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Paul Ryan Brilliantly Evokes Clueless Conservatism
Forbes ^ | 01/10/2013 | Louis Woodhill

Posted on 01/10/2013 7:02:10 AM PST by SeekAndFind

The 2012 elections showed that the American people don’t like clueless conservatism any better now than when they were getting it in massive doses from George W. Bush.

If the electorate really favored progressivism, they would have given the Democrats control of the House of Representatives, and they did not. Instead, the voters used the election to deliver the biggest jolt to the Republicans that they could without giving the Democrats complete control of government.

The 2012 election amounted to a desperate attempt by the electorate to purge the Republican Party of clueless conservatism. Clearly, the people are trying to force the GOP to come up with new candidates with new ideas. Actually, what the voters really want are new Republican candidates with old ideas—the ideas that produced two landslides for Ronald Reagan.

When choosing a presidential candidate, Republicans have a tradition of nominating whoever is “next in line”. In 2016, this will be Paul Ryan, who was the Republican candidate for vice president in 2012.

Paul Ryan is a brilliant, hard-working, and very nice man. And, he is the very model of a modern clueless conservative.

In his interview on Hugh Hewitt’s show on January 2, Ryan touched upon all of the core principles and beliefs of clueless conservatism. Now, all the Republicans have to do if they want to lose the House of Representatives and 60+ seats in the Senate in 2014 is to follow the precepts that Ryan so earnestly laid out in his conversation with Hewitt.

(Excerpt) Read more at forbes.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 113th; 2012veep; bho44; conservatism; paulryan

1 posted on 01/10/2013 7:02:17 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind
. In 2016, this will be Paul Ryan, who was the Republican candidate for vice president in 2012.

Heh...just like Sarah Palin was?

2 posted on 01/10/2013 7:04:04 AM PST by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
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To: SeekAndFind

Paul Ryan explains why he voted for the McConnell-Biden deal and H.R. 8.

In his words:

“We had been hit with a $4.4 trillion dollar tax increase yesterday, and I had the opportunity to knock it down by $3.8 trillion dollars. That means 98% of the country don’t get hit with a tax increase.”

To think that passing H.R. 8 was a “good choice” is clueless conservatism. The Republican Party is either the party of economic growth, or it is nothing—and being nothing loses elections. H.R. 8 is not something that anyone who is concerned about economic growth (and who knows how to produce it) would have agreed to.

From 2012 levels, H.R. 8 raised all of the taxes that negatively impact economic growth (the top rates on ordinary income, dividends, capital gains, and inheritances), while capping those that have little or no effect on the rate of GDP expansion. As a result, compared with maintaining all of the 2012 tax rates, H.R. 8 will reduce economic growth and yield lower, rather than higher, federal revenues.


3 posted on 01/10/2013 7:04:22 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: Timber Rattler

Paul Ryan explains why he voted for the McConnell-Biden deal and H.R. 8.

In his words:

“We had been hit with a $4.4 trillion dollar tax increase yesterday, and I had the opportunity to knock it down by $3.8 trillion dollars. That means 98% of the country don’t get hit with a tax increase.”

To think that passing H.R. 8 was a “good choice” is clueless conservatism. The Republican Party is either the party of economic growth, or it is nothing—and being nothing loses elections. H.R. 8 is not something that anyone who is concerned about economic growth (and who knows how to produce it) would have agreed to.

From 2012 levels, H.R. 8 raised all of the taxes that negatively impact economic growth (the top rates on ordinary income, dividends, capital gains, and inheritances), while capping those that have little or no effect on the rate of GDP expansion. As a result, compared with maintaining all of the 2012 tax rates, H.R. 8 will reduce economic growth and yield lower, rather than higher, federal revenues.


4 posted on 01/10/2013 7:05:53 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind
I guess everyone is happy to see all of the new taxes from the White House. You asked for them, right? I won't mention the new super gun control that Joe is dreaming up.
5 posted on 01/10/2013 7:07:35 AM PST by ANGGAPO (Layte Gulf Beach Club)
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To: ANGGAPO

RE: I guess everyone is happy to see all of the new taxes from the White House.

We were between a rock and a hard place.

Like it or not, Obama (with the help of many who disliked him but chose to stay home ) was re-elected President and openly campaigned to raise taxes on the rich.

The alternative was of course to vote NO on the McConnell-Biden deal which if it went down would have cause the Bush tax cuts to expire and RAISED EVERYONE’s TAXES (including those making much less than $200,000 ).


6 posted on 01/10/2013 7:18:57 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: Timber Rattler

Sarah Palin was the one hopeful blip on the GOP screen in decades

If not for her, McCain would have been an even bigger loser than he was (is).

Then, the GOP proved (once again) it’s inability to learn a lesson, and put ‘Reince’ (???) Prebus in charge. If there was anything that could have shown the people how clueless they were other than electing someone named ‘Reince’ I dont know what it could be.

The GOP party has become a bureaucratic organization mostly concerned with holding their own jobs and promoting from within, as bad as any other government bureacracy.


7 posted on 01/10/2013 7:27:47 AM PST by Mr. K (There are lies, damned lies, statistics, and democrat talking points.)
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To: SeekAndFind

To split hairs, the “good choice” remark came from Hewitt, not Ryan. Obviously, they both agree the Ryan vote was “a good choice”.

Trusting even conservative ponies right now, is very hard for me. Time needs to cough up a Reagan before the ‘16 election, someone with both charisma and brains together, or knows where they can rent some, because the old lions are already picking our next nominee now.

Billion dollar campaigns are fashionable and of course require a very early start.


8 posted on 01/10/2013 7:31:42 AM PST by RitaOK ( VIVA CHRISTO REY / Public education is the farm team for more Marxists coming.)
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To: SeekAndFind

I hope that is a lesson learned by the GOP never to make a ‘temporary’ tax reduction again. The Bush tax cuts should have been permanent all along.

(HA HA I know... the GOP learning a lesson... That’s a good one)


9 posted on 01/10/2013 7:33:10 AM PST by Mr. K (There are lies, damned lies, statistics, and democrat talking points.)
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To: SeekAndFind
We were between a rock and a hard place.

Mitch McConnell put us there with his "Super Committee" debt ceiling compromise in July 2011, which Boehner forced through the House.

They both own this.

10 posted on 01/10/2013 7:35:11 AM PST by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
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To: SeekAndFind

The alternative was of course to vote NO on the McConnell-Biden deal which if it went down would have cause the Bush tax cuts to expire and RAISED EVERYONE’s TAXES


No pain, no gain.

The reason this country is in the shape it is is that people vote their wallets.


11 posted on 01/10/2013 7:37:02 AM PST by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: SeekAndFind
If the electorate really favored progressivism, they would have given the Democrats control of the House of Representatives, and they did not.

Very deceptive. The reality is that the majority of the American people DID vote for a Democrat House of Representatives - by over 1.3 million votes actually. The only reason the Republicans hung on was through skillful gerrymandering.

12 posted on 01/10/2013 7:40:35 AM PST by Longbow1969
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To: Mr. K

Yep, I agree 100%.


13 posted on 01/10/2013 7:40:57 AM PST by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
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To: SeekAndFind

The only person that I would even think of putting my gun and bible down long enough to go vote for is Rand Paul.


14 posted on 01/10/2013 7:43:20 AM PST by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: Mr. K

It still dumbfounds me. All that unbelievable grassroots energy that Palin brought to the GOP. The biggest political dynamo they’d had since the days of Reagan. Even after she left office and was on her book tour, there were lines of a thousand people standing out for hours during the night in freezing temps to see her and get their books signed. Lightning-in-a-bottle. Might only happen once in a generation, especially in terms of the political world.

Add all the momentum the tea parties brought. And what did the GOP do, when handed these gifts? They did everything they could to pour cold water on it all. It can’t just be monumental stupidity. No one is that stupid. I ultimately had to come to the conclusion that the GOP leadership is just far more alligned to the ruling elite’s socialist agenda and resulting big-government corruption, alongside the degenerate Dems and their vile enablers in the media. I’ve voted exclusively GOP my whole voting life, but I no longer have any faith, respect or trust in the Party, due to all this.


15 posted on 01/10/2013 7:49:46 AM PST by greene66
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To: SeekAndFind

Wasn’t the Forbes writer’s point that the R’s are infested with Keynesians, and that the thing was a bad choice and should have been voted down?

How do you show the electorate that you believe in your own philosophy when you shield the electorate, by smoke and mirrors, with your own Keynesian vote?

“Let it burn” wasn’t a futile exercise, but a strong show-and-tell for giving the people exactly what they asked for and letting them live with the results. R’s might well be back by 2016 had they stood on sound fiscal ground, common sense, and among the Obama economic ashes.

A very rough game of “chicken”, I realize. Rand and Rubio stood (knowing how the vote would go) and thereby passed one of many other basic tests to come.


16 posted on 01/10/2013 7:55:13 AM PST by RitaOK ( VIVA CHRISTO REY / Public education is the farm team for more Marxists coming.)
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To: SeekAndFind
RAISED EVERYONE’s TAXES (including those making much less than $200,000)

Which would have been a good thing, much though it roils my bowels to say so. Any time we can add one member of the 47% back to the taxpaying class, it is good for the debate in the long run.

17 posted on 01/10/2013 7:57:51 AM PST by Notary Sojac (Ut veniant omnes)
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To: SeekAndFind
Instead, the voters used the election to deliver the biggest jolt to the Republicans that they could without giving the Democrats complete control of government.

Is this really what the voters did? No way. It seems more like the electorate was more clueless than even the GOP. Confused, incapable of firing a failed and inept president for fear of not being cool, incapable of doing anything other than fearfully leaving the status quo to continue ruining all things good.

Let's hope the GOP has some kind light bulbs pop off in its collective heads before they continue acting as if they lost the House already. Let's hope that we as conservatives stop being the circular firing squad that enables the left to win forever.......

18 posted on 01/10/2013 7:58:38 AM PST by Lakeshark (!)
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To: SeekAndFind; Lancey Howard; Arthurio; mike_9958; Perdogg; what's up; ArmstedFragg; Hoodat; ...
From link:”Yes, but having taxes go up for 100% of the American people instead of 2% would have created demand for the Republican’s core product—tax cuts. This would have given the Republicans in the House tremendous leverage to bargain for real pro-growth provisions as part of the tax cut package that the American people would have demanded.”

????
No, if the House GOP successfully held out for all the rates to revert to Clinton levels (beyond New Years Day) the American people would have seen them as the party that raised their taxes for the exact goal this author states he wants above, to get all the Bush rates.

This strategy only works if Obama got blamed for it and that wasn't happening, they would simply believe the House GOP raised their taxes for the purpose of exactly what this author suggests, to get all the upper income cut too.

. Either they all were going up or a small % were going up.

BTW : After most Americans figured the GOP raised their taxes (for the purpose this author states he wanted it done for_) and blames Rs for it instead of Dems this author would blame the failure of his great idea on the MSM in typical ritual fashion.

Maybe this author should have run for Speaker and shown us how it is done.

19 posted on 01/10/2013 8:05:44 AM PST by sickoflibs (Losing to O is NO principle!)
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To: SeekAndFind
Keynesianism is a superstition. The economy doesn’t work that way. Before the government can spend an incremental dollar, it must first borrow it from the private sector.

That's true, unless it borrows it from the Federal Reserve, instead.

20 posted on 01/10/2013 8:07:16 AM PST by Tau Food (Never give a sword to a man who can't dance.)
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To: Mr. K
Know nothing negativism abounds here.

"Permanent" tax cuts would've been subject to the Byrd Rule and thus the cuts would've never been passed in the first place.

21 posted on 01/10/2013 8:16:52 AM PST by newzjunkey (bah)
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To: SeekAndFind; Lancey Howard; Arthurio; mike_9958; Perdogg; Gilbo_3; Impy; stephenjohnbanker; ...

Alternatively O is getting the sole credit for the >=$400K income tax increase by the MSM and most Americans as he ran on it and won. And then he whipped that GOP and got what he demanded (MSM theme).

so when the economy dives into a major depression due to these job creators paying more taxes then voters will demand that Obama pass a massive tax cut fot the >$440K, maybe to zero rates, or risk a major loss in 2014, .

this is perfect, Obama is in a lose-lose and the MSM is helping

So when is the depression starting that the GOP promised us for the past... years if this happened ?
I cant wait till we get to do the gloating for a change.


22 posted on 01/10/2013 8:18:08 AM PST by sickoflibs (Losing to O is NO principle!)
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To: greene66

Well said.


23 posted on 01/10/2013 8:21:02 AM PST by ClearCase_guy (Nothing will change until after the war.)
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To: SeekAndFind
The 2012 election amounted to a desperate attempt by the electorate to purge the Republican Party of clueless conservatism.

To subscribe to the uninformed electorate, a sophistication necessary in their voting to send messages, indicates to me the author doesn't know the voting public.

Poll after poll of the voting public shows how ill informed they are about Government and the candidates. - Tom

24 posted on 01/10/2013 8:25:59 AM PST by Capt. Tom
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To: SeekAndFind
The 2012 elections showed that the American people don’t like clueless conservatism any better now than when they were getting it in massive doses from George W. Bush.

I agree--and frequently posted articles to that effect at my Conservative Intelligence Center, in the previous decade--that George W. Bush was "clueless." But he was certainly no Conservative. Calling oneself a "Conservative," is not, after all, the measure.

On the other hand, Ryan has some superb qualities. Does he sometimes makes mistakes? Yes. He is still developing. But rather than denounce him, personally, for making a mistake in common with many others; why not simply explain why what you believe was a mistake, was--in fact--a mistake?!

The essential point is that we have to persuade many millions of Americans, that we are on a totally disastrous path; that we must reverse that path--either by political or other means--or we are going to lose the heritage that all true Conservatives cherish. Can't we concentrate on the issues for a time, rather than denouncing those who while not perfect are still 85% on our side? Have we forgotten the brief surges of those changing their perspectives, after the Reagan victory in 1980--something reversing the shifts against us, after the Roosevelt shift to the Left in 1933; or the LBJ use of the Kennedy Assassination in 1964?

With the right formulas for persuasion; people can be converted, either in a good or bad way. Constantly attacking those not quite completely on our side, is rather a precise way not to aid the path to benign conversion.

William Flax

P.S. Check out Whither American Conservatism.

25 posted on 01/10/2013 8:27:41 AM PST by Ohioan
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To: Capt. Tom
I agree with you as to the competence of the electorate. Actually much of the electorate is not only "uninformed!" Many have been effectively bought by a corrupt system that allows people to vote without regard to obvious conflicts of interest. Many others are simply incompetent; and are allowed to vote only because of the Alice & Wonderland fantasy world, which presumes that humans are basically interchangeable. And, indeed, many of the bribed, also reflect the fantasy which pretends that they even understand the functions of the offices for which they are voting.

Do they really?

We had popular Government from 1776. No one is attacking the idea, now--certainly not I. But we did not make the idea of universal suffrage any type of goal until the 1820s. It is time we reconsidered the merits of that latter "goal." It has none.

William Flax

26 posted on 01/10/2013 8:40:43 AM PST by Ohioan
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To: SeekAndFind

This author and this article are DEAD ON right!!!

If you stop and think about it, most of the ‘clueless conservatives’ do have been sold on the belief that the economy depends on what the government does or does not do. This is what it’s come down to.

Yes, the govt can ‘incentivize’ or ‘penalize’ by way of the tax code, but all this talk of “STIMULUS” (govt spending)...starting with BUSH...was nothing but ‘political’ shenanigans, that ultimately cost the taxpayers (the ‘hardworking’ ones).

And, yes, the Paul Ryans out there are nothing but ‘GOVT’ solutions politicians. Sadly the Republican party is now dominated by these so-called ‘clueless conservatives’ (i.e. Keynesian types).

The debate, sadly, has been - and continues to be - shaped by the ‘socialist’ ideology of GOVT can control the economy.....and the ‘clueless conservatives’ have bitten the bait to engage in debating ‘the degree’ of that ‘involvement’.

Wake up! Smell the bacon!!!!


27 posted on 01/10/2013 8:44:48 AM PST by LibFreeUSA
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To: LibFreeUSA

RE: And, yes, the Paul Ryans out there are nothing but ‘GOVT’ solutions politicians.

I gather you are not a fan of Ryan’s PATH TO PROSPERITY and his solution for our imminent Medicare bankrupcy...


28 posted on 01/10/2013 8:53:00 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: Mr. K; SeekAndFind; newzjunkey; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; DoughtyOne; Gilbo_3; Impy; ...
RE:”I hope that is a lesson learned by the GOP never to make a ‘temporary’ tax reduction again. The Bush tax cuts should have been permanent all along.
(HA HA I know... the GOP learning a lesson... That’s a good one)”

This is true, the 2005 to 2006 GOP congress under GWB left this time bomb and O was smart enough to get Pelosi House to extend it exactly two years till now when he was safely re-elected,.

The reason why Bush settled for tax cuts that were temporary is because it was passed ~ 2003 in the Senate using budget reconciliation rules which bypasses the 40 vote filibuster, they only needed 50+Cheney instead of 60, but that puts an expiration date on them UNLESS the CBO scores them as deficit neutral or deficit negative, more taxes than spending as O-care was. And of course it was scored as adding deficits as the GOP position in those days was that deficits are great for the economy, so they expired.

Hell, Bush couldnt get McCain to vote for them.

So the date was Dec 2010 and as I said, O being much moe clever than Rs got Pelosi House to extend them exactly 2 nmore years with GOP Senators help..

29 posted on 01/10/2013 8:54:44 AM PST by sickoflibs (Losing to O is NO principle!)
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To: All


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30 posted on 01/10/2013 9:03:54 AM PST by musicman (Until I see the REAL Long Form Vault BC, he's just "PRES__ENT" Obama = Without "ID")
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To: SeekAndFind
RE :”Like it or not, Obama (with the help of many who disliked him but chose to stay home ) was re-elected President and openly campaigned to raise taxes on the rich.
The alternative was of course to vote NO on the McConnell-Biden deal which if it went down would have cause the Bush tax cuts to expire and RAISED EVERYONE’s TAXES (including those making much less than $200,000 ).”

A shame we have to keep stating the obvious.

The WH released a CBO score that claims that this bill HR 8 cut the deficit by $737B over 10 years even compared to the higher Clinton rates that went into effect Jan 1 after the extended Bush tax cut expiration, and it gave a detailed breakdown of the CBO estimates.

Have you seen anything posted here like that?

31 posted on 01/10/2013 9:05:41 AM PST by sickoflibs (Losing to O is NO principle!)
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To: Ohioan
Many have been effectively bought by a corrupt system that allows people to vote without regard to obvious conflicts of interest.

Agreed.
As I have said for many years, the problem the Republicans have is they run against people whose appeal to the electorate is: "Vote for me and I'll get you someone else's money." And they do just that. -tom

32 posted on 01/10/2013 9:12:34 AM PST by Capt. Tom
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To: SeekAndFind

Looking at the WHs CBO score #s closely they get the $737B surplus deficit reduction by comparing HR 8 with the 2012 tax levels not the Jan 1 2013 higher Clinton tax levels, so they claim it cut the deficit by not scoring HR 8 as a tax cut.

This is still interesting because those here cursing this bill here call it both a tax increase and claim it adds to the deficit at the same time.


33 posted on 01/10/2013 9:16:39 AM PST by sickoflibs (Losing to O is NO principle!)
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To: SeekAndFind

I’m not a member of any party, though I once donated to a Republican candidate and I once voted in a Republican primary - only once in both cases. I’m convinced the entire political class at every level is rampant with crooks, shysters, thugs, vapid liers and traitors.

I’ve come to the realization that similar to how the Democrats co-opted the term libralism about 100 years ago the Republican Rinos have been worked to co-opt the term conservative.

I’ve decided however with this co-opt that I will only profess my political belief in one way. I’m for Freedom and Liberty. If you want my vote you must show me how you will protect or expand my freedom and liberty.

No values discussions, no financial discussions, no explanations or reasons or excuses. If you decrease the freedom and liberty of me or mine you are the enemy - end of story.


34 posted on 01/10/2013 9:28:39 AM PST by reed13k (For evil to triumph it is only necessary for good men to do nothing.)
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To: SeekAndFind

In other words, Ryan decided to play the GOP-E game of “voting for a tax cut”, vs. fighting tooth and nail against the enemies of us all...


35 posted on 01/10/2013 9:30:25 AM PST by trebb (Allies no longer trust us. Enemies no longer fear us.)
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To: SeekAndFind
I wasn't sure what the author meant by clueless conservatism, but beyond Keynes, the term seems to refer to the eGOP's inexplicable tendency to compromise for the sake of compromise, especially if they can use that event as an attempt to lessen The One's Stream Media's criticisms and get them to like eGOP party members better.

I learned that people do what they mean rather than say what they mean, and this is especially true with politicians.

What I see is a party suffering with the same internal progressive takeover the country is suffering. The eGOP types would much rather lose to their kindred spirits across the isle than have a true Reaganesque conservative in the party win.

What else explains their abandoning Palin and her family to the attacking left, including McLame's lack of effort? They want to eliminate that threat? I think so.

They don't believe the words conservatism makes them say, economically or otherwise. Those thoughts and ideas, along with those who speak them from the heart, make them uncomfortable.

So...they sell out. They compromise instead of take the win, lose instead of fight, and all while they search for tested sound bites they can use to cover their tracks to what appears to be their deliberate loses.

Maybe McLame was right when he said we had nothing to fear from obama. It's the eGOP sellouts we should be afraid of.

36 posted on 01/10/2013 11:22:21 AM PST by GBA (Here in the Matrix, life is but a dream.)
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To: Lakeshark
Is this really what the voters did? No way.

When the people have a choice between Obama and Obama Light, they go for the real thing. Simple as that. Maybe next time the GOPe will run a conservative.

37 posted on 01/10/2013 11:57:19 AM PST by itsahoot (Any enemy, that is allowed to have a King's X line, is undefeatable. (USS Taluga AO-62))
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To: SeekAndFind

JUST WORDS!!! and no “action”...where is the legislation put forth to get a vote on this so-called “PATH TO PROSPERITY”???

Why did he sell out and vote for this “DEAL”, when even Cantor voted against it?????

Explain that one to me? One is just words, the other one is putting your ‘vote’ on the line.


38 posted on 01/10/2013 12:17:14 PM PST by LibFreeUSA
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To: newzjunkey

Enlighten us then, Oh wisest of us all

(wouldn’t that have been more helpful in the first place too? unless you enjoy name-calling much more than being helpful to fellow conservatives)


39 posted on 01/11/2013 9:55:43 AM PST by Mr. K (There are lies, damned lies, statistics, and democrat talking points.)
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To: Longbow1969

SeekAndFind wrote:
“If the electorate really favored progressivism, they would have given the Democrats control of the House of Representatives, and they did not.”

and Longbow1969 replied:
“Very deceptive. The reality is that the majority of the American people DID vote for a Democrat House of Representatives - by over 1.3 million votes actually. The only reason the Republicans hung on was through skillful gerrymandering.”

Longbow, I think you’re right.

But let me present you with an analogy, if I may try.

Think back to California of, say, 10-15 years ago. Even by then, it had become a solidly “blue” state (Schwarzenegger notwithstanding), but still had an effective Republican voice and representation which provided a measure of a “firewall” in the state legislature. That is to say, whatever legislation got passed (fiscal, etc.), had to “get through” the Republicans first. There were still enough of them there, elected by the conservative regions of the state to block the ‘rats from running roughshod over them.

We are at or near that same situation today, in the federal government. The Republican/conservative voice is still there (we hung onto the House), but it’s grip is tenuous. With the next election, the Republican House majority may be wiped out.

If that happens, expect the nation to go in the same direction as has gone California.

Off the cliff!


40 posted on 01/11/2013 10:57:17 AM PST by Road Glide
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To: Road Glide

The Democrats didn’t get control of the House, because they didn’t want it....they want the Republicans to control the House so they could be their useful scapegoat when the crap hits the fan.


41 posted on 01/11/2013 11:01:02 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: Road Glide
We are at or near that same situation today, in the federal government. The Republican/conservative voice is still there (we hung onto the House), but it’s grip is tenuous.

Good points, I agree with you.

If that happens, expect the nation to go in the same direction as has gone California.

Sadly, I think that is the direction we are going. It isn't necessarily that Republicans aren't fighting hard enough (though I'd certainly like to see them do a much better job of that), it's that what passes for 'the American public' these days have simply bought into secular socialism. We ceded the education and entertainment culture to the left for far too long, and this is the result.

My guess is this nation will keep moving in the same direction as California, until eventually the entire rotten socialist system implodes. I just don't know if we have 2 years or 30 before that happens. I don't know if we can kick the debt can down the road for a handful of years or generations. Eventually this house of cards will implode though.

42 posted on 01/11/2013 11:23:56 AM PST by Longbow1969
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