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US, Others Ground Boeing Dreamliner Indefinitely
CNBC ^ | 1-17-13

Posted on 01/17/2013 6:32:17 AM PST by rawhide

Airlines scrambled on Thursday to rearrange flights as Europe, Japan and India joined the United States in grounding Boeing's 787 Dreamliner passenger jets while battery-related problems are investigated.

The lightweight, mainly carbon-composite plane has been plagued by recent mishaps - including an emergency landing of a Japanese domestic flight on Wednesday after warning lights indicated a battery problem - raising concerns over its use of new technology, such as lithium-ion batteries.

The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) on Wednesday temporarily grounded Boeing's newest commercial airliner, saying carriers would have to demonstrate the batteries were safe before the planes could resume flying. It gave no details on when that might happpen.

Yoshitomo Tamaki, director general at the Japan Transport Safety Board (JTSB), said checks on the ANA flight that made the emergency landing showed a bulge in the metal box that cases the main battery. The electric equipment bay, where the battery is located, had a strong smell of smoke and soot was found on the box and on two exterior valves used to regulate temperature in the plane.

JTSB spokesman Takayuki Someya said the investigation would focus on whether this was battery-related.

The use of new battery technology is among the cost-saving features of the 787, which Boeing says burns 20 percent less fuel than rival jetliners using older technology.

Shares of GS Yuasa, a Japanese firm that makes batteries for the Dreamliner, tumbled as much as 7.5 percent to a 2-month low. The stock has dropped 18 percent since Jan. 7 when one of its batteries caught fire in a parked JAL-operated 787 at Boston Logan International Airport.

(Excerpt) Read more at cnbc.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: dreamliner
Definitely battery related! These batteries are dangerous!
1 posted on 01/17/2013 6:32:20 AM PST by rawhide
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To: rawhide

can they not just switch out the batteries for the old reliable technology that has not been a issue for the past.


2 posted on 01/17/2013 6:40:35 AM PST by cableguymn (The founding fathers would be shooting by now..)
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To: rawhide

where did the rest go?

Has not been an issue for the past 30 years?


3 posted on 01/17/2013 6:43:19 AM PST by cableguymn (The founding fathers would be shooting by now..)
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To: cableguymn

from what I have read various places the old batteries weigh 100 to 200 lbs more than the lithium batteries and that there may not be room for them in the electronic bay which would mean they would have to use cargo space instead which would be a financial loss for airlines.


4 posted on 01/17/2013 6:51:52 AM PST by longfellowsmuse (last of the living nomads)
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To: cableguymn
Were these the planes built in SC after the union/NLRB scrap?
5 posted on 01/17/2013 6:52:22 AM PST by July4 (Remember the price paid for your freedom.)
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To: cableguymn
"...can they not just switch out the batteries..."

Aircraft modifications are VERY expensive and take a LOT of time. Even seemingly simple ones.
And it's not really the batteries that are scary - it's the "fly-by-wire" technology - there is no "physical" linkage in the flight controls - even though Boeing claims they use triple redundancy, I don't like my flight controls to be a wish and a prayer.

6 posted on 01/17/2013 6:59:46 AM PST by Psalm 73 ("Gentlemen, you can't fight in here - this is the War Room".)
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To: rawhide

May be the end of Boeing.


7 posted on 01/17/2013 7:00:19 AM PST by pabianice (washington, dc ..)
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To: cableguymn

I’m guessing that the older (lead-acid) batteries have a lower energy density.

That means that switching would add weight, and they wouldn’t fit the existing battery racks, or, if a lesser capacity battery was used, the airplanes wouldn’t be able to last as long on battery power in case of loss of all generators, and would have to route flights to stay closer to emergency airports.


8 posted on 01/17/2013 7:05:13 AM PST by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: rawhide

You’ll set your house on fire!

(Humor aside, aka ‘shoot your eye out’, google/youtube lithium battery fire and ... yow.)


9 posted on 01/17/2013 7:06:52 AM PST by Kommodor (Terrorist, Journalist or Democrat? I can't tell the difference.)
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To: pabianice

“May be the end of Boeing.”

Sorta like GM? Oh I dunno. With some dynamic union-led credit restructuring providing ‘support’ to the right people it may just turn out to be To Big To Fail and warrant some more credit swapping with the Treasury.

And replacing those batteries isn’t Green!


10 posted on 01/17/2013 7:14:27 AM PST by Justa
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To: pabianice
I can't help thinking that Boeing has incurred the anger of the unions and, thus, all liberals and the Obama’s NLRB.

If Marxists can't persuade you to do what they want, they simply destroy you, by whatever means necessary. There may be a legitimate problem with the electrical system, but I am suspicious that whether or not the problem is real, whether or not it is serious, and whether or not it is repairable, our Marxist government and its media enablers will do everything possible to destroy Boeing.

Boeing is in for one hell of a fight to survive, and America needs Boeing.

11 posted on 01/17/2013 7:19:00 AM PST by July4 (Remember the price paid for your freedom.)
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To: rawhide

More here:

TOKYO (AP) — The main battery beneath the cockpit of the Boeing 787 forced to make an emergency landing in Japan was swollen from overheating, a safety official said Thursday, as aviation regulators worldwide joined the U.S. and Japan in grounding the technologically advanced aircraft because of fire risk.

U.S. officials, and a Boeing engineer, are due in Japan on Friday to assist with Japan’s investigation into the All Nippon Airways 787 that landed in western Japan after a cockpit message showed battery problems and a burning smell was detected in the cockpit and cabin.

The battery in an electrical room beneath the cockpit was swollen and had leaked electrolyte, safety inspector Hideyo Kosugi said on Japanese broadcaster NHK. Investigators found burn marks around the battery, though it was not thought to have caught fire. Kosugi also said the electrolyte liquid leaked through the electrical room floor to the outside of the aircraft, Kyodo news agency reported.


12 posted on 01/17/2013 7:20:47 AM PST by rawhide
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To: rawhide; big'ol_freeper; Lil'freeper; TrueKnightGalahad; blackie
Guess I picked the wrong day... to start selling my Boeing stock!
13 posted on 01/17/2013 7:28:25 AM PST by Bender2 ("I've got a twisted sense of humor, and everything amuses me." RAH Beyond this Horizon)
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To: July4; windcliff; stylecouncilor
Were these the planes built in SC after the union/NLRB scrap?

This is what I'm beginning to wonder. I understand these batteries bench tested at over 1,000,000 hours without a problem. Now, suddenly....

There are always issues with new or evolving technologies. Aviation is no different. Yes, many lives are involved, so there is a need to proceed with caution. But this soetoro administration is so wedded to the lie that it immediately becomes suspect.

What do the Captains of these planes say? Now that would be interesting to know. But the media is either too stupid or too politically compromised to ask and pursue what seem like obvious questions.

14 posted on 01/17/2013 7:33:44 AM PST by onedoug
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To: rawhide

It is curious that these battery problems seem to be common now that the airplane has gone into service, but there were no reports of them during the extended flight-test program.


15 posted on 01/17/2013 7:33:44 AM PST by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: DuncanWaring

They are the same type of batteries that have been scorching Chevy Volts for awhile now.


16 posted on 01/17/2013 7:41:23 AM PST by pfflier
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To: pfflier

Good point, this is not an airplane problem its a battery specific application problem. This type of battery is touchy in its charging, discharging and load requirements. Wasn’t there laptops with the same kind of failure a couple years back.


17 posted on 01/17/2013 7:51:38 AM PST by ully2
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To: rawhide

Batteries????? Why don’t they use jet fuel?

:)


18 posted on 01/17/2013 8:05:15 AM PST by Cowboy Bob (Soon the "invisible hand" will press the economic "reset" button.)
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To: onedoug

I was able to have a good conversation with a Program Manager for Boeing and I was astounded at the amount of testing that occurs. I work for another major manufacturer, but in a different industry and even with similar knowledge, I was amazed at how much testing they do on every new program.

Like you, it is surprising that this issue was not discovered during development!


19 posted on 01/17/2013 8:10:18 AM PST by CSM (Keeper of the Dave Ramsey Ping list. FReepmail me if you want your beeber stuned.)
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To: ully2
Yes several Dells set fire to their work environments due to battery overheating. Lithium ion batteries are high in energy density but nasty when mis-handled.

One of the problems is the lithium cell battery design. Hundreds make up a battery when connected in series-parallel to achieve the desired voltage and amperage requiremenrts of the battery.

If a typical cell is 99.999% reliable and over a thousand are used to make a battery, then statistically at least one cell will fail.

20 posted on 01/17/2013 8:35:29 AM PST by pfflier
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To: rawhide
Picture of the nattery in the aforementioned incident.


21 posted on 01/17/2013 10:53:07 PM PST by rawhide
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To: rawhide

22 posted on 01/17/2013 10:59:16 PM PST by rawhide
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To: All

Picture posted of battery like the one referred to in this thread.


23 posted on 01/17/2013 11:00:15 PM PST by rawhide
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To: pabianice

>”May be the end of Boeing”<

First they move their Headquarters to Chicago and now this.

You might be right.


24 posted on 01/17/2013 11:09:55 PM PST by Kickass Conservative (I only Fear a Government that doesn't Fear me.)
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