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13 officers who shot, killed 2 unarmed suspects have varied personnel records
The Plain Dealer ^ | 5 Jan 2013 | Brandon Blackwell

Posted on 01/05/2013 9:19:43 PM PST by smokingfrog

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- One of the Cleveland police officers involved in the Nov. 29 police chase that ended with two suspects dead fumbled a 2011 traffic stop so badly that the department suggested video of the incident be used to teach other officers what not to do. Recently released personnel files show that the 13 officers who shot at Timothy Russell, 43, and Malissa Williams, 30, when the chase ended in East Cleveland range from highly commended to narrowly hirable.

A few have come under gunfire while performing their duties, and some had shot at suspects before.

(Excerpt) Read more at cleveland.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: banglist; donutwatch
Police chase video at link.

Never-seen Cleveland police pursuit video

1 posted on 01/05/2013 9:19:49 PM PST by smokingfrog
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To: smokingfrog

Ordinarily I’ll back a LEO, but ... uh uhhh ... not THIS one.


2 posted on 01/05/2013 9:34:38 PM PST by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: smokingfrog

Unreal. 51 police cars, 137 shots. It’s like a re-run of The Blues Brothers, except two people were shot 20 times each. I wonder if the cops weren’t on bath salts.


3 posted on 01/05/2013 9:42:14 PM PST by Amberdawn
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To: smokingfrog

Why were the suspects fleeing in the first place? Either I missed it, or the article didn’t mention it. The police make mistakes, but running from them is just plain stupid. Even if you’re a minority afraid of police brutality. The simple fact is it’s going to go far, far worse for you if you don’t cooperate. I’d rather have a broken arm and/or my face smashed against the pavement than be shot 23 (or 24) times.


4 posted on 01/05/2013 9:55:53 PM PST by CitizenUSA (Why celebrate evil? Evil is easy. Good is the goal worth striving for.)
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To: CitizenUSA

Police said shots were heard or fired when the car first passed by them.


5 posted on 01/05/2013 10:05:47 PM PST by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: Amberdawn

You beat me to it. The Blues Brother is what I thought of too.


6 posted on 01/05/2013 10:05:47 PM PST by BBell (And Now for Something Completely Different)
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To: Amberdawn

News video mentions Blues Brothers too.

http://on.wkyc.com/Up70S0


7 posted on 01/05/2013 10:07:11 PM PST by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: smokingfrog

The police were apparently firing at the vehicle during the pursuit. I think that’s incredibly stupid. Same thing with the pursuit itself. Why would the police risk hurting innocents in the pursuit of the two suspects? The Blues Bros. style pursuit was more hazardous to the community than two unarmed suspects. Unfortunately, I don’t know the complete story.

If the police thought the suspects were highly armed robbers prepared to kill or be killed, then that might warrant such a pursuit. However, I don’t see how that could be the case here, because the suspects were unarmed. It would be informative to know what triggered the pursuit in the first place. Was it a traffic stop gone wrong or subsequent to a violent crime?


8 posted on 01/05/2013 10:12:20 PM PST by CitizenUSA (Why celebrate evil? Evil is easy. Good is the goal worth striving for.)
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To: smokingfrog

Don’t know the details of this cited incident but Cleveland has been a shit-hole for law enforcement officers since black marxist Amhed/Evans started shooting them in the 1970’s. (Believed his name was actually Fred Evans and adopted a Black Muslim name).

Also, in the officers’ records listed by the writer, a lot of them got shot or shot out over the years. No wonder they are a little edgy when hearing reports of possibly armed suspects.

Refresher training is always good just to keep one sharp. In the above cited case, let the investigation run its course. Will be interesting to know if anything contraband was in the fleeing peoples’ car.


9 posted on 01/05/2013 10:13:45 PM PST by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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To: Amberdawn

I’m afraid I don’t quite get the complaints about the number of times someone gets shot. It has similarities to the notion that cops should “shoot to wound” rather than shoot to kill.

A cop (or anybody else, FTM) should not open fire on a human being unless they have decided to kill him, hopefully with that decision justified by the facts. Once the decision to kill has been made, it seems reasonable to make sure the killing takes place by using as much lead as necessary, or more.

I have no idea whether this case was justified or not. The cops claim the guy tried to use his car as a lethal weapon, which it most certainly is, and that generally constitutes justification for shooting.

A few years back here in FL a guy gunned down a couple of cops, then hid for a day or two in the woods. When the cops finally found him he was shot something like 76 times. When the MSM indignantly asked the sheriff why he was shot 76 times, he responded, “We ran out of ammo. Next question.”


10 posted on 01/05/2013 10:14:17 PM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: smokingfrog

LOL!
Looks like a scene from Smokey and the Bandit!


11 posted on 01/05/2013 10:15:32 PM PST by RandallFlagg ("Liberalism is about as progressive as CANCER" -Alfonzo Rachel)
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To: Sherman Logan

If the first shot is justified, the rest don’t matter.


12 posted on 01/05/2013 10:30:24 PM PST by markoman (The man with the rubber glove was....surprisingly gentle.)
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To: knarf

I guess they should have pulled over and stopped. Instead they tried to run over a cop. Two less criminals eating free food and making drug deals on their free Obama phones. I like the happy ending myself.

Where’s the dog in the story? Did the police manage to shoot a stray or two at least.


13 posted on 01/05/2013 10:35:21 PM PST by wrencher
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To: Sherman Logan

I understand the need to use lethal force to get the job done, but 51 cop cars? How many officers were at the scene shooting? I’d hate to be caught in THAT crossfire.


14 posted on 01/05/2013 11:51:19 PM PST by Amberdawn
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To: Sherman Logan

It wouldn’t be an issue but when you shoot in self-defense, the prosecutor gets to say “Why did you shoot the “victim” 26 times. You shot him 13 times reloaded, then shot him another 13 times. How can you say you were in fear for your life and then shot him 26 times?”

So I say, what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. I don’t care if the police shoot a perp 7 zillion times. I just want the law to be consistent. If the cops get a pass for shooting a “suspect” a bazillion times, then a CCW holder should get an EQUAL pass for shooting a perp in his house a bazillion times.

But you know the massive double standard that let’s a cop off for doing something a CCW holder gets prosecuted or convicted for. That is my only beef.


15 posted on 01/06/2013 12:03:45 AM PST by Freedom_Is_Not_Free (Free goodies for all -- Freedom for none.)
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To: Freedom_Is_Not_Free

Good points.


16 posted on 01/06/2013 12:08:39 AM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: wrencher
I didn't read the story, just the headline and watched the video.

But does it matter?

overkill is a correct word here.

17 posted on 01/06/2013 12:44:30 AM PST by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: CitizenUSA
In Michigan It is illegal for a law enforcement officer to discharge their weapon from a moving vehicle. Many othe states limit it to firing at the tires to disable the vehicle only. with the invention of spike strips you don't even see that much anymore. Sounds like Cleveland PD has some remedial training issues.

CC

18 posted on 01/06/2013 2:05:44 AM PST by Celtic Conservative
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To: CitizenUSA
In Michigan It is illegal for a law enforcement officer to discharge their weapon from a moving vehicle. Many othe states limit it to firing at the tires to disable the vehicle only. with the invention of spike strips you don't even see that much anymore. Sounds like Cleveland PD has some remedial training issues.

CC

19 posted on 01/06/2013 2:07:21 AM PST by Celtic Conservative
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To: Celtic Conservative

Well folks. It’s the pack syndrome.

Get that many guys all hyped up on adrenaline and when one fires a shot they all open up.

It is no different than when dogs act together in a pack.

One dog will walk away, maybe two will but get them in a pack and they all attack whatever the first one attacks.

We have seen it in street gangs also.


20 posted on 01/06/2013 4:31:03 AM PST by Venturer
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To: smokingfrog

Re link on post 1.

That news gal is a hottie !!

Okay, back to the serious stuff ...


21 posted on 01/06/2013 4:45:37 AM PST by Dartman
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22 posted on 01/06/2013 9:17:13 AM PST by RedMDer (Those that believe in gun free zones should put GUN FREE ZONE on their property and persons.)
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To: Freedom_Is_Not_Free

I think once you get a home intruder down all you need to do is put a couple in his head.
Ammo ain’t cheap these days.
The cops’ ammo is paid for by the department, ie., the taxpayers, so they can waste all they want.


23 posted on 01/06/2013 9:29:46 AM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: Lancey Howard

Indeed, it isn’t their money, so why should they care when they let the bullets fly?

Perhaps if officers began buying their bullets out of their own salary, as every other law-abiding citizen does, they would be less apt to point and shoot as a first recourse.


24 posted on 01/07/2013 5:47:51 AM PST by Altariel ("Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!")
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To: Altariel

Yep, they’d get more efficient and use head/throat shots.


25 posted on 01/07/2013 8:22:55 AM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: Lancey Howard

Perhaps, but if they weren’t motivated to train in marksmanship before, I am unconvinced that said change, in and of itself, would encourage widespread marksmanship practice.


26 posted on 01/08/2013 11:56:20 AM PST by Altariel ("Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!")
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