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US representative calls for outlawing 3-D printed gun magazines.
NBC News Technology ^ | 1/19/13 | Devin Coldewey , NBC News

Posted on 01/19/2013 12:44:11 PM PST by carriage_hill

U.S. Representative Steve Israel (D-Huntington, N.Y.) plans to propose a ban on creating gun magazines with 3-D printers. The bill is still in the drafting stage, but Israel intends to make sure existing legislation includes consideration for this new kind of homemade firearm.

Last month, Rep. Israel proposed to renew the Undetectable Firearms Act, which was adopted in 1988 and will expire in December of this year. Israel suggested that the act, which requires all guns to be detectable by such devices as X-ray machines and metal detectors, is more relevant than ever.

(Excerpt) Read more at nbcnews.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; US: New York
KEYWORDS: 3d; banglist; mags; newyork; printing
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A lib-dem POS is already on this technology, like flies on a pile of...
1 posted on 01/19/2013 12:44:18 PM PST by carriage_hill
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To: carriage_hill

What an idiot. Make whatever laws on manufacturing, possession and use. Who gives a damn if they are printed, stamped, molded or carved out of mastodon ivory.


2 posted on 01/19/2013 12:48:50 PM PST by USMCPOP (Father of LCpl. Karl Linn, KIA 1/26/2005 Al Haqlaniyah, Iraq)
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To: carriage_hill
Work up a box made of metal impregnated cardboard that's easily assembled by almost anyone.

You put it together and toss it in any baggage you intend to check (wouldn't want to mess with the TSA at the passenger entry points ~ they might come unhinged).

With enough bags and enough boxes doing nothing but showing up on Xrays, that should slow down civil aviation to a snail's pace.

Another box would be plain cardboard wrapped with aluminum foil duct tape.

3 posted on 01/19/2013 12:51:30 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

huh?


4 posted on 01/19/2013 1:01:19 PM PST by Rio (Tempis Fugit.)
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To: carriage_hill

Isn’t the creation of undetectable stuff sort of...the point?

We’re just going to have to outlaw all 3D printers.


5 posted on 01/19/2013 1:01:25 PM PST by lurk
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To: muawiyah; USMCPOP

Who didn’t see this coming?


6 posted on 01/19/2013 1:03:01 PM PST by carriage_hill (AR-10s/15s are the 21st Century's Muskets. Self-Defense is The First Human Right.)
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To: lurk

“...outlaw all 3D printers.”

They’re already working on pages and pages and pages of regulations; bet on it.


7 posted on 01/19/2013 1:04:57 PM PST by carriage_hill (AR-10s/15s are the 21st Century's Muskets. Self-Defense is The First Human Right.)
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To: carriage_hill

Democrat politicians have “Jumping On The Band Wagon” honed to a fine art.


8 posted on 01/19/2013 1:05:30 PM PST by Iron Munro (I Miss America, don't you?)
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To: carriage_hill

Plastic magazines aren’t undetectable, they still need metal springs.


9 posted on 01/19/2013 1:06:47 PM PST by Dan Cooper
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To: carriage_hill

Yeah, good luck with that one. [/s]
Typical Liberal idiot—all we need to do is pass a LAW!


10 posted on 01/19/2013 1:07:16 PM PST by rbg81
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To: carriage_hill

Uh what good is a “non detectable” gun or magazine without bullets?


11 posted on 01/19/2013 1:08:28 PM PST by Kozak (The Republic is dead. I do not owe what we have any loyalty, wealth or sympathy.)
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To: carriage_hill

how about we let individual states decide what magazines are or aren’t legal, and not worry how the magazine came into existance?


12 posted on 01/19/2013 1:11:01 PM PST by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: carriage_hill

Which the new technologies will flow around like water, because regulation is like censorship - they will treat it like damage and route around it. “The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems (or anything else)_will slip through your fingers.”


13 posted on 01/19/2013 1:11:31 PM PST by coydog (Time to feed the pigs!)
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To: Dan Cooper
they still need metal springs.

It's possible that the mass of the metal spring would be insufficient to trip a metal detector. Not sure how sensitive they keep them.

14 posted on 01/19/2013 1:14:26 PM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts (Humans have eliminated natural selection. Morons are now a protected species. They breed and vote.)
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To: USMCPOP

magazine, as in receptacle for storing extra rounds and feeding them into firearm, or as in something that people read?


15 posted on 01/19/2013 1:18:25 PM PST by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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To: carriage_hill

The Internet community sees prohibition as a river sees a rock.

It will always be able to go around it.


16 posted on 01/19/2013 1:22:11 PM PST by VanDeKoik
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To: carriage_hill

Fk him and the horse he rode in on !


17 posted on 01/19/2013 1:22:40 PM PST by Renegade
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To: carriage_hill
This is the most useless law ever proposed, and fundamentally misunderstands the technology.

First, almost anyone who would use this to manufacture gun parts knows guns and what parts they want to make, and can create the parts they want by themselves, given enough effort and skill. They cannot ban the transfer of knowledge.

Second, passing a law against possession or manufacturing is unenforceable. Homeland Security can search your house as often as they want, but will only find a printer and spools of plastic filament. The parts won't exist until the person wants them to exist, and whether it is to shoot school children or fight tyranny, the police won't know when the person pushes the print button.

Third, lawmakers want to ban specific items like gun magazines that will fit into certain models of commercial manufactured weapons. But the real genius of the additive manufacturing wave is to push down to the masses a technology that allows them to create personalized objects of their own design. A skilled craftsman can use tools to create new weapons, not just copies of commercial manufactured weapons, that cannot be foreseen by legislators or law enforcement. They may not be even be recognizable as weapons until they are used. Legislators have no ability to ban things that can be made individually and can't be predicted.

We are not crossing into a dangerous new territory, it crosses into an old territory when the local blacksmith had the power and knowledge and tools to create weapons by himself. And yet we survived that era fine. We need to concentrate on the character and mental state of the people involved more than the technology.

18 posted on 01/19/2013 1:31:50 PM PST by Vince Ferrer
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To: carriage_hill

I’m downloading the megapack from DEFCAD -— just in case...


19 posted on 01/19/2013 1:37:25 PM PST by BCW (http://babylonscovertwar.com/index.html)
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To: Iron Munro

Piling-on the “topic de jour”, as usual.


20 posted on 01/19/2013 1:40:40 PM PST by carriage_hill (AR-10s/15s are the 21st Century's Muskets. Self-Defense is The First Human Right.)
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To: lurk

It will start with registration and common sense ban on assault 3d printers.


21 posted on 01/19/2013 1:41:48 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Dan Cooper

IIRC, those printed plastic ‘springs’ didn’t last very long. And I think the feed lips also had some cracking problems.


22 posted on 01/19/2013 1:42:36 PM PST by carriage_hill (AR-10s/15s are the 21st Century's Muskets. Self-Defense is The First Human Right.)
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To: Yo-Yo

That’s too sensible for the lib-dems; they want to regulate and tax it and the printers. I can see a Dept of Technology becoming a cabinet-level post, soon. Actually surprised we’re not there, already.


23 posted on 01/19/2013 1:45:39 PM PST by carriage_hill (AR-10s/15s are the 21st Century's Muskets. Self-Defense is The First Human Right.)
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To: Renegade

FUSI!


24 posted on 01/19/2013 1:46:51 PM PST by carriage_hill (AR-10s/15s are the 21st Century's Muskets. Self-Defense is The First Human Right.)
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To: Vince Ferrer

Points well-taken.

Your point #3 reminds me of the proliferation of “designer drugs” being mfg’d by simply changing a chemical formula, in someone’s garage lab, thereby getting around the DEA/FDA laws and causing them to scramble to pass new regs/laws.

Run, rabbit run!


25 posted on 01/19/2013 1:51:29 PM PST by carriage_hill (AR-10s/15s are the 21st Century's Muskets. Self-Defense is The First Human Right.)
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To: VanDeKoik

There almost always is a way around something.


26 posted on 01/19/2013 1:52:54 PM PST by carriage_hill (AR-10s/15s are the 21st Century's Muskets. Self-Defense is The First Human Right.)
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To: carriage_hill
What if you called it a 3D-printed toothpick dispenser instead?
27 posted on 01/19/2013 1:53:35 PM PST by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: Dan Cooper
Plastic Springs
28 posted on 01/19/2013 1:58:14 PM PST by vbmoneyspender
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To: carriage_hill
Expect some sort of required, built-in software in all future 3-D printers that recognizes what you are trying to print and then refuses to complete the job (similar to the technology that keeps your printer from printing anything that looks like U.S. paper currency.)
29 posted on 01/19/2013 2:00:03 PM PST by GizmosAndGadgets (How Free Are You In America Today?)
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA

That moves it into the FDA/dental hygiene area now, and they’d be all over it like a cheap suit. Ban, or regulate and tax; it’s what the lib-dem do.


30 posted on 01/19/2013 2:01:10 PM PST by carriage_hill (AR-10s/15s are the 21st Century's Muskets. Self-Defense is The First Human Right.)
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To: GizmosAndGadgets

“... keeps your printer from printing anything that looks like U.S. paper currency.”

They can do that now? Wow.


31 posted on 01/19/2013 2:20:58 PM PST by carriage_hill (AR-10s/15s are the 21st Century's Muskets. Self-Defense is The First Human Right.)
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To: lurk
Isn’t the creation of undetectable stuff sort of...the point?

We’re just going to have to outlaw all 3D printers.

That was my thought, I thought the whole point to the 3D printing was to give people a way of always being able to get gun parts and and magazines if the Government bans them outright. Hence a ban on printing such devices would be rather superfluous...

32 posted on 01/19/2013 2:24:50 PM PST by apillar
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To: Dan Cooper
[Plastic magazines aren’t undetectable, they still need metal springs.]

And they'd be detectable when they were loaded. Unloaded they pose no danger.

33 posted on 01/19/2013 2:28:06 PM PST by Brad from Tennessee (A politician can't give you anything he hasn't first stolen from you.)
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To: carriage_hill
Typical commie, this Israel guy imagines he can have a law passed that will stop technological advance.

The commies actually tried to hold back xerography. Fat lot of good that did them.

Fortunately R&D is pushing right ahead with ARMS ~

34 posted on 01/19/2013 2:36:15 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: carriage_hill

Steve’s a real nimrod he is! Just another in a long line of useless, pedantic, democrat asses desperate to get their names on any piece of legislation.


35 posted on 01/19/2013 2:37:37 PM PST by rex regnum insanit (falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus)
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To: Dan Cooper

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&tbo=d&sclient=psy-ab&q=plastic+springs+material&oq=plastic+springs&gs_l=hp.1.1.0l3j0i30.0.0.1.500.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.p5N_508x6VM&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.41248874,d.b2U&fp=e33da1aae51909f2&biw=1600&bih=778 ~ huge bunch of things about plastic springs.


36 posted on 01/19/2013 2:39:52 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Vince Ferrer
Back in the day when the Damascus barrel was top of the line all you needed was a small forge that could melt steel ~ an anvil with a rod for wrapping the steel around, and a 2 pound hammer.

Soon, you'll need an Android cellphone to use as your base, and some cheap plastic pipe to stuff small rockets with miniature guidance systems into ~

Those early armories looked a lot like livery stables with resident ironsmiths. The future armories will look a lot like a kid on a cellphone with plumbing parts.

37 posted on 01/19/2013 2:49:37 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Kozak
Actually since we have incredibly advanced and accurate targeting systems (right there inside the aps on your cellphone) we will go to miniature rockets ~ with limited range but intense accuracy. Toss in some green lasers and you will be carrying around the equivalent of a full Infantry platoon's worth of effective firepower ~ none of it visible or detectable by current technology.
38 posted on 01/19/2013 2:53:43 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: carriage_hill

Only a Demolshevik can read “unalienable rights” and think “but 63% say...”.

Only a Demolshevik can read “shall NOT be infringed” and think “let’s limit them to two or three bullets”.

These people treat the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution like toilet paper. They are the single greatest threat in the world to our liberty.


39 posted on 01/19/2013 2:56:11 PM PST by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: carriage_hill
That had to do with the printing density ~ although your typical laser printer could really lay down some pixels, the federales simply required them to limit the density ~ but smart guys know how to overcome that ~ which is why the federales began adding a coded metalic thread to money.

I have an old friend who is undoubtedly working on that stumbling block ~ he has his counterfeiting convictions to prove his interest.

40 posted on 01/19/2013 2:57:19 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Dan Cooper
Plastic magazines aren’t undetectable, they still need metal springs.

Most use them, but they don't NEED them. A pneumatic system or external rubber elastics would work.

41 posted on 01/19/2013 2:59:50 PM PST by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: carriage_hill

3D printers are the steam engines of the great steel industrial revolution.

But these Islamic dumbnut followers don’t want people getting better, nor smarter as that is an unbelievable threat to their ideology.Even if 3D printing went underground it will outpace everything else, like as some have offered a compasrison of matching automobiles to computing power a decade or so again that every six months a car would double its fuel mileage would more than double its speed and would become so cheap as to be almost disposable and obolete in a years time.

In one year I predict their will be a massive explosion of 3D printers owners, many will just use it as a toy like making toys and trinkets. But many will see it as a tool, and may will push its boundaries, some will attempt to not use plastic but an edible protein substance and will create top sirloin replicas.

Or instead of buying some small over priced trim part like a knob, bezel or logo for your car you can print your own.

The progressives fear the loss of control, of taxation and the individualism of creativity, because that leads to upsetting socialistic agendas.

And America has truly been invaded by a socialist agenda, the 3D printer is solely target as the enemy.

Who cares if a all plastic mag lasts just once? In a full on battle they would be a one time use anyway, any lying around on the ground is free for the picking, or to be recycled.One time use, drop the mag, forget about it, pop another loaded one in your weapon and keep on advancing.

This almost like someone appearing out of nowhere with a blueprint to make the most basic type of an AK rifle during the civil war era, and gunsmiths then were able to make almost every component short of chroming the barrel and smokeless powder, the steel would have been marginal but it would work.


42 posted on 01/19/2013 3:00:06 PM PST by Eye of Unk (AR2 2013 is the American Revolution part 2 of 2013)
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To: carriage_hill
Anyone interested in seeing the limits of gub'mnt control over technology probably ought to watch LOOPERS. It all takes place in the future, but not far into the future. Hugo Gernsberk probably ran the storyline first ~ but it was quite prescient.

The key item is nobody has money anymore. It's more like they have cast silver blocks/sheets that they carry around.

That tells you where criminal subversion of the credit card is going as well ~ nobody has a credit card!

The people 20 years from now (about when this is set) are growing sugar cane in Northern Illinois ~ recombinant DNA technology will give us sugar cane that grows around Hudson's Bay for that matter. In about 20 years.

43 posted on 01/19/2013 3:00:49 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: All
"Welcome to the age of the 3D printed magazine" [video]
44 posted on 01/19/2013 3:25:03 PM PST by Gunslingr3
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To: muawiyah

Also in Loopers is that almost anywhere anytime if someone gets in your face you have the right to nail them with a shotgun.


45 posted on 01/19/2013 3:29:17 PM PST by Eye of Unk (AR2 2013 is the American Revolution part 2 of 2013)
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To: carriage_hill

Have fun trying to put that genie back in the bottle, lefties. You’ve already lost control. America is just giving 0bama his wish for an armed civilian force, except this one won’t take orders.


46 posted on 01/19/2013 3:42:52 PM PST by Trod Upon (Civilian disarmament is the precursor to democide.)
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To: Dan Cooper
Plastic magazines aren’t undetectable, they still need metal springs.

Nothing is undetectable regardless of metal springs or not.

Airport scanners can see everything in your luggage, including a used condom if you should happen to leave one.......

A few years ago I applied for a job with the TSA and went thru their testing program which included identifying certain objects which were photographed from actual xray images from baggage scanners.

Of course you don't see the images in 3-D but rather the outlines of every article in the piece of baggage. And with practice and training, certain shapes will require a personal inspection of that piece of luggage........

Remember the government outcry years ago when the plastic Glocks first came on scene? Liberals all had their panties in a wad claiming that people would be able to carry these firearms on planes undetected...........

47 posted on 01/19/2013 3:46:16 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (Jab her with a harpoon or just throw her from the train......)
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To: Vince Ferrer
We are not crossing into a dangerous new territory, it crosses into an old territory when the local blacksmith had the power and knowledge and tools to create weapons by himself. And yet we survived that era fine. We need to concentrate on the character and mental state of the people involved more than the technology.

Pashtun tribesmen in the tribal areas of Afghanistan apparently make pretty good AK clones. What people don't seem to understand about the gun is that it's a 19th century technology, and most of the changes made to it since then have been design changes rather than to the basic process of making one.

48 posted on 01/19/2013 3:54:22 PM PST by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Trod Upon

Please pardon my interruption:

“America is just giving 0bama his wish for an armed civilian force, except this one won’t take orders.”

I liked your comment so much, I cannot resist. I am learning 3D cad design and I, also, was wondering just how government is going to prevent people from creating their own programs?

Thanks, Nice post :-)


49 posted on 01/19/2013 3:54:57 PM PST by notted (autodidactic)
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To: carriage_hill
U.S. Representative Steve Israel (D-Huntington, N.Y.) plans to propose a ban on creating gun magazines with 3-D printers.

If he knew what he was talking about, it wouldn't be magazines coming out of printers that he'd be worried about.


50 posted on 01/19/2013 3:58:00 PM PST by archy
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