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Marco Rubio Outlines Elements of His New Immigration Plan
New York Times ^ | 01/18/2013 | Julia Preston

Posted on 01/18/2013 8:41:59 AM PST by SeekAndFind

Senator Marco Rubio of Florida, a Republican who is on a talking tour to publicize his proposals for an immigration overhaul, said on Thursday that tighter enforcement at the borders and in workplaces would be central to his plan, which would also offer legal status to millions of illegal immigrants.

In a meeting in New York with reporters and editors of The New York Times, Mr. Rubio said that any broad immigration legislation should create a nationwide exit system to check foreigners out of the country, to confirm that they left before their visas expired. He noted that at least 40 percent of an estimated 11 million illegal immigrants in the country came on legal visas but then overstayed.

Mr. Rubio said he would also insist on a nationwide program for employers to verify the legal authorization of new workers, although he did not specify whether he would favor an expansion of an existing federal electronic worker verification program or seek to create a new one.

Mr. Rubio, 41, the conservative son of blue-collar Cuban exiles who won his Senate seat in 2010 with support from the Tea Party, has been shaking up the Republican Party’s immigration politics with his proposals to offer legal status and eventually American citizenship to immigrants here illegally. Since the November elections, many Republican leaders have said the party should find an alternative to the policy of “self-deportation” for illegal immigrants, which turned many Latino voters away from the party’s presidential candidate, Mitt Romney.

On Monday, Mr. Romney’s running mate, Representative Paul D. Ryan of Wisconsin, shifted to Mr. Rubio’s approach, endorsing the senator’s principles and saying the two would work together on immigration legislation. On Wednesday, Bill O’Reilly, the conservative media personality, added his endorsement, telling Mr. Rubio he liked his program.

(Excerpt) Read more at thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aliens; amnesty; immigration; marcorubio; rubio
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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1 posted on 01/18/2013 8:42:06 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind
Mr. Rubio said that any broad immigration legislation should create a nationwide exit system to check foreigners out of the country, to confirm that they left before their visas expired. He noted that at least 40 percent of an estimated 11 million illegal immigrants in the country came on legal visas but then overstayed.

First time I've heard a politician mention this aspect of the problem. This needs to be fixed asap.

2 posted on 01/18/2013 8:44:24 AM PST by al_c (http://www.blowoutcongress.com)
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To: SeekAndFind
Watch an interview with Rubio and his plan is excellent. This is the first comprehensive plan on the table and is the best answer to the problem.

The crazy idea to round all the illegals up and send them back is the most childish immature bunch of silliness I ever heard so spare some of us with this crap.

3 posted on 01/18/2013 8:48:21 AM PST by Logical me
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To: SeekAndFind
...immigration legislation should create a nationwide exit system to check foreigners out of the country...

This should be the 1st step before anything else happens.

4 posted on 01/18/2013 8:49:48 AM PST by VRW Conspirator (Sometimes it takes calamity to lead to serenity - FReeper RacerX1128)
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To: SeekAndFind

Ryan can push this tripe at CPAC. Stick a fork in him, he’s done.


5 posted on 01/18/2013 8:50:09 AM PST by TheLawyerFormerlyKnownAsAl
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To: Logical me
The crazy idea to round all the illegals up and send them back

Would not have to if the governments would stop handing out goodies and perks as well as fine employers who hire them.

6 posted on 01/18/2013 8:54:15 AM PST by VRW Conspirator (Sometimes it takes calamity to lead to serenity - FReeper RacerX1128)
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To: SeekAndFind
"He noted that at least 40 percent of an estimated 11 million illegal immigrants in the country came on legal visas but then overstayed."

Sounds like a good enough reason to seriously curtail legal visas. That program needs to be rolled back to a level that can be adequately administered. But that's not what he's proposing.

"His plan would give a temporary “nonimmigrant visa” to illegal immigrants, which would allow them to remain and work in the United States. They would have to wait a “significant but reasonable” period of time before they could apply to become legal permanent residents, going to the back of the line in the existing system. Once they became residents, they could go on like other legal immigrants to naturalize as citizens."

Can someone please tell me how his plan differs significantly from McCain/Kennedy?
7 posted on 01/18/2013 9:00:36 AM PST by CowboyJay (Lowest Common Denominator 2012 - because liberty and prosperity were overrated)
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To: Logical me
The crazy idea to round all the illegals up and send them back is the most childish immature bunch of silliness I ever heard so spare some of us with this crap.

The proponents of amnesty are wont to create the false choice between a blanket amnesty and mass deportation of 12 to 20 million illegal aliens. In reality, we have other choices and alternatives that don’t reward people who have broken our laws with the right to stay and work here and an eventual path to citizenship. The 12 to 20 million illegal aliens did not enter this country overnight and they will not leave overnight. Attrition through enforcement works. We have empirical data from Georgia, Oklahoma, and Arizona proving that it does.

Any legislation that legalizes the status of those who broke our laws by entering our country illegally and allows them to stay is amnesty. We must not only prevent the Democrats and some moderate Republicans from hijacking the meaning of the word amnesty, but the public must be made aware about the true impact of an amnesty.

The Heritage Foundation concluded that the cost of amnesty alone would be $2.6 trillion for just the entitlement program costs. And the number of additional LEGAL immigrants who would join those who were the recipients of amnesty through chain migration, i.e., family reunification, would approach 70 million over a 20-year period, assuming there are only 12 million illegal aliens. We cannot assimilate such numbers. An amnesty would destroy the United States of America with the stroke of a pen.

When you reward something, you get more of it. We had an amnesty in 1986. The USG estimated that one million would apply, but the true number turned out to be 2.7 milion. It was supposed to be a one-time anmensty never to happen again. 26 years later people like Rubio are calling for another one only this time we have 12 to 20 million illegal aliens. In 1986 once plans were announced to have an amnesty, illegals flooded into the country to take advantage of it. The 1986 Simpson-Mazolli amnesty included the requirement that you had to be here for five years, not committed more than three misdeameanors, pay a fine, learn English, etc. Doing the same thing again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

And we are just creating more Dem voters.

What is the advantage to legalizing illegal aliens to this country and to the Reps?

8 posted on 01/18/2013 9:01:30 AM PST by kabar
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To: CowboyJay
Can someone please tell me how his plan differs significantly from McCain/Kennedy?

It is the same repackaged crap. And it contains much of the same stuff as Hagel-Martinez that passed the Rep-controlled Senate in 2006.

9 posted on 01/18/2013 9:04:12 AM PST by kabar
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To: al_c
First time I've heard a politician mention this aspect of the problem. This needs to be fixed asap.

We have had the US-VISIT program since 1996. It was never fully implemented. Bush 43 was worse on immigration enforcement than Clinton.

10 posted on 01/18/2013 9:06:21 AM PST by kabar
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To: SeekAndFind
As Biden said about gun laws — there are too many to enforce, the same can be said about immigration laws.

Rubio is just updating the same stuff McCain and Co have been spouting for years.

New? Not really.

And as with previous laws, what makes the ‘new’ ones any more enforceable? If the previous laws WERE enforced, we wouldn't have the current problem.

11 posted on 01/18/2013 9:09:25 AM PST by TomGuy
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To: VRW Conspirator
Somebody tell me what the hell is the advantage in being a citizen anymore.

Illegals get all of the goodies (except voting, but they do that in large numbers anyway) and none of the responsibilities. No wonder they are such reliably Democrat voters.

My son-in-law, meanwhile, is still a Japanese national who married my daughter in 2007 and applied for U.S. Citizenship. After considerable application process and expense, they finally granted him a residency green card in 2010 but no citizenship yet. Could it be because he fits the profile of a reliable GOP voter?

12 posted on 01/18/2013 9:15:24 AM PST by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: SeekAndFind; Liz; AuntB; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; DoughtyOne; Gilbo_3; Impy; ...
RE :”His plan would give a temporary “nonimmigrant visa” to illegal immigrants, which would allow them to remain and work in the United States. They would have to wait a “significant but reasonable” period of time before they could apply to become legal permanent residents, going to the back of the line in the existing system. Once they became residents, they could go on like other legal immigrants to naturalize as citizens.
“There are millions of people who have applied to enter this country legally,” Mr. Rubio said. “Our message to them cannot be: you should have come illegally because it’s faster and cheaper.”

The citizenship part is a disaster, create more lib/Dem voters?

13 posted on 01/18/2013 9:16:57 AM PST by sickoflibs (Losing to O is NO principle!)
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To: sickoflibs

Rubio added——”illegals came here to get the American Dream-—just as long as they don’t have to pay for it.”


14 posted on 01/18/2013 9:25:42 AM PST by Liz
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To: Liz
RE :”Rubio added——”illegals came here to get the American Dream-—just as long as they don’t have to pay for it.”

Not at that article link.

15 posted on 01/18/2013 9:29:37 AM PST by sickoflibs (Losing to O is NO principle!)
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To: kabar
"And we are just creating more Dem voters."

I don't know how supposedly reasoned people can overlook the inevitable consequence of amnesty for 20 million people who would vote democrat by a 2-to-1 margin. I think some are hoping it would help shore-up SS, but I've read reputable studies that concluded amnesty would be a net drain on SS funding.

I agree with you. Cut off the jobs, food stamps, and welfare checks, and they will leave on their own.
16 posted on 01/18/2013 9:34:14 AM PST by CowboyJay (Lowest Common Denominator 2012 - because liberty and prosperity were overrated)
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To: SeekAndFind

Amnesty will happen. Enforcement and border protection never will all because establishment Dems want new voters and Repubs want cheap labor.

I am in favor of legal immigration and would welcome those who do it properly. I have no patience for law-breakers who make the millions of past immigrants who have done it properly feel stupid for following the rules.

Those in this and previous administrations who don’t enforce existing laws have no right asking for new laws.
Selective enforcement of the law leads to corruption and loss of confidence in all authority and eventually a breakdown of civilization.

These politicians are doing irreparable damage to our republic just to gain some short term advantages.


17 posted on 01/18/2013 9:34:38 AM PST by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters of Freedom, Committee of Correspondence)
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To: SeekAndFind

If we can’t rely on the government to enforce the law now, we can’t rely on them to enforce a new set of more complicated rules later.


18 posted on 01/18/2013 9:36:02 AM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: Logical me
This is the first comprehensive plan on the table and is the best answer to the problem.

The word "comprehensive" is a big red flag. Your use of derogatory language doesn't help your cause either.

19 posted on 01/18/2013 9:38:57 AM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: CowboyJay
I don't know how supposedly reasoned people can overlook the inevitable consequence of amnesty for 20 million people who would vote democrat by a 2-to-1 margin. I think some are hoping it would help shore-up SS, but I've read reputable studies that concluded amnesty would be a net drain on SS funding.

I think the GOP likes to perpetually come in second in a two party race and let the Democrats implement the Big Government they really want.

20 posted on 01/18/2013 9:41:26 AM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: al_c

First and foremost it should be easier for legal visitors to extend their visas. I’ve heard that the bureaucracy for this is nightmarish.


21 posted on 01/18/2013 9:42:07 AM PST by Little Ray (Waiting for the return of the Gods of the Copybook Headings.)
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To: VRW Conspirator

It should be the second step - after fortifying the southern border.


22 posted on 01/18/2013 9:45:03 AM PST by Little Ray (Waiting for the return of the Gods of the Copybook Headings.)
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To: Logical me

“Watch an interview with Rubio and his plan is excellent. This is the first comprehensive plan on the table and is the best answer to the problem.”

I tend to agree, amnesty is coming and his isn’t as bad as some.

“The crazy idea to round all the illegals up and send them back is the most childish immature bunch of silliness I ever heard so spare some of us with this crap. “

THAT is the law...deportation. And yes, it has and can work. Silly?? IGNORING OUR LAWS and making excuses for lawbreaking invaders is SILLY.


23 posted on 01/18/2013 9:57:10 AM PST by AuntB (Illegal immigration is simply more "share the wealth" socialism and a CRIME not a race!)
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To: Moonman62
"I think the GOP likes to perpetually come in second in a two party race and let the Democrats implement the Big Government they really want."

Winner!

Hard to play the patronage game if the pork fountain were ever shut off. Notice how the "other side" can always find at least one "defector" for crucial votes?
24 posted on 01/18/2013 10:01:02 AM PST by CowboyJay (Lowest Common Denominator 2012 - because liberty and prosperity were overrated)
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To: 3Fingas
I am in favor of legal immigration and would welcome those who do it properly

Do you favor 1.2 million LEGAL immigrants a year while 23 million Americans are looking for full time employment? The decade ending in 2010 was the highest in our history in terms of numbers--13.9 million. During that same period, we suffered a net loss of jobs--a minus 400,000.

The U.S. adds one international migrant (net) every 36 seconds. Immigrants account for one in 8 U.S. residents, the highest level in more than 90 years. In 1970 it was one in 21; in 1980 it was one in 16; and in 1990 it was one in 13. In a decade, it will be one in 7, the highest it has been in our history. And by 2050, one in 5 residents of the U.S. will be foreign-born.

Currently, 1.6 million legal and illegal immigrants settle in the country each year; 350,000 immigrants leave each year, resulting in a net immigration of 1.25 million. Since 1970, the U.S. population has increased from 203 million to 315 million, i.e., over 100 million. In the next 40 years, the population will increase by 130 million to 445 million. Three-quarters of the increase in our population since 1970 and the projected increase will be the result of immigration.

25 posted on 01/18/2013 10:09:47 AM PST by kabar
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To: SeekAndFind

Employers are required to screen applicants & NOT hire a person who isn’t allowed to work in the USA.

Starting with the I-9, there are many pieces of ID required. Then an employer can use electronic methods to verify with the Soc Sec Administration.

I will post here the EXACT information I have from the SPRING 2010 copy of a quarterly ‘newsletter’ called The Rposrter, which is put out by the SSA & the IRS. It comes with the quarterly forms used to make payroll reporting, the 941 form.

I Quote:
Title: Social Security Offers Consent-Based Social Security Number Verification Service

Social Security welcomes new customers to enroll in it Consent-Based Social Security Number Verification service (CBSV). CBSV went live in 2008 and more than 100 companies have enrolled to use this service.

CBSV permits private businesses, government agencies or tax preparers to verify whether a name and Social Security number (SSN) combination match the data in its Master File of SSNs. It provides instant, automated SSN verification and it easily handles large volume requests.

Using CBSV, participating companies can verify the SSNs of their customers and clients. Companies using CBSV include firms providing background and pre-employment checks, tax preparation and financial services. Users have a choice of three possible modes of access to CBSV: web service, internet online or batch.

CBSV requires participating companies to pay a fee and obtain the written consent of the SSN holder. This consent authorizes Social Security to disclose the SSN verification to the requesting party. CBSV results may only be used for the reason the number holder specifies on the consent form. An Employer Identification Number (EIN) is required to enroll and become a CBSV user.

How to Enroll:

To use CBSV, a company must sign an agreement with Socisl Security, pay a non-refundable enrollment fee of $5,000 and then pay a transaction fee per SSN verification request. The transaction fee is presently $.56 and must be paid in advance. Periodically, Social Security will recalculate the costs it incurs in providing the CBSV service and, as needed, will adjust the transaction fee it charges. Subscribers will be notified in writing of any change in the transaction fee. Social Security may close enrollment to CBSV at its discretion.

Is is important to note that CBSV is different from Social Security’s other SSN verification service service, Social Security Number Verification Service (SSNVS). SSNVS is solely for employers verifying the information of their employees or former employees before preparing and submitting forms W-2 and it cannot be nsed as part of a pre-hiring process. Since SSNVS supports Social Security’s program administration, there are no fees for using SSNVS and the signed consent of the number holder is not needed.

CBSV, of the other hand, is available to any interested party with an EIN. Is is important to note that CBSV is available to tax preparers and also may be used for pre-employment checks. CBSV will verify a name and SSN combination as matching or not matching SSA records for any party registered to use the service, but fees are charged and the number’s written consent is required.

End

Soooo—A legal employer in the USA must pay a NON-REFUNDABLE FEE of $5000 to get the correct information from the SS admin.

What about E-Verify?

Who acministers that? What is the cost to employers???

No wonder so many illegals are working in the USA.

As a life-long bookkeeper, I would NEVER advise any client of mine to pay a non-refundable Fee of $5000 to the government to comply with their demands.

They can KMA.


26 posted on 01/18/2013 10:15:50 AM PST by ridesthemiles
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To: Little Ray
Why should it be easier to extend one's visa. We have over 50 million visitors a year. There are a number of countries that participate in the visa wavier program that allows citizens of those countries to enter without tourist/business visas. They can stay up to 90 days. Visa Wavier Program

We have over 900,000 foreign students attending US universites.

You do understand that much of our visa program is based on reciprocity. Why should we make it easier for visitors to stay longer when other countries don't extend the same privilege to our citizens visiting their countries?

27 posted on 01/18/2013 10:20:42 AM PST by kabar
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To: ridesthemiles
What about E-Verify? Who acministers that? What is the cost to employers???

E-Verify is administered by USCIS. It is free for employers to use.

28 posted on 01/18/2013 10:25:37 AM PST by kabar
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To: al_c

they come on legal visitor visas and never leave. It has been a problem for many years. This is the first time I have seen a number attached to them.


29 posted on 01/18/2013 10:26:32 AM PST by elpadre (AfganistaMr Obama said the goal was to "disrupt, dismantle and defeat al-hereQaeda" and its allies.)
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To: kabar

By “easier” I meant less of a bureaucratic nightmare. Whether the answer is yes or no, it should be easy and fast to get it. Perhaps I should have said “apply” for an extension.

In any case, I don’t know why we should care what other countries do, unless they find something that works really well and might work here...


30 posted on 01/18/2013 10:30:38 AM PST by Little Ray (Waiting for the return of the Gods of the Copybook Headings.)
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To: SeekAndFind
tighter enforcement at the borders and in workplaces [...]
legal status to millions of illegal immigrants. [...]
a nationwide exit system to check foreigners out of the country, to confirm that they left before their visas expired. [...]
a nationwide program for employers to verify the legal authorization of new workers

I'll take all but the second one.

'[A] poll of Hispanic, Asian-American, and African-American likely voters finds some support for legalization. But overall each of these groups prefers enforcement and for illegal immigrants to return home. Moreover, significant majorities of all three groups think that the current level of immigration is too high.' - more details at http://www.cis.org/Minority-Views-Immigration

31 posted on 01/18/2013 10:44:13 AM PST by JustSayNoToNannies ("The Lord has removed His judgments against you" - Zep. 3:15)
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To: Little Ray
By “easier” I meant less of a bureaucratic nightmare. Whether the answer is yes or no, it should be easy and fast to get it.

As someone who has actually issued visas, I have no idea what you mean by "bureaucratic nightmare." When vistors are issued their visas overseas to enter the US, they understand the length of time the visa is valid for. They must prove that they have a valid reason to extend their stay in the US beyond the authorized period. This country is no different than any other when it comes to the extension of a visa. Can you identify any other country that makes it easier and faster?

In any case, I don’t know why we should care what other countries do, unless they find something that works really well and might work here

Then you don't understand the concept of reciprocity. American citizens deserve equal treatment from other countries, i.e., the same treatment we provide their citizens. To demand less puts our citizens at risk in many ways.

32 posted on 01/18/2013 10:44:20 AM PST by kabar
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To: Little Ray

Extend Your Stay

If you want to extend your stay in the United States, you must file a request with U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) on the Form I-539, Application to Extend/Change Nonimmigrant Status before your authorized stay expires. If you remain in the United States longer than authorized, you may be barred from returning and/or you may be removed (deported) from the United States. Check the date in the lower right-hand corner of your Form I-94, Arrival-Departure Record, to determine the date your authorized stay expires. We recommend that you apply to extend your stay at least 45 days before your authorized stay expires.

You may apply to extend your stay if:

You were lawfully admitted into the United States with a nonimmigrant visa

Your nonimmigrant visa status remains valid

You have not committed any crimes that make you ineligible for a visa

You have not violated the conditions of your admission

Your passport is valid and will remain valid for the duration of your stay

You may not apply to extend your stay if you were admitted to the United States in the following categories:

Visa Waiver Program

Crew member (D nonimmigrant visa)

In transit through the United States (C nonimmigrant visa)

In transit through the United States without a visa (TWOV)

Fiancé of a U.S. citizen or dependent of a fiancé (K nonimmigrant visa)

Informant (and accompanying family) on terrorism or organized crime (S nonimmigrant visa)


33 posted on 01/18/2013 10:49:17 AM PST by kabar
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To: Logical me; kabar

Kabar has already pointed out the falsehood that amnesty opponents are calling for a mass round up of all illegal aliens, and how granting citizenship to illegals is a sure-fire way to create lots of new Democrats.

It’s this last point that really makes the Rubio plan frustrating. If he (and Paul Ryan) have given up and surrendered to the idea that most current illegal aliens must be granted a path to citizenship, then why not at least try to get some conservative reform added to balance that?

Why not try to end chain migration by limiting family sponsorships to spouses, elderly parents, and minor children? Why not cut back on refugee settlements? Why not end the absurd Diversity Lottery Visas (which in turn kick off new channels of future Democrat chain migration)?

Why not do something to end mass immigration and cut off the mass flow of future Democrats? If Republican leadership weren’t dominated by those who are either (a)liberal on immigration like the Bush family, or (b)afraid of being called names, then they could make a case to the public and win most over on this. They could put the Democrats on defense and make them explain why, in an era of high unemployment, they want to continue admitting over a million immigrants each year.

I mean, is there not one bit of conservative reform Rubio supports?


34 posted on 01/18/2013 11:23:59 AM PST by Aetius
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To: Little Ray
:It should be the second step - after fortifying the southern border.

I fear it will have to take a catostrophic terrorist event to force the politicians to lock up the border, like terrorists flying planes into buildings or something.

35 posted on 01/18/2013 11:41:04 AM PST by VRW Conspirator (Sometimes it takes calamity to lead to serenity - FReeper RacerX1128)
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To: Aetius

Right on, brother. Immigration reform could be a winner for Republicans if they use it the right way. Instead, they are being stampeded by the amnesty crowd that will make the Dems the permanent majority party and destroy this nation.


36 posted on 01/18/2013 12:01:36 PM PST by kabar
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To: kabar

Doesn’t seem to work that way, or, judging from way Mexico treats gringo lawbreakers, a lot of illegal aliens pray for deportation if we “reciprocated”...

In general, I’d expect the US to behave better than the “lesser breeds without the law.”


37 posted on 01/18/2013 12:33:40 PM PST by Little Ray (Waiting for the return of the Gods of the Copybook Headings.)
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To: Aetius

No “elderly parents.” Why should we have to start paying them Social Security and Medicare right off the boat?


38 posted on 01/18/2013 12:40:18 PM PST by Little Ray (Waiting for the return of the Gods of the Copybook Headings.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Exit stage left, Rubio.


39 posted on 01/18/2013 12:41:28 PM PST by OldNewYork (Biden '13. Impeach now.)
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To: Little Ray

It does work that way. For example, we don’t need visas to go to the 37 countries that are part of the visa wavier program.


40 posted on 01/18/2013 1:09:17 PM PST by kabar
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To: SeekAndFind
He noted that at least 40 percent of an estimated 11 million illegal immigrants in the country came on legal visas but then overstayed.

I've known a large number of people who worked illegally in the US but still followed the schedule terms of their tourist/laser visas and went home to visit every 6 months or what ever the term was.

They didn't 'overstay' but were either working illegally with no tax reporting or they used fake identities.

I hope they aren't getting amnesty either.
41 posted on 01/18/2013 2:06:34 PM PST by posterchild
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To: Little Ray

I was thinking really only in terms of ending chain migration, and how if it’s limited to spouses, minor children, and elderly parents, then those elderly parents would not (in most cases) be able to sponsor anyone else.

But yes, you’re right about the SS and Medicare. I agree.


42 posted on 01/18/2013 2:49:59 PM PST by Aetius
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To: Aetius

You are right. Ending chain migration is an absolute necessity.


43 posted on 01/18/2013 4:13:51 PM PST by Little Ray (Waiting for the return of the Gods of the Copybook Headings.)
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To: sickoflibs

Fred Barnes and Hugh Hewitt are carrying water for the Treason Lobby tonight. You’ll never hear the word ‘Deportation’ from this crowd, because their one goal is to get amnesty through by calling it something else.

Basically it’s going to be a replay of the battle we had with Bush, but this time it will be Rubio, Ryan and Obama representing the interests of foreign nationals against Americans who want them shipped back to their own countries. Man, do I ever despise rinos.


44 posted on 01/21/2013 6:12:24 PM PST by Pelham (Treason, it's not just for Democrats anymore.)
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To: Pelham; Liz; AuntB; BufordP; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; Gilbo_3; NFHale; Impy; BillyBoy; ...
RE :”Basically it’s going to be a replay of the battle we had with Bush, but this time it will be Rubio, Ryan and Obama representing the interests of foreign nationals against Americans who want them shipped back to their own countries. Man, do I ever despise rinos.”

As far back as the Ryan medicare plan Spring 2011 I been pointing out how skeptical I am of him. I was a lone voice until recently.

If I had Ryan trapped on camera where I could put him on the spot and ask him what his proof is that ANY legalized illegals would support his (Ryans) proposals from 2011, cuts in medicare and privatization of it for those under 55 paired with tax cuts for billionaires (errr job creators). Tell me why I should believe his new citizens will support this package and not just vote Dem instead for free $$$.

Likewise ask any R in congress why you should believe that illegals would support all the similar policies they claim they are for, upper end tax cuts, cuts in poverty programs, and cuts in entitlements for those outside the GOP base age ~ 55.(Note that the business roundtable supports both amnesty and Ryan's 2011 ideas that are toxic to Dems)

Colin Powell was on the Morning Joe Monday supporting him on Rs going with O on immigration and guns.

If Rs insist on amnesty to get Hispanic votes then they must now argue that the party must more like Dems officially, as Morning Joe and Powell are doing. So they should admit that is what they are up to.

BTW : Romney was toxic to Hispanics, RINO or not. And you know he would have went for amnesty.

45 posted on 01/21/2013 10:16:04 PM PST by sickoflibs (Losing to O is NO principle!)
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To: kabar
"The proponents of amnesty are wont to create the false choice between a blanket amnesty and mass deportation of 12 to 20 million illegal aliens."

No. That is NOT TRUE! If you really believe this (that this is what the "proponents of amnesty are wont to create"), then you have fallen into the 'bait' of why there is NO resolution to this issue. That is what 'they' want you to believe.

Here is the problem.

While you say that ..."we have other choices and alternatives that don’t reward people who have broken our laws with the right to stay and work here and an eventual path to citizenship."..and that. "Attrition through enforcement works"

The reality of the situation is that EACH DAY nothing gets done or enforced, more and more illegals are coming in (staying in), and having more babies, and worsening the situation.

One side is adamant TO NOT allow ANY "amnesty", while the daily illegal streaming continues unabated.

The other side is CONTENT to not GET ANYTHING DONE and letting the daily illegal streaming continue (while saying that they WANT something done / see Obama's 1st 4 years).

YOU NEED THE "VOTES" TO "TURN THE FAUCET OFF", and Rubio is trying to do that!

YOUR proposals, while gallant, do nothing to get the VOTES to turn the faucet off! Which keeps us right where we are!

46 posted on 01/29/2013 7:36:47 AM PST by LibFreeUSA
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To: Pelham
"Basically it’s going to be a replay of the battle we had with Bush"

So, your plan then is to keep things the way they are. No compromise (so let's keep the illegals coming daily)!

We don't have the votes to have everything the way we want it. We are losing the battles, and pretty soon we will lose the war if we continue to act so politically foolish, without coming up with a plan to 'turn the faucet off' on illegals coming in and staying here. We don't have the Senate, and the Presidency, so you're content to let illegals keep coming in with no enforcement as is the case now... for the next 4 years un-interrupted.

47 posted on 01/29/2013 7:44:36 AM PST by LibFreeUSA
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To: LibFreeUSA
No. That is NOT TRUE! If you really believe this (that this is what the "proponents of amnesty are wont to create"), then you have fallen into the 'bait' of why there is NO resolution to this issue. That is what 'they' want you to believe.

YES, IT IS TRUE. The amnesty proponents want to create the strawman choice of blanket amnesty or mass deportation. They like to conjure up images of the Holocaust in terms of deportation. Rail cars or trucks lined up with illegal aliens. George Will on Sunday said that he had figured out the number of buses it would take to deport all the illegals. They would stretch from coast to coast.

I am a member of a grassroots immigration organization that lobbies on the Hill and in Richmond. I have been doing this for almost six years. Those in favor of amnesty say that there is no way we can deport all the illegals, hence we must legalize their status. It is an either/or proposition ignoring such things as attrition thru enforcement.

The reality of the situation is that EACH DAY nothing gets done or enforced, more and more illegals are coming in (staying in), and having more babies, and worsening the situation.

Why is nothing getting done? Do you think Obama is going to enforce our laws after he gets his amnesty? Why can't we have enforcement first? Today, Obama will say that he wants amnesty now and that the border is under control. As an aside, even if the border was under control, that doesn't address the 40% of illegals who entered legally and overstayed their visas.

Many states are cracking down on illegals. SCOTUS upheld the AZ law on mandatory E-verify. Parts of AZ 1070 were upheld and being impelemented in Alabama, South Carolina, Georgia, etc.

One side is adamant TO NOT allow ANY "amnesty", while the daily illegal streaming continues unabated. The other side is CONTENT to not GET ANYTHING DONE and letting the daily illegal streaming continue (while saying that they WANT something done / see Obama's 1st 4 years).

Illegal entry is down primarily due to our poor economy. Mexico has a lower unemployment rate than the US. India and China have become two of the largest sources of illegal immigrants. George Bush was actually worse than Obama when it comes to immigration and the enforcement of our laws. Don't forget that amnesty (Hagel-Martinez) passed in the Rep-controlled Senate in 2006.

Motivated by parochial self-interest, the pro-mass immigration, open borders, amnesty advocates have formed a powerful coalition including the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, labor union leaders, the Catholic Church, ethnic and racial groups, “moderate” Republicans, and the Democrat Party. The common thread that unites these groups is power, money, and the prospect of increased constituencies, even at the expense of our long-term national interests and survival.

YOU NEED THE "VOTES" TO "TURN THE FAUCET OFF", and Rubio is trying to do that!

VOTES FROM WHOM TO DO WHAT? DO YOU HONESTLY BELIEVE THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WILL ENFORCE OUR LAWS AFTER AN AMNESTY IS PASSED. DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT HAPPENED IN 1986 WITH THE SIMPSON-MAZZOLI AMNESTY.

This is another case of Charlie Brown and the football. The Reps fall for it every time. It is like raising taxes now and cutting spending later. Let's have more enforcement now before any amnesty is considered. The 1986 amnesty was supposed to be the first and only one. Now we are talking about a second amnesty. Once that is passed, more illegals will enter for the third one. When you reward something, you get more of it.

Rubio is just rehashing the McCain-Kennedy amnesty. It is pure political pandering and it will destroy this country along with the GOP. Do you really think most of the GOP base will support amnesty?

YOUR proposals, while gallant, do nothing to get the VOTES to turn the faucet off! Which keeps us right where we are!

Rubio's proposal will destroy this country. What is the urgency of legalizing the status of illegal aliens? They are already here. And if the truth be known, our legal immigration policies amount to an amnesty every 10 years. The last decade ending in 2010 was the highest in our history in terms of legal immigrants--13.9 million. During that same period we had a net loss of jobs of 400,000. Immigrants are disproportionately on welfare, food stamps, etc. They are less educated, which means they will receive more in government benefits than they pay in taxes. At least half of the illegal aliens lack even a high school degree. Do we really need to legalize millions more high school dropouts?

And Rubio wants to double the number of H1B visas. In the past, the cry was that immigrants do the jobs Americans won't do. That affected blue collar workers. Now, it is about bringing in immigrants to do jobs Americans can't do. This is insanity in a country that has 23 million Americans looking for fulltime employment.

48 posted on 01/29/2013 10:38:37 AM PST by kabar
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To: Logical me
The crazy idea to round all the illegals up and send them back is the most childish immature bunch of silliness I ever heard so spare some of us with this crap.

and the crazy idea to round up all the tax cheats and make them pay is childish and immature. Wait no, the IRS tries to do that all the time.

and the crazy idea to round up all those who don't pay their parking tickets and make them pay is childish and immature. Wait no, the government tries to do that all the time.

You let all that happen without a peep. But when it comes to illegal alien scofflaws being held accountable that's when you complain. So look who's really immature and childish. yeah, it was you all along, wasn't it? dumbass.

49 posted on 01/29/2013 10:44:10 AM PST by Cubs Fan (If the republican party wants to be the democrat lite party then they don't need my vote)
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To: Logical me
The crazy idea to round all the illegals up and send them back is the most childish immature bunch of silliness I ever heard so spare some of us with this crap.

and the crazy idea to round up all the tax cheats and make them pay is childish and immature. Wait no, the IRS tries to do that all the time.

and the crazy idea to round up all those who don't pay their parking tickets and make them pay is childish and immature. Wait no, the government tries to do that all the time.

You let all that happen without a peep. But when it comes to illegal alien scofflaws being held accountable that's when you complain. So look who's really immature and childish. yeah, it was you all along, wasn't it? dumbass.

50 posted on 01/29/2013 10:44:32 AM PST by Cubs Fan (If the republican party wants to be the democrat lite party then they don't need my vote)
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