Skip to comments.Eleven Minutes and 2.3 Miles Away Equals 26 Dead
Posted on 01/06/2013 8:17:13 AM PST by Kaslin
Following NRA spokesman Wayne LaPierre's call for placing trained armed guards in each of the nation's public schools, gun control advocates went on the attack and refused to give the idea any meaningful consideration. We thought it might help to review the timeline of the shootings on 14 December 2012 to see if it might be a good idea.
|9:30:00 AM:||Classes begin at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut.|
|9:35:53 AM:||First known dispatch call - 911 Dispatch: "Sandy Hook School, Caller's indicated she thinks someone is shooting in the building."|
|9:36:15 AM:||Shooting continues - Dispatch: "The individual I have on the phone is continuing to hear what he believes to be gun shots."|
|9:38:10 AM:||Pause in shooting - "The shooting appears to have stopped. The school is in lock down."|
|9:38:50 AM:||Police call for SWAT team - "We'll stage up the SWAT and go from there."|
|9:40:30 AM:||Reports of shots fired - "Shooter's apparently still shooting in office area. Dickerson Drive."|
|9:40:55 AM:||Connecticut State Police receive call and begin sending emergency units from western part of the state - "Troop 8 personnel, take Exit 10, left on 34, turn on Riverside Drive. Make sure you have your vests on."|
|9:43:45 AM:||Female confirmed shot - Dispatch: "We have one female in Room 1 who has gunshot wound to the foot."|
|~9:45 AM:||First responders/SWAT team arrive - begin an "active shooter search, checking every door, crack and crevice."|
|9:46:20 AM:||Another report of person shot - Dispatch: "We've got an injured person in Room 9 with numerous gunshot wounds."|
|9:49:05 AM:||Shooting finally stops approximately around 9:46 AM - "Negative on description. Shots were fired about three minutes ago."|
|9:53:25 AM:||Suspect reported down - "Newtown's reporting one suspect down. The Building has now been cleared."|
|9:55:25 AM:||Weapons report - "Be advised, we have multiple weapons. One rifle and a shotgun."|
|9:57:25 AM:||Police notice to officers responding to call in plain clothes - "Any plain clothes responding, make sure you have you raid gear on, your raid gear on."|
|10:00:15 AM:||Police complete search for any other potential suspects - "Ask the custodian, get a team up on the roof and clear the roof."|
As best as we can tell from the timeline of the event, it took roughly 11 minutes for the first responders and police SWAT team to arrive at the school after the event began, after traveling the 2.3 miles to reach the school from the Newtown police station - a trip that in ordinary conditions would take approximately 7 minutes, not counting the time needed to get prepared to deal with the event. Their arrival precipitated the end of the event, as the suspect, Ryan Lanza, committed suicide shortly after realizing that armed police had arrived and were closing in on him.
During those eleven minutes before the police arrived and finally closed in on his position, Lanza was completely unopposed by any armed individual, using the time to fire over a hundred rounds to kill 26 people - 6 adults and 20 children.
Would placing trained armed guards or police officers in the nation's public schools then really be so unreasonable? Shouldn't public officials have a special obligation to ensure the safety of our children when they are compelled to be placed in their care? Can there possibly be a good reason why the pro-gun control Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence's extensive 41 page-long list of all on and off-school campus shooting incidents since 31 January 1997 contains just one mention of any kind of security guard (for a 22-year old student offender, Law Thien Huynh, who first argued with, then killed security guard training class instructor Roberto Herrera, who had negatively criticized Huynh on previous occasions)?
Or is it good enough for public officials to place that kind of protection some eleven minutes and 2.3 miles away from the children in their care?
“When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.”
Armed guards are good enough for the Obama daughters’ school............
“Dial 911 and die...”
Yes, placing unionized Federally funded police on fat retirements in schools is a bad idea. Teaching school personnel in armed defense (and dispelling much liberal propaganda thereby) is a good idea. Offering preferential hiring to ex-military people with combat experience to teach is a good idea.
Nothing illustrates that fact more than this incident. Even at code blue, lights and sirens, they took 11 minutes to get there. I'm sure that they put their vest on and grabbed their shotgun before heading down the road so figure a couple of minutes for preparation. But still, unless posted on site, it takes time to get there.
Our town has an average ten minutes and change for a code three response. Safety officer at a more rural HS near my house was told by county sheriff that it could be up to twenty minutes to get first LEO on scene if they called... BTW, my house is covered by same sheriffs dept. So myself, my neighbors, we are basically on our own. We are ready.
Where I live in Washington state it would take a deputy forty-five minutes to get to our place. If he’s not busy elsewhere.
“Yes, placing unionized Federally funded police on fat retirements in schools is a bad idea. Teaching school personnel in armed defense (and dispelling much liberal propaganda thereby) is a good idea. Offering preferential hiring to ex-military people with combat experience to teach is a good idea.”
I agree with the reasoning behind your arguments, but I also believe (prior to this shooting) if you had made the offer to train and equip the teachers and staff at the Sandy Hook elementary with firearms — that not a single one there would have taken up the offer.
In the majority of the “liberal areas”, I wouldn’t be surprised to find the “in-school sentiment” regarding such proposals to be similar.
I realize it’s different in places like Texas or Utah.
But that’s the way it is in the “deep blue” areas...
So much for active shooter response from every LEO.....
First patrolman on scene should have an EBR as a basic long gun and rush to the sound of gunfire where schools are concerned. That’s the way we trained after the columbine fiasco.
First responders not SWAT ! With regards to active shooter in a school your not trying to contain and capture the shooter your trying to SAVE children and drive the bastard away from those kids by engaging the shooter as fast as possible.
Each patrol vehicle should have a semi-auto M4gery w light and redi-mag w sling as basic issue long gun.
That said a school employee with a concealed sidearm could have distracted , disrupted his plan or killed the shooter before he conducted wholesale slaughter of children.
Left has no problem visiting a school with their own armed security detail yet do not want those children protected in same manner as they are....
Vote people.... You miss elections of ANY kind your eligible to participate in an don’t ...your part of the problem.
Vote these SOB’s back to the ice age.... Vote with your dollars between elections. Starve the beast.
My opinion ....
I live in Santa Cruz County, California, so one should think I would know that. Hence the line, "and dispelling much liberal propaganda thereby."
The simple fix is, as I suggested, offering preferential hiring to ex military to be teachers and administrators. The combined weight of the liability for doing nothing and the cost of creating yet another administrative position on a full pension, complete with staffing problems accommodating days off duty for target practice and training, is a nightmare, especially in rural areas.
IMO, the only true hero of the Newtown disaster was the principal who threw her unarmed body at that creep, and died. Anybody with the guts to do that would have used a weapon. The real (and only affordable) answer is training and arming adults in the schools, hopefully with a psychological screening to cull the all-too-likely and all-too-common mentally unfit employees in public schools. Just think: A mass refusal by teachers to train could induce a few mass-layoffs! :-) I can dream, can't I?
I do wonder about the mental fitness of many in our nation's government owned and run prison-like schools. Have you had the opportunity to read some of the posts from the government school defenders, many of whom are government school teachers?
I was a deputy sheriff .... We trained and planned / responded as I stated .... Active shooter, especially a school.... Never wait, inform dispatch as to where your making entry, leave your siren and lights blasting, gun up and start kicking doors , triple tap center mass anyone that refuses to drop their weapon.
Very simple, noise, run and gun to stop the threat or make them try an escape their killing ground
Anything less is bullshit as you state. PC be damned. Even sheep need sheepdogs.
Stay safe buddy... Hope yer well.
Can't say as I've been that lucky, seeing as to me that's akin to asking me if I've "had the opportunity" to contract an infectious disease. Yuck.
Yes, I have considered the possibility of schools conducting an armed refusal of access by parents to their children. After all, children in Cuba have to surrender their kids, so why shouldn't things be "equal" here in the USA? Yeah, we'll get the UN right on that one...Or we could have some eco-nutball obsessed with global overpopulation offing the extra "breeders," or some gay "man" blowing away a teaser for refusing his "loving" advances... Etc.
Yep, been there, wondering what those rainbow psychotics in charge of our institutions of higher brainwashing would do next if we armed them. Don't like it a bit. Don't like cops there either. Don't like public schools one bit either, but then, you know that.
So, to me, this is a stop gap measure to keep the kids "safer" while the public goes through the slow realization that "socializing" children will never work. Hopefully we don't go bankrupt first.
Liberals (e.g., gun control advocates) are willing to try anything, regardless of the expense, except something that might actually work.
I wish it was that way in California, but from what I've seen here lately, I'm not at all hopeful. It seems to take two cruisers to make a simple traffic stop these days, even in suburbia.
When did elementary school begin at 9:30am. I seem to remember having to be at school at 8:00am.
instead of placing armed guards in locations crazy people may shoot up...
how about putting armed guards around crazy people?
If you noticed the author got also the name of the killer wrong. Ryan Lanza was the 24 year old brother of the shooter Adam Lanza 20
No the answer is to ban high capacity magazines because after all how many ten round magazines could he go through in 11 minutes while facing children and unarmed teachers?
Honestly, it sounds like a response that was not violent or fast enough. 2.3 miles on rural roads should have taken no more than 2 minutes, then it should be cops with guns rushing straight in.
Instead, we read they saw him down a hall, and didn’t engage him because he was “too far away”. Then he went into a classroom, killed a bunch of kids, then shot himself.
A more aggressive response might have saved those last ones.
Sounds like a variation of the “wait for swat mentality”.
The cops should have attacked with the aggression that they would have if they thought their child was in that school. Nothing less.
2.3 miles away. At the stately speed of 60mph, that should take a few seconds more than 2 minutes. At cop speed (double the speed limit + 10) that drive should have taken a bit over a minute.
No matter what they say, even if sitting in a restauraunt when the call came in, there should have been effective fire on the bad guy inside of 4 minutes, 5 tops. 11 is inexcusable.
11 minutes is also a red herring. That is the time of a cop arriving, calling for swat, sneaking close, and watching the retard until he shot himself. Police action didn’t impede or stop his rampage in any way. Thats just just a fact.
Officer safety is THE most important thinmg these days.
I see more a more traffic stops with two police SUVs.
Yes, it would certainly be unfortunate if I, a mediocre shot at best, but counting on adrenalin, could “bother” or distract the shooter with 18 shots. 18 shots that could give a classroom time to evacuate. 18 shots that could hold the shooter at bay until the experts show up. (this is not a dis of the cops...I live in a big county, I know how long it takes to get to the hinterlands).
Most of you will say “Well, for cripes sake, if ya can’t take ‘em out with 18, WTH are ya doing there?” I’m realistic about my skills. I know that, under pressure, I do what needs to be done. I also know that when “it”...whatever “it” is, is over, I fall apart. So I am realistic enough to say that I would hope that I would do the zipper and get the job done, I KNOW I could at least distract the shooter.
Why on earth should I not have a reasonable amount of ammo to change the outcome?
Tooth and Claw if you are in a situation like this fight with all you got, give em hell and if you get a chance put em there. Uncle Sam taught me that!
Precisely. In deep blue areas, the idea of having on hand at home or on your person a weapon of any kind to defend yourself is viewed as a sign of paranoia or some other kind of mental problem. That's just the culture there.
When I patrolled in the late 80s I once literally ran from the dinner table and was out of the parking lot with lights and siren in probably 15 seconds after getting the dispatch of a child in trouble in the water;luckily other older children had already got the victim out during the couple minutes it took to get there.He had suffered a seizure while swimming.He recovered.
Or there was the time the house window blew out right beside me as I hammered the door of the burning home,at THAT point I abandoned the effort because no one could have survived the inferno inside.Turned out,no one was home,not even the pet dogs which were usually inside.
I fear today’s officers are TOO risk-averse and too indoctrinated in PC.
Well...That’s a good way to put it. ( sitting here laughing!)
The view that having a firearm to defend yourself is a sign of paranoia seems mostly an urban view which is ironic considering the likelihood of crime there.
The mandate by OSHA that there be no guns in order the workplace be “safe” means companies routinely bar firearms (and ALL weapons) even from being in the employees vehicles in the parking lot.
THe anti-self-defense crowd seldom miss a trick in disarming America.
And innocents will continue to die just as the liberals slaughter a million unborn children and the futire of America every year.
And they'll give you a $700 ticket if you don't cut over a lane or slam on your brakes at 70 mph if you go past them when they're sitting on the shoulder.
I call them the Death Eaters.
These are the people who defend abortion, defend leaving children and other citizens defenseless against madmen, and promote godless government schooling where souls are lobotomized.
By the way....Government teachers were the single largest occupational group at the 2000 Democrat convention. Do you remember the pro-abortion buttons? Do you remember them cheering Clinton the philanderer and rapist as he made his walk through the bowels of the convention center?
Ditto for the 2012 convention. Teachers were the single largest occupational group at the abortion-fest. These are the people who cheered, “NO!” to God! THREE TIMES! * Each time louder.
These government teachers are the people who support shoving scissors into the brains of partially born infants, scrambling their brains, and sucking the gelatinous mass into surgical suction jars!
These are the people teaching our nation's children!!!!!
I wonder if they serve cookies and milk with that?
Am I the only one that counts NINE minutes on that timeline? From when dispacth is called, until SWAT teams arrive?
Doesn’t change the point.... but, good to be accurate.
North Carolina just recently offered free CC classes for all teachers. The classes all filled up within minutes.
Based on my limited experience in Texas and Maryland, it takes the Police 20 to 30 minutes to respond to your call and arrive at the scene. I had an abusive drunk come into my yard. I called the Police. They arrived after he had walked out of sight down the road. They never did catch him.
Truly When seconds count the Police are minutes away.
Note: If you live in the country, there may be a jurisdiction problem between county and state police and the sheriff. You have to call around to see who will respond.
I wonder what the nation’s response would have been if one of the teachers or a student had used an illegal concealed weapon and had killed the assailant after he had killed 5-6 kids.
At my department we have stressed active shooter training for years. My last range training at the end of November was an active shooter scenario. We used to be taught to assemble the first four officers on scene into a small fireteam and make entry. We have changed that to first two officers on scene. If you arrive alone and you hear shooting, you are to make entry and attempt to locate the suspect and put him down. You only wait for the next officer if you arrive and no active shooting is occuring. At the last shooter training, it was arrive on scene solo, shooting is ongoing....I made entry and had to clear the building alone...certainly makes you think about how far some departments have come since Columbine....
My objection to the NRA proposal is that it’s inadequate. If a lunatic like Lanza plans to bring serious weapons to a school and he knows there’s a single armed guard there, who would be his first victim, easily dispatched, before he continues on to the teachers/children?
I don’t think any such lunatic should have the first clue about how many people are or are not armed at his target location.
Sitting in church on Christmas Eve, I got to wondering what there was to stop some attention-seeking lunatic from coming in and shooting up a bunch of worshipers at Christmas Midnight Mass. Well, among other things, we’re in Virginia with concealed weapon permits. Sitting there, I had no idea how many people were carrying. Nor would any potential perp. S/he might be able to take out a large number of people, or be stopped immediately before reaching the sought body count and attendant celebrity. But at least, unlike the public schools, theaters, and locations in “gun free zones’ and certain states, we were not just sitting ducks.
we need to propose school vouchers so parents can decide where they want too send their kids..safe schools not just for the rich but middle class too.
Oh, I don't know. Spiking pensions is certainly up there. They also like spending time in the court room instead of on the street. More drill time for practice raids is a biggie. Meetings, lots of meetings...
One thing is certain: "To Protect and Serve" is now WAY down the list.
That's local news. Did you hear that Republicans are running us over the Fiscal Cliff?
don’t worry about your acuracy I recall reading about an incident, cop on one side of car bad guy on other 7 feet away both emptied their guns over 20 rounds neither person hit...of course more ammo will help, first to run out of ammo gives the other guy time to relax a little, and squeeze the trigger...hopefully its it bad guy who runs out first, but we know silly magazine capacity laws are not going to stop him from carrying what he wants.
And some didn’t change sadly ..... Still too focused on just catching the bad guy versus stopping the “mass” killing / slaughter per se....
Hope yer well, give em hell !
Stay safe !
Which is why the backup mags are on backorder, and the changing of mags *quickly* needs to be worked on.
“I do wonder about the mental fitness of many in our nation’s government owned and run prison-like schools.”
I do wonder about the mental fitness of many in our school’s government owned and run prison-like NATION! I’m very serious, it is very stressful to me and I have a part time job doing telephone work from my home. I have been talking to a lot of people who seem to be just about at the end of their rope. I don’t wonder at all WHY they are so stressed.
The time line issue has been utterly suppressed by the MSM.
“Where I live in Washington state it would take a deputy forty-five minutes to get to our place. If hes not busy elsewhere.”
I don’t doubt it at all. Probably thirty or more years ago I called the Sheriff’s department after midnight for something, I can’t remember exactly what but I was not in immediate danger. The thing I will remember until I die is that on that occasion the woman who answered the phone actually told me, “The Sheriff’s department is closed for the night.” I still have not figured that out. I would not be surprised if I called them in an emergency and they never showed up at any time. The anti-gun fools who say just call the cops and you don’t need a gun are idiots beyond the limits of idiocy. You can’t depend on the police unless you have them living in your house and even then you couldn’t be too confident. As a child I was fortunate enough to have an uncle who was a deputy sheriff who dropped by now and then but if we had needed to call him in an emergency he might easily have been half an hour away even though we lived in the center of the county.
“Precisely. In deep blue areas, the idea of having on hand at home or on your person a weapon of any kind to defend yourself is viewed as a sign of paranoia or some other kind of mental problem. That’s just the culture there.”
Yeah, it’s amazing what some people have for a mind, the same ones who think you are paranoid to think you might need a gun to defend yourself think they need to be defended from your having a gun and the same people would say you are crazy not to have life insurance even though it is really death insurance and does no one any good until you are dead. They would also say that you need to have fire alarms and extinguishers in your house even though you are more likely to have a burglary than a fire.
The sheriff in a town (Shelton) down the road (45miles) said he had to lay off some deputies and that homeowners should arm up. Or words to that effect. The closest sheriff department is 45 miles in either direction.