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Women could be great Navy SEALs, says head of Special Ops
csmonitor.com ^ | January 29, 2013 | Anna Mulrine

Posted on 01/29/2013 7:18:17 PM PST by Tailgunner Joe

The head of Special Operations Forces (SOF) says he supports the integration of women into the elite force.

“It’s time to do this,” says the organization’s top officer, Adm. William McRaven.

“We’ve had women supporting direct Special Operations for quite some time,” he added in remarks Tuesday morning at the Special Operations/Low Intensity Conflict conference in Washington.

The necessity, he said, is ensuring that all special operators are in peak physical condition. “The one thing we want to make sure [we do is] we maintain our standards,” McRaven said. ....

McRaven said that he has been reading recent Pentagon guidance about establishing “gender-neutral standards.”

Currently, he said, “we have no gender standards,” since it is only males who have been going through Ranger and Navy SEAL training, for example.

It’s important that there is not a two-tiered standard of physical requirements going forward, he adds.

That said, McRaven says he has no doubt that some women will flourish in the elite SOF community. “I guarantee you” that there will be females who come to the basic underwater demolition (BUD/S), the Navy SEAL course, “and do a phenomenal job.”

(Excerpt) Read more at csmonitor.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: liar; specialforces; usmilitarybhodod; womenincombat
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1 posted on 01/29/2013 7:18:23 PM PST by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Yep, this was predictable


2 posted on 01/29/2013 7:21:03 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Seems that virtually all top officers have undergone some sort of diabolical disorientation (with an emphasis on political correctness).


3 posted on 01/29/2013 7:21:03 PM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not NurtureĀ™)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

I think they could be great navy seals too. Not the kind that goes on dangerous missions at great risk to themselves, but the kind that has to honk horns in a musical order to get a free fish.


4 posted on 01/29/2013 7:23:50 PM PST by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: steve86

So they have some girls from the special Olympics who are qualified as spec ops?
Simply amazing, Kerry as SecDef, the world is upside down.......


5 posted on 01/29/2013 7:26:36 PM PST by 9422WMR
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To: Tailgunner Joe
Some time ago I saw a documentary that followed a platoon of men and a platoon of women undergoing Marine Recruit Training.It was stated that men and women underwent *exactly* the same training in the USMC...no special consideration was given to the women.After a particularly tough day of training a couple of the guys were interviewed.They appeared tired,sore and even a bit dejected.The women,after the same training schedule,were weeping like little girls.

I wish I could remember the name of the show and find it on youtube and/or DVD.

6 posted on 01/29/2013 7:27:46 PM PST by Gay State Conservative ("Progressives" toss the word "racist" around like chimps toss their feces)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

It seems to me that he may be trying to say all the PC things but still have the standards kept the same. That way there will be no women in the special forces but he will be able to say he tried.

Of course if he was truly honest he would just say the truth.


7 posted on 01/29/2013 7:28:38 PM PST by yarddog (One shot one miss.)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

What about mission planning? Will there be monthly considerations/accommodations?


8 posted on 01/29/2013 7:30:45 PM PST by Ray76 (Do you reject Obama? And all his works? And all his empty promises?)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Yes, only if they integrate them into a BUDS class with no distinction between men and women ... all physical and mental challenges to be equal. If a women can complete BUDS without any consideration for her gender ... go for it.

I know this is an old argument but still a true argument.

However, I suspect that if women are allowed into SEAL training, standards will be lowered either for the women or for the training overall so that women can meet the “standards”.

If this happens, the SEAL teams will become just another special ops contingent with nothing special to offer.


9 posted on 01/29/2013 7:32:15 PM PST by doc1019
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To: Tailgunner Joe
“I guarantee you” that there will be females who come to the basic underwater demolition (BUD/S), the Navy SEAL course, “and do a phenomenal job.”

This a$$hole is sucking up for promotion. It's insulting...

10 posted on 01/29/2013 7:33:20 PM PST by Antoninus II
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To: steve86

I can attest to that. My cuz is cuuurently station in Sokor, and they had a pc course...because the women officers were bitching about the way the NCO’s saluted them, believe it or not. This was the same camp that when Odumbo visited and were looking for volunteers, nobody stepped up. Eventually, most of them were ordered to drop their everyday ops and pretend to smile with Klownie the Kenyan.


11 posted on 01/29/2013 7:39:31 PM PST by max americana (Make the world a better place by punching a liberal in the face)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
SEAL training takes nearly a year and is in three phases: (1) BUD/S (Basic Underwater Demolition/SEAL), (2) Underwater Swimmer, (3) Land Warfare. After completion of Phase 3, the newly minted SEAL is assigned to a team for operational evaluation by the team members. The new team member is probationary until the team says otherwise. A team can washout a probationary member even at this late stage. Bottom line is that it takes 18 months to win the trident as a bona fide SEAL.

BUD/S has a very high attrition rate and the DOR (drop on request) rate is roughly 75 to 85 percent. Attrition continues in second and third phases. All the SEAL candidates are in top physical shape, but physical strength is not enough. The WILL to dig down deep and push on through pain and lack of sleep and deprivation is something few people have inside. That is the quality that makes SEALs special and why there are so very few of them. Can G.I. Jane qualify? If the guys have such high attrition rates, what woman in her right mind would apply? How many could make the cut?

12 posted on 01/29/2013 7:40:54 PM PST by MasterGunner01
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To: Tailgunner Joe

The women could do the explosives part if it was a synchronized swimming position. They’ll never pass the test.


13 posted on 01/29/2013 7:41:02 PM PST by huldah1776
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Hahahaha.

Drug test all flag officers daily. EOD.


14 posted on 01/29/2013 7:43:29 PM PST by bayouranger (The 1st victim of islam is the person who practices the lie.)
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To: Gay State Conservative
The women,after the same training schedule,were weeping like little girls.

Most likely they weren't expecting the DIs to actually yell at them. I'm sure that things improved as they got to know each other better...(snicker)

Regards,
GtG

PS I pay good money for a DVD of their BUD/S training!

15 posted on 01/29/2013 7:43:29 PM PST by Gandalf_The_Gray (I live in my own little world, I like it 'cuz they know me here.)
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To: max americana
Eventually, most of them were ordered to drop their everyday ops and pretend to smile with Klownie the Kenyan.

This is what the Democrats have been shooting for. Get as many as possible on the Govt Plantation. Now they're going for broke with granting amnesty for 11+ million illegals on that same plantation....

16 posted on 01/29/2013 7:44:15 PM PST by Antoninus II
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To: Tailgunner Joe

William McRaven is a servant of the Usurper.


17 posted on 01/29/2013 7:49:53 PM PST by Godebert (No Person Except a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN!)
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To: Gay State Conservative

>>>>Some time ago I saw a documentary that followed a platoon of men and a platoon of women undergoing Marine Recruit Training.It was stated that men and women underwent *exactly* the same training in the USMC...no special consideration was given to the women.After a particularly tough day of training a couple of the guys were interviewed.They appeared tired,sore and even a bit dejected.The women,after the same training schedule,were weeping like little girls.

I wish I could remember the name of the show and find it on youtube and/or DVD.<<<<

In fact female body can survive much longer in a cold environment and it is easier for them to absorb harsh psychological stress for some reason. It made women dominate Soviet sniper corps and night bomber aircrews during WWII. Female teams scored better average results as anti aircraft gunners for Soviets too.
In any other department they couldn’t cope with male soldiers and primary reason is a lack of physical strength.
There is a reason why sports are sexually segregated. You can’t make women play football or box with men. For that same reason you can’t put them in infantry, let alone specops.


18 posted on 01/29/2013 7:51:39 PM PST by cunning_fish
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To: Antoninus II

There’s a reason why you don’t see any pics of Odumbo with the the grunts. From my cuz told me on leave a year ago, they ALL intentionally showed pissed off faces in the pictures.

The MSM photogs assigned to the trip didn’t use any of them as they were bad. The BN were all laughing in the mess hall later when he left. To add, the grunts didn’t like the way the SS treated them and there was some scuffles afterwards. You don;t hear any of this in the news..


19 posted on 01/29/2013 7:55:17 PM PST by max americana (Make the world a better place by punching a liberal in the face)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Yeaaaa.... right.

Mr. Log will set this right. Mr. Log don’t care about political correctness.


20 posted on 01/29/2013 7:55:17 PM PST by NVDave
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To: Tailgunner Joe

I’ve been in combat with Seals. I’ve never met a woman that could equal those men. Sounds like the Admiral has drunk the PC Kool-aid.


21 posted on 01/29/2013 8:04:54 PM PST by SailormanCGA72
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To: MasterGunner01

Doubt it. Most men physically couldn’t become a SEAL if they absolutely wanted to.

I know I couldn’t of in my prime. My metabolism was too high, I dehydrate too easily, and cannot function on less than 6 hours sleep, and I’m man enough to admit it. That’s why I didn’t join the Marines with the papers right in front of me, I knew I couldn’t cut it at that age.

I don’t know of any woman who could pass SEAL training and operate at their level. They are simply not built for that, physically or mentally. That’s life, that’s reality.


22 posted on 01/29/2013 8:11:08 PM PST by Free Vulcan (Vote Republican! [You can vote Democrat when you're dead]...)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

First screening test using a live grenade:

Can the women candidates throw a hand grenade far enough to not be killed or wounded by the grenade?


23 posted on 01/29/2013 8:12:19 PM PST by Calamari (Pass enough laws and everyone is guilty of something.)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

McRaven should be forced to retire, he’s been kissing *** long enough.


24 posted on 01/29/2013 8:12:38 PM PST by jazusamo ("Mercy to the guilty is cruelty to the innocent." -- Adam Smith)
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To: SailormanCGA72

I thought so too, but he drops in the equal standards thing knowing no woman can achieve that, and IMO is very nicely telling them to F off.


25 posted on 01/29/2013 8:14:19 PM PST by Free Vulcan (Vote Republican! [You can vote Democrat when you're dead]...)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Yeah, lower the physical standards for SEALS down to that of mall cops. That’ll work.


26 posted on 01/29/2013 8:15:32 PM PST by lurk
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To: cunning_fish

I have watched portions of special forces training for Seals, Rangers, etc. After watching, it was clear to me that I could not hack it and I was one heck of an athlete.

One that particularly stuck out to me was Air Force spec ops swimming around with tires around their necks. This was at Hurlburt field. All of this was on tv. I was not there in person.

For instance, I could run a 10.4 hundred meters. Does the fact that no woman in the world could run that fast not make some people a little curious? Interestingly that is one event where women do fairly well, at least one did. “Flo Jo” ran a 10.5 hundred meters and no other woman has really come close.

Of course that Jamaican guy ran faster than I would ever have guessed a human would do. Basically we probably throw out those as they are too far off the mean.

Those guys who only run 9.9 would include one in a hundred million, probably closer to one in a billion. Same thing with girls, those who can run 10,6 are maybe 1 in 100,000,000 or even one in a billion.

Still I was faster than 3 or 4 billion females and we had a guy on our college team who ran a 10 flat. He was ranked in the top ten in the world and he would have beaten a similarly ranked female by over 30 feet.

I remember tacking star college running backs. I would love to see the girl who could take a hit from one of those running backs once they got up speed and not get a concussion.


27 posted on 01/29/2013 8:21:15 PM PST by yarddog (One shot one miss.)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

When I was at the Naval Academy, the O-course had separate obstacles for men and women. The wall was lower for the women, some obstacles had “steps” they could use, and they were permitted to run around some obstacles. One night, the women portions of the obstacles were painted pink by some of the mids, the administration did not think it was funny. The official story from the administration was that the physical requirements were to be as difficult for the women as compared to other women, not to other men.

Today’s Navy is so PC it makes me ill. Try to find the test scores of minorities admitted to the Naval Academy as compared to all persons taking the SAT or all incoming plebes. You wont be able to because the Naval Academy only provides the scores for minority plebes as compared to other minorities.

I once was proud to have attended the Naval Academy and to have served in the US Navy. Now I am frequently embarrassed.

The standards will be lowered so women can pass.


28 posted on 01/29/2013 8:21:24 PM PST by wfu_deacons
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To: Tailgunner Joe

They make better Mermaids...


29 posted on 01/29/2013 8:23:21 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: steve86

The jewels are in the lockbox.


30 posted on 01/29/2013 8:23:33 PM PST by Paladin2
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Funny, Obama didn’t promise tis when he ran for re-election. Must have forgotten.


31 posted on 01/29/2013 8:26:57 PM PST by Our man in washington
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Most guys can’t make it through SEAL training.

How’s it going to look when no women (and we’re talking very fit women) can make it through SEAL training?

You think that’s the result they are looking for? And will be happy with?


32 posted on 01/29/2013 8:30:22 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: Free Vulcan

Knowing your own limits and being honest about them makes you a better opponent. Just doing that. You can work on or compensate for weaknesses and build up strengths.


33 posted on 01/29/2013 8:36:52 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

On another site where I post, a guy who appears to be a SEAL says it’s all about the weight you can carry (after you’re an actual live SEAL).

100 rounds of 5.56 weighs 3 pounds. Stuff starts adding up fast.


34 posted on 01/29/2013 8:39:14 PM PST by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: Secret Agent Man

You know what the answer is.

They will make the course easier for the women then tell everyone that they go through the same course. That will be true to an extent. If they cannot go over a wall, they will be allowed to go around it while they would never allow a guy to do the same.

If they fall off the rope into the water they will be allowed to either swim or walk ashore or have a lifesaver bring them ashore.

Yes they will go through the same training as the men but in a much easier way.

Actually TV and movies have been showing women typically beating up men for so long, a lot people actually believe it.

Of course the girls have to be gorgeous Charlie’s Angels types while the men will usually be bald headed middle aged men. For some reason the TV/Movie makers love to have beautiful women beat up middle aged guys.


35 posted on 01/29/2013 8:44:59 PM PST by yarddog (One shot one miss.)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
They already have, haven't they?


36 posted on 01/29/2013 8:45:36 PM PST by Trailerpark Badass (So?)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

I am no military expert—but this sounds like an extremely bad idea.


37 posted on 01/29/2013 8:47:26 PM PST by proud American in Canada (Please pray for America. She needs God's help more than ever now.)
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To: Secret Agent Man
A quote from another site (and a younger, fitter man):

No doubt some women will be able to make it through the training of say Ranger School and or BUD/S. Absolutely NO way will they be able to 'bear the weight' you are required to carry for real missions. In BUD/S we did a couple marches and slow jobs with a 40lb ruck sack. Longest was 12 miles.

In my team, we regularly humped an 85lb kit for 20 miles over 3 days or swam that same kit for 4 miles and then walked some distance once over the beach.

Even today, my basic loadout (helmet, weapons, plates, rifle, carriers, ammo, NVGs, radio, med kit) weighs 60 lbs. No backpack, grenades, grenade launchers, smokes, flares, food, satcoms, HF/VHF radios, cameras, laptops, snivel gear, or water.

Just one man's opinion, but it's not the training they they will fail at, it is the mission requiring moving your lightweight gear, on foot, to the fight.

38 posted on 01/29/2013 8:48:11 PM PST by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: steve86
Seems that virtually all top officers have undergone some sort of diabolical disorientation <<<

Naaah...its just when your boss wears pink and mentions how you'd look good in it to.....you picture yourself in his position..... wearing pink..

39 posted on 01/29/2013 8:50:40 PM PST by M-cubed
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To: kiryandil

This may be BS but I’ve heard that one exercise that the SEALS have to do is sit in a room all day in swim shorts and no heat and complete exercises at a desk. There are no bathroom breaks, no time outs no leaving your desk. If you have to go you have to do it in your shorts.

Maybe you can verify.


40 posted on 01/29/2013 8:52:10 PM PST by USAF80
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To: Tailgunner Joe
Once again, from a younger, fitter man:

The standards in basic training will be the same, but basic training is a far cry easier than operational training and real missions. Our instructors would always say, "you think you're cold now, wait til you are in the teams... you'll look back on this as easy" or, "you think this is hard? Wait til your in the teams". I always thought they were full of shit, it just didn't seem possible to be colder than bone chilling, teeth rattling cold. Or anything could be harder than BUD/S. I was wrong.

I'm just saying that when it comes time to do real world infantry-type missions, there is no "training time out". It's just you, your ruck and your rifle, and I don't think women can carry 50% of their body weight without serious issues. A 200lb guy can carry an 80lb ruck with extreme difficulty; a 150lb woman simply won't be able to do it. YMMV.

41 posted on 01/29/2013 8:52:44 PM PST by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: yarddog

What will they say when a woman dies in SEAL training?


42 posted on 01/29/2013 8:53:01 PM PST by Terry Mross (How long does America have?)
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To: Terry Mross

They will praise her to high heaven. Oddly enough, I would not mind since she would have given it her all.


43 posted on 01/29/2013 8:59:45 PM PST by yarddog (One shot one miss.)
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To: USAF80
No, I can't verify.

This may be BS but I’ve heard that one exercise that the SEALS have to do is sit in a room all day in swim shorts and no heat and complete exercises at a desk. There are no bathroom breaks, no time outs no leaving your desk. If you have to go you have to do it in your shorts.

BFD. I can do that, and have, by accident, without being a SEAL.

44 posted on 01/29/2013 9:15:00 PM PST by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: kiryandil

I think we all did the first couple of years of life.


45 posted on 01/29/2013 9:16:43 PM PST by USAF80
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To: Tailgunner Joe

“Women could be great Navy SEALs, says head of Special Ops”

Mr. McRaven, this song is dedicated to you:

“Liar, liar, pants on fire
Your nose is longer than a telephone wire”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8rCy173y7Y


46 posted on 01/29/2013 9:24:48 PM PST by ReformationFan
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To: Terry Mross

They’ll say “It’s all George W. Bush’s fault!!!” or Rush Limbaugh’s.


47 posted on 01/29/2013 9:28:33 PM PST by ReformationFan
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To: Secret Agent Man
"Most guys can’t make it through SEAL training. How’s it going to look when no women (and we’re talking very fit women) can make it through SEAL training? You think that’s the result they are looking for? And will be happy with?"

No it isn't. They know there is no way in hell ANY women can compete with men on that level. You don't need to be a military expert to know this. Just a little common sense and logic between the ears.

These military commanders are trying to sell the myth created by "The battle of the sexes" tennis match between Bobby Riggs and Billie Jean King. Many people to this day think women can actually compete with men. The reality is it's not even close. Men are vastly stronger and faster than women. When you push any athletic competition to the strongest best men and compare that to the strongest best women you absolutely guarantee that NO WOMEN will ever be able to compete, much less win.

Liberalism will destroy the military just as it destroys anything it touches.

48 posted on 01/29/2013 9:34:31 PM PST by precisionshootist
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To: precisionshootist

“You don’t need to be a military expert to know this. Just a little common sense and logic between the ears.”

Common sense and logic have been declared “hate crimes” by the Obama administration.


49 posted on 01/29/2013 9:50:15 PM PST by ReformationFan
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To: 9422WMR

Kerry as SecState.

Come on man !


50 posted on 01/29/2013 10:18:57 PM PST by onona (KCCO, and mind the gap)
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