Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Europe: The world’s new superpower
National Post ^ | Jan 29, 2013 10:10 AM ET | Anne Applebaum

Posted on 01/29/2013 11:22:32 PM PST by Olog-hai

“A decade of war is now ending,” U.S. President Barack Obama declared Monday. Maybe that’s true in America, but it isn’t true anywhere else. Extremists are still plotting acts of terror. Authoritarian and autocratic regimes are still using violence to preserve their power. The United States can step back from international conflicts, but that won’t make them disappear.

Fortunately, there is another power that shares America’s economic and political values, that possesses sophisticated military technology and is also very interested in stopping the progress of fanatical movements, especially in North Africa and the Middle East. That power is Europe. …

A number of obstacles must be overcome before the European Union could become the world’s policeman. Although combined European military spending does make the EU the world’s second-largest military power, it still isn’t enough for a sustained conflict. Some Europeans, most notably the Germans, would have to overcome their post-Second World War abhorrence of soldiers. Other Europeans, most notably the British, would have to be convinced, as others have concluded, that Americans just aren’t that interested in NATO anymore. … These are big obstacles. But what’s the alternative? If America is to enjoy “peace in our time”—an expression now deployed by both Barack Obama and Neville Chamberlain—while the rest of the world remains at war, then someone else will fill the vacuum.

(Excerpt) Read more at fullcomment.nationalpost.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: eurobanking; europeanunion; eussr; eusuperpower; totalitarianism
Uh, no. Europe (i.e. the EU) does not share US economic and political values. The liberal politicians shares EU values with the EU.

Take note of the echoing of “peace for our time” by Obama. That ought to be a 130-decibel wakeup call. This is what happens when the USA abandons the role of world policeman.
1 posted on 01/29/2013 11:22:44 PM PST by Olog-hai
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Olog-hai

They are morally and economically bankrupt, and have become wussies who blanche at the thought of combat, and when they finally DO muster the will to intervene,,,, they cannot do anything meanigful unless they can get the USA to carry the load.

How does that add up to superpower?


2 posted on 01/29/2013 11:38:58 PM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Olog-hai

“This is what happens when the USA abandons the role of world policeman.”

I feel no need whatsoever for the USA to be the world’s policeman. We should only intervene when a critical US interest is at risk. Not this modern theory that EVERYTHING is a critical US interest.
The Balkan war,,,No.
The Syrian civil war, Nope.
Africa? Nowhere. Somalia was a soviet client state,, why did we go there AT ALL?
Libya, no.
Rwanda, nope.
Falkland Islands,,nope.

I am beginning to wonder if it is possible for someone to have a war anywhere on earth that we cannot use sophistry to explain why it is a “critical US interest”.


3 posted on 01/29/2013 11:46:58 PM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DesertRhino

The EU is an empire. An empire that is squashing a lot of freedoms within its borders too, e.g. freedom of the press, freedom of speech, habeas corpus, and so on. For this entity to take on the role of “world policeman” means something different from the US playing the role, and if they are given the power (and we have an administration only too willing to do just that), they will use it for war and conquest. Be very careful what you wish for.


4 posted on 01/29/2013 11:53:05 PM PST by Olog-hai
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: DesertRhino; All

I’m glad that France is taking point on the mess in Mali and Algeria since they helped create the underlying conditions. We have spent far too much money on keeping troops in Europe when they should have been paying for their own freight.


5 posted on 01/29/2013 11:55:18 PM PST by gleeaikin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Olog-hai

....France and Germany are going to save the world?


6 posted on 01/29/2013 11:56:23 PM PST by Tzimisce (The American Revolution began when the British attempted to disarm the Colonists.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DesertRhino
PS. To drag the US off the world scene with wars provoked from the outside unfinished is to declare enmity to the ideals of the Founding Fathers, e.g. George Washington for a great example:
If we desire to avoid insult, we must be able to repel it. If we desire to secure peace, one of the most powerful instruments of our rising prosperity, it must be known that we are at all times ready for war.
Abandoning this mindset means ever-increasing trouble for the USA.
7 posted on 01/29/2013 11:57:02 PM PST by Olog-hai
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Tzimisce

Amusing notion, but no, that is not their intent.


8 posted on 01/29/2013 11:58:31 PM PST by Olog-hai
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Olog-hai
Per Ezra Pound:

For an old bitch gone in the teeth,
For a botched civilization,

9 posted on 01/30/2013 12:14:29 AM PST by nickcarraway
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DesertRhino

DesertRhino: “We should only intervene when a critical US interest is at risk.”

Bears repeating.

No more Team America: World Police!


10 posted on 01/30/2013 12:21:16 AM PST by CitizenUSA (Why celebrate evil? Evil is easy. Good is the goal worth striving for.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

Comment #11 Removed by Moderator

To: Tzimisce
Tzimisce: "....France and Germany are going to save the world?" ROTFLOL (literally). Now that is one of the funniest jokes I've heard all year.
12 posted on 01/30/2013 12:24:15 AM PST by CitizenUSA (Why celebrate evil? Evil is easy. Good is the goal worth striving for.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Olog-hai

Olog-hai: “Abandoning this mindset means ever-increasing trouble for the USA.”

There’s nothing wrong with going to war for vital American interests, but that doesn’t necessarily involve US troops acting like police instead of warriors. If we’re going in to destroy the enemy, I’m with you. Otherwise, no.


13 posted on 01/30/2013 12:27:50 AM PST by CitizenUSA (Why celebrate evil? Evil is easy. Good is the goal worth striving for.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: DesertRhino

Yup. I thought this was a piece from the Onion.

What’s next? Greece is the banking capital of the world?


14 posted on 01/30/2013 12:30:41 AM PST by max americana (Make the world a better place by punching a liberal in the face)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Olog-hai
The EU is an empire. An empire that is squashing a lot of freedoms within its borders too

As witness the story now out (see thread elsewhere on FR) that the EU is prepared to thrust uncut homosexualism on British schools and curricula, and that any teacher resisting the homojuggernaut will be disciplined, up to and including prison.

How's about them apples? Wonder what Sir Francis Bacon would make of all that?

15 posted on 01/30/2013 12:43:52 AM PST by lentulusgracchus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Olog-hai

The founding fathers would be horrified at your suggestion that we become the worlds policeman and go fight endless wars without a critical US interest.

That quote clearly only meant one thing, and one thing only. That is that when a critical AMERICAN interest is threatened, we must be ready to fight.
It does not mean when a Hutu wants to go club his neighbors, there is no US interest.
It does not mean that when both sides of the Syrian civil war are evil, and we get nothing in trade from Syria, we MUST be involved.

In the Balkans, it was soooo critical to the peace of Europe, and ergo, it was an “American interest”. America was browbeaten for not intervening there. So then why weren’t Austria, the Czech republic, the Germans, The Dutch, the Belgians, the Swiss, and the Greeks invading?

If the whole region fell into the Ocean, America would not have been impacted in any way.

You are simply wrong to imagine that almost every war on earth is somehow a “provocation” against the US by it’s very occurrance. The founders were almost diametrically opposed to your stance.
Wars solely designed to spread our form of government to other nations would have seemed insane to them.

Trouble for the USA comes from intervening where we have no interests, but refusing to intervene where we have an actual US interest. (like Mexico)


16 posted on 01/30/2013 12:55:42 AM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: DesertRhino

Should read:

“It does not mean when a Hutu wants to go club his neighbors, there is a US interest.”


17 posted on 01/30/2013 12:58:31 AM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Olog-hai
[Your Washington quote]
"If we desire to secure peace, one of the most powerful instruments of our rising prosperity, it must be known that we are at all times ready for war."

Obama is deceiving the public. His policy is to abandon hard-fought U.S. gains against the Islamists and their terror apparatus. He is destroying the fruits of victory, quite likely out of enmity toward the U.S., i.e. he is committing high treason and coloring it with the name of "policy".

Communists and Islamists have always wanted to impose pacifist policies on the West -- so they can attack at leisure. Obama is prosecuting that enemy policy right now, and the promise of "peace in our time" is a lie bigger even than Chamberlain's folly.

18 posted on 01/30/2013 1:09:37 AM PST by lentulusgracchus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: gleeaikin
I’m glad that France is taking point on the mess in Mali and Algeria since they helped create the underlying conditions.

The French have never ceased their involvement there. They stopped Khaddafy cold when he tried to take over Chad 20 years ago. They've also been present in some of the failed states of West Africa when things got nasty.

19 posted on 01/30/2013 1:18:54 AM PST by lentulusgracchus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Olog-hai

The EU is incapable of tying its own shoelaces let alone assume the mantle of world superpower. “Someone” will indeed fill any power vacuum but it won’t be the EU. How’s your Chinese?


20 posted on 01/30/2013 1:29:04 AM PST by Cincinatus (Omnia relinquit servare Rempublicam)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Olog-hai
Meet four of the 5,000 Brits who become Muslims each year
21 posted on 01/30/2013 2:09:25 AM PST by Berlin_Freeper (Molon Labe)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lentulusgracchus
EU is prepared to thrust uncut homosexualism on British schools and curricula, and that any teacher resisting the homojuggernaut will be disciplined, up to and including prison.

With due respect, it's not the EU imposing this. It's what the British people want...

22 posted on 01/30/2013 2:28:02 AM PST by Cronos
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Olog-hai

Yet one more propaganda piece from the 0bama regime...the EU is a mess - everyone knows - and to churn out an article like this - have it published on the Internet show s such complicity towards lies and deceit. This continues the liberal agenda - more socialist lies - and maybe the public will swallow it...

No one is buying the Kool-Aid Jim Jones...Ann Applebum needs to go back to the Shire and leave the real world to those of us who aren’t living in fiction.


23 posted on 01/30/2013 3:19:52 AM PST by BCW (http://babylonscovertwar.com/index.html)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Olog-hai
Sounds like End Times chess pieces moving. Europe will be the re-emerged "Rome" that will help empower the antichrist.

The US is on the road to rapid decline: militarily, economically, and culturally.

24 posted on 01/30/2013 3:37:28 AM PST by SkyPilot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Olog-hai

Europe spends nothing on defense. The US and UK provide it free of charge. I would think ability to defend oneself is probably a superpower prerequisite, no?


25 posted on 01/30/2013 3:55:39 AM PST by wolfman23601
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Olog-hai

At least the Europeans know how to anneal a bolt, which puts them miles ahead in military prowess over the ChiComm apes.

That alone qualifies the Europeans for some minor military roles when needed. The English and French can still field some kick-ass ground pounders.


26 posted on 01/30/2013 5:46:10 AM PST by sergeantdave (The FBI has declared war on the Marine Corps)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DesertRhino

Since when is the expansion of Islamism, and that which identifies the USA as the “Great Satan”, not a US interest? “Intervening where we have no interest” is nothing but liberal propaganda; the USA has never done that.

The Founding Fathers would be horrified at rampant pacifism in the USA while warmongers were rising in the world. They would identify it as the same trait that would have left the colonies tied to the British Empire and thus weakened. Brush up on the Founding Fathers; I already provided a direct quote from one of them.


27 posted on 01/30/2013 8:49:37 AM PST by Olog-hai
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus
That’s presuming a unipolar world. Obama threw that away. The world is becoming multipolar once more. And the EU has had plans to unite all of their member states militaries (in a progressive manner) ever since the ratification of the Treaty of Maastricht back in 1992. The EU basically controls NATO right now, as well.
28 posted on 01/30/2013 8:57:03 AM PST by Olog-hai
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: wolfman23601
Actually, the EU collectively spends about €200 billion ($271 billion) per year on defense right now; that of course is just about a third of what the US spends, but if Obama pushes the EU to start becoming more active militarily, they are not short of resources to increase it, never mind being able to call on other member states to start pitching in, especially under what they now call “permanent structured cooperation”. The treaties regard the individual militaries of all member states to be the collective EU military, and at the disposal of the EU central government, per Article 42 section 3 of the Treaty of Lisbon.
Member States shall make civilian and military capabilities available to the Union for the implementation of the common security and defense policy, to contribute to the objectives defined by the Council. Those Member States which together establish multinational forces may also make them available to the common security and defense policy.

Member States shall undertake progressively to improve their military capabilities. An Agency in the field of defense capabilities development, research, acquisition and armaments (hereinafter referred to as “the European Defense Agency”) shall identify operational requirements, shall promote measures to satisfy those requirements, shall contribute to identifying and, where appropriate, implementing any measure needed to strengthen the industrial and technological base of the defense sector, shall participate in defining a European capabilities and armaments policy, and shall assist the Council in evaluating the improvement of military capabilities.
No opt-out here. The European Defense Agency has been active since 2004, as well. On top of that, there is also the “solidarity clause” of Article 42, that being in Section 7:
If a Member State is the victim of armed aggression on its territory, the other Member States shall have towards it an obligation of aid and assistance by all the means in their power, in accordance with Article 51 of the United Nations Charter. This shall not prejudice the specific character of the security and defense policy of certain Member States.
Since there are no more “pacifist” member states of the EU, then all of them are obliged to pitch in as the EDA sees fit to command them to do. All it will take is one more attack on EU soil (this clause wasn’t in the Treaty of Nice). And of course, Article 51 of the UN Charter says the following:
Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defense if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. Measures taken by Members in the exercise of this right of self-defense shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security.

29 posted on 01/30/2013 9:18:45 AM PST by Olog-hai
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Olog-hai; AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; ...

Not a chance. The current economic giants of Europe can't go a week without either guest workers (in the case of Germany) or some national strike (France), and moving troops overseas is a nice, long-term way of ensuring an early retirement from what had been a nice political career. Thanks Olog-hai.
OPEC Has Already Turned to the Euro
GoldMoney Alert
February 18, 2004


...The source for the euro exchange rate is the Federal Reserve, and I have calculated the euro's average exchange rate to the dollar for each year based on daily data.
US Imports of Crude oil
(1)
(2)
(3)
(4)
(5)
(6)
Year
Quantity (thousands of barrels)
Value (thousands of US dollars)
Unit price (US dollars)
Average daily US$ per € exchange rate
Unit price (euros)

2001

3,471,066
74,292,894
21.40
0.8952
23.91
2002
3,418,021
77,283,329
22.61
0.9454
23.92
2003
3,673,596
99,094,675
26.97
1.1321
23.82
We can see from column (4) in the above table that in 2001, each barrel of imported crude oil cost $21.40 on average for that year. But by 2003 the average price of a barrel of crude oil had risen 26.0% to $26.97 per barrel. However, the important point is shown in column (6). Note that the price of crude oil in terms of euros is essentially unchanged throughout this 3-year period.

As the dollar has fallen, the dollar price of crude oil has risen. But the euro price of crude oil remains essentially unchanged throughout this 3-year period. It does not seem logical that this result is pure coincidence. It is more likely the result of purposeful design, namely, that OPEC is mindful of the dollar's decline and increases the dollar price of its crude oil by an amount that offsets the loss in purchasing power OPEC's members would otherwise incur. In short, OPEC is protecting its purchasing power as the dollar declines.

30 posted on 01/30/2013 8:03:41 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

But the population of most of Europe is declining; about the only countries with a healthy growth rate are Bosnia and Albania. If the EU is a superpower, it won’t be for long.


31 posted on 02/01/2013 5:09:58 PM PST by Berosus (I wish I had as much faith in God as liberals have in government.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Berosus

And the countries with big birthrates, worldwide, are often predominantly muzzie. The way the EU plans to grow is by suckering in more members. Before the debacles in Greece and Italy, and close calls elsewhere, the underdeveloped candidates probably cooled on the idea, looking instead at the Turkish model — neither in nor out, but enjoying most of the economic benefits without surrendering sovereignty.


32 posted on 02/02/2013 9:20:17 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson