They cannot think ahead to the day the flow of milk shuts down and there's not enough steaks for them to have a decent last meal. They're so like Zero and politicians in general - so used to playing with other peoples' money that thay have truly lost sight of reality.

27 posted on 01/01/2013 4:57:52 AM PST by trebb (Allies no longer trust us. Enemies no longer fear us.)
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To: sarasmom
Here I thought we were debating substance. If your only response is argumentum ad hominem, then there is no substance to your arguments.
28 posted on 01/01/2013 2:44:03 PM PST by USFRIENDINVICTORIA (Sometimes a "/sarc" tag would just insult the reader.)
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