Obama would be limited in executive order on gun control

Examiner ^ | January 9, 2013 | Ryan Witt

[QT3.14]

Today Vice President Joe Biden met with gun victims and safety groups as part of a continuing effort by his task force to come up with solutions to gun violence in the aftermath of the Newtown, Connecticut shootings. The highlight of the meeting came when Biden announced that the White House is prepared to act through executive action to implement gun control measures. Biden stated...

[QT3.14]

"…Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed...."

- Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, 1787

[Noamie]

The ATF is about to get stupid on gun store owners.

[wolf24]

Mark

[null and void]

Oh? Who exactly is going to limit him?

[Hugin]

“”The president is going to act. Executive order, executive action that can be taken, we haven’t decided what that is yet.”

We have to sign it so we can know what’s in it.

[Robert357]

Let's be honest, there is a lot that can be done by Executive Order. A lot of it can be challenged in the courts for due process, but if the due process happens, a lot can be done.

EPA has been toying with banning lead bullets for a long time.

Product liability laws were used by the left as a method of scaring firearm manufacturers.

Many on the left have wanted the CDC to take up firearms and gun violence as a medical issue to be regulated as such.

You could see federal regulations declaring all kinds of federal facilities or things purchased with federal money to be declared gun free zones, like parks, interstate highways, and a host of things. Post Offices, federal buildings are still gun free zones, even if National Parks now allow concealed carry permit holders to concealed carry (outside of federal park buildings).

In short there is probably going to be a long of things that the big Zero is going to be implementing that will make those who believe in the 2nd Amendment mad.

Still the Constitution has a set of Checks and Balances and it has a Bill of Rights. I lived through the first Assault Weapons Ban and 8 years of Bill Clinton, I can live through the Big Zero who is going to make Jimmy Carter look like a successful president.

[rktman]

WHAT! Joe “spread ‘em, you’re gonna be frisked” biteme mis-spoke? No way!!!!

Stop radical left wing extremists.

[Just another Joe]

The ATF is about to get stupid on gun store owners.

The ATF is about to get stupid on gun store owners.

There, fixed that for you.

If Obomba and the ATF want to dance they better understand that the American people can dance better than anyone else.

[aimhigh]

Let's be honest, there is a lot that can be done by Executive Order.

I remember when Clinton signed an order on his way out to require every water treatment center to raise their arsenic standards. It would have cost local governments billions.

[rcrngroup]

Oh? Who exactly is going to limit him?

Our good friends, Smith & Wesson.

Seriously though, I think that doofus dumb-ass Joe Bite-Me Biden just "shot" himself in the proverbial foot with his outburst. He just opened his mouth and absolutely confirmed the greatest fears of conservatives & gun owners (likely including some liberal gun owners as well) that 0dumb0 & the socialist demoRATs have every intention of ruling by dictatorial & tyrannical fiat. This will probably galvanize conservative/Christian/patriotic Americans if they ever try to implement such a gun grab like this. This may be the tipping point that is needed to make a strong stand for our freedoms & rights & liberties against 0dumb0Sh_t and the RATs.

[Secret Agent Man]

executive orders only apply to the executive branch employees.

[Robert357]

Exactly, a lot can by done by executive order and much of what can be done is not good.

[DangerZone]

That won't matter. The Constitution not only gives the federal government no authority to regulate arms, it expressly forbids it from doing so. That hasn't stopped anti-gun laws from being passed and forced for decades, and it certainly won't stop the current occupier of the White House from doing whatever he wants.

The only thing that will stop him is the will of the defenders of the Constitution, and that will has been severely lacking for many years now.

[doug from upland]

How is Obama limited? The Constitution does no apply to him and he controls the Justice Department?

[SkyDancer]

First get every gun away from street hoods. Then maybe we’ll talk. It’s easier to get guns from law abiding citizens because they obey the laws re: guns. Street hoods do not.

[DangerZone]

Uh, no. Our rights to defend ourselves are not negotiable. The Second Amendment is not about defending ourselves from common criminals or nutters who go on mass shooting sprees.

[Tzimisce]

Limits have never stopped Obama before.

[SkyDancer]

It was a tongue in cheek thing. I know that no street hood would turn in their gun. It’s easier for politicians to go after registered guns or guns from law abiding citizens. It’s also the reason our family doesn’t belong to the NRA or any gun organisation because the feds can use the subscription lists to find out who owns guns. Unfortunately all ours were lost in a tragic mishap when our boat was swamped.

[snoringbear]

Yeah,

Makes one wonder where the people who make up the ATF come from; KGB residuals perhaps. They were the prime movers behind Ruby Ridge and the Branch Dividian Massacre - says all you need to know about these people. They’ll quite willingly do whatever Obama and Holder wants them to.

[Cheerio]

FIRST will come registration and that will be justified in order to track and trace all weapons transferred between private parties - e.g. sales among friends, transfers from heir to heir, and that scary gun show “loop hole” that Senator Juan McLame loves to talk about frequently. ONCE registration is established all bets are off.

[usconservative]

Here's the clip of Biden saying Obama will use Executive Orders.

[calex59]

Limited my a**. He can’t pass any EXO that restricts or infringes on the rights of citizens to keep and bear arms. Only and amendment to the constitution can do that. If the house doesn’t call him on any EXO he tries to shove down our throats they need to be kicked pronto. Can’t depend on Roberts to uphold the constitution if it comes to that.

[paratrooper82]

You stated: “That hasn't stopped anti-gun laws from being passed and forced for decades,. . . “

That is because the left used “felon's in possession” as the reason de jure for gun control and almost every American supported it since the left was leaving them alone.

Now the left gun grabbers are knocking on the door of every American; convicted felon or not, now it is a problem and the new laws need to be beaten back.

I tried to get people to fight against all gun control efforts but was unsuccessful. the excuse was “we don't want convicted felons in possession of firearms!” or “we need some reasonable gun control laws!” Well, if everyone would understand, the socialist gun control is NOT about crime prevention, or gun safety, but, instead to disarm the American people period, maybe now everyone will unite to fight these dirty socialist on EVERY legislative gun control effort!

[Robe]

Unfortunately all ours were lost in a tragic mishap when our boat was swamped.

What a coinki dink.....I too lost all my firearms in a tragic canoe capsizing, on a lake in Manitoba (I think, it was such a traumatic experience the my mind is jello,jello...

[Cyber Liberty]

This dictator recognizes no limits. The argument is moot.

[tsomer]

Storm the Bastille?

One of those cell phone flash things?

Desperate times, desperate measures.

Besides, the Attorney General did that very thing in college.

[21st Century Crusader]

The kenyan must know that whatever action he’s planning would have no chance getting through even the weak kneed congress, so like any DICTATOR would, he plans to issue an edict! I don’t know about anyone else, but 0bama IS NOT MY MASTER!

[doug from upland]

Twelve Americans are murdered every day by illegal aliens, according to statistics released by Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa. If those numbers are correct, it translates to 4,380 Americans murdered annually by illegal aliens.
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2006/11/39031/#LEASzzXP0jXjETVw.99

So every two days illegals create a Newtown. When does the deportation begin?

[garbanzo]

One day I’m going to go trawling the lakes and streams of this country. The sheer volume of gold and guns I will find there will make me a multimillionaire.

[familyop]

"Oh? Who exactly is going to limit him?"

The answer to that is in case law, and the citation and quote are behind the link to the article.

[familyop]

It’s not “who” but rather, what.

[null and void]

“The law? What do I care about law? Ain’t I got the power?” - Cornelius Vanderbilt.

[willardwx]

Omammy shall not “abridge the right to keep and bear arms”. That means he has no power at all on our guns. We are not registering and he can go to burning Hades.The reason for this freedom which was a high priority in out CONSTITUTION. was to be able to combat TYRANNY from our government!!!

[Blood of Tyrants]

You are correct in that Obastard will be limited in what he can do. Whatever it is, it will still have to be within the law and the Constitution or the EO will be rapidly overturned. As much as Obastard hates to admit it, he can’t simply create a law declaring the AR-15 to be a Class 3 weapon and force everyone to register them as such.

[Secret Agent Man]

well it will have to come down to the wire if they attempt to take peoples’ guns. they’ll have no choice but to decide what they will do.

[ctdonath2]

He can order whatever he wants. He’s the Executive.
If anyone objects, he can tie it up in court for years regardless of inevitable outcome.

[MileHi]

Oh? Who exactly is going to limit him?

Sure can't get a clue from the two sentence excerpt...

[Katechon]

Very true.

Article 1 of the Constitution establishes that "the Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it" -- but does not specify which authority has the jurisdiction to decide on the exceptional suspension.

Another passage of Article 1 declares that the power to declare war and to raise and support the army and navy rests with Congress, BUT Article 2 states that "the President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States."

Let's just look at a few precedents:

During the Civil War (1861–1865), Lincoln acted counter to the text of Article 1 (on April 15, 1861) by proclaiming that an army of seventy-five thousand men was to be raised and convened a special session of Congress for July 4. In the ten weeks that passed between April 15 and July 4, Lincoln acted de facto as a total dictator. On April 27, Lincoln authorized the General in Chief of the Army to suspend the writ of Habeas Corpus whenever he deemed it necessary along the military line between Washington and Philadelphia. Furthermore, on February 1862, Lincoln imposed censorship of the mail and authorized the arrest and detention in military prisons of persons suspected of "disloyal and treasonable practices".

In the speech he delivered to Congress July 4 1861, President Lincoln justified his actions as the holder of a supreme power to violate the Constitution in a situation of necessity:

"Whether strictly legal or not, [the measures he had adopted had been taken] under what appeared to be a popular demand and a public necessity" in the certainty that Congress would ratify them. Those exceptional measures were based on the conviction that even fundamental, natural law could be violated IF the very existence of the union and the juridical order were at stake:

"Are all the laws but one to go unexecuted, and the Government itself go to pieces lest that one be violated?"

--Lincoln

Although Congress was aware that the constitutional jurisdictions had been transgressed, it could do nothing but ratify the actions of the President, as it did on August 6, 1861. Strengthened by this approval, Lincoln proclaimed on September the emancipation of the slaves on his authority alone and later generalized the state of emergency throughout the entire territory of the United States, authorizing the arrest and trial before courts martial of "all Rebels and Insurgents, their aiders and abettors within the United States, and all persons discouraging volunteer enlistments, resisting militia drafts, or guilty of any disloyal practice, affording aid and comfort to Rebels against the authority of the United States."

***

During World War One President Wilson assumed broader powers than those Lincoln had claimed. However, instead of ignoring Congress, as Lincoln had done, Wilson had those extraordinary powers delegated to him by Congress. Instead of declaring a state of emergency, he had exceptional laws issued. From 1917 to 1918, Congress approved a series of acts (from the Espionage Act of 1917 to the Departmental Reorganization Act of 1918) that granted the President COMPLETE CONTROL over the administration of the United States and not only prohibited disloyal activities (such as collaboration with the enemy and the diffusion of false reports), but even made it a crime to "willfully utter, print, write, or publish any disloyal, profane, scurrilous, or abusive language about the form of government of the United States" (from the Sedition Act of 1918).

***

Since the power of the President is grounded in the emergency linked to a state of war, the metaphor of war became a part of the presidential vocabulary whenever decisions considered to be of vital importance are being imposed.

In 1933, Franklin D. Roosevelt was able to assume extraordinary powers by presenting his actions as those of a Commander in Chief during a military campaign:

"I assume unhesitatingly the leadership of this great army of our people dedicated to a disciplined attack upon our common problems.…I am prepared under my constitutional duty to recommend the measures that a stricken Nation in the midst of a stricken world may require.…But in the event that the Congress shall fail to take [the necessary measures] and in the event that the national emergency is still critical, I shall not evade the clear course of duty that will then confront me. I shall ask the Congress for the one remaining instrument to meet the crisis—broad Executive power to wage war against the emergency, as great as the power that would be given to me if we were in fact invaded by a foreign foe."

--Franklin D. Roosevelt, First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1933

From the constitutional point of view, the New Deal was realized by delegating to the President (through a series of statutes culminating in the National Recovery Act of June 1933) an UNLIMITED POWER to CONTROL every aspect of the economic life.

The outbreak of World War Two extended these powers with the creation of a "Office of Emergency Management" [the ancestor of today's FEMA]. On September 7, 1942, FDR renewed his claim to TOTAL CONTROL during the emergency:

"In the event that the Congress should fail to act, and act adequately, I shall accept the responsibility, and I will act.…The American people can…be sure that I shall not hesitate to use every power vested in me to accomplish the defeat of our enemies in any part of the world where our own safety demands such defeat."

On February 19, 1942, the FDR administration proceeded with the internment of seventy thousand American citizens of Japanese descent who resided on the West Coast (along with forty thousand Japanese citizens who lived and worked there).

[William Tell]

I interpret just the mention of "executive order" as an admission by the Obama administration that there is no way on this earth that any gun control law will pass Congress.

Congressmen on the fence about this issue are now relieved of having to commit themselves. They need only state that they are awaiting the results of Obama's executive orders. If such orders prove effective, then there would be no need for new legislation.

[Roses0508]

Ours disappeared in our last move. We didn’t notice until months later — too late to file a claim. Very sad!

[dragonblustar]

What good is the constitution if there is no one to defend it? Look what Roberts did with the supreme court decisions.. And the republicans in congress are nothing but wimps. They can’t even stand up to Obama over a simple budget. There may be a few hold out judges across the country but Obama has the key people in control that will side with him. And those that do not follow his command, he uses the media or activist groups to destroy them.

[Noamie]

I’ve known some field ATF agents and the one thing they had in common was this real desire to “go get law breakers.”

I came to the realization that they don’t really think too much about what the law is, or if it is a just law.... or even Constitutional.

They’ll just go pack-o-dogs on you and not think twice if they’re pointed in your direction.

[glennaro]

I got your point: We cannot be certain that a significant number of Republicans in Congress and justices on the Supreme Court wouldn’t give obama most anything he demands — they’ve done so thus far many times (although they threaten a lot!)

[GlockThe Vote]

Nothing is limited when it comes to a committed communist like obama

[PLMerite]

Refuse. Resist.

[null and void]

Yeah, and not one single citizen/subject/serf will have “standing” to take it to court.

[aimhigh]

executive orders only apply to the executive branch employees.

Like the ATF, FBI, EPA. Remember Clinton's farewell Exec order, which would have required all local water plants to filter for arsenic?