Skip to comments.Local minutemen, sheriffs discuss gun control [Raleigh, NC Area]
Posted on 01/17/2013 6:13:44 AM PST by backwoods-engineer
ZEBULON, N.C. (WTVD) -- Hundreds of people met Wednesday evening to talk passionately about the Second Amendment and their rights to bear arms.
Three local sheriffs, including Wake County's Donnie Harrison, took part in the minutemen's discussions in Zebulon. The meeting came just hours after President Obama unveiled his gun control plans.
A boiling point in the meeting came about midway through. When dozens inside and dozens more outside of the Fargo Cattle Company Steakhouse bristled about a possibility that the federal government could violate their Second Amendment rights.
(Excerpt) Read more at abclocal.go.com ...
I came to the meeting expecting the sheriffs to say, "We wont follow unconstitutional laws." I was disappointed. I think Sheriff Jones (Franklin) came closest to saying that. It sounded to me like Sheriff Harrison (who I think is a good man and a good sheriff) was saying, If they pass a law in Congress requiring me to confiscate guns, that is what I will do, but dont worry, theyll never pass a law like that. Not exactly re-assuring.
I couldn't hear the questions well, being out on the patio (there were over 100 people outside), but it sounded like one guy asked, what if confiscation was approved by the Supreme Court. That was about the time that the Sheriffs lawyer said that SCOTUS was the su-preme ar-biter (actually said it that way) of what is Constitutional, and its been that way since Marbury vs. Madison, you can look it up. Well, Mr. Lawyer, most of the patriots there, Id wager, know that case well, and SCOTUS did NOT make itself the ONLY arbiter of what is Constitutional. The "supreme arbiter" claim is arguable, and thats the way liberals take it, but SCOTUS has no reign over fundamental rights.
I do think the Sheriffs (and other leaders at the meeting) were surprised at the enormous turnout. I think it scared them a little bit. I hope so.
Sheriff Harrison chastised us for not being involved with the state Legislature, which is probably a fair criticism for most people there. The media has gulled many Americans into thinking that the "main event" is the Federal Congress, which isn't how the Founders saw it. North Carolina has many gun laws that are undesirable for patriots, and even laws that conflict with Federal laws (e.g., machine guns are banned as weapons of mass destruction, with law enforcement arguing over exceptions because the law is vague and contradictory).
I went away feeling good about the strength of my fellow patriots resolve. That alone might be enough to sway the Sheriffs when the time of testing comes. But I did not come away with much, if any, confidence in the Sheriffs desire to disobey Federal laws to confiscate firearms.
Great on-the-ground report, BTW.
Where did you see this meeting advertised? Wish I had seen it before it took place.
“I went away feeling good about the strength of my fellow patriots resolve. That alone might be enough to sway the Sheriffs when the time of testing comes. But I did not come away with much, if any, confidence in the Sheriffs desire to disobey Federal laws to confiscate firearms.”
How unfortunate...For them...
The sheriff in our county, where we “vacation”...Will not be a problem, more important a rallying point and information source for those of us who will do what is necessary...He will not lead, but will follow all the same when and if the time comes...A good man...And his deputies are rock solid as well...
Until then, he’ll still bust our humps if we screw up in his county...hehehe
I know that Bubba and NCRenegade were there last night, although I did not get a chance to talk to them. I don't know Randy Dye personally, but I suspect he was there, too.
Thanks. That is high praise indeed, coming from one of my favorite authors and a patriot I respect.
“It sounded to me like Sheriff Harrison (who I think is a good man and a good sheriff) was saying, If they pass a law in Congress requiring me to confiscate guns, that is what I will do, but dont worry, theyll never pass a law like that. Not exactly re-assuring. “
I suspect that is exactly what many Sheriffs will do.
Indeed. I am a member of OathKeepers, and respect Mr. Rhodes’ work. There were a lot of veterans there last night (a Korean vet led the opening prayer—take that, ACLU!) and they were NOT happy.
The only way around the Second Amendment is to repeal it. Any legislation LESS than a ratified Amendment cannot over-rule it.
Not Federal, not State, not County, or local ordnance.
If you commit some other crime, and as punishment from a trial... You can have your Rights restricted. That is the limit there.
Ex post facto and a priori restraint laws like these are anathema to a Free People and our Republic. They directly violate both the letter and the intent of the Founders and the logic they used to draw up our system of governance.
If Congress passes a ban/confiscation, it is up to your Sheriff to stand up and say "NO". After all, it'll be his neck on the line when him and his troops come 'round to try and carry out their illegal orders.
That's a scary take-away, right there... parentheticals or not.
Right! And the German Jews thought Hitler would never put them in death camps, also. "He would never do something like that, Germany is a civilized Nation" . This is just political thought, it will soon blow over, appeared to be the prevailing thought among the Jews at that time. Well, history shows us that they were wrong . He could. He would. He did. And another thing history affirms is that "political talk" at some point in time turns to action. As human nature goes, we are no different from any other Nation ,or people. the Good Lord gave us the ablility to defend our way of life via the Second Amendment of the Constitution. If we throw that away and trust to the belovence of the power hungry politicians for our lives, them we deserve what they do to us. I can't answer for no one but me, but my last seconds of life will be as a free man.
Don't get me wrong, I think our Sheriffs are good men who will do what is necessary when the time comes. I was just hoping they would come out with a stronger statement. I think because the media were there, the Sheriffs were afraid that the media would savage them.
Also, I neglected to mention that a Wake County deputy spoke, and he really made a stronger case than any of the Sheriffs did for the 2nd. He was the only one who said the 2nd isn't about hunting, while the Sheriffs gave their standard "my grand-daddy's squirrel-huntin' rifle" stump speeches.
Dictators often underestimate how much the people are willing to put up with.
before anyone flames me, I believe the second to be a fundamental, natural right, requiring strict scrutiny
that's why Heller was so important and some of arguments/dicta were so important
if found by SCOTUS to be a fundamental right then strict scrutiny applies...and the standard is a little different that what that attorney stated:
"narrowly tailored to achieve a compelling state interest" (strict scrutiny)
I don't believe registration of firearms or an assault weapons ban can pass that standard if SCOTUS is intellectually honest
and there's the rub...
Well, we will have civil war, then. You should have heard that place when the lawyer said that the 2nd can be infringed for a "compelling governmental purpose." The crowd sounded like an angry hornet's nest, and I think, would be a good deal more dangerous to tyrants.
“That was about the time that the Sheriffs lawyer said that SCOTUS was the su-preme ar-biter (actually said it that way) of what is Constitutional, and its been that way since Marbury vs. Madison, you can look it up.”
Well Mr Lawyer lied. The USSC has claimed many repugnant to liberty laws were constitutional: Dread Scott, Fugitive Slave Act, etc. But, the 6th amendment ensures the People are the final Arbitrators of whats constitutional as seen by the inability of the government and sheriffs like this Stalinist wannabe to enforce the laws the People do not find Constitutional.
These lawyers are trained to believe that government comes first and before the people. To get direct to the final point, lawyers and liberals believe if all the people must die to keep that one last person alive in government we must do so.
I agree. That's why I think NC (and other states) should add an amendment like LA did, enforcing strict scrutiny on the right to keep and bear arms.
I sounded to me like that attorney was turning strict scrutiny on its head; instead of a "compelling state interest" being required to justify the smallest infringement, I think he was saying, we can do whatever we want, and make up some crap to justify a compelling state interest. That junk don't fly with me, and did NOT fly with the North Carolina patriots at that meeting.
I suspect, that if they do, they will find out how outnumbered they are and either give it up or go off the deep end...
This from the Washoe County NV sheriff comments to the Reno Gazette Journal (a gannett piece of trash used by the radical left wing extremists):
Washoe County Sheriff Mike Haley agreed that we should close the loophole on private party purchases of weapons. But he liked Obamas proposal to take the gun-control legislation one step further.
I do believe we should control access to assault weapons and limit access to high-capacity magazines, Haley said. In all cases, those who are permitted access to such weapons should be required to keep them in a safe or other locked container.”(was he imported from kalifornia?)
Since we have only been in the area less than 2 years we didn’t know much about the sheriff but this tells me a whole lot. NOT what I wanted to see/hear. Sounds like a PC clown to me seeking to appease the radical left wing extremists in DC. When you have the county’s chief law enforcement officer buying in to the “assault weapon” garbage and “high-cap magazines” (at least he didn’t say “clips”), it’s time for them to go. More looking in to this will be required by me to see what I can do to change that thought process. Private sales? They are private sales! Not a “loophole”. I can see lots of barter activities going on since most people don’t want anymore govt intrusion in to their lives. (Hmm? Is that a drone I hear overhead?)
Carson City. Noon. Saturday 1/19.
Proud to be among those patriots that were there. We were discussing the Anti-Federalist Papers during some of the waiting times! That tells you our people are informed.
I tried to get some 2nd Amendment types that I work with to go to the meeting. No, they were too busy with their lives. Sorry, but when will we get involved, if not now?
> The only way around the Second Amendment is to repeal it.
I submit that the first 10 amendments cannot be repealed by the simple amendment process. They were passed as the result of the first Continental Congress, and were a condition for most of the colonies to enter the new Union as States.
A new Continental Congress would effectively dissolve the United States, and there are more than a few states that would not re-enter the new Union without the first ten amendments completely intact.
The media talking head in the WTVD video that covered the meeting tried to make it sound like we weren't listening, that the sheriffs really said they wouldn't confiscate guns no matter what, etc. I was there, and that guy is WRONG. Those sheriffs were doing some back-pedaling, big-time.
Now, I guarantee there is some SERIOUS discussion going on at the NC Sheriff's Association meeting this morning, believe you me!
It sounds like the Wake County deputy should be a candidate for sheriff in the next election.
The people I know and have talked to in county law enforcement will not collect weapons, because they will never be ordered to. The method will be voluntary delivery of said weapons to designated collection points under penalty of fine. The feds and the IRS have the ability to simply drain your assets electronically. Get your money out in cash to survive this sneaking trick, because, make no mistake, the Kenyan vulture will use it and his welfare snitches and the media will help him.
"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom of Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretence, raised in the United States." --Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, 1787
I received notification of this meeting at work at 5:30 yesterday afternoon. I live in Rocky Mount and work in Wilson, and we didn’t have child care set up, or I would have been there (even though I don’t live in any of the counties represented there). Now I’m sorry I didn’t figure out some way to get there.
When she was 13, my sainted 85 year old mother arrived at school one day in her small Danish town to find German tanks parked there. Her English teacher raised the windows in her classroom so that the occupying troops would be sure to hear the English songs, including God Save the Queen, which she and her students sang that day. While the Germans probably did not appreciate that small display of contempt from the Danes, they understood what the real tools of resistance might be. One of the first things they did in Denmark was to disarm the police and the civilian populace.
I suspect that many sheriffs who will not go against the 2Nd Amendment when put to the test, are laying low until that day because they would like to continue getting government grants for as long as possible.
The power of government grants is significant and they should be abolished for all but pure research in fields that have an objective result so they can be cut off if results are not obtained.
This is what concerns me. I know of no instance where any law enforcement has ever refused an order to enforce a gun law. Quite to the contrary you frequently read of "arsenals" seized by ATF, sheriff's deputies, etc.
In a particularly shameful time in the hsitory of NYC (Shameful from the viewpoint of patriots, not police) The NYC police confiscated a number of previously registered semiautomatics at the behest of David Dinkins - a sort of 0bama in minature. I remember reading at the time that about a dozen arrests were made of people who failed to either turn their firearms over to the police or render them inoperable. Now some of you might say only a dozen - so what? Even one is a clear violation of the constitution and the oath of office that presumably the NYC police take. (Like the constitution means anything to any government bureaucrat)
It sounded to me like Sheriff Harrison (who I think is a good man and a good sheriff) was saying, If they pass a law in Congress requiring me to confiscate guns, that is what I will do..”
The next question should have been and needs to be next time this statement is made is, “How many of us are you willing to kill to make that happen?”
Cops will do what tbey must to ensure their paycheck continues to be paid and assure their children will have a roof over their head, good shoes and hot meals.
Would a purposed repeal Amendment make it through the official process?
I'd like to think it wouldn't. Not without gun banning jack-asses bleeding for it at least. :-)
As for a new ConCon... In today's political climate that would be insanity.
NC used to or still does have law in which the sheriff/local LE can halt sales of firearms and liquor. Its was used fairly recently in King. I think the circumstances were a prolonged stretch of bad weather or some such. At any rate there is precedence for what the lawyer talked about. When I lived in NC the place struck me as extremely corrupt and gun owners in general seemed the Fudd types mostly. I recall asking about NFA weapons at Perrys (I think it was there) and got the wide eyed ‘we dont do that kind of stuff here (in NC)’ sort of response. LOL, I think they thought I was a fed. Being from a free state previously all the NFA stuff was old hat, something I was completely comfortable with. In short NC gun owners seemed to be their own worst enemies. For some considerable time they voted dem never thinking they would be enslaved. Now, finally, some (a very few I think) are waking up. Your poverty is considerable and embarrassing. Just my observations...
That law was overturned by Federal Circuit Court, and was replaced by the NC legislature, and the law went into effect in Dec of last year.
OK, I thought some action had been taken on it but couldnt recall. So, what replaced it?
I've also been to Perry's. The head guy there is a moron.
That law was overturned by Federal Circuit Court, and was replaced by the NC legislature, and the law went into effect in Dec of last year.
EDIT: that section was removed from the law that was passed.
In practice, yes, but not in the laws themselves. There are a lot of local attorneys that use that "weapons of mass destruction" clause in the law against us. I don't have NFA items myself (would love to), but have a good friend with SBR's and suppressors, so I've heard stories.
I've also been to Perry's. The head guy there is a moron.
Really. I've had good experiences at Perry's guns, and have bought a lot of ammo there. What happened with the head guy?
Without going into detail, the store owner is one of those people who, because he already knows everything, has no reason to listen to you.
My observations are that it wasnt. NC law is written very oddly pertaining to MGs etc. Something along the lines of you could own/use them for experimental purposes. Also I believe the AG had written an opinion about NFA that left you wondering whether they would come during the night and confiscate them. Finally, if you were brave enough to continue only a friendly sheriff would sign off. All in all it was a legal mine field. I think ownership is supposed to be very easy in some counties and impossible in others...a crap shoot. I dont recall all the details but going the way of a trust wasnt possible...sorry just dont recall what the hoops on that were. The state I came from never became involved. If the fed gave you a pass that was all that was necessary.
” I was disappointed. I think Sheriff Jones (Franklin) came closest to saying that. It sounded to me like Sheriff Harrison (who I think is a good man and a good sheriff) was saying, If they pass a law in Congress requiring me to confiscate guns, that is what I will do, but dont worry, theyll never pass a law like that. Not exactly re-assuring.”
Hedgin’ to be sure.
Where’s the Rebel spirit?
Those sheriffs in North Carolina ought to take a cue from their brethern out in Oregon!
I live in Wake county and support the Sheriff's department personally. However as much as I respect the Sheriff Harrison and his deputies, we will be the opposite of shoulder-to-shoulder if they fall in line with the gun-grabbers. While I would have a hard-time believing that the deputies I do know would be a part of such a move, the refrain of the "I was only following orders!" excuse is echoing in the back of my mind.
Research pre-WW2 Germany, and be very, very afraid of the parallels to what is taking place today. I am not going to wait to see the outcome, but work my hardest to influence it now, before it's too late...
Hey, CD, are you aware of anything like this going on in our area?
The one thing I expect to happen is that good deputies, the ones that are with us all the way, will never be asked to arrest or detain patriotic Americans, they will first be told they are criminals or Demoestic Terrorists or had made lethal threats. I don’t want a single one of those guys to get in the line of hostile fire but I suspect they will, at least for the first few times. Then, they will wise up and take off the badge.
Thanks for the great summary, I hope we have one here in Pa.