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McCrystal Shoots Off His Mouth Again: We Should Look at Banning Weapons that are Already Banned
PJ Media ^ | 1-14-2013 | Bryan Preston

Posted on 01/14/2013 1:07:24 PM PST by smoothsailing

January 14, 2013

McCrystal Shoots Off His Mouth Again: We Should Look at Banning Weapons that are Already Banned

Bryan Preston

Last week, retiring Gen. Stanley McCrystal made a stir when he suggested that America ought to take a look at enacting new gun control laws. Specifically, McCrystal said he supports banning military firearms such as M4 and M16 rifles. Such weapons are already banned from civilian ownership except in very few cases, and have been since 1934. Such weapons have played no role in any of the recent shootings that have been in the national headlines.

Appearing on America’s Radio News today with Chris Salcedo, Gen. McCrystal reiterated his stance. You may listen to the full interview at the link.

“I carried an assault weapon for many years, an M4 carbine. I think it’s the best weapon of its type in the world. Shoots a 5.56 round at 3000 feet per second. When it hits human flesh, it’s devastating. And if you see it up close, you know you don’t want it around our schools, you don’t want it on our streets.”

The M4 is not on our streets, at least not legally as a fully automatic weapon. The 5.56 round is fired by many other rifles besides the M4. It is similar in size to the .223 round, and is on the smaller side of rifle rounds that are available to civilians. The devastation an M4 brings upon its target is as much a result of its fully automatic fire rate as from its ammunition.

Gen. McCrystal continued: “I’m not an expert on gun control or the Second Amendment, but I am an expert on that kind of weapon. And I’m an expert on how I feel about my family. So what I want is a national conversation, a mature national conversation, that figures out how we protect innocent people from that kind of weaponry.”

How mature can that conversation be, when so many of its most prominent participants know nothing about current gun laws and refuse to learn anything about them? They admit that they know nothing, as McCrystal does here, yet opine anyway.

Host Chris Salcedo pointed out that with our porous border and lack of ability to control the illegal drug trade, only criminals will have firepower if civilians cannot legally own it.

“Think about the children of Newtown,” McCrystal said in reply. “That is not a philosophical argument. That’s a bloody reality, and that’s the kind of thing that I want us to talk about.”

The Second Amendment is also not a philosophical argument. It is a constitutional guarantee.

The weapons that Gen. McCrystal consistently brings up are already banned. They played no role in the recent shootings. They are not among the most powerful available, no matter what the weapons look like. They factor in fewer murderers per year than hammers do. Proper incarceration of murders would have saved the lives of the two firefighters murdered in New York State, by a felon who reportedly used a straw purchaser to obtain his weapons. An armed guard or faculty member would have had the chance to save all those children at Sandy Hook from an armed madman. “Gun Free Zone” signs may as well be painted to look like targets, for all the good they do in protecting innocent life.

Do the facts have any place in this “mature” discussion, General?


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist; guncontrol; secondamendment

1 posted on 01/14/2013 1:07:30 PM PST by smoothsailing
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To: smoothsailing

Sorry, the author is wrong. Automatic weapons are not banned. They only require a tax stamp to possess. It does not do our side any favors if we accuse others of being ignorant of gun laws and then we show ignorance ourselves.


2 posted on 01/14/2013 1:11:01 PM PST by taxcontrol
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To: smoothsailing

Hey, let’s make a law to make those people coming to America without going through proper channels, criminals.


3 posted on 01/14/2013 1:15:17 PM PST by Lucky9teen (Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading.~Thomas Jeffer)
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To: smoothsailing

He’s a media whore. They are all over the Army and at all levels. They constantly get in the way and their number one concern is getting maximum publicity while minimally accomplishing the mission. Usually, lower levels have to work harder to make up for their BS.


4 posted on 01/14/2013 1:15:24 PM PST by cizinec ("Brother, your best friend ain't your Momma, it's the Field Artillery.")
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To: smoothsailing

Reading the headline, one thinks of Shakespeare’s :

To be or not to be, that is the question!

A patriot, that is.

Of course, the good general is singing 0kakenyan’s praises for a few lib interviews and dollars by NOT being a patriot. That, will sell his book.


5 posted on 01/14/2013 1:20:51 PM PST by melancholy (Professor Alinsky, Enslavement Specialist, Ph.D. in L0w and H0lder)
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To: smoothsailing
I was listening to Peoples' Radio "On the Media [from the left]" yesterday. At the end they gave out some corrections from previous shows.

Guy said he had many letters criticizing him for saying the students at Sandy Hook were killed with an automatic weapon. He said technically a semi-automatic weapon was used but he was sticking with his usage since "weapons experts" use the two words interchangeably.

I almost drove off the road. Amazing willful ignorance.

6 posted on 01/14/2013 1:21:24 PM PST by DManA
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To: smoothsailing
“Think about the children of Newtown,” McCrystal said in reply. “That is not a philosophical argument. That’s a bloody reality, and that’s the kind of thing that I want us to talk about.”

McCrystal is ceding the battles on logic, law, and constitutionalism and demands that any debate be solely on emotionalism.

Disarm the law abiding populace, and ensure only that the military and police have guns.

Spoken like a general.

7 posted on 01/14/2013 1:25:38 PM PST by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: taxcontrol

He stated at the beginning of the article “except in a very few cases” and that is CORRECT.

In addition, McMoron banters on about the M-4, which was developed in the 1990s. So if you can show me a single M-4 that was registered in 1986 as a machine gun and is legally in the hands of a civilian, I can sell you my house in Houston with a beautiful view of the mountains.

If you think you can just run out and buy a 240B if you just get a tax stamp, you’ve got another thing coming.


8 posted on 01/14/2013 1:26:17 PM PST by cizinec ("Brother, your best friend ain't your Momma, it's the Field Artillery.")
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To: smoothsailing

It’s all about public perception. If the oppressors can convince the public that there are lots of machineguns out there, they will accept “meaningful, reasonable gun control” like banning all semi-autos.

The people are kept deliberately ignorant of even simple gun issues (this is why they always say “clip”).

The distinction between full-auto and semi-auto has been deliberately blurred, so when this guy says we must ban something that is already banned, the public will agree to new controls on just about any gun.


9 posted on 01/14/2013 1:28:19 PM PST by DBrow
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To: taxcontrol

” Automatic weapons are not banned. “

If they are manufactured after 1986, they are, like the A4. Plus many states do not allow Class 3 weapons.


10 posted on 01/14/2013 1:30:27 PM PST by DBrow
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To: taxcontrol

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_a_civilian_own_a_M16_rifle


11 posted on 01/14/2013 1:32:46 PM PST by smoothsailing
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To: smoothsailing

Part of his oath of office:

“I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foriegn and domestic;”

I wonder if he realizes the 2nd Amendment is included in that?

And that 2nd Amendment was enacted so the People could defend themselves against a tyrannical government?

He’s certainly no expert on the Constitution.


12 posted on 01/14/2013 1:33:13 PM PST by jazusamo ("Mercy to the guilty is cruelty to the innocent." -- Adam Smith)
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To: smoothsailing

He is on Michael Dead Head radio now. What an ass hat, kiss up to Obama.


13 posted on 01/14/2013 1:34:26 PM PST by KeyLargo
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To: cizinec

You are forgetting that you can manufacture you own firearms including M4s. You cant sell them or transport them across state lines but you can make them for yourself.


14 posted on 01/14/2013 1:34:37 PM PST by taxcontrol
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To: jazusamo

I think he’s sucking up to the left so he can sell his damn book. What a disappointing jerk he’s turned out to be. Maybe he’s suffering from CPS. Colin Powell Syndrome.


15 posted on 01/14/2013 1:41:50 PM PST by smoothsailing
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To: smoothsailing

“Shoots a 5.56 round at 3000 feet per second. When it hits human flesh, it’s devastating.”

A 300 WIN Mag and a 308 WIN both can travel at or near this speed and yes they are devastating as well fired from a bolt action and not a scary black rifle with an assault sling on it.

Are we to ban firearms based on speed of the round now?

Pretty soon we are going to be chunking hi precision bullets with sling shots.


16 posted on 01/14/2013 1:43:12 PM PST by eartick (Been to the line in the sand and liked it)
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To: smoothsailing

And more bragadoccio, how many people has McChrystol personally shot? He’s another of the technocrats with sof patches. He is another of our pussy generals. Zipping around with rolling stone reporters in his gulfstream jet to Paris to dine with NATO diplomats. (while making sure grunts in Afghanistan had access to pizza and burgers taken away at main bases. Supposedly mres make them feel like warriors)

Id like to see his emails to the Tampa housewife socialite, Korean diplomat,,,,like allens and petraeuses,,, there’s no way he was in the same position as them, and wasn’t writing her every day.


17 posted on 01/14/2013 1:46:10 PM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: taxcontrol
Not quite true. Fully TRANSFERRABLE new full autos have been banned for sale to individual civilians since 1986. New NFA firearms can be purchased by bona fide LEOs, Class III dealer's (”dealer samples”) or a trust (the trust owns the gun and not an individual).

Older NFA guns that were papered before the 1986 effective date can be transferred to individuals, but this is a finite pool that is shrinking (guns wear out or self-destruct). Prices on these guns are going out of sight and previous owners add the $200 tax stamp to the price asked. On transfer, the new owner pays for a new $200 tax stamp + the price of the gun + dealer paperwork.

18 posted on 01/14/2013 1:48:59 PM PST by MasterGunner01
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To: smoothsailing

Agreed...He is a disappointing jerk and most assuredly suffers CPS and not just recently. I was really suspicious when the ROE were amended in Afghanistan and he supported them. Those ROE have gotten a lot of Soldiers and Marines killed and wounded.


19 posted on 01/14/2013 1:53:45 PM PST by jazusamo ("Mercy to the guilty is cruelty to the innocent." -- Adam Smith)
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To: smoothsailing
I’m not an expert on gun control or the Second Amendment

Shouldn't he have some idea what he swore to uphold?

20 posted on 01/14/2013 1:56:09 PM PST by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: taxcontrol
A technicality ~ very difficult to get the opportunity to pay that tax.

It does our side no good to simply ignore the fact that fully automatic weapons are, in general, not available to the average purchaser EVER!

BTW, taking some electrical wiring supports, strap together 5 green lasers. Rig them so they fire simultaneously.

There, you have a very dangerous weapon.

Sure, the worst it will do is cook some retinas, but that's all you need. You can buy them at walmart.

21 posted on 01/14/2013 1:57:03 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: MasterGunner01; taxcontrol

“You may only own a M16 or other fully automatic machine gun that was manufactured and registered with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives (BATFE) before May 19, 1986. Fully automatic weapons manufactured after that date are not currently legal for civilian ownership. Because of the 1986 cut off, fully automatic weapons that were registered before that date sell for exorbitant prices.

An individual purchasing a “ National Firearms Act Weapon “, NFA weapon or class 3 fully automatic weapon is required to pay a one time, $200 Federal Excise Tax fee. To obtain an NFA weapon, you must first select one. The reason is, forms are required to transfer the weapon from seller to buyer, requiring specific information. There are several types of forms to accommodate these transfers. A form “3”, accommodates dealer to dealer transfers (Class 3, in or out of state). A form “4”, accommodates dealer to individual transfers, within the state. Unlicensed individuals may not transfer class 3 weapons directly into their state. An active Class 3 license is required to execute the transfer. If you hold an active standard FFL, you may transfer the weapon in directly, however the law enforcement signature, photographs, and fingerprint cards are still required, as well as the $200 FET. The form “4” is quite simple. It will be filled out in duplicate by your Class 3 dealer, showing the current owner of the weapon and address, your name and address, description of the weapon and serial number, etc.. You will be given the forms, along with a set of fingerprint cards. On the back of the form is a place for your photograph and your local law enforcement official’s signature. If you are transferring the NFA weapon to your corporation, this Law Enforcement signature is not required. After you have obtained an official signature, return the forms along with your photographs (taped to the back), your fingerprint cards, and your check for $200, (payable to The Department of the Treasury) to your dealer. All of this information, along with the FET fee, will be forwarded to the BATF and they will begin the process of transferring the ownership of the weapon to your name or corporation.”

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_a_civilian_own_a_M16_rifle


22 posted on 01/14/2013 1:57:50 PM PST by smoothsailing
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To: MasterGunner01

You are correct about the TRANSFERABLE. However, you can make your own NON-TRANSFERABLE firearms. You still have to fire the proper paperwork and get the tax stamp and all.


23 posted on 01/14/2013 1:59:56 PM PST by taxcontrol
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To: dead
Then they wonder why when the enemy pulls up at the town gates and demands we send out the 20 top notables, we pull the plug on the generals first.

Sorry General, the Hundred Year's War is being revived and you gotta' get out there ~ uh, take some of your stuff too. They like that!

24 posted on 01/14/2013 2:00:13 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: taxcontrol

Not full auto. Try it, you’ll find yourself in prison.


25 posted on 01/14/2013 2:02:14 PM PST by gunner03
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To: taxcontrol

Yes, you can manufacture an AR-15 with a short barrel and CALL it an M-4, but you can’t make it select fire. You can call it what you want, but that ain’t an M-4, that’s a short-barrel AR-15.

Even if you could, why the heck would you want to? I always thought the 3 round burst was retarded and never used it. Well, I used it once.


26 posted on 01/14/2013 2:02:28 PM PST by cizinec ("Brother, your best friend ain't your Momma, it's the Field Artillery.")
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To: eartick
Well said.

As far as high velocity .22 rounds go the 22-250 has been around at least 60 years.

First as a wildcat cartridge and then as the 22-250 Remington. It puts a 55gr. bullet out at 3650 fps and does tremendous damage as a varmint round, hate to think what it would do to a human.

There are other 22 cal center fires that are comparable or faster than the 5.56 round.

27 posted on 01/14/2013 2:03:20 PM PST by jazusamo ("Mercy to the guilty is cruelty to the innocent." -- Adam Smith)
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To: MasterGunner01

So a trust can buy a new full auto? I thought not.


28 posted on 01/14/2013 2:05:11 PM PST by cizinec ("Brother, your best friend ain't your Momma, it's the Field Artillery.")
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To: smoothsailing
In general, you are correct. However there is one statement that is incorrect.

Fully automatic weapons manufactured after that date are not currently legal for civilian ownership

This is an incorrect statement. TRANSFER or sale of a firearm manufactured after 1986 is prohibited. Self manufacture of NON-TRANSFERABLE firearms is not prohibited. Still have to have the proper paperwork and tax stamp though.

29 posted on 01/14/2013 2:05:56 PM PST by taxcontrol
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To: smoothsailing

What is the difference between McChrystal arguing for disarming the populace and Soviet, Chinese, German or Cambodian Generals arguing for disarming their populaces? Not a damn thing.


30 posted on 01/14/2013 2:10:18 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: cizinec

I have not been able to verify this about trusts, but I heard it might be applicable in certain circumstances. I don’t know if this is true or what restrictions might apply if true. Any Class III dealers out there?


31 posted on 01/14/2013 2:15:28 PM PST by MasterGunner01
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To: taxcontrol

Now you’re just moving the goal posts.

You’re gonna end up quibbling with your own nitpicks,

...or nitpicking your own quibbles! HA!


32 posted on 01/14/2013 2:21:32 PM PST by smoothsailing
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To: jazusamo
I was really suspicious when the ROE were amended in Afghanistan and he supported them.

When a local guardsman I know referred to McC as "Taliban Stan," I asked him what was up with that? He proceeded to school me.

Mr. niteowl77

33 posted on 01/14/2013 2:23:23 PM PST by niteowl77 (Oh, crap.)
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To: taxcontrol
TRANSFER or sale of a firearm manufactured after 1986 is prohibited. Self manufacture of NON-TRANSFERABLE firearms is not prohibited. Still have to have the proper paperwork and tax stamp though.

I think you'd require an FFL / Manufacturer's license, and any NFA build application would require some documentation showing that the firearm was being made for a federal or state agency. Lacking that documentation, you would not get the tax stamp.

34 posted on 01/14/2013 2:25:01 PM PST by Charles Martel (Endeavor to persevere...)
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To: smoothsailing
Yesterday on my may to work the CBS AM radio affiliate in my city reported repeatedly that one of the measures Biden was thinking of was banning “high capacity ammunition”.

I kid you not. They repeated the story twice on my way to work.

Are people really that stupid? It is like the movie “Anchorman” where Will Farrell's character reads whatever is on the teleprompter.

35 posted on 01/14/2013 2:29:38 PM PST by Gabrial (The nightmare will continue as long as the nightmare is in the Whitehouse.)
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To: Gabrial
Are people really that stupid?

Yep.

36 posted on 01/14/2013 2:34:59 PM PST by smoothsailing
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To: jazusamo

The ROE change was a disgrace. Wasn’t Petraeus behind that as well?


37 posted on 01/14/2013 2:38:42 PM PST by smoothsailing
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To: Gabrial
Are people really that stupid?

I was bantering with a "professional LEO" on LinkedIn who used that same terminology. He couldn't define "high capacity ammunition" either.

Yes, they really are that stupid.

38 posted on 01/14/2013 2:49:18 PM PST by Sarajevo (Don't think for a minute that this excuse for a President has America's best interest in mind.)
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To: smoothsailing

Yes, I believe it was Petraeus’ brainstorm but McCrystal backed it 100%, might have been a duel brainstorm.


39 posted on 01/14/2013 2:50:49 PM PST by jazusamo ("Mercy to the guilty is cruelty to the innocent." -- Adam Smith)
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To: taxcontrol

SOME states allow citizens to own automatic weapons, not all. And getting a tax stamp is a lengthy, onerous, process that is a pretty effective ban in itself. Otherwise, you are right. We should be as accurate as possible.


40 posted on 01/14/2013 3:02:16 PM PST by Miguel Alberto
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To: Gabrial

...“high capacity ammunition”...

That ditty was in the first sentence of the WaCompost’s lead anti-gun article, last Thursday or Friday.


41 posted on 01/14/2013 3:02:37 PM PST by carriage_hill (AR-15s are the 21st Century's Muskets. Self-Defense is The First Human Right.)
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To: taxcontrol
Sorry, the author is wrong. Automatic weapons are not banned. They only require a tax stamp to possess. It does not do our side any favors if we accuse others of being ignorant of gun laws and then we show ignorance ourselves.

And you are somewhere between right and wrong. You are correct in that the 1934 NFA did NOT ban machine guns. It created the ATF which established rules for issuing $200 excise tax stamps and a process requiring you to file a completed ATF Form 4 which entails background checks, fingerprints, mugshots, and a sign off by the chief law enforcement officer in your county/parish. Here is a copy for you to read, filling it out is like a "Kabuki Dance".
http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5320-4.pdf

It has been unlawful since 1934 (The National Firearms Act) for civilians to own machine guns without special permission from the U.S. Treasury Department (old news, ATF is now under DOJ). Machine guns are subject to a $200 tax every time their ownership changes from one federally registered owner to another, and each new weapon is subject to a manufacturing tax when it is made, and it must be registered with the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms and Explosives (ATF) in its National Firearms Registry.

To become a registered owner, a complete FBI background investigation is conducted, checking for any criminal history or tendencies toward violence, and an application must be submitted to the ATF including two sets of fingerprints, a recent photo, a sworn affidavit that transfer of the NFA firearm is of "reasonable necessity," and that sale to and possession of the weapon by the applicant "would be consistent with public safety." The application form also requires the signature of a chief law enforcement officer with jurisdiction in the applicant's residence.

Here is where you really went astray. Firearms Owners' Protection Act of May 19,1986 has banned the sale of fully automatic weapons produced AFTER that date. The effect of this law is to limit the total number of machine guns available to "collectors" to a finite number, those produced before 19 May 1986. Thus M-16s and M-4 carbines produced before that date are NFA legal to sell under the procedures established by the NFA of 1934. Being that there are a fixed quantity and an increasing supply of dollars chasing these items, the price is very high and continues to rise. Pre '86 ban machine guns are now considered an investment. M-16s in this category are going for $17,000.00 to $20,000.00. Anything produced since the ban is not an NFA item and not available to civilians.

Since the Firearms Owners' Protection Act of May 19, 1986, ownership of newly manufactured machine guns has been prohibited to civilians. Machine guns which were manufactured prior to the Act's passage are regulated under the National Firearms Act, but those manufactured after the ban cannot ordinarily be sold to or owned by civilians.

(Sources: talk.politics.guns FAQ, part 2, "FAQ on National Firearms Act Weapons", and from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms,and Explosives (ATF) National Firearms Act FAQ. See also, "The Firearms Owners' Protection Act: A Historical and Legal Perspective" [Hardy, 1986]) )

Regards,
GtG

PS This particularly twisted piece of legislation applies only to fully automatic weapons. Short barreled rifles and shotguns, suppressors, "destructive devices" (bore greater than 0.50"), and "any other weapon" (catch all category for things like cane guns, palm guns, pen guns, pipe (smoking) guns, holsters that let you fire the enclosed pistol w/o removing it, &c, &c.) These appear to be legitimate NFA items that do not fall under the 1986 ban. They still require an excise tax stamp ($200.00 for all except "any other...", $5.00 for that one) and they require that you file a completed ATF Form 4 with fingerprints, mugshot, and signoff from chief LEO and your NFA Dealer. Lots of ATF rules apply to how and where you can travel with your NFA item. Don't plan on taking it across State lines w/o telling ATF first. You must tell them if you move your place of residence. There all sorts of niggling little details that you must observe when the owner of a NFA item, screw up and forfeit your new toy, pay a fine and face a possible felony conviction.

42 posted on 01/14/2013 3:15:08 PM PST by Gandalf_The_Gray (I live in my own little world, I like it 'cuz they know me here.)
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To: Gandalf_The_Gray
Here is where you really went astray. Firearms Owners' Protection Act of May 19,1986 has banned the sale of fully automatic weapons produced AFTER that date.

I have never said anything that was in opposition to the above statement. I did say (and correctly so) that a person can self make a NON-TRANSFERABLE machine gun (still subject to ATF form 2, tax stamp, etc).
43 posted on 01/14/2013 3:26:09 PM PST by taxcontrol
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To: taxcontrol
You are forgetting that you can manufacture you own firearms including M4s. You cant sell them or transport them across state lines but you can make them for yourself.

Yes you can manufacture your own firearm but the 1986 ban prevents you from "manufacturing" an M-4 full auto. See my post 42. If you do attempt to build a semi-auto only M-4 keep the barrel length 16" or greater lest you inadvertently build a "short barreled rifle" which is an NFA item and gets you are in trouble DEEP. Owning both a short barrel and a legal-length rifle could be construed as intent to build an illegal, unregistered SBR.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-short-barreled-rifles-shotguns.html

ATF has volumes of information available regarding NFA items, it's best to read up on this stuff before you venture forth.

Regards,
GtG

44 posted on 01/14/2013 4:05:32 PM PST by Gandalf_The_Gray (I live in my own little world, I like it 'cuz they know me here.)
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To: smoothsailing

As Stanley said, “I’m not an expert on the Second Amendment or gun control.....”

Well, I’m not an expert on aholes but I’m convinced McChrystal is one of the biggest ones on the face of the Earth.


45 posted on 01/14/2013 4:12:01 PM PST by july4thfreedomfoundation (November 6, 2012.....A day that will live in infamy!)
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To: smoothsailing

The Wesley Clark of the 21st century. What a tool.


46 posted on 01/14/2013 4:14:33 PM PST by Tijeras_Slim
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To: taxcontrol
Here is where you really went astray. Firearms Owners' Protection Act of May 19,1986 has banned the sale of fully automatic weapons produced AFTER that date. I have never said anything that was in opposition to the above statement. I did say (and correctly so) that a person can self make a NON-TRANSFERABLE machine gun (still subject to ATF form 2, tax stamp, etc).

If I'm reading you correctly, you assert that you can build a one off machine gun by filing an ATF Form 2, paying the Special (Occupational) Tax which is required by the NFA to be paid by a Federal firearms licensee engaged in the business of manufacturing, importing, or dealing in NFA firearms.

It appears that in order to correctly file the Form 2 you are going to need an FFL as a manufacturer of class III items.

In short you are going to become a licensed manufacturer of firearms to produce one gun which you can not sell? When you've invested that much you may as well open a business and go pro!

Take a look at form 1, it seems more to be what you need for this hypothetical one off project.

G

47 posted on 01/14/2013 6:42:31 PM PST by Gandalf_The_Gray (I live in my own little world, I like it 'cuz they know me here.)
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