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Gun Control Down Under (Australia)
The Right Scoop ^ | January 14th, 2013 | Jen Kuznicki

Posted on 01/14/2013 11:29:41 AM PST by Mozilla

This video was sent to me by an Aussie friend, pleading with me to not allow ourselves to go the way of OZ. It has gotten so crazy there, that legislators are quibbling over the definition of a home invasion, so as not to admit that gun control has made Australians less safe.

Check out the video.

(Excerpt) Read more at therightscoop.com ...


TOPICS: Australia/New Zealand; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 2ndamendment; aussieguncontrol; australia; australiaguncontrol; banglist; guncontrol; guns; secondamendment
Very sad situation down in Australia as crime has skyrocketed since some gun bans. The bans are extreme enough that people have to turn them in the rifles or go to jail. Some people hide them, but have to unload the ammo and keep them locked away in safes. I don't think it is wise to move to Australia.
1 posted on 01/14/2013 11:29:45 AM PST by Mozilla
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To: SkyDancer

You have more experience than me SkyDancer, what do you think of this?


2 posted on 01/14/2013 11:33:52 AM PST by KC_Lion (Build the America you want to live in at your address, and keep looking up.-Sarah Palin)
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To: Mozilla
I don't think it is wise to move to Australia.

Not likely - in addition to the danger from crime when you can't defend yourself, I'd probably kill myself driving on the "wrong" side of the road.

3 posted on 01/14/2013 11:34:39 AM PST by grobdriver (Sic semper tyrannis!)
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To: grobdriver

Australia also has more than its fair share of deadly critters that sting and bite.


4 posted on 01/14/2013 11:46:32 AM PST by JPG (Stay strong.)
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To: Mozilla

Last week a Russian wrote some of the same kind of warning in Pravda... only worse. He spoke of the government shooting citizens after their guns were taken from them...

Our founding fathers knew scum would eventually rise to the top... and gave us a Constitution that would work to protect us IF we were willing to stand for our rights.


5 posted on 01/14/2013 11:47:16 AM PST by GOPJ (Obama GAVE guns to Mexican drug lords...Now he wants to TAKE our guns? It's wrong.)
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To: grobdriver
Driving on the 'wrong' side of the road isn't as hard as some folks make it out to be ...

OTOH, the Australians have made for themselves a much bigger government than I would like to live with. Even as a visitor, I found it intrusive and offensive.

6 posted on 01/14/2013 11:49:49 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Mozilla

Australia HAS gone to hell. My brother in law was a Lt. Commander in the Australian Navy. After retiring he married my wife’s sister and moved to the U.S. for about 15-20 years. This past year he decided to partially retire and head back to Australia. Reason given was his kids there and the health care system.

Well he got there and a few things happened. He was shocked to find out that a six pack of beer costs $24 (U.S.). He was shocked to find out that because he had been out of the country and despite his veteran status he was at the VERY BOTTOM of the list for people to get jobs. That did it for him, he moved back to the U.S. this past November. He says he’ll work here and go back there during our winters only.


7 posted on 01/14/2013 11:55:57 AM PST by TheRhinelander
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To: Mozilla

I have been lectured about how crazy we Americans are with our guns from a good mate of mine down under. I am interested in watching this vid..but need to get back from work first...


8 posted on 01/14/2013 12:07:17 PM PST by AndyTheBear
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To: grobdriver

the driving is easy to get used to. not having guns would be very difficult if not deadly.


9 posted on 01/14/2013 12:43:19 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: TheRhinelander

Wow. That country is heading the wrong direction. We need to end Obama before the US heads down Australia’s path.


10 posted on 01/14/2013 12:43:44 PM PST by Mozilla
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To: All

I would be cautious quoting any stats from that video as it appears to be fairly old. The Aussie crime rates have been up and down since 1994 (ban year) so people can cherry pick for the results they want to claim.


11 posted on 01/14/2013 12:56:13 PM PST by drbuzzard (All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others.)
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To: grobdriver

Heck, I almost died stepping off the curb - ‘cause I was looking the wrong way.


12 posted on 01/14/2013 1:25:52 PM PST by taxcontrol
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To: drbuzzard
The Aussie crime rates have been up and down since 1994

IOW, they could be higher now, or lower.

Like the report in the video says, the government is having a hard time deciding on what constitutes a home invasion. Would you trust a government like that with the figures they may report? Wouldn't the government be capable of making the figures look better than they really are. We in the U.S. have to put up with reports that tell us about 7.8% unemployment, but, most economists and the informed know that the true figure is a lot higher. Why would someone trust figures from a government which needs to make things look better than they really are?
13 posted on 01/14/2013 1:31:32 PM PST by adorno (Y)
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To: ArrogantBustard

I would have to agree that since the 70’s Australian Government has gotten larger and more intrusive. I am hoping the next elected conservative government will focus on this.

I do not see this supposed dramatic increase in crime that others seem to talk about and I work in the area. What we do have are certain groups - namely bikies and some Asian or Muslim groups that seem to prey on each other - more power too them - they can kill each other off for all I care. We also have a large alcohol/drinking culture which causes violence, sadly this is increasing and is starting to remind me of England.

The Bikies do have guns and kill each other and rarely does this spill into the public arena.

Mel


14 posted on 01/14/2013 1:32:48 PM PST by melsec (Once a Jolly Swagman camped by a Billabong....)
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To: TheRhinelander

$24 for a six pack - goodness gracious what was he drinking? Most cartons of 24 are $50-60 although you can pay as little as $35 for some on special. Yes if you wanted to buy some exotic or imported beer then you could pay that or more but why would you want to - we produce some great beer.

Mel


15 posted on 01/14/2013 1:39:44 PM PST by melsec (Once a Jolly Swagman camped by a Billabong....)
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To: adorno

True, it is probably valid to question the stats. But I have seen lefties posting information about AUS crime rates and claiming they are down now since the ban. Of course they did go up immediately after the ban, and it only took about 10+ years or so for any downward trend to start. That inclines be to believe the ban was irrelevant and that other factors have taken over.


16 posted on 01/14/2013 1:44:26 PM PST by drbuzzard (All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others.)
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To: melsec
I am hoping the next elected conservative government will focus on this.

Good luck with that. I hope they succeed in reducing the size, scope, and general presence of government. The feeling of having 'big brother' constantly looking over my shoulder was the one down-side of my visit. That and the bloody 'roo that bounced off my car ... I'll take the 'roo over the government any day.

That said, I never felt unsafe. I was also never around 'bikies', Asians (if by that you mean Pakistani, etc), or mohammedans.

17 posted on 01/14/2013 2:04:29 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: TheRhinelander
Reason given was his kids there and the health care system.

That is the EXACT Reason why My Mother and Father came to this Country instead of Returning to their home countries.

My Mother is from the U.K. and she did NOT want to risk having kids in the Horrid British Health Care system.

18 posted on 01/14/2013 2:06:15 PM PST by KC_Lion (Build the America you want to live in at your address, and keep looking up.-Sarah Palin)
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To: drbuzzard
it only took about 10+ years or so for any downward trend to start

However, how could anyone attribute the downward trend to a ban that occurred many years before? Could it be that, there are other factors at play, which might have caused the "downward trend"? Remember that, correlation is not causation. And ten years later? Chances are that, a few more years, it could be going up, and later it could be going down, which leads to the question: Was there really a trend when the figures aren't so reliable and they are getting influenced by other factors, with one of those factors being the messing around with the figures to make them look better than the actual.
19 posted on 01/14/2013 2:26:03 PM PST by adorno (Y)
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To: Mozilla

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/australia

In Australia, annual deaths resulting from firearms total

2010: 236
2009: 227
2008: 232
2007: 237
2006: 246
2005: 212
2004: 234
2003: 287
2002: 292
2001: 326
2000: 324
1999: 347
1998: 312
1997: 428
1996: 516
1995: 470
1994: 516
1993: 513
1992: 608
1991: 618
1990: 595
1989: 549
1988: 674
1987: 694
1986: 677
1985: 682
1984: 675
1983: 644
1982: 689
1981: 618
1980: 687
1979: 685

Considering that ‘gun deaths’ include accidents, suicides, homicides and deaths as a result of law enforcement officers carrying out their duties, I THINK YOU NEED TO RECONSIDER YOUR COMMENT.


20 posted on 01/14/2013 2:32:17 PM PST by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
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To: KC_Lion

RE: Home invasion.

Right now you have to convince the invader not to harm or take anything. (honest). Should you, the homeowner, resist to the point where the invader is injured you are brought up on charges. One incident several years ago and homeowner was charged with knifing the intruder. The homeowner got let off because it could not be determined who had the knife. Same goes for England. You hurt the perp (hey, that sorta rhymes) it’s your neck, not the invader. Of course you have to look at the country as being ubber-liberal. Coming soon to our shores.


21 posted on 01/14/2013 3:32:29 PM PST by SkyDancer (Live your life in such a way that the Westboro church will want to picket your funeral.)
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To: Mozilla
...I don't think it is wise to move to Australia...

And I would add, don't even think about it until you understand that it's totally pointless (if not downright dishonest) to compare our two different cultures on the basis of gun-laws.

22 posted on 01/14/2013 3:39:22 PM PST by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
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To: Mozilla
I did not know about this. There is a youngish Australian woman in my art class. Last Friday she was ranting about something needed to be done in the US about guns. I’m guessing she doesn’t know how bad things are in Australia either.
23 posted on 01/14/2013 3:40:18 PM PST by Ditter
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To: Ditter

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2978021/posts?page=20#20

how bad are they?


24 posted on 01/14/2013 3:45:57 PM PST by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
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To: Fred Nerks

I saw that after I commented on the video. Were all those people lying? What does Fair Dinkum mean?


25 posted on 01/14/2013 3:49:48 PM PST by Ditter
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To: Ditter

May I suggest, as an Australian, you tell the ‘youngish Australian woman’ to mind her own business, our nations have an entirely different weapons culture, and share nothing by way of history related to fire-arms.
Comparisons of this nature are useless and offensive to both.


26 posted on 01/14/2013 3:53:36 PM PST by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
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To: Ditter

Their comments are all strung together in a clever piece of propaganda, and yes, if you look at the gun death figures I provided ( or research the stats yourself) you will see there are several who are lying.
You’re being played.
But it doesn’t change the numbers.
And we are two different cultures.
Keep your guns, I believe that if I lived in the US, that is one of the FIRST things I would purchase.

FAIR DINKUM means the truth, the real thing...kinda.

Thus, I resent Australian crime being elevated to suit your situation, and the only way they can do this is with lying. THE NUMBERS THEMSELVES DON’T LIE.


27 posted on 01/14/2013 4:04:01 PM PST by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
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To: Ditter

P.S.

Why is it always Australia that is singled out when it comes to dicussions about fire-arm laws? Our public remains in the majority in agreement with the laws in place. The number of gun deaths in this country don’t warrant any lengthy discussion, the numbers are miniscule.
Why stick your nose into Australian laws, those who want to own a gun can do so, with certain restrictions and safety rules. There is no outcry here, that I am aware of.
Why don’t you go digging around a little closer to home, maybe Canada?
Or don’t they have a gun culture either?


28 posted on 01/14/2013 4:14:54 PM PST by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
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To: Fred Nerks
Considering that ‘gun deaths’ include accidents, suicides, homicides and deaths as a result of law enforcement officers carrying out their duties, I THINK YOU NEED TO RECONSIDER YOUR COMMENT.

"Gun deaths" are only part of the total crime picture. Focusing just on "gun deaths" paints a misleading picture. (I'm absolutely certain that some people, such as Piers Morgan, do this quite deliberately.)

The UK has a lower "gun death" rate than the US but also has a much higher rate of violent crime. Disarming victims gives criminals a free hand to assault them with knives, baseball bats, or just their fists. While these crimes obviously don't show up in the "gun deaths" totals, they are still very serious crimes. Banning guns won't eliminate them and can easily be expected to increase them.

29 posted on 01/14/2013 4:27:12 PM PST by Bob
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To: Bob

Speak for yourself, I understand what you write relates to your crime stats in the US.
Leave Australia out of it.
What I see continuously happening is that our culture and stats are manipulated to make them look WORSE than they are.
Deal with your own problems.
Australians are not, and should not, be telling you how to deal with your problems, and vice-versa.
WHY bring Australian laws into YOUR situation, which is primarilly one of DEMOGRAPHICS!


30 posted on 01/14/2013 4:36:51 PM PST by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
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To: Bob

You're going to believe what you want to believe.

Bogus Australian Post-Gun Ban Crime Info floating around the Internet and on Facebook

SEE ABOVE LINK.

31 posted on 01/14/2013 4:54:19 PM PST by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
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To: SkyDancer
Thank you for explaining that to me Janey.

I can't help but wonder that when a "Real" emergency or what have you comes to a country how long these liberal fantasies would endure.

Liberals can only exist in a time of plenty and relative peace, when the Rubber hits the road and Men (and women) have to do what they have to survive, those rules get thrown out mighty fast.

32 posted on 01/14/2013 4:58:22 PM PST by KC_Lion (Build the America you want to live in at your address, and keep looking up.-Sarah Palin)
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To: Fred Nerks
I would never tell the Aussie woman to mind her own business, she is a friend and we are on good terms, I will just change the subject.

As to your question of “Why Australia is singled out for gun discussion”. I didn't know that it was, I have never heard the subject brought up until now.

I have never been to Australia but I have been to New Zealand, I have cousins there. NZ is the most fabulously beautiful place I have ever been and I have a feeling that Australia is the same.

33 posted on 01/14/2013 5:37:02 PM PST by Ditter
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To: Ditter

Regretfully, Australia seems to get thrown in to the discussion about gun laws almost every time the subject comes up, as do the exaggerated crime statistics. I’ve been debunking that garbage for years, fair dinkum.


34 posted on 01/14/2013 5:42:41 PM PST by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
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To: SkyDancer

You might be living in our country, but you quite evidently do not understand our laws.


Self-defenceIn the South Australian Court of Criminal Appeal in R v Howe (1958) SASR 95, Mason J formulated six propositions on the law of self-defence were accepted as a model direction on self-defence in murder trials. Thus, a full acquittal was achieved if the jury found that the accused had reasonably believed they were threatened with death or serious bodily harm and, if so, that the force used was reasonably proportionate to the perceived danger. In Zecevic v Director of Public Prosecutions (Vic) (1987) 162 CLR 645 the victim rented a unit from the defendant. The defendant became increasingly annoyed with the victim who kept leaving the security gates of the unit unlocked. After one heated exchange, the defendant was stabbed by the tenant. The defendant, fearing that the tenant was about to get a gun from his car, rushed off and got his shotgun. The defendant returned, and shot and killed the tenant. The majority of the High Court said at 661:

The question to be asked in the end is quite simple. It is whether the accused believed upon reasonable grounds that it was necessary in self-defence to do what he did. If he had that belief and there were reasonable grounds for it, or if the jury is left in reasonable doubt about the matter, then he is entitled to an acquittal. Stated in this form, the question is one of general application and is not limited to cases of homicide.
In Conlon (1993) BFW 709 the accused used a shotgun to repel two trespassers whom he believed to be stealing his cannabis plants. His belief was affected by drunkenness and a schizoid personality disorder which were relevant to determine whether the Crown had proved that he had not acted in self defence: specifically whether he believed that it was necessary to do what he did and whether that was a reasonable belief. This question seems advantageous to the defence because it tests whether the belief is reasonable to the accused (a subjective test), not reasonable to the reasonable person (objective test).

Under South Australian law, the general defence appears in s15(1) Criminal Law Consolidation Act 1935 (SA) for defending a person’s life, and s15A(1) for defending property, subject to a hybrid test, i.e. the defendant honestly believed the threat to be imminent and made an objectively reasonable and proportionate response to the circumstances as the accused subjectively perceived them.

No 28 of 2003—Criminal Law Consolidation (Self Defence) Amendment Act 2003 [1] In July 2003, the Rann Government (SA) introduced laws allowing householders to use “whatever force they deem necessary” when confronted with a home invader. Householders who kill or injure a home invader escape prosecution provided they can prove they had a genuine belief that it was necessary to do so to protect themselves or their family.


35 posted on 01/14/2013 5:51:55 PM PST by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
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To: Fred Nerks
So if you say “fair dinkum” at the end of a statement, it is the same as saying “no lie!” ?

Is dinkum an English word? Where does this originate?

36 posted on 01/14/2013 5:55:21 PM PST by Ditter
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To: Ditter
...I would never tell the Aussie woman to mind her own business, she is a friend and we are on good terms, I will just change the subject...

Maybe when she's lived in the US long enough she'll understand better. Meanwhile, I see no harm in reminding her that making critical comments about your host country isn't always welcome. People who say things like 'you really should do something about that' generally means they have no idea...or have given no thought to the issue. It's just rhetoric.

37 posted on 01/14/2013 5:58:42 PM PST by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
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To: Ditter
I have no idea of the origin, sorry. But I do know what it means...for example, if you were to tell me an obvious lie, I could say fair dinkum? and I would be saying I don't believe you...

Here you go:

What are the origins of the phrase "fair dinkum" and how did it come to mean what it does?January 22, 2005

According to Melvyn Bragg's The Adventure of English: The Biography of a Language, "dinkum" comes from the English Midlands and meant work. "Fair dinkum" referred to a fair day's work and subsequently fair play.

M. Griffiths, Waterloo

The word "dinkum" was reputedly coined on the Australian goldfields. It comes from one of the Chinese dialects widely spoken at the diggings: "din" and "kum" loosely translating as "true gold".

Catherine Le Breton, Leura

Fair Dinkum was a response of the early Chinese goldminers to the question: "Are you finding a fair amount of gold?" because "din-gum" means "good gold". So over time the expression has become a positive response to a good news story.

38 posted on 01/14/2013 6:05:47 PM PST by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
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To: Fred Nerks
Thank you so much! My husbands cousin says “fair dinkum” and I asked him once what it meant and he only smiled and waved. That's great “fair dinkum”!
39 posted on 01/14/2013 6:17:04 PM PST by Ditter
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To: Fred Nerks

What can I say? I read it in the Courier-Mail. Yell at them.


40 posted on 01/14/2013 6:22:39 PM PST by SkyDancer (Live your life in such a way that the Westboro church will want to picket your funeral.)
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To: grobdriver
"I'd probably kill myself driving on the "wrong" side of the road. "

I worry that in an emergency situation, I'd respond the wrong way. The everyday stuff would be OK with full attention.

41 posted on 01/14/2013 8:49:32 PM PST by Paladin2
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To: taxcontrol
"Heck, I almost died stepping off the curb - ‘cause I was looking the wrong way."

Having spent a fair amount of time crossing the streets in Boston, I'm still used to looking both ways on one way (and all) streets....

42 posted on 01/14/2013 8:57:36 PM PST by Paladin2
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To: Paladin2
The everyday stuff would be OK with full attention.

Well, see, that's just it. We don't always drive with full attention. Distractions abound.

We lost all of the officers from one of our P-3 crews near Sydney in 1982. They had flown in to the Aussie base there and took a base car out to dinner. Leaving, the O driving did the American look left-clear-drive into right-hand lane... right into a head on with a sheep tractor-trailer rig.
Took them all out.

I'll never forget it.

43 posted on 01/15/2013 3:45:53 AM PST by grobdriver (Sic semper tyrannis!)
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To: Fred Nerks

I think you’re being a little over-sensitive here. I’ve been on FreeRepublic for years, and have only seen Australia come up in gun law discussions maybe a few times. If anything, we usually focus on the UK as the example of what not to do. As for Canadians, I think we just ignore them because they are so busy trying not to be Americans that we don’t expect them to be reasonable about anything.


44 posted on 01/15/2013 4:51:43 AM PST by fr_freak
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To: fr_freak

http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/current%20series/tandi/261-280/tandi269/view%20paper.html


45 posted on 01/15/2013 1:58:09 PM PST by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
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To: Fred Nerks

Post-script:

Seems to me, you’re the one with the problem, yet it’s far too common to see the UK, Canada and Australia being pointed to as having major crime issues. May I suggest you, in the US, deal with your own, and when you have solved the crime problem you have, get back to us?

Inflating Australian crime numbers isn’t going to have an iota of effect on yours. Fair Dinkum!


46 posted on 01/15/2013 2:11:04 PM PST by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
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To: GOPJ
Our founding fathers knew scum would eventually rise to the top

They knew what was going on in Europe during their time. And eventually free Americans had to go and save their ungrateful butts from tyrants.

47 posted on 01/15/2013 2:32:56 PM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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