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Ed Schultz: "We've Never Had a Civilian Stop a Shooting"
Townhall.com ^ | January 11, 2013 | Leah Barkoukis

Posted on 01/12/2013 1:35:19 AM PST by Kaslin

Yeah, he really said this:

NBC's Ed Schultz Lies About Civilians Disarming Mass Shooters

Where did he get this idea? Jack Coleman over at NewsBusters thinks the claim originated from a Mother Jones article written in the wake of the Sandy Hook Elementary shooting, but Schultz doesn’t source the statement. The Mother Jones report states: “In the wake of the slaughters this summer at a Colorado movie theater and a Sikh temple in Wisconsin, we set out to track mass shootings in the United States over the last 30 years. We identified and analyzed 62 of them, and one striking pattern is this: In not a single case was the killing stopped by a civilian using a gun.” (According to the criteria used in their research, a mass shooting is when the "shooter took the lives of at least four people.")

When armed civilians or off-duty police officers are present in active shooter scenarios they respond quickly—usually preventing the situation from becoming a mass shooting. For example, in 2007, former police officer Jeanne Assam volunteered to work security at her church in Colorado and prevented a mass shooting:

Jeanne Assam Saves The Day

There was also the recent incident of a gunman opening fire at the Mayan Palace Theatre in San Antonio just days after the Connecticut shooting. An off-duty cop stopped the gunman.

Gunman Shoot Gun at San Antonio MovieTheater Mayan Palace Theatre

Of course, there are other examples of “civilians” preventing mass shootings. Mark Hemingway over at The Weekly Standard provides more examples:

-- Winnemuccas, Nev., 2008: Ernesto Villagomez opens fire in a crowded restaurant; concealed carry permit-holder shoots him dead. Total dead: Two. (I'm excluding the shooters' deaths in these examples.)

-- Appalachian School of Law, 2002: Crazed immigrant shoots the dean and a professor, then begins shooting students; as he goes for more ammunition, two armed students point their guns at him, allowing a third to tackle him. Total dead: Three.

-- Santee, Calif. 2001: Student begins shooting his classmates -- as well as the "trained campus supervisor"; an off-duty cop who happened to be bringing his daughter to school that day points his gun at the shooter, holding him until more police arrive. Total dead: Two.

-- Pearl High School, Mississippi, 1997: After shooting several people at his high school, student heads for the junior high school; assistant principal Joel Myrick retrieves a .45 pistol from his car and points it at the gunman's head, ending the murder spree. Total dead: Two.

-- Edinboro, Pa., 1998: A student shoots up a junior high school dance being held at a restaurant; restaurant owner pulls out his shotgun and stops the gunman. Total dead: One.

Believe what you will, Mr. Schultz, but it’s more accurate to say that "civilians" have prevented more mass shootings than “gun-free zones” have.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: armedcitizen; banglist; guncontrol; secondamendment
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1 posted on 01/12/2013 1:35:28 AM PST by Kaslin
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To: Kaslin

Aside from the fact that there have been “civilians” who have stopped shooters, there is one other point to consider.

Schultz and his ilk have prevented it from happening more often by establishing their “gun free zones” which most gun owners (being a respectful lot, by and large) abide by.


2 posted on 01/12/2013 1:45:24 AM PST by shibumi (Cover it with gas and set it on fire.)
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Has anyone done a study on how this violence has increased dramatically since we started mainstreaming students with mental disabilities? How many of these mass shootings have occurred since the mentally deficient have been placed in the normal kids rooms? How many of these shooters have been on prescribed drugs to adjust their behavior isms? When will the psychiatrists be held responsible?


3 posted on 01/12/2013 1:51:16 AM PST by Plumberman27
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To: Kaslin

Think of all the mass shootings that were deterred because of the armed good guys. One that comes to mind was the recent Dallas Mavericks victory parade after they won the NBA Title. This was a prime opportunity for urban thugs to go on a riotous rampage with widespread violence and loss of life. It never happened. Why? Because the good people of Texas are armed and the feral savages know better than to mess with a gun-carrying Texan. Thankfully, we have an abundance of Conservatives here who respect the Second Amendment and carry. Even at my church, we gun owners (and yes, that includes the preacher), take our weapons to worship. And, not surprisingly, we’ve never had a robbery or any other form of criminal activity.


4 posted on 01/12/2013 1:52:12 AM PST by re_nortex (DP...that's what I like about Texas.)
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To: Kaslin

So, if someone stops a murderer at three fatalities, it doesn’t count toward the stopping of a mass murder?


5 posted on 01/12/2013 2:14:01 AM PST by skr (May God confound the enemy)
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To: Kaslin

One could also probably mention the Clakamas mall shootings. When an armed citizen drew down on the shooter (Jacob Roberts) the gunman fled the immediate vicinity and took his own life moments later.

What people on the left don’t seem to get, and as my brother-in-law (a former member of the Cleveland PD, btw) points out, you will *never* completely prevent these shootings from happening. There will always be some nut who manages to get his hands on a weapon no matter what laws you pass. What we *can* do, however, is lessen the scope of the tragedy by making sure that there are good guys with guns around to keep it from being an even bigger tragedy.


6 posted on 01/12/2013 2:35:27 AM PST by DemforBush (You might very well think that. I could not *possibly* comment.)
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To: Kaslin

Really Ed? Here is a case from just a few days ago:

http://www.fresnobee.com/2013/01/09/3127388/fresno-man-was-gunman-in-madera.html

One of many every month I would imagine...doesn’t the NRA have a whole website full of examples?


7 posted on 01/12/2013 2:36:10 AM PST by Drago
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To: Kaslin

Tell that useless waste of skin directly: ed@edschultzshow.com


8 posted on 01/12/2013 2:39:00 AM PST by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: Kaslin

My message to Ed:

Well, Ed, I’d normally chalk up the fact that you said that to mendacity. After all, most thinking humans would understand that if a potential mass shooting was successfully stopped, it WOULDN’T END UP BEING A MASS SHOOTING. And there are in fact MANY examples of armed citizens doing EXACTLY that, namely stopping a mass shooting!

But in your case, I’m going to have to attribute what you said to just pure stupidity (or brain damage from chronic alcoholism?) instead of ill intent.

I’d say seek help, but frankly, the world will be better off if you don’t.


9 posted on 01/12/2013 2:50:20 AM PST by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: Kaslin

Eddie, stop passing the pipe around. Ain’t going to inhale!


10 posted on 01/12/2013 3:39:00 AM PST by existentially_kuffer
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To: Kaslin

Their criteria is interesting and of course faulty. If one is armed and stops a mass shooting by downing the shooter before he gets his kill number above three then the incident is not included in the findings. Very shrewd.


11 posted on 01/12/2013 3:43:18 AM PST by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: piytar

The problem here is that one can claim that it is impossible to know whether the shooter intended a mass shooting, or had just planned to shoot less than 4 anyway.

It’s kind of a stupid claim, but is being made by implication.


12 posted on 01/12/2013 3:47:31 AM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: Kaslin

OK, here’s the deal.

Where I live, people can fire guns on their property. I often hear my friends and neighbors happily plinking away at cans. If there are thugs driving around looking for a soft target, I’m sure they hear it, too. And if they drive on in search of a softer target, then my friends and neighbors are safe for another day. How is that bad?

And if there’s some chucklehead wanna-be g-banger in the car, maybe he/she will hear those shots and decide that crime is too risky a way to make his/her fortune and turn away from it. How is that bad?

I these cases, I would consider it very likely...indeed probable...that a civilian “stopped” a shooting. HOW IS THAT BAD?


13 posted on 01/12/2013 3:51:08 AM PST by mrs. a (It's a short life but a merry one...)
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To: Plumberman27
Mental disability doesn’t necessarily translate into violent behavior. Perhaps you mean the mentaly ill? There is a difference.
14 posted on 01/12/2013 3:56:52 AM PST by fatnotlazy
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To: Kaslin

I wouldn’t waste a good bullet saving Special Ed.


15 posted on 01/12/2013 3:57:52 AM PST by dforest
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To: Kaslin

Don’t cloud the issue with facts.


16 posted on 01/12/2013 4:01:01 AM PST by AppyPappy (You never see a massacre at a gun show.)
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To: Kaslin
That is as big of a lie and the Mayan end of the world. You Tube is replete with video evidence that once again... satan's laptop is directly networked to ed’s mouth... and such a dirty and evil mouth it is.

LLS

17 posted on 01/12/2013 4:06:25 AM PST by LibLieSlayer (FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS!)
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To: LibLieSlayer

About the Mayan prediction of the end of the world. All you have to do is go read the Bible and what Jesus said about it. Namely that no one knows when the end comes, not even he. Only the Father does


18 posted on 01/12/2013 4:18:19 AM PST by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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To: Plumberman27
Has anyone done a study on how this violence has increased dramatically since we started mainstreaming students with mental disabilities? How many of these mass shootings have occurred since the mentally deficient have been placed in the normal kids rooms? How many of these shooters have been on prescribed drugs to adjust their behavior isms? When will the psychiatrists be held responsible?

And not only that, Plumberm. when you get these kids mixed in with normal acheivers they are confronted daily with their inadaquacies ....they constantly see other kids 'fit in' and are constantly reminded that they are the class oddball/failures.....deep bewilderment sets in..... finally outright seething resentment results which leads to societal hatred and the urge to 'punish' their preceived 'tormenters'. OTHERS are, after all, the ones who've MADE THEM FEEL 'THIS' WAY....soon they get a gun and we're off to the races....another example of the terrible unintended consequences of libthink...


19 posted on 01/12/2013 4:27:15 AM PST by jimsin
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To: DemforBush

I nominate this, the second section, for common sense post of the day.

Do I see a second?


20 posted on 01/12/2013 4:31:17 AM PST by OriginalChristian (The end of America, as founded, began when the first Career Politician was elected...)
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To: Kaslin
Does anyone know who this hero is???

Probably not, which is unfortunate, but the reason you've never heard of her is because in 2010 she held a gunman at bay, until officers arrived and shot him.

Her name is Carolyn Gudger.


21 posted on 01/12/2013 4:40:30 AM PST by EBH ( The 2nd Amendment exists for times like this.)
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To: Plumberman27

Has anyone done a study on how this violence has increased dramatically since we started mainstreaming students with mental disabilities? How many of these mass shootings have occurred since the mentally deficient have been placed in the normal kids rooms? How many of these shooters have been on prescribed drugs to adjust their behavior isms? When will the psychiatrists be held responsible?


Good points...

Not only we give Special Rights to the mentally disabled when it comes to “mainstreaming”....but when they commit capital crimes, we cannot execute them because they are “mentally ill”. See that happening with the whack job in Aurora, CO movie theatre killings.

It is time to be realistic with the mentally deficient and stop mainstreaming them in our normal public functions


22 posted on 01/12/2013 4:41:09 AM PST by SeminoleCounty (The only automatic weapon is the one Obama uses to take your paycheck)
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To: EBH

Some days me and HTML just don’t get along...

Carolyn Gudger
http://www.dfwcatholic.org/armed-school-resource-officer-carolyn-gudger-stops-gunman-from-killing-school-principal-and-others-11422/.html


23 posted on 01/12/2013 4:44:50 AM PST by EBH ( The 2nd Amendment exists for times like this.)
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To: Kaslin

Another useful idiot.


24 posted on 01/12/2013 4:55:55 AM PST by Texas resident (I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on FR)
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To: re_nortex

Wish we could bring guns into church like Texas, but guns are banned in churches in Georgia.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-suit-on-ga-law-banning-guns-in-church-87925/


25 posted on 01/12/2013 4:58:51 AM PST by Atlantan
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To: Kaslin

Ed. I knew you were stupid, but you are even more stupid than I imagined.

The reason civilians have not stopped the most famous mass shootings is that they took place in locations where civilians were NOT allowed to carry guns. In other words, the bad guy was the ONLY person who had a gun!

Does that make sense to you?

What you said is equivalent to saying, “Lifeguards have not prevented a single drowning in places where there were no lifeguards. Therefore, we shouldn’t have lifeguards anywhere.”


26 posted on 01/12/2013 5:05:05 AM PST by Right Wing Assault (Dick Obama is more inexperienced now than he was before he was elected.)
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To: Plumberman27

Mass shootings are actually down. However I have heard that all of the shooters are taking drugs prescribed by their psychiatrists.

perhaps we should ban psychiatrists?


27 posted on 01/12/2013 5:14:40 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Right Wing Assault; All

You make a good point. Most mass shootings occur in gun free zones where armed citizens are not allowed.

Here are some incidents of mass killings stopped by armed citizens:

http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2012/12/mass-killings-stopped-by-armed-citizens.html

There are 15 incidents with links to sources, listed. Most are pretty clear, some more than others.


28 posted on 01/12/2013 5:15:22 AM PST by marktwain
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To: Plumberman27

No child left behind needs to be disestablished immediately. It is ridiculous to have mentally disturbed children in regular classrooms. I say reopen the facilities that take care of the mentally challenged and keep them there. However, ensure that the mentally challenged are not treated badly like they were when they were open back in the day. I think having facilities that are decent is possible but keep them there full time away from the public. We are having some weird epidemic on mental illness.....suddenly autism is in vogue...not sure where that suddenly reared it’s ugly head but perhaps having a facility where they live their lives in those would be the best option. Not getting rid of guns!


29 posted on 01/12/2013 5:17:27 AM PST by napscoordinator (GOP Candidate 2020 - "Bloomberg 2020 - We vote for whatever crap the GOP puts in front of us.")
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To: jimsin

Http://ssristories.com/index.PHP

This is a link to an astonishing list of shootings and the meds the shooters were using.


30 posted on 01/12/2013 5:51:47 AM PST by bk1000 (A clear conscience is a sure sign of a poor memory)
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To: Kaslin

Great post!

I’ like to know how many (and who they are!) of these rabid anti-FReedom jerks have their own armed security guards?

Would make a hellofapost!


31 posted on 01/12/2013 6:16:18 AM PST by Taxman (So that the beautiful pressure does not diminish!)
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To: Kaslin

Seems we have another example of allowing the libs to control the terms of the conversation.
The incidents in which an armed citizen interrupted a lunatic shooter and the death toll stays at three or less, generally would NOT be counted as ‘mass shooting’ incidents.
And, the frequency of mass shootings is such that the Feds don’t even track it as a statistic.

As long as we allow the socialists to set the terms of the debate, we will lose.


32 posted on 01/12/2013 6:25:16 AM PST by PubliusMM (RKBA; a matter of fact, not opinion. 01-20-2013: Still seeking change.)
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To: Kaslin

Some years ago, someone walked into a cafe in Texas and began shooting. Nobody in that cafe was armed, because they’d left their weapons out in their vehicles. (You can’t bring a firearm into a place that serves alcohol,)

How’d you feel if you were sipping a brewski there and then, and had left your pistol back under your car’s front seat? Chagrined?

The article needs updating, but see the Luby’s cafeteria entry: http://worldnews.about.com/od/crime/tp/Worlds-Worst-Mass-Shootings.htm


33 posted on 01/12/2013 6:25:28 AM PST by EnigmaPrime (Deep embarrassment for Texas and Texans.)
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To: bk1000

WOW, great site. Will add to favorites.


34 posted on 01/12/2013 6:36:28 AM PST by existentially_kuffer
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To: Kaslin
The study rules given require the result found.

If you look only at successful mass killings, you are looking at situations where it took time for a person with a gun to arrive and stop it. That is, you are only looking at situations where there was not a civilian with a gun on the spot.

The devil is in the details. And there is a lot of evil in the details of such a twisted study.

Of course, Ed Shultz was misusing the results, but that was the whole point of the study, to give folks like Crazy Eddy something to use to further gun control.

35 posted on 01/12/2013 6:51:54 AM PST by slowhandluke (It's hard to be cynical enough in this age.)
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To: Kaslin

Reminds me of Hazlitt’s advice about “what you don’t see” in economics.


36 posted on 01/12/2013 7:03:16 AM PST by HomeAtLast
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To: Kaslin

From the article...
“We identified and analyzed 62 of them, and one striking pattern is this: In not a single case was the killing stopped by a civilian using a gun.” (According to the criteria used in their research, a mass shooting is when the “shooter took the lives of at least four people.”)”

Well, duh, when a civilian stops a perp, there is no mass shooting to report!

Oh, and Ed, stick it in your ear and squeeze :)


37 posted on 01/12/2013 7:47:14 AM PST by GGpaX4DumpedTea (I am a Tea Party descendant...steeped in the Constitutional Republic given to us by the Founders.)
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To: jimsin

Interesting relics; probably belong in a museum or under the care of a railroad history group. Where was that photo made?


38 posted on 01/12/2013 9:06:10 AM PST by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias... "Barack": Allah's current ally...)
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To: Kaslin

Rigging the criteria to prove their point.


39 posted on 01/12/2013 9:09:23 AM PST by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: Kaslin

“No man knoweth the day or the hour”... which is why I called it a lie. You are 1000% correct... as usual.

LLS


40 posted on 01/12/2013 9:37:03 AM PST by LibLieSlayer (FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS!)
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To: Kaslin
Sounds like long-term use of crack.

Just sayin'...

41 posted on 01/12/2013 9:40:42 AM PST by hummingbird
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To: Drago
Well, there's one civilian blowhard who has shot and killed his own dog.

Somebody needs to disarm Sgt. Schultz and the rest of the libs.

42 posted on 01/12/2013 9:42:56 AM PST by Paladin2
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To: shibumi
"“gun free zones”

"Gun Free Zone" signs should already be at the recyclers.

ADT or other security services should be the norm... With signage all around the facilities in plain view.

With cameras all around the campus, I bet child sex abuse goes down, too.

When we had a new priest come to our Church, he immediately replaced wood doors with glass doors in the offices. No one could ever accuse him, or any of the staff, of any hijinks because they were visible through the glass.

Cameras all around the Church were installed - for reasons set up above and for stopping thieves.

I think the insurance policy assigned credits for taking these actions, so the policy cost went down. Win-win. "An armed society is a polite society." (don't have attribution, sorry)

43 posted on 01/12/2013 10:00:05 AM PST by hummingbird
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To: re_nortex
"Think of all the mass shootings that were deterred because of the armed good guys."

Why isn't there a database with these kinds of deterred mass shootings?

*snort*

And one is not likely to be set up unless someone like NRA, John Lott, etc. does it. Not already set up because it doesn't fit the anti's template.

44 posted on 01/12/2013 10:04:39 AM PST by hummingbird
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To: piytar
Tell that useless waste of skin directly: ed@edschultzshow.com

That deserved a re-post.

He needs to be overwhelmed with emails.

45 posted on 01/12/2013 10:52:14 AM PST by Washi (Socialism is Slavery)
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To: piytar

Shouldn’t he be called Mr. Ed? Certainly he resembles the Southern exposure of a horse traveling North


46 posted on 01/12/2013 11:24:58 AM PST by stocksthatgoup (ZERO DARK THIRTY (coming soon to an embassy near you))
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To: piytar

Shouldn’t he be called Mr. Ed? Certainly he resembles the Southern exposure of a horse traveling North


47 posted on 01/12/2013 11:25:06 AM PST by stocksthatgoup (ZERO DARK THIRTY (coming soon to an embassy near you))
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To: Kaslin

No, we never had a liberal tell the truth unless is served his interest.


48 posted on 01/12/2013 11:32:40 AM PST by bmwcyle (We have gone over the cliff and we are about to hit the bottom)
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To: Kaslin

The criteria was more than four people killed. These idiots truly don’t get that four or more weren’t killed BECAUSE the shooters were stopped by civilians.


49 posted on 01/12/2013 8:38:15 PM PST by Terry Mross (People who hate me read my posts and get angry. Yet they can't look away. Brilliant, huh.)
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To: Kaslin

Schultz demonstrates that at some point, stupidity is criminal.


50 posted on 01/12/2013 8:46:21 PM PST by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto!)
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