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Getting a gun in Chicago quick and easy
chicago sun times ^ | 1-2013 | frank main

Posted on 01/15/2013 7:39:03 PM PST by doug from upland

Want to know how to get a gun?

Just ask Chris.

The skinny teen attends high school in Chicago and is a talented athlete. But he’s also a notorious gunslinger.

As a shooter in a South Side gang, he can get his hands on a gun as quick as you can get a burger at a fast-food restaurant.

“I will make a call and say I need a gun. I will ride down the street on my bike and get it — five minutes.”

The Chicago Sun-Times sat down with Chris for a lesson on how gangs get guns. Armed gangs like Chris’ have driven up Chicago’s murder total 28 percent above the tally at this time last year. And Chris is on the front lines of the shooting.

“For your ’hood, you can’t stop [getting] guns because it’s war season. A gang need any gun it can get,” said the teen, who has worked as an informant for police and asked for anonymity. The Sun-Times is identifying him by an alias.

‘Gun guys’

He knows men whose full-time job in the underground economy is to buy guns from suburban stores and illegally sell them to criminals.

Chris calls them the “gun guys.” The cops have another name for them: “straw purchasers.”

“Gun guys” have clean records allowing them to obtain Illinois firearm owner’s identification cards. With FOID cards, they can legally buy guns at stores in the suburbs.

Then they illegally sell them to gang members banned from owning guns because of their criminal backgrounds.

Most of the guns recovered in crimes in Chicago were bought in suburban gun stores, according to a new University of Chicago Crime Lab study of police gun-trace data.

(Excerpt) Read more at suntimes.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Illinois
KEYWORDS: banglist; chicago; gangs; guncontrol; guns; illinois; secondamendment
The straw buyer problem is causing lots of death in Chicago. How does law enforcement solve the problem without infringing on 2nd Amendment rights?
1 posted on 01/15/2013 7:39:06 PM PST by doug from upland
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To: doug from upland

From what I have been told much of the problem of straw buying is that the prosecutors consistently allow them to plea bargain down to minor offenses (even down to misdemeanors) which don’t restrict their future right to buy a gun.

Rather defeats the purpose of the law now doesn’t it?

So how do we deal with straw purchases? We enforce the laws properly that already exist.


2 posted on 01/15/2013 7:48:43 PM PST by drbuzzard (All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others.)
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To: doug from upland

Black Markets bring in crime...

Black markets are created when desirable objects are banned..


3 posted on 01/15/2013 7:50:34 PM PST by GraceG
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To: doug from upland

Straw purchasers or not, the problem still remains the recipient of the guns. Those guns didn’t hit the streets and start shooting people. They required a criminal to run the trigger.


4 posted on 01/15/2013 7:52:00 PM PST by umgud
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To: doug from upland

Maybe by making him take a gun safety course. and requiring a waiting period of several weeks. Would impede the traffic anyway.


5 posted on 01/15/2013 7:52:48 PM PST by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: umgud

We have something worse than criminals. We have outlaws. people who live outside the normal rules of society.


6 posted on 01/15/2013 7:54:34 PM PST by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: doug from upland

maybe it’s “straw buyers” maybe it’s not. Maybe it’s “Fast and Furious - Chicago Style”


7 posted on 01/15/2013 7:59:04 PM PST by RFEngineer
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To: doug from upland

Conservatives and supporters of the 2nd amendment the Obama regime is using the 2nd amendment argument to blame gun owners for its inability to deal with the hundreds of gangland murders and shootings commited in areas under their solid control using illegally obtained firearms. Their solution to those inner city problems is to remove those rights provided by the constitution to have and bear arms from all US citizens.

None of those 19 so called “reforms” and unconstitutional efforts being edicted by who some call an emporer do not deal with the following issues briefly outlined below . They won’t because instead of creating a uniformly democratic society where every citizen has an equal voice no matter what their race or ethnicity.

Their policies have grouped races and ethnic groups by gerrymandering congressional districts where much of this criminal activity occurs. GOPES {goverment of the people (republican party) elites} see this issue as a 3rd rail because most of it is black on black or illegal vs illegal (Mexican) activity . GOPES are also afraid to say that policy may have also increased racial tension but again GOPES accept this because of the influence of mainline socialist media which would be accusing them of “racism” if they dare to question it.

The following are links to New York publications the first is the New York Times
January 12, 2013 4:34:43 PM · 49 of 73
mosesdapoet to 2ndDivisionVet
Revolutionary Language by C.M.Blow of the New York Times
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2977484/posts with link to article
As the ghouls swoop in on Blow’s inflamatory rhetoric promoted by The New York Times with directionless rebuttal or meaningless responses laughed at by its staffers. I’m.not even sure if a C.M.Blow is even listed on the NYT staff

I submit the purpose of this NYT article is to keep the right and conservatives focused on what the Demo-Coms describe as issues through their propaganda arm known as the MSM (mainline socialist media) not on the problems created by the “Libs” on their road of good intentions or the socialist/fascists/communists successors to comtrol over todays Democrat party :

Not one word in Blow’s NYT inflamatory contribution will address or offer a solution about the hundreds of gangland murders and shootings using illegaly obtained mostly handguns and revolvers .Not “assault weapons” which are really single shot per trigger pull rifles, used for small game hunting or target practice. That are made to look like their military counterpart. which by the way are small caliber and designed to wound not necessarilly kill which is why they are automatic and fire many rounds while the trigger is in the pulled position. .

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2977901/posts NY Post pix of shooter using handgun
Blow certainly can’t critique a system created by his ilk .Ignored by his publication is that when once caught, perps get set free with lenient sentencing from “liberal” judges or sob sister plea bargain prosecution promoted by The New York Times. There’s certainly no criticism of “no snitch” mentality partcularly in areas where these shootings are rampant.

What do you expect an honest look at the problem from The New York Times ? They’re incapable that’s why they’re going broke...Printing tripe from people like C.M.Blow

While attempting to deal with the latest diversion by the Demo-Coms who would if they had their druthers eliminate the constitution period not just the 2nd ammendment. Conservatives and defenders of the 2nd amendment should cite these issues mentioned here. Holding their fire and aim this when they see the whites of their eyes.


8 posted on 01/15/2013 8:01:44 PM PST by mosesdapoet ("To punish a province let a professor rule it." Frederick The Great paraphrased)
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To: doug from upland

http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-political-commentary/2013/01/no-gun-debate-until-gang-bangers-eliminated/

No Serious Gun Debate Until Gang-bangers And Political Corruption Eliminated
26 comments
By Michael Ciric, January 10, 2013 at 9:36 am
No Serious Gun Debate Until Gang-bangers And Political Corruption Eliminated

Anti-Gun liberals like Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel want to take away guns from law-abiding citizens yet offer no hope in furthering the gun debate because of his administration’s inability to control gang bangers and their illegal access to them.

It makes no sense to strip citizens of their right to protect themselves until you can level the playing field.

Don’t get me wrong either because I believe that having sensible gun laws isn’t a bad thing. But aren’t there already plenty on the books? How about looking at properly enforcing those laws and mandates?

But that is not what anti-gun liberals want. Their motives are far more sinister and nefarious than that. They would have you believe that gang-bangers are somehow cut from the same cloth of sensibility as law-abiding citizens are. However, we already know that that is the furthest from the truth.

Reality tells us that gang-bangers don’t give a damn about society’s laws and as such will always have access to firearms.

Rahm Emanuel, meanwhile, refuses to properly staff the Chicago Police Department so that they can meet their stated mission of “To Serve and Protect.” How many nightmare stories have we heard about the lack of a police presence in those neighborhoods most affected by gang violence? Compounding the problem is the code of silence among residents who fear that the only result cooperation brings is a “snitch winding up in a ditch.” Besides, residents have little faith in the police department because many feel they are as bad as the gang-bangers themselves.

It’s a vicious circle.

That, in and of itself, is a deterrent to the gun control debate here. No sane person would give up one iota of their constitutional right to bear arms until society has a level playing field against those that have z-e-r-o regard for the rule of law. As such, big city mayors, like Rahm Emanuel, need to get off their collective asses and eradicate its streets of the war zones in their own backyards before demanding citizens give up their last hope of protecting themselves.

Of course that would also require brain dead governors to properly fund empty prisons and forgo those asinine early release programs for all those non-rehabilitated criminals rather than opening up the floodgates of hell unto society. And while we are on the discussion of funding, how about the state properly funding the many mental health facilities that have fallen victim to budget cuts?

You know, those of us living in the State of Illinois should be more than aware of these deficiencies. Yet the people don’t seem to care as its elected officials have used taxpayer monies for anything but what their clear intent was. Instead they have allowed one politician after another to fill their (or their cronies) pockets with unethical sweet insider deals. If as that weren’t bad enough, the people have also stood largely silent as politicians have been allowed to underfund a swollen pension fund system built upon decades and decades of overt patronage and the gaming of it by interlopers aided by windows of opportunity opened by a willing Illinois Legislature.

So excuse me if I am a little more than skeptical of the intentions of our “well-meaning Illinois Democrats.” Their agendas rarely have the peoples best interests at heart and anyone saying that isn’t so is clearly a beneficiary of that system. Yet these are the same people who see nothing wrong with forcing the state to take indecent liberties when it comes slashing funding required to protect its people and keep dangerous or mentally ill people off the streets.

I don’t know about you but before I would let people like these dictate the debate on guns I would demand that they deal with the estimated 68,000 gang-bangers wreaking havoc on the good people of Chicago.

And let’s be very clear here Mister Emanuel - there is a direct correlation to the number of gang-bangers and the ineptitude of city and state politicians keeping people in perpetual poverty. So really - is it any wonder then that there are so many gangs and gang members running amok in your city? Hardly! Again, if you want a serious debate or impose stricter regulations on gun ownership then it has to begin with the eradication of the gang-bangers.

Better yet, let’s eradicate the corrupt politicians too!


9 posted on 01/15/2013 8:07:26 PM PST by doug from upland (Obama and the leftists - destroying our country one day at a time)
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks doug from upland.


10 posted on 01/15/2013 8:21:53 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: doug from upland
How does law enforcement solve the problem without infringing on 2nd Amendment rights? <<<

same way we always have...*G*..You got a problem with that??

11 posted on 01/15/2013 8:31:38 PM PST by M-cubed
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To: RobbyS
Gangbangers are indeed unsocialized savages who terrorize neighborhoods. But for decades the neighborhoods were quiet. You always have had these punks, everywhere, with their crime and their drugs, but you never heard of this mayhem and carnage over many years. Somehow they were subdued and controlled. Especially in cities like Chicago. I wonder if anyone recalls how a city like Chicago used to do the job that police can't do...
12 posted on 01/15/2013 8:38:01 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: drbuzzard; doug from upland
The gun had a serial number on it, so Chris scraped it off with a screwdriver.

This statement makes me doubt the whole article. The serial number is generally stamped in a part of the gun that is steel. Even if you file it off, they can use acid to raise the S/N again. There is a way to permanently destroy the S/N, but I'm not going to post it here. It definitely isn't with a screwdriver. You might be able to scratch over it, but it would take HOURS to remove it, and even then it's not going to be completely gone.

13 posted on 01/15/2013 8:40:11 PM PST by Hardastarboard (The Liberal ruling class hates me. The feeling is mutual.)
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To: doug from upland
...let’s be very clear here Mister Emanuel - there is a direct correlation to the number of gang-bangers and the ineptitude of city and state politicians keeping people in perpetual poverty.

It's actually simpler than that: there are two Chicagos. Official Chicago consists of the "safe" parts of the city, which are much like the "safe" parts of any other large city; unofficial Chicago continues to provide utilities such as water and electricity and sewage to the "unsafe" parts of the city, but there's no law there, nor law enforcement. The "unsafe" parts of the city are made up of gang enclaves that are by default ruled by gangs whose primary enterprises are:

1.) Pursuing profits from narcotics and other criminal activites

2.) Allying and warring with competing gangs

3.) Ruling their enclaves

Each gang is a mini-kingdom with its own dictator or oligarchy, its own rules, its own economy, its own culture, et cetera. The whole situation looks anarchic; in reality, each gang has reinvented government—always predatory and usually brutal—in the absence of legitimate city government.

The official city government has abdicated in large areas of the city. It goes through the motions of governance, and even sends in law enforcement officers to investigate crimes and write reports and make arrests when it's easy, but the only actual law is whatever the gangs make up and enforce. Everybody pretends otherwise, but that's the way it actually is.

The question isn't "What's going on?" but "Why do the non-criminals in the "unsafe" areas prefer rule by predatory gangs to official city, state, and national law?"

If I knew the answer, friends, I'd tell you. Feudalism is alive and well in many of our nation's largest cities. Here's what's even stranger: the Chicago way is well on its way toward becoming the new American way.

14 posted on 01/15/2013 8:42:00 PM PST by Standing Wolf
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To: doug from upland

this is 2013....why can’t a chip be installed in every gun manufactured so they’d know exactly where it was.


15 posted on 01/15/2013 8:51:49 PM PST by terycarl
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To: RobbyS
I don't even think Biden proposed those.

Good for you!

16 posted on 01/15/2013 8:53:57 PM PST by Trailerpark Badass (So?)
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To: hinckley buzzard

Detroit had a program called STRESS-Stop The Robbers Enjoy Safe Streets. Coleman Young ran on eliminating this program and got elected with the majority black vote. Even though their community was most affected by violent crime (to say nothing of them being the primary perpetrators). Now we have “no snitchin”. The cops are supposed to solve black crime at the same rate as white crime, despite the fact that the black rates are much higher, AND despite the fact that its a “sin” in black culture to “snitch” in lrder to keep their own children from being killed.


17 posted on 01/15/2013 9:04:30 PM PST by mrsmel (One Who Can See)
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To: terycarl

I suspect that many would think that such is a 2nd Amendment infringement.


18 posted on 01/15/2013 9:05:54 PM PST by doug from upland (Obama and the leftists - destroying our country one day at a time)
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To: Standing Wolf

Because the “non-criminals” still benefit from the crime of the criminals. They live on welfare. The criminal babydaddies supply the luxuries, if not the neccessities. So the criminal element has support from the “community”, through intimidation, through the “no snitchin” (don’t help the “man”), and though personal gain. No character or positive values trump “what’s in it for me”.


19 posted on 01/15/2013 9:08:10 PM PST by mrsmel (One Who Can See)
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To: terycarl

They don’t need to know exactly where every gun is. That’s as bad as the national database proposal, just another way to round up all the guns, even from the law-abiding, when they want to.


20 posted on 01/15/2013 9:09:45 PM PST by mrsmel (One Who Can See)
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To: Hardastarboard

Can you get me one of those screwdrivers? The shootings follow the Section eight housing locations.


21 posted on 01/15/2013 9:10:08 PM PST by Domangart
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To: doug from upland

We have gangs to ensure the trafficking of illegal drugs. The illegal drug industry provides high paying incomes to youths who would be unable to find employment paying anything near what they are making. Politicians like this system because it takes the pressure off them to encourage policy that stimulates the legitimate economy.

What about the guns? Guns are the tools of the trade like a carpenter has his hammer and saw. The trafficker can have the best tools of the trade. Because of the money they bring in from drug sales, the high dollar cost to purchase an illegal, top technology gun is chump change to them. Guns insure they have the best stake on buyers, much like a gold prospector lays claim to a fruitful deposit of gold.

The illegal drug industry is a cancer on the social culture that contains it. The political organization become corrupt, and promote policy that ensures that drug trafficking prospers. This is what I see as the primary reason that guns are being taken away from law abiding citizens while the drug gangs are being ignored. They want to promote the drug gangs. It is easy to take guns away from the law abiding because the honest citizen wants to follow the law. The politician is perceived as doing something good to solve a problem while the real problem is hidden and protected. The truth of the matter is the politicians like these drugs too and they will make sure the illegal drug industry delivers the product to them and their friends. Politicians also like the illegal drug industry because they receive kick backs from it. When they stigmatize the gun of the law abiding citizen, that takes the focus off the real culprit. Gang bangers (an appropriate name, by the way) are the real culprit. They will terrorize the society around them with crime which keeps the police busy and employed. The police unions love lots of police employed.

The drug customers are no law abiding citizen either. The need to finance their habits causes thefts and assaults and the need for citizens to have the protection of guns. When citizens cannot get that Second Amendment protection because of oppressive gun regulations, there is no fear from the lawless to attack them. The lawless will not take the risk if there is the chance of being shot by a well armed citizen. So, the politician, wishing to protect their drug friends, takes the law abiding citizen out of the equation. The politician grabs Joe Citizen’s guns and violates his Second Amendment rights. The politician does this because what is the Second Amendment when you already break the law as an abettor to the drug industry?

When politicians take away guns from law abiding citizens wishing to protect themselves from violent drug motivated lawlessness, it is because the politicians want to insure the success of the lawless drug activity. They want the citizen to be robbed so that drug users have access to the necessary money to support their habit. The beast of the illegal drug industry needs its monetary sustenance. And the politician needs his under-the-table money.


22 posted on 01/15/2013 9:26:19 PM PST by jonrick46 (The opium of Communists: other people's money.)
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To: doug from upland
Bullshit. Straw buyers aren’t the problem. Thugs being raised in a liberal hell-hole where the law-abiding people are unarmed...that’s the problem.

If the availability of guns was the problem...straw buyer or not...then gun violence would be worse in the states where guns are more available. Milwaukee and Indianapolis are very close to Chicago, but their law abiding citizens aren’t unaremed. And even though its even EASIER to find a gun in Milwaukee and Indy, their per capita rate of violent crime is far lower.

23 posted on 01/15/2013 9:28:19 PM PST by RavenATB
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To: doug from upland
Bullshit. Straw buyers aren’t the problem. Thugs being raised in a liberal hell-hole where the law-abiding people are unarmed...that’s the problem.

If the availability of guns was the problem...straw buyer or not...then gun violence would be worse in the states where guns are more available. Milwaukee and Indianapolis are very close to Chicago, but their law abiding citizens aren’t unaremed. And even though its even EASIER to find a gun in Milwaukee and Indy, their per capita rate of violent crime is far lower.

24 posted on 01/15/2013 9:28:32 PM PST by RavenATB
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To: doug from upland
>"How does law enforcement solve the problem without infringing on 2nd Amendment rights? "

Free drugs and guns day!

Pile em as high as an elephants eye, and let em have at it!

Like mice to a trap. ps bring plenty of body bags.

25 posted on 01/15/2013 9:42:14 PM PST by rawcatslyentist ("Behold, I am against you, O arrogant one," Jeremiah 50:31)
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To: terycarl

Great, forget registration, all they would need to do is subpoena the manufacturer’s database and they know where to collect the guns.


26 posted on 01/15/2013 10:29:48 PM PST by Boogieman
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To: doug from upland

straw buyers are criminals, plain and simple, they aren’t your law abiding gun owner.


27 posted on 01/15/2013 10:30:43 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

I agree. How do we stop them? Limit the number someone can buy in a month?


28 posted on 01/15/2013 11:53:44 PM PST by doug from upland (Obama and the leftists - destroying our country one day at a time)
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To: Standing Wolf

If I knew the answer, friends, I’d tell you. Feudalism is alive and well in many of our nation’s largest cities. Here’s what’s even stranger: the Chicago way is well on its way toward becoming the new American way.


I’m sure someone will come along and tell me I’m full of Sh*t. But with that said, I think that the reason Feudalism does work in these instances is because feudalism is based on two parts, first is that there is the local Strong-man who enforces the “rules” in his “turf” and second that “strong-man” is usually accessible to all residents. Mind you it’s not a good thing to go bother him about piss-ant stuff but if there is a “real” problem he can do something about it.

And that comes down to real crux of the matter, he/she is accessible and our current politicians are much like the professorial class. They live in “ivory towers” and are not only not-accessible but have real disdain for everyone else who is not part of their “class”. And the people want the ability to have real access to their leaders and feudalism does provide for that.


29 posted on 01/16/2013 3:47:24 AM PST by The Working Man
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To: Hardastarboard

I can’t imagine the Chicago press would falsify information or believe utter nonsense from a source on a subject with which they are unfamiliar </sarc>.


30 posted on 01/16/2013 4:21:48 AM PST by drbuzzard (All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others.)
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To: doug from upland

well where i am, gun store owners often know or suspect some straw purchasers and they do call the police. in the past the police did surveil the people to see if they could see them exchanging the guns to others. they got too many calls and told the gun stores not to call them anymore, they didn’t have the manpower to check up on them.

i’d have the police once again get involved if a gun store owner suspected a straw purchase, and prosecute these cases and not plea bargain them down from a felony. if they straw purchase and are caught, they can’t pass a background check and their career is over arming street thugs or other felons.


31 posted on 01/16/2013 6:32:07 AM PST by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: jonrick46
Because of the money they bring in from drug sales, the high dollar cost to purchase an illegal, top technology gun is chump change to them. [...] Politicians also like the illegal drug industry because they receive kick backs from it. [...] The drug customers are no law abiding citizen either. The need to finance their habits causes thefts and assaults

And all these problems can be decimated if not eliminated by drug legalization.

32 posted on 01/16/2013 8:50:00 AM PST by JustSayNoToNannies ("The Lord has removed His judgments against you" - Zep. 3:15)
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To: JustSayNoToNannies
"And all these problems can be decimated if not eliminated by drug legalization."

I am beginning to think you are correct.

33 posted on 01/16/2013 9:47:20 AM PST by jonrick46 (The opium of Communists: other people's money.)
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