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Praying Hitler in ex-Warsaw ghetto sparks emotion
Associated Press ^ | Fri, Dec 28, 2012 | VANESSA GERA

Posted on 01/07/2013 3:33:09 PM PST by DManA

WARSAW, Poland (AP) — A statue of Adolf Hitler praying on his knees is on display in the former Warsaw Ghetto, the place where so many Jews were killed or sent to their deaths by Hitler's regime, and it is provoking mixed reactions.

(Excerpt) Read more at omg.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS:
I honestly don't know what to make of this one.
1 posted on 01/07/2013 3:33:13 PM PST by DManA
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To: DManA

I don’t think Hitler had any God we would recognize, this whole thing sounds like someones brainfart


2 posted on 01/07/2013 3:35:14 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: GeronL

My first impression was the sculptor was perpetuating the lie that Hitler was a Christian. But maybe the figure is praying to Satan.


3 posted on 01/07/2013 3:39:11 PM PST by DManA
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To: DManA

Could make a urinal out of it. Art with function. Sort of a win-win.


4 posted on 01/07/2013 3:40:21 PM PST by artichokegrower
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To: GeronL

The top level nazis were mostly humanists or pagans and Hitler was no exception. I think it was Heinrich Himmler who called Christianity a plague that needed to be wiped out.


5 posted on 01/07/2013 3:42:28 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: DManA
Hitler's concentration camps were all over Europe but the death camps were all in Poland.

The reason? the Poles were as antisemitic as the Nazis so Hitler knew the Jew massacres would proceed without serious hindrance.

The Warsaw Jews were sent to Treblinka, the extermination camp with the fewest survivors even though their use of carbon monoxide gas was not as efficient as Zyklon B Treblinka still enjoyed the silence of a Jew hating populace.

Hitler praying before the Warsaw Ghetto?
Like Lanza praying before Sandy Hook...an insult, a profanity and a damn outrage to civilized thought!!!

6 posted on 01/07/2013 3:45:57 PM PST by Happy Rain ("1/1/13: The day the RINO GOP-e died--long live the TEA Party!!!")
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To: GeronL

Hitler was not Christian but “theistic” in an almost pagan sense. Many times he referred to his destiny being guided by “Providence.” It became more frequent after the events of 20 July 1944. He was clearly not referring to God. In an interesting side note, our own Fuhrer also refers to “Providence.”


7 posted on 01/07/2013 4:10:36 PM PST by henkster ("The people who count the votes decide everything." -Joseph Stalin)
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To: GeronL

I can’t tell anything from that photo.


8 posted on 01/07/2013 4:21:02 PM PST by Morris70
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To: Happy Rain

As a Polish born immigrant, with Austrian and German lineage added in, I find your lack of knowledge disturbing.


9 posted on 01/07/2013 5:04:12 PM PST by surchris (Once communist born, now a Liberal irritant.)
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To: Happy Rain
The death camps were located in Eastern Europe because that's where the Jews were.

Poland had the largest Jewish population and had a workable rail system so it was a natural location for the Nazi death camps.

Also, it was under direct Nazi domination so there was no need to worry about any collaborationist government not complying.

It's unfortunate that this Hitler puppet or statue is on display in Warsaw, but it has already appeared in New York and other cities around the world.

10 posted on 01/07/2013 5:08:00 PM PST by x
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To: GeronL

He was certainly anti-Christian, but I wouldn’t know whether he believed in God. In any case having him pray in the Warsaw ghetto makes no sense to me. Are the implying contrition on his part? Are they forcing him to appear sorry from beyond the grave and against his will as a sort of punishment? Or is he praying for help in reaching the “final solution”?


11 posted on 01/07/2013 5:33:14 PM PST by Tublecane
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To: cripplecreek

I wouldn’t call them pagans persay. Maybe some of the more devoted crackpots. But all their pet obsessions need to mean is that they fell in with the muddled fads of the day. Hitler was mad for Wagner, for instance, and much of his thought can be explained via the Wagner cult.

Not that Wagner was sui generis. He reflected the psuedo-intellectual currents of his time, as well.


12 posted on 01/07/2013 5:39:22 PM PST by Tublecane
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To: x

One of my great grandfathers was a Polish Jew who arrived here in 1912. Antisemitism was no more or less common in Poland than anywhere else in Europe.

I would say that the camps were there for lots of reasons that had nothing to do with Polish antisemitism real or imagined. Personally I think it had more to do with hiding the slaughter from western Europe.


13 posted on 01/07/2013 5:46:11 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Happy Rain

Did it ever occur to you that if the death camps were all in Poland it may have been because Jews were concetrated there? Or that they wanted to keep it secret from Germans? Or that they conquered Poland first thoroughly, thus didn’t have to fearocals as much and had more time to develop the more sophistacated process required for mass murder?

And since when were Poles the only anti-semites? What about Russia? The French helped round up Jews, though there were no death camps there.


14 posted on 01/07/2013 5:48:53 PM PST by Tublecane
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To: Tublecane

After detailing America’s war crimes against the Germans in WWII, maybe you should take your opinions and shove them up your ass.

Do us both a favor and impress someone else with your vast intelligence.


15 posted on 01/07/2013 5:49:53 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: cripplecreek

Oh, it’s you again. So not only is my opinion on unrestricted aerial warfare wrong, but I am not allowed to express judgement on anything else? Mass murder is that important to you (so long us doing it instead of the bad guys)?

By the way, it wasn’t just Germany. Japan, too, obviously, as well as everyone we’ve gone to war against since.


16 posted on 01/07/2013 5:55:44 PM PST by Tublecane
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To: surchris
So Auschwitz was in France.
17 posted on 01/07/2013 6:04:44 PM PST by Happy Rain ("1/1/13: The day the RINO GOP-e died--long live the TEA Party!!!")
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To: x
Jews from all over Western Europe were shipped to the death camps in Poland—it would, on should think, have been more efficacious to have at least one extermination facility even a few miles West of Poland...my statement stands.
18 posted on 01/07/2013 6:10:18 PM PST by Happy Rain ("1/1/13: The day the RINO GOP-e died--long live the TEA Party!!!")
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To: Tublecane
I reminded of the scene in “Schindler's List” where the Poles throw dung and cruel shouts of “Goodbye Jews!” as they are being herded into the concentration camp.

Do you really believe a Treblinka could have operated outside Paris, Antwerp or Rome?

19 posted on 01/07/2013 6:16:49 PM PST by Happy Rain ("1/1/13: The day the RINO GOP-e died--long live the TEA Party!!!")
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To: Happy Rain

You can say it would’ve been more efficacious, but I have no idea what you base that upon. It’s not as if shipping cost is the only concern. Mass murder has rather more complex considerations than selling widgets, ir whatever it is you’re comparing it to.


20 posted on 01/07/2013 6:23:00 PM PST by Tublecane
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To: Happy Rain

So this is based on remembering a scene from some movie? Have you never heard of Russian pogroms, for instance, or the Dreyfus affair? What about Germans themselves? They voted for Nazis.

“Do you really believe a Treblinka could have operated outside Paris, Antwerp, or Rome?”

Of course I do, though there were reasons Poland was better. Not your reason, but ones I’ve mentioned. If death camps couldn’t work there it’s certainly not because the populace wasn’t sufficiently racist.


21 posted on 01/07/2013 6:27:49 PM PST by Tublecane
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To: Happy Rain

I think it had a lot less to to with antisemitism in Poland than it had to do with hiding it from western Europe. After all, convincing the French to put them on a train for “relocation” is one thing convincing them to put them on a train headed for extermination is a whole different ball game.

Of all the combatants in that war, Russia would have had the least problem with the death camps.

As a nation and a people, Poland probably got the worst of that war from both the Nazis and the Russians. Both sides were conscripting their children as soldiers and slaves.Something like 17% of the civilian population of Poland was killed in WWII (5,620,000 to 5,820,000 people)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties


22 posted on 01/07/2013 6:28:23 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: GeronL

Hitler was his own god.

OTOH, Hitler’s regard for both Islam & the god worshipped by Muslims is also noteworthy.


23 posted on 01/07/2013 6:32:39 PM PST by elcid1970 ("The Second Amendment is more important than Islam.")
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To: Tublecane; Happy Rain; cripplecreek

I hate to say this but Happy Rain is right to some degree.

Anti-semitism in Poland and Ukraine was and still widespread.

As for Russian pogroms Tublecane talking about, check timeline and location of these events. Both Poland and Ukraine were parts of Russia at the time of pogroms. 90% of pogroms occured in either current Poland or Ukraine. 100% of other Russian pogroms occured in a places dominated by Ukrainian immigrants.

Despite many others their faults Russians are known for being race and gender blind. There might be some kitchen anti-semitism but it is a Ukrainian cultural input as well (all Russian anti-semitic N-words are of Ukrainian and Polish origin).

I don’t think Germans could run death camps in Russia, too. Being there was never comfortable for Germans to support military operations, let alone logistics for an enterprise like a death camp. Their lines on occupied territory were sabotaged on a daily basis by both leftover Soviet military and civilians.


24 posted on 01/07/2013 7:09:10 PM PST by cunning_fish
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To: cunning_fish
Despite many others their faults Russians are known for being race and gender blind.

LOL
25 posted on 01/07/2013 7:12:28 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: DManA

Now, now. I have a perfectly rational explanation for Hitler `praying.’
In the book `Steel Boats, Iron Hearts’ U-boat 505 crew member Hans Goebeler explained that a U-boat hit a mine while leaving the harbor at Lorient harbor, France as the boat attempted to enter the Bay of Biscayne.
Many of the crewmen were paralyzed, their backs broken because their legs were driven up into their spines by the force of the explosion.
Consequently all the crewmen were not only ordered to wear life jackets while still in the harbor, but to also kneel until they were `safely’ in the bay.
As can be seen, it appears that Herr Hitler was afraid of being blown up.
So the next question, the statue figure of `Schickelgruber’: Is he wearing a life jacket?


26 posted on 01/07/2013 7:53:53 PM PST by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: All armed conservatives.)
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To: Happy Rain
I reminded of the scene in “Schindler's List”

Oh, I see, if it's in a Hollywood entertainment vehicle then it must be true. Thank you for repeating word for word Soviet Communist propaganda. It's a thankless job, but somebody has to do it.

27 posted on 01/07/2013 9:22:29 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: cripplecreek

Himmler flirted with the idea of converting to Islam. He considered Christianity a religion for cowards, and that Islam was a religion that soldiers could understand.


28 posted on 01/07/2013 9:25:33 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: Happy Rain
Do you really believe a Treblinka could have operated outside Paris

Ever hear of Drancy?

29 posted on 01/07/2013 9:27:21 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: DManA

There are those who spread the Soviet propaganda out of conviction in the ideals of Communism or simply for remuneration. And then, there are others, Lenin’s “useful idiots”, who do it out of pure naivete and ignorance.

Do I even have to explain that the Soviet agents in the West presented the Politburo’s version of events and attitudes in Eastern Europe in order to affect the public opinion here in their favor and against those restless Poles and Ukrainians and the Baltics? I could go on and list all the lies of the Soviets that have become accepted in the U.S. as God’s facts, thanks to such sources as the New York Times and Communist historians at universities writing falsified history. Just look at the use of the word “Nazi” in our vernacular and avoidance of the word “Germans” when describing events of WWII, when a small segment of German population belonged to the National Socialist Party.

He who controls the language, controls the reality, my gay friends!


30 posted on 01/07/2013 9:36:10 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: DManA

There are those who spread the Soviet propaganda out of conviction in the ideals of Communism or simply for remuneration. And then, there are others, Lenin’s “useful idiots”, who do it out of pure naivete and ignorance.

Do I even have to explain that the Soviet agents in the West presented the Politburo’s version of events and attitudes in Eastern Europe in order to affect the public opinion here in their favor and against those restless Poles and Ukrainians and the Baltics? I could go on and list all the lies of the Soviets that have become accepted in the U.S. as God’s facts, thanks to such sources as the New York Times and Communist historians at universities writing falsified history. Just look at the use of the word “Nazi” in our vernacular and avoidance of the word “Germans” when describing events of WWII, when a small segment of German population belonged to the National Socialist Party.

He who controls the language, controls the reality, my gay friends!


31 posted on 01/07/2013 9:36:26 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: cripplecreek

>>>>
Despite many other their faults Russians are known for being race and gender blind.

LOL
<<<<

Well, it might be an opinion, but it doesn’t change other facts I mentioned.


32 posted on 01/08/2013 1:13:13 AM PST by cunning_fish
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To: Tublecane

As we always been told due to his current location he’s most likely praying for ice water.


33 posted on 01/08/2013 1:45:23 AM PST by Hillarys Gate Cult (Liberals make unrealistic demands on reality and reality doesn't oblige them.)
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To: Happy Rain
Plenty of Jews did die in facilities located to the west of Poland. And many more died in Eastern Europe without being sent to the camps.

In any case, Auschwitz was in the General Gouvernment, territory under direct German rule that had virtually been annexed by Germany and only a short distance from what had been Germany proper.

The prewar Jewish population of Europe was overwhelmingly East of Germany. It was not hard for the Germany to kill off much of the Western European Jewish population without establishing death camps in the West.

Also, the Germans may have shared the common idea that the East was already savage and that mass murder wouldn't have aroused any protest there, and would have in the West. As it was, aside from Denmark, mass deportations and imprisonment didn't arouse protests in the Wests.

When peoples live separately but side by side for centuries, relations can be complicated and difficult. Your oversimplifications, though, don't help untangle things.

34 posted on 01/08/2013 10:06:10 AM PST by x
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To: cunning_fish
90% of pogroms occurred in either current Poland or Ukraine.

Not actually true. First of all, you have to specify when. Jews were living in Poland and the Ukraine (formerly part of one state with Poland) for centuries before they lived in Russia (which excluded them from residence in most of the country) so whatever happened to Jews wouldn't take place in Russia "outside the pale."

Most of the Khmelnytsky pogroms took place in what's now the Ukraine. Most of the 19th and early 20th century pogroms also took place outside of what is now Poland. That's not to say that there wasn't violence or repression in what's now or what was Poland. There was. Just as there was in Germany or France or Britain or Spain.

Despite many others their faults Russians are known for being race and gender blind.

Would that that were true. It certainly wasn't true of the Romanovs. And weren't we all trying to "Save Soviet Jewry" just a little while ago?

I don’t think Germans could run death camps in Russia, too. Being there was never comfortable for Germans to support military operations, let alone logistics for an enterprise like a death camp.

Clearly. That was too close to the front lines and too disorganized. Most of those partisans, though, were in Belarus and Ukraine. You might give the Ukrainians and Belorussians some credit for that along with all the blame you cast around. As it was though, thousands -- hundreds of thousands -- of Jews were killed by the German Army and its auxiliaries on Soviet territory without ever seeing a death camp.

35 posted on 01/08/2013 10:12:21 AM PST by x
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To: Happy Rain
Like Lanza praying before Sandy Hook...

Also my first emotional reaction... and second... and third.

36 posted on 01/08/2013 10:19:05 AM PST by GOPJ (News anchor arrogance is a cover for ignorance. - - freeper ryan71)
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To: x
>>>>>> 90% of pogroms occurred in either current Poland or Ukraine. Not actually true. <<<<<< From Wiki: "Significant pogroms in the Russian Empire included the Odessa pogroms, Warsaw pogrom (1881), Kishinev pogrom (1903), Kiev Pogrom (1905), and Białystok pogrom (1906), and after the 1917 Russian Revolution, the Lwów pogrom (1918), and Kiev Pogroms (1919)." All of the above are either Poland or Ukraine (Moldova). >>>>> Clearly. That was too close to the front lines and too disorganized. Most of those partisans, though, were in Belarus and Ukraine. You might give the Ukrainians and Belorussians some credit for that along with all the blame you cast around. <<<<<< No blame at all. Initially, subject was an anti-semitism.
37 posted on 01/08/2013 10:58:08 AM PST by cunning_fish
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To: dfwgator

Though Drancy was the largest camp in France it was a transit camp and many thousands more perished in the DEATH camps they were sent to FROM Drancy so comparing the camp or France itself to the murder mills and Poland doesn’t wash.


38 posted on 01/08/2013 11:54:05 AM PST by Happy Rain ("1/1/13: The day the RINO GOP-e died--long live the TEA Party!!!")
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To: All
“Beyond the effects of the economic situation, the Jews of Poland were the object of outright anti-Semitism. It found expression in every social class and wherever social intercourse took place, and it grew especially virulent during the 1930s as a result of domestic developments and the influence of Nazi anti-Semitism from abroad. Nothing was done to halt the anti-Jewish riots or the assaults on Jewish property, synagogues, and persons. By the same token, anti-Semitism found its way into the country's economic, social, and cultural life. In 1921, for example, Jewish students composed 24.6 percent of the student population in Poland: by 1938 only one-third of this number remained. Similarly, it was not by chance that the number of Jews employed in industry was so small. For quite a while before Hitler's rise to power in neighboring Germany, the Polish government had aspired to purge the economy of Jews—beginning in those sectors controlled by the state through a system of economic concentration known as etatism. As a rule, Jewish workers could find jobs only with Jewish employers, and there were few Jewish industrialists. When Poland was hit by massive unemployment, the authorities instituted a system of welfare allowances from which most of the jobless Jews derived no benefit because they belonged to the lowest classification of laborers, who were not compensated for the loss of their livelihood. Thus the economic condition of the Jewish masses steadily declined. The eligibility of Jews to join the free professions was increasingly restricted, and in 1938 the legal profession was closed to them altogether. A quota was placed on the number of Jews permitted to study in Polish secondary schools, while the government ignored the commitment (stipulated by the Versailles treaty) {the victorious WWI allies tried in vain to persuade Poland to abandon it's historic anti-Semitism as a condition for statehood} to fund independent Jewish education...” it goes on and on.

—”The Holocaust” by Leni Yahil 1987 pages 189-190

The 1930s fascist oppression of the Jews in Poland was a one step behind copy of Nazi Germany. The SS Realtors looking for friendly country to construct mass murder industrial complexes knew where to look because even though anti-Semitism was common in 1930s Europe, Poland was enabler perfect.
Poland is a great country and Poles are a great people—what they did to help Reagan bring down the Evil Empire can never be over appreciated. BUT as far as the Holocaust is concerned, they sucked big time...no spin just fact.

39 posted on 01/08/2013 12:57:48 PM PST by Happy Rain ("Banning guns over Adam Lanza would be like banning speech over Bill Maher.")
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To: cunning_fish
I was thinking of the 1905 wave of violence, which largely bypassed Poland. Overall in the tsarist era, most of the pogroms occurred in what's now the Ukraine. Some happened in what was or is Poland. Some in Russia (Nizhny Novgorod, Simbirsk, Murom).

Given the Jews weren't allowed to live in most of Russia proper, it's not surprising that most of the pogroms occurred elsewhere where they did live. What you leave out, though, are the edicts of expulsion and the involvement of Tsarist authorities in instigating riots and pogroms. Take that into account and it adds up to a picture different from the one you paint.

40 posted on 01/08/2013 1:10:51 PM PST by x
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To: Happy Rain
There are things that are questionable in the quote you cite: that few Jews worked in industry and that there were few Jewish industrialists, for example.

There was prejudice against Jews and some of the governments acted upon it. But Poland was a poor country. There was also a more general move towards state industries and a depression at the time that had effects on society as a whole.

There were different parties and ideologies and sectors of the population with different attitudes, and not all govermnents pursued a single policy.

No one questions that Polish history in the 1930s was difficult and at times shameful, but your own claims and language are exaggerated and inflammatory. Most historians realize that things were more complicated than you claim.

41 posted on 01/08/2013 1:43:41 PM PST by x
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To: x
I quoted from an officially sanctioned by the State of Israel Holocaust historical record publication and you dissent with personal opinion...claiming, without actual documentation, that the issue is "complicated" .Wonderful, the murdered millions of Treblinka, Sobibor, Aushwitz-Birkenau, Chelmno, Belzec, and Lublin-Majdanek,(oh my, all the death camps on Polish soil) now understand it was all "complicated."

...oh well, that's America.

42 posted on 01/08/2013 2:09:53 PM PST by Happy Rain ("Banning guns over Adam Lanza would be like banning speech over Bill Maher.")
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To: Happy Rain

As always things are more complex than they appear on the surface.

There were two major forces in Poland in the early 30s, Sanacja, which was headed by Marshall Pilsudski, and Endecja, headed by Roman Dmorwski.

Pilsudski’s death in 1935 brought about the rise of the Endecja, and with it the harsher treatment of Jews in Poland......But if anything, they hated the Germans even more than the Jews, which explains why despite the shared anti-semitism, cooperation with the the Nazis would have been impossible. There was no “Vichy Poland.”


43 posted on 01/08/2013 2:59:41 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator
The Poles did not need to cooperate nor agree with the Nazis in the oppression of the Jews. The two fascist regimes already had the shared interest in getting rid of them...this is why the extermination camps could be built in Poland and no where else without a lot of local citizen “fuss.”

Poland had the singular misfortune of cooperating in the extermination of the Jews and then themselves being exterminated by the Nazis as Slavic subhumans suitable only for slavery.

Let's face it, the Poles screwed up in WWII and not just because of their Holocaust enabling anti-Semitism but also as being a pathetic first challenge for the Nazi war machine...it was the 20th Century for heaven's sake—trash the biplanes and send the Calvary home!

44 posted on 01/08/2013 3:43:45 PM PST by Happy Rain ("Banning guns over Adam Lanza would be like banning speech over Bill Maher.")
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To: Happy Rain

Do you forget that Poland was also invaded by the Soviets in 1939?

The Poles may have been able to hold out longer if not for that.


45 posted on 01/08/2013 5:09:58 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: DManA

The Poles today say (or perhaps the word ought to be “recognize”) that there is in the West and especially in America an industry whose purpose is to whitewash the German and Soviet war crimes and to blame the Poles and Ukrainians. Recall the recent Obama statement about “Polish death camps”, which corresponds to some of the nonsense posted above.

Things were indeed complicated in Poland before the war as well as during it, as German and Soviet armies rolled over the country and various ethnic groups expressed their sympathies, because it was at the time a truly multi-ethnic society, with many Jews, since we are discussing them, not even speaking the official language of the country, and uncomfortable in it being a sovereign state after 123 years of non-existence. Then there were the Ukrainians who longed for their own state and murdered 200,000 Poles toward that goal, and the Lithuanians, who preferred the German occupation to the Soviet paradise. But all of this is too much for the amateur historians getting their lessons from propagandistic Hollywood productions.


46 posted on 01/08/2013 5:28:02 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: Revolting cat!

Well said.


47 posted on 01/08/2013 9:59:10 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: Happy Rain
One thing history and scholarship can do is show us that things were more complicated that we in our anger believe. In the twenty years since Yahil published her book, there's been much research done by scholars into Polish-Jewish relations before and during the war.

Not all of the findings have been favorable to Poland. Some have been quite shameful. But no serious historian would follow you all the way with your abuse. If you're interested in finding out more, writers like Istvan Deak, Anne Applebaum, and Timothy Snyder have summarized recent research.

If you lost relatives during the war, nobody's going to blame you for feeling as you do. But they're also not going to take your view as authoritative or the last word in the matter. If you're just being a pr*ck to be a pr*ck, though, that's more serious and you might want to do something about it.

48 posted on 01/09/2013 2:39:45 PM PST by x
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