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Do penalties for smokers and the obese make sense?
Record Online ^ | Jan 26, 2013 | Mike Stobbe

Posted on 01/26/2013 12:59:43 PM PST by Vince Ferrer

NEW YORK (AP) -- Faced with the high cost of caring for smokers and overeaters, experts say society must grapple with a blunt question: Instead of trying to penalize them and change their ways, why not just let these health sinners die?

(Excerpt) Read more at hosted.ap.org ...


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events; US: New York
KEYWORDS: antitobaccoscam; bullystate; foodpolice; nannystate; obamacare; obesity; pufflist; scam
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You knew it was coming.

"Your freedom is likely to be someone else's harm," said Daniel Callahan, senior research scholar at a bioethics think-tank, the Hastings Center.

"When you eat yourself to death, you're pretty much just harming yourself," he said.

But that viewpoint doesn't factor in the burden to everyone else of paying for the diabetes care, heart surgeries and other medical expenses incurred by obese people, noted John Cawley, a health economist at Cornell University.

They own us as property now through health care, we have very few rights left. And yes, it was intentional from the beginning.

1 posted on 01/26/2013 12:59:51 PM PST by Vince Ferrer
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To: Vince Ferrer

Why of course... it was always a “control the world” scheme, not just keeping it civilized. Nannies demand to be paid.


2 posted on 01/26/2013 1:03:43 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: Vince Ferrer

An alternative proposal that would make leftists lose their minds:

“The Medical Care Provider And Patient Freedom Act”

1. If a medical care provider does not accept Medicare or Medicaid patients or insurance payments for medical services, they are exempt from Obamacare and HIPPA. This is an Opt Out, with no penalties for either Opting Out or in future joining the system if they so choose.

2. If a patient decides that they exclusively want to use medical services from a provider who has Opted Out of Obamacare, Medicare, Medicaid, and insurance payments for medical care, they may also OPT OUT, and will be exempt from any fines, penalties, or taxation to support these programs. Likewise they will be removed from and no longer participate in all provisions of HIPPA or any other government medical records or statistics information processing or retention system, unless they OPT IN.

3. Physicians and patients who have Opted Out of these systems will no longer have any personal or medical information shared with public or private entities, unless it is essential to their medical care and done with exact permissions for each and every use.


3 posted on 01/26/2013 1:06:20 PM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy (Best WoT news at rantburg.com)
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To: Vince Ferrer

And homos spreading aids? They included in this concept?


4 posted on 01/26/2013 1:06:30 PM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: Vince Ferrer
Along with adulthood come rights, responsibilities, and consequences. The government interfering in this equation is the root cause of our dilemma.
5 posted on 01/26/2013 1:06:55 PM PST by oldbrowser (They are marxists, don't call them democrats)
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To: Vince Ferrer
Interesting gambit: Instead of trying to penalize them and change their ways, why not just let these health sinners die?

How do you suppose they'll respond when we apply this question to AIDS?
Of course thy will use all sorts of vituperation against the questioner but, do they actually plan to stay in power forever?

6 posted on 01/26/2013 1:09:22 PM PST by stormhill
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To: Vince Ferrer
"But that viewpoint doesn't factor in the burden to everyone else of paying for the diabetes care, heart surgeries and other medical expenses incurred by obese people, noted John Cawley, a health economist at Cornell University."

And THAT statement doesn't factor in the insured paying their own insurance.

I have chronic bronchitis (so they say .. actually, I think I have preliminary emphasema from 45 plus years of smoking before quitting about a year ago) and I can treat myself OTC at the moment.

I have cancer care insurance through an NRA authorized 3rd party and a life policy for burial expenses, all coming out of my SS which doesn't leave much, but my needs are few.

How many people actually GET more than outpatient care if they're welfare recipients?

Isn't THAT what this cornball economist is saying?

How can WE ALL be paying ... except it's welfare insurance ?

Is he saying a fat man in need of heart surgery, on welfare GETS that new heart, or lung, or kidney or bypass or whatever ?

If so, THAT'S the travesty of welfare.

Food, housing, clothing and kids insurance is MORE than enough.

7 posted on 01/26/2013 1:12:36 PM PST by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: Vince Ferrer

Well why don’t these liberal controllers apply that same logic to illegals? I am tired of the lie that they contribute more than they take, ever been in a emergency room, they use it as their normal Doctors office. I once waited in a ER for close to two hours with a severe laceration, it took twenty seven stitches, while they kept taking in the undocumented( and yes I know they were, I was close enough to the window were they filled out the forms)with a little cough or such. I finally had to go up to nurse and threaten to remove the bandages I had put on and bleed all over the ER. I have seen Trauma center after trauma center closed in hospitals because they can’t recoup the cost for services from the illegals.


8 posted on 01/26/2013 1:12:48 PM PST by Mastador1 (I'll take a bad dog over a good politician any day!)
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To: Vince Ferrer

In their infinite hypocrisy, the government has somehow decided that hate speech is O.K. when “shaming” obese people? I read that they are thinking of a “shaming” campaign against the overweight? Aren’t they also participating in an “anti-bullying” campaign? Anyone else see the hypocrisy here? Could they really be THAT stupid?


9 posted on 01/26/2013 1:15:23 PM PST by marstegreg
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To: Vince Ferrer

Of course they make sense.... in a public healthcare system. But who the hell wants one of those? The great thing about having private healthcare, is you’re free to do what you want, but in the end, you have to pay for it, not someone else.

This is why private industry succeeds, public industry sucks. You can only spend o much of other people’s money.


10 posted on 01/26/2013 1:16:51 PM PST by Viennacon
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To: Vince Ferrer

It’s all part if the plan. The food pyramid was invented to make people die a lot younger. They want control, plain and simple.


11 posted on 01/26/2013 1:17:16 PM PST by numberonepal (First they came for Sarah, then they came for Herman.....)
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To: marstegreg

The liberals have not succeeded in extirpating those horrid moralizers at all. They’ve simply changed what’s being preached and to whom.


12 posted on 01/26/2013 1:18:42 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: Vince Ferrer

Why don’t these people just mind their own f’n business?


13 posted on 01/26/2013 1:22:11 PM PST by donhunt (Certified and proud "Son of a Bitch".)
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To: Vince Ferrer
I question their figures on the economic cost. Do they take into account the money saved when smokers and the obese die without collecting social security or pensions? How about the cost of taking care of an otherwise healthy 80 year old who is suffering from Alzheimer's?

That said, their argument is that they have a right to regulate your behavior based on economic impact to the state. IMHO, that is the essence of fascism. It should be made clear to these clowns that whipping too many people into fighting condition might well be hazardous to their own health.

14 posted on 01/26/2013 1:22:56 PM PST by beef (Who Killed Kennewick Man?)
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To: Mastador1

Illegals are a huge part of the problem. They (along with regular citizens without insurance) use the emergency room for any and all maladies. Those two groups never pay for the services.


15 posted on 01/26/2013 1:24:31 PM PST by Girlene
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To: DesertRhino
Homos? Oh no, regulating their right to spread a fatal disease would violate the Constitutional right to have sex when, where, and with whomever or whatever you please.

That’s the Constitutional right they're replacing the First and Second Amendments with.

Didn’t you get the memo?

16 posted on 01/26/2013 1:29:31 PM PST by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: numberonepal

There does seem to be a lot of confusion about diet and such. I’m skeptical of magic bullets, and the pyramid might be good for vitamins and minerals but it is not so great for keeping weight reasonable.

But being on the pudgy side myself and having gone back to a particular dieting organization which worked for me before but then I left it for twenty years, they’ve found that a surprisingly reasonable list of foods will do for self-regulated (eat all you need) diets. Extra-lean meats, ANY fruit, cooked cereal, reduced-calorie breads, any vegetable except those that are extremely fatty like olives or avocado, eggs, any nonfat dairy product, whole-grain pastas... molto assai, as they would put it in musical terms. (Juices and sugar don’t get included in that list unfortunately.) AND, reasonable amounts of non fatty condiments like ketchup, mustard, spices etc., AND about 300 calories a day worth of any miscellany you want that’s not on the list (or in the difference between a fatty/sugary product and its nonfat nonsugar counterpart). Not bad huh.

I think a lot of modern foods are richer than they need to be in quantities they are commonly consumed in. Satisfy your pangs with fruit and watch the rest, and you’ll be eating more healthily.


17 posted on 01/26/2013 1:31:38 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: Vince Ferrer
"Critics also contend that tobacco- and calorie-control measures place a disproportionately heavy burden on poor people. That's because they:"

"-Smoke more than the rich, and have higher obesity rates."

Poor people do all kinds of things that are not in their best interests. That's a large part of the reason that they are poor.

18 posted on 01/26/2013 1:31:45 PM PST by Sooth2222 ("Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But I repeat myself." M.Twain)
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To: Vince Ferrer

Many, if not all private insurance companies charge a higher rate for people that smoke. These private insurance companies have the data to back up their position that smokers carry a higher health risk which costs more.


19 posted on 01/26/2013 1:32:28 PM PST by OKRA2012
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To: HiTech RedNeck

The liberals have not succeeded in extirpating those horrid moralizers at all. They’ve simply changed what’s being preached and to whom.

I am REALLY looking forward to seeing how they defend their stance on this one! I how that Candy Crowley does the interview with,perhaps Chris Christie sitting next to her. Now THAT would be interesting!


20 posted on 01/26/2013 1:32:49 PM PST by marstegreg
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To: Vince Ferrer

It does make sense ... but only if it also makes sense to penalize:

Alcohol drinkers

Drug users

People who engage in risky sex practices

Thrillseekers and extreme sports enthusiasts

People who travel to foreign countries rife with diseases eradicated in the West

Reckless drivers

Motorcycle drivers and cyclists who don’t wear helmets

Etc.

____

But you know it will only be smokers and overweigh people.


21 posted on 01/26/2013 1:35:30 PM PST by Lorianne (fedgov, taxporkmoney)
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To: numberonepal

Let me qualify “any fruit” to mean fresh or cooked, and if canned then in juice or water with any juice excluded (it can be made part of the miscellaneous allowance)... but the dried stuff is too concentrated to work. The water content of the fruit matters greatly in the fruit equation.


22 posted on 01/26/2013 1:38:35 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: Lorianne

The nannies will probably look for more. Their hunger for power never gets sated.


23 posted on 01/26/2013 1:41:09 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: Vince Ferrer

Taking care of them shouldn’t be forced on me.

Likewise, I should not force healthier living on them.

If only we had a free country, this would be a non-issue.


24 posted on 01/26/2013 1:41:59 PM PST by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: Vince Ferrer

Government needs to treat people the same. Insurance companies and employers don’t have to, because it affects them. I think leftists and illegals and such should be penalized too, they really hurt this country. :p


25 posted on 01/26/2013 1:42:29 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: marstegreg

Or, would Michael Moore willingly pay a fat-tax? I don’t care if he is a zillionaire who can purchase all the concierge care he likes and probably will, he’s now a burden on Obamacare!!


26 posted on 01/26/2013 1:43:04 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: SampleMan

Indeed... it used to be some commonly agreed idea of what God wanted was enough to keep low level misbehavior in check. For example, if you got extraordinarily too fat you’d likely be looked at as a glutton, even though there was not a single law banning gluttony.


27 posted on 01/26/2013 1:45:24 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: Vince Ferrer

What about active Homosexuals. They are by far the most susceptible to several types of expensive diseases, not to mention massive psychological problems.

Shouldn’t we just allow the unhealthy sodomites die?


28 posted on 01/26/2013 1:51:50 PM PST by Jim from C-Town (The government is rarely benevolent, often malevolent and never benign!)
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To: Jim from C-Town

If homos can be audacious why can’t fatties be audacious too? Pro-choice in corpulence! It’s the only way to go!


29 posted on 01/26/2013 1:55:14 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: Vince Ferrer

The obese may be among the few survivors of the coming progressive famines.


30 posted on 01/26/2013 2:03:57 PM PST by clearcarbon
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To: Vince Ferrer

This was predicted in the sixties before medicare was passed. The’ll use this to bully people and deny them healthcare but all the while they will still be denying healthcare to some because they are older and the real reason is that controlling all healthcare they can get to work on their social security problem. With all the advancements made in healthcare we are now about to see a decrease in our lifespan.


31 posted on 01/26/2013 2:06:16 PM PST by duffee (NO poll tax, NO tax on firearms, ammunition or gun safes. NO gun free zones)
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To: Vince Ferrer

If it’s a sum of money mandated by government...Federal,state of local,,,it’s a *tax*,damn it!


32 posted on 01/26/2013 2:07:20 PM PST by Gay State Conservative ("Progressives" toss the word "racist" like chimps toss their feces.)
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To: DesertRhino

Of course not, that would not only be discrimination but would cause hurt feelings.


33 posted on 01/26/2013 2:10:19 PM PST by duffee (NO poll tax, NO tax on firearms, ammunition or gun safes. NO gun free zones)
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To: Vince Ferrer

Given the fact that alcoholics and meth addicts are coddled as having a disability, punishing the obese and nicotine addicts makes absolutely no sense at all. The liberal mind is really capable of embracing diametrically opposed and mutually exclusive notions at the same time. People are either accountable for a weakness in their character or they’re not. Picking and choosing isn’t fair.


34 posted on 01/26/2013 2:11:11 PM PST by Spok
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To: Vince Ferrer

Susan B. Anthony’s father was in the insurance racket.


35 posted on 01/26/2013 2:20:38 PM PST by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: Spok
People are either accountable for a weakness in their character or they’re not. Picking and choosing isn’t fair.

But that is the premise of socialism.....favoring party members in good standing while punishing those who are not in good standing.

All these decisions about winners and losers comes down to who will provide a base of power for the elite. If it seems unfair, you can do nothing about it because you have no power.

36 posted on 01/26/2013 2:41:17 PM PST by Erik Latranyi (When religions have to beg the gov't for a waiver, we are already under socialism.)
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To: Vince Ferrer

Do penalties for smokers and the obese make cents?


37 posted on 01/26/2013 2:45:31 PM PST by HotKat (Politicians are like diapers; they need to be changed often and for the same reason. Mark Twain)
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To: Vince Ferrer

People better watch out about which groups they impose penatlies and taxes on or they might find themselves in the next such group.


38 posted on 01/26/2013 2:48:33 PM PST by bgill (We've passed the point of no return. Welcome to Al Amerika.)
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To: Vince Ferrer

Like Randy Newmann said,
Fat people got no reason to live


39 posted on 01/26/2013 2:53:44 PM PST by Joe Boucher ((FUBO))
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To: OKRA2012

“These private insurance companies have the data to back up their position that smokers carry a higher health risk which costs more.”

Let’s include data that shows that leftists are also a health risk to people. Leftists inflicted democide on the world in the 20th century that murdered 100 million people. Those same leftists have murdered 50 million babies in the US. Let’s start a leftist control program that eliminates the democrat party.


40 posted on 01/26/2013 2:54:47 PM PST by sergeantdave (The FBI has declared war on the Marine Corps)
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To: Joe Boucher

Ok.
So maybe, just maybe it was short people.
But have you ever sat in coach on a flight from West Palm Beach to Vegas with a real FAT lady with bad cologne next to ya??


41 posted on 01/26/2013 2:56:27 PM PST by Joe Boucher ((FUBO))
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To: Vince Ferrer; Eric Blair 2084; SheLion; Gabz; Hank Kerchief; 383rr; libertarian27; traviskicks; ...

Nanny State PING!


42 posted on 01/26/2013 3:09:53 PM PST by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Happy New Year!)
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To: Vince Ferrer; Eric Blair 2084; SheLion; Gabz; Hank Kerchief; 383rr; libertarian27; traviskicks; ...

Nanny State PING!


43 posted on 01/26/2013 3:10:26 PM PST by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Happy New Year!)
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To: Vince Ferrer

When we penalize aids sufferers then we can talk.

But not until then.


44 posted on 01/26/2013 3:14:47 PM PST by buffaloguy
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Or, would Michael Moore willingly pay a fat-tax? I don’t care if he is a zillionaire who can purchase all the concierge care he likes and probably will, he’s now a burden on Obamacare!!

You are really on the right track! ...and, congratulations for being the first one to “shame” the most deserving of all liberals (badly in need of shaming). I can’t believe you beat me to it!!!!


45 posted on 01/26/2013 3:21:52 PM PST by marstegreg
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To: Vince Ferrer

They can’t [logically] have it both ways. They demand to force you into the system against your will, then they want to use the fact that you’re in the system to dictate your behavior. I’d STILL be OK with that (them choosing behaviors they wouldn’t insure) so long as the severance between you and the program is complete — you’re not eligible for benefits but you’re also exempt from paying IN on the cost/premium side. If they want to decide on a case by case basis whom to cover that’s fine, but they don’t get to withhold coverage and still expect you to pay for it.


46 posted on 01/26/2013 3:50:26 PM PST by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: numberonepal
It’s all part if the plan. The food pyramid was invented to make people die a lot younger.

Good think I thought it was stupid and ignored it, then!

47 posted on 01/26/2013 3:54:14 PM PST by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: beef
That said, their argument is that they have a right to regulate your behavior based on economic impact to the state.

But they don't GET to make that argument because the vast majority of Americans didn't want that and they forced ward of the state for medical care status upon us anyway. It was their idea, let them deal with the problems.

48 posted on 01/26/2013 3:56:06 PM PST by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: duffee
The’ll use this to bully people and deny them healthcare but all the while they will still be denying healthcare to some because they are older and the real reason is that controlling all healthcare they can get to work on their social security problem.

And of course it occurs to them to try to fix the SS problem, one caused by excessive government meddling and collectivism, with......government meddling and collectivism, instead of abolishing same. Oh, for an honest politician who tried first to find a way to solve a problem by returning freedom to the proper people rather than by stealing even more. D'oh!!

49 posted on 01/26/2013 4:04:59 PM PST by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: Still Thinking

I was referring to the what the democrats see as the SS problem, we’re living too long.


50 posted on 01/26/2013 4:36:25 PM PST by duffee (NO poll tax, NO tax on firearms, ammunition or gun safes. NO gun free zones)
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