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Reliving Horror and Faint Hope at Massacre Site (sandy Hook First Responders)
NYTIMES ^ | 1/28 | ray rivera

Posted on 01/30/2013 8:20:05 AM PST by RummyChick

NEWTOWN, Conn. — The gunfire ended; it was so quiet they could hear the broken glass and bullet casings scraping under their boots. The smell of gunpowder filled the air. The officers turned down their radios; they did not want to give away their positions if there was still a gunman present.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Connecticut
KEYWORDS: newtown; sandyhook; sandyhooktruthers
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"The officers and their union are reaching out to state lawmakers, hoping to expand workers’ compensation benefits to include those who witness horrific violence. "
1 posted on 01/30/2013 8:20:16 AM PST by RummyChick
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To: RummyChick

Oh and Creepy Gene’s story??

http://www.people.com/people/package/article/0,,20656736_20658893,00.html

So who is telling the truth???


2 posted on 01/30/2013 8:23:26 AM PST by RummyChick
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To: RummyChick
So who is telling the truth???

If it's a gamble on truth, I'll take whichever side is NOT named 'NYTimes"!

3 posted on 01/30/2013 8:36:59 AM PST by SomeCallMeTim ( The best minds are not in government. If any were, business would hire them)
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To: RummyChick
The officers and their union are reaching out to state lawmakers, hoping to expand workers’ compensation benefits to include those who witness horrific violence.

WTF? Idiot reporter needs to talk to a parent. Typical NYT

4 posted on 01/30/2013 8:43:30 AM PST by Texas Fossil
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To: RummyChick
they could hear the broken glass and bullet casings scraping under their boots

Really? Lets say that at total of 100 "bullet casings" were ejected from Lanza's weapons, more than alleged by the police. Each one occupies about .004 square feet. So all together they covered about .46 square feet, or about one half of a standard 12" square vinyl tile of the sort used to cover floors in schools. Or about one part in 100,000 or less for the typical school. Or the probability that a tile had a cartridge case on it was 1 in 1000.

And needless to say most people avoid stepping on shiny round objects on tile floors, since they can roll out from under your shoe, and falling over isn't usually a good idea.

More fiction from the NY Times intended to stir up feelings instead of focusing attention and thinking on how to prevent mentally ill killers from launching terror attacks.

5 posted on 01/30/2013 8:46:50 AM PST by freeandfreezing
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To: SomeCallMeTim

No, it’s between Creepy Gene VS the boy in Soto’s class who lived and his mother.


6 posted on 01/30/2013 8:47:36 AM PST by RummyChick
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To: RummyChick

If they level that school because of it’s memories it will only remind me of the Muir Bldg in OK that they leveled to hide evidence.


7 posted on 01/30/2013 8:51:43 AM PST by Rappini (Veritas vos Liberabit)
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To: RummyChick

My compliments to these officers. They were there within 3 minutes, secured the perimeter, and were quickly in the building from all directions, and then had to deal with a horrific scene.


8 posted on 01/30/2013 8:58:50 AM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: freeandfreezing
"....most people avoid stepping on shiny round objects on tile floors,..."

What kind of LEO would contaminate a crime scene by stomping on evidence....oh, never mind.......

9 posted on 01/30/2013 9:13:16 AM PST by Psalm 73 ("Gentlemen, you can't fight in here - this is the War Room".)
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To: Psalm 73

I’m pretty sure that you worry about stopping a mass murderer’s rampage and helping the victims BEFORE you worry about crime scene protocols.


10 posted on 01/30/2013 9:18:38 AM PST by Boogieman
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To: Psalm 73
What kind of LEO would contaminate a crime scene by stomping on evidence....

Probably because they had to step on those shiny objects on the floor in order to get to the children across the room who might have been still alive???

11 posted on 01/30/2013 9:20:30 AM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip
You have been defending Creepy Gene on EVERY thread that has a post that questions him.

What , no defense now????

So are Bryce Maksel and his Mother lying??







12 posted on 01/30/2013 9:31:05 AM PST by RummyChick
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To: Boogieman; freeandfreezing
"I’m pretty sure that you worry about stopping a mass murderer’s rampage..."

I still would defer to "freeandfreezing" post 5 - and the killer was long dead by the time they got there.
Not taking anything away from the LEOs, but one needs to recognize the embellishments of the NYT writers.

And according to the timeline, it was 20 minutes from the time the 1st call came in to the time they entered the building - I guess they were observing some type of "protocol".

13 posted on 01/30/2013 9:37:23 AM PST by Psalm 73 ("Gentlemen, you can't fight in here - this is the War Room".)
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To: RummyChick
The Sandy Hook first responders were unarmed, and died.

The second responders got there in minutes, when seconds counted.

14 posted on 01/30/2013 9:42:40 AM PST by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: Psalm 73

“the killer was long dead by the time they got there.”

That’s not true, nor is the “20 minutes” story true. They were on the scene within 3 minutes, and entered the building not very long after that.

Also, even if Lanza was dead when police entered the building, they had no way of knowing that until they found the body, and even after that, they would not know there weren’t other shooters until the building was cleared. Nobody is going to worry about crime scene integrity until all of that is done and the children are out of harm’s way.


15 posted on 01/30/2013 9:44:15 AM PST by Boogieman
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To: RummyChick



16 posted on 01/30/2013 9:46:09 AM PST by RummyChick
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To: Boogieman

“I’m pretty sure that you worry about stopping a mass murderer’s rampage and helping the victims BEFORE you worry about crime scene protocols.”

Oh, so they stopped the mass murderer’s rampage, did they?

Answer: No the cops didn’t. Like most crimes tho, they are there to clean up after the fact


17 posted on 01/30/2013 9:50:00 AM PST by saleman (!!!!)
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To: Rappini

They did the same thing at Mt Carmel in Waco.


18 posted on 01/30/2013 10:00:46 AM PST by matthew fuller (The ultimate horror flick- 2016 Obama's America.)
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To: saleman

“Oh, so they stopped the mass murderer’s rampage, did they?”

Did I say they did?


19 posted on 01/30/2013 10:04:01 AM PST by Boogieman
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To: Psalm 73

So far as those officers knew it was an ONGOING crime scene; the objective then is to stop the crime from continuing.


20 posted on 01/30/2013 10:04:14 AM PST by EDINVA
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To: RummyChick
Teachers were so protective of their students that they had to be coaxed by officers before opening doors. And the officers themselves, many of them fathers, instinctively used their most soothing Daddy voices to guide terrified children to safety.

More evidence that there were kids in the school, and that those kids were evacuated. I mention because there are freepers who still, last time I noticed, were arguing that the kids weren't evacuated because they didn't see helicopter video of it.

The stories also reveal the deep stress that lingers for officers who, until Dec. 14, had focused their energies on maintaining order in a low-crime corner of suburbia.

More evidence, that the police, even in a "low-crime" area, are powerless to "protect" the citizens. They can enforce laws, they can investigate, they can catch criminals. It will be a rare occurrence when I police officer manages to STOP someone from committing an initial crime.

“You could tell it was rifle fire."

More evidence against those who claim the rifle was not used in the shooting.

had blasted his way through the glass.

More evidence against those who claim the glass was not broken.

Officer Chapman cradled her in his arms and ran with her outside, to an ambulance.
...
ran with her out to a triage area set up in the parking lot.

Evidence against those who claim that there were no ambulances near the school, and no treatment of survivors.

21 posted on 01/30/2013 10:08:30 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: RummyChick

Politics aside, lanza is one of the biggest assholes in history. Hope he rots in hell.


22 posted on 01/30/2013 10:08:30 AM PST by Monty22002
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To: RummyChick; Uncle Chip
I don't have a firm opinion about Gene. But in fact, the article you quote at least provides some support for his story.

One of the objections was how kids could end up a Gene's house, and this article confirms that a group of kids ran out of the school and ended up down the road.

(BTW, this also points out that in at least this case, violating the school lockdown policy saved lives).

There was only one line in the entire article that would contradict the "Gene" story, and that wasn't a statement BY the mom or the child. It was a statement the mother said she got from "another mom":

Not long afterward another mom told Jen that five kids who'd escaped were at the Newtown police station. "She said two moms found them running down the road a half mile from the school," Jen says.
So if could be that this "other mom" got a bad story about the kids, and was repeating it. Or it could be that in fact two other moms found the kids, and Gene is lying. But behind all this, I have to believe that the police had interviewed those kids by now, and if they had said they had never seen Gene, we'd know it.

While the reporter in this story actually talked with this kid, they never asked the kid about Gene, or if they did, they didn't report it. Which is too bad, because a few questions and answers would have put this whole "Crazy Gene" thing to rest, one way or another.

I guess in the end, I still lean toward believing at least the basic information from the Gene story, if for no other reason than I can't think of why a guy would make up having the kids in his house, when it would be so easily refuted by just asking the kids. So I think the kids probably DID end up in his house.

If so, it seems a plausible story that the kids just ran out (confirmed by this article), ran down the street, ran into a bus driver who was trapped by the congestion, the bus driver invited them on the bus, gene saw this, came out and offered them shelter, and the bus driver and kids went into the house.

"plausible" doesn't mean accurate, just that I don't see it as inherently unbelievable. I also think Gene at least embellished his story.

23 posted on 01/30/2013 10:32:58 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: CharlesWayneCT
So are you going to tell me how Creepy Gene's story can be true if Bryce Maksel and his mother are telling the truth????
Something is weird about Gene Rosen.

The latest is that Rosen is the same Rosen that works for Fema.

It doesn't look like him to me.

It's not the same Gene Rosen that has the SAG card.

But something is off about Creepy Gene.


24 posted on 01/30/2013 10:36:25 AM PST by RummyChick
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To: Boogieman

I posted exactly what you said.

“I’m pretty sure that you worry about stopping a mass murderer’s rampage....”

That’s great that they worried about it. Might woulda helped if “they” could have stopped it.

I don’t know, maybe if there were someone with a gun there at the school then they could have stopped it?

Nawwwwww.....


25 posted on 01/30/2013 10:40:00 AM PST by saleman (!!!!)
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To: CharlesWayneCT

You can’t have the mother’s story being true and Creepy gene’s Story being true.

Did you notice the part about kids being lined up at the Firehouse????

And the kids at the police Station??????

And did you look at the class photo of Vicki Soto’s class.

Not enough kids for Creepy Gene’s story to be true.

Creepy Gene said the parents were called and picked them up at Creepy Gene’s house.


26 posted on 01/30/2013 10:40:45 AM PST by RummyChick
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To: saleman

Well, Lanza was shooting people up until the point when he saw the cops closing in on him, and then he shot himself and the rampage stopped. So, what, are you faulting the police for? Should they have just sent in an airstrike so Lanza wouldn’t see them and get the chance to off himself?


27 posted on 01/30/2013 10:49:27 AM PST by Boogieman
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To: Psalm 73; freeandfreezing

<>I still would defer to “freeandfreezing” post 5 - and the killer was long dead by the time they got there.<>

And you would be wrong because the police were in the school by 9:40 but Lanza didn’t kill himself until 9:46 and they didn’t discover it until about 9:49.

Police Dispatch that morning is here and a matter of public record:

http://nhregister.com/articles/2012/12/14/news/doc50cc0897adc1a203744261.txt?viewmode=default


28 posted on 01/30/2013 10:56:22 AM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: RummyChick

“It’s not the same Gene Rosen that has the SAG card.”

Lol, is that the only evidence the truthers had for saying he was an actor? I’m pretty sure you can find someone in SAG with nearly any common American name. In fact, I just checked, and there is an actor with my exact first and last name, so I’m sure you could find “me” in the SAG database. Doesn’t make me an actor though, otherwise I am missing out on some royalties :)


29 posted on 01/30/2013 11:00:23 AM PST by Boogieman
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To: RummyChick

Perhaps you could enlighten me as to where Gene Rosen is mentioned in the article???


30 posted on 01/30/2013 11:05:40 AM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: Boogieman

My point is with the article and with police and first responders. The fact is: these police weren’t “heroic”. The fact is they didn’t do one damn thing to stop this. The fact is they showed up after the fact to clean the mess up. That’s what the police do 99% of the time. You know and I know the “Protect” in protect and serve is BS. The courts even know this that is why you can’t sue a cop for not protecting you from a crime. If it’s heroic to clean up the blood and guts after the fact then the janitor in the school cafeteria is heroic cause I’ll guarentee there were some horrible messes in there.

Do you sense I have a problem with cops? Then you would be right.


31 posted on 01/30/2013 11:12:00 AM PST by saleman (!!!!)
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To: RummyChick
Wake up Creepy Gene
Oh, what can it mean
to a Network deciever
and a TV drama queen?

(sorry :) )

32 posted on 01/30/2013 11:15:08 AM PST by SparkyBass
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To: RummyChick
Barf!

"Faint hope"?!?!?!?!

How about we start repealing all of the >22,000 gun laws that hamstring this great Republic.

I don't want "Faint Hope".

I want a Fighting Chance.

That's not too much to ask.

If self-defense saves even one life, it's worth it.

33 posted on 01/30/2013 11:18:02 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: RummyChick

So how can Creepy Gene’s story be true??

Is it possible that Creepy Gene’s kids got picked up by their parents and then the parents took them to the schoolhouse to hang out for hours and line up.

Does that pass a smell test.

Your kid just ran for his life. You pick him up at Creepy Gene’s house. Are you going to have him stand around for hours and hours at the firehouse????

Probably not.

But let’s say you did.

Weren’t some of the Soto’s kids found alive in the classroom?? Some found dead.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/12/16/newtown-shootings-gunman-soto-details/1772791/

Some found at the Police Station.


34 posted on 01/30/2013 11:19:25 AM PST by RummyChick
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To: Uncle Chip

“Perhaps you could enlighten me as to where Gene Rosen is mentioned in the article???”

Creepy Gene isn’t mentioned in the article.

I am waiting for you to tell me how their story can be true if Creepy Gene’s story is true.

Were there any live kids found in Soto’s class?


35 posted on 01/30/2013 11:22:01 AM PST by RummyChick
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To: SparkyBass

I think about that song when trying to figure out Creepy Gene.

I like your words

His story may be true but so far I can’t see how it could be.

And he is just plain creepy.


36 posted on 01/30/2013 11:24:00 AM PST by RummyChick
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To: CharlesWayneCT; RummyChick

So it could be that this “other mom” got a bad story about the kids:

Here is the interview with one of the two moms who saw the kids running down to the fire station which is right next to Gene’s house. This would have been just after the police entered the school at 9:40 and when he killed himself at 9:46.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptbd6qRY358


37 posted on 01/30/2013 11:29:25 AM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: saleman

“The fact is: these police weren’t “heroic”. The fact is they didn’t do one damn thing to stop this.”

That just isn’t true. The shooting was still going on when they arrived on the scene. They entered the building, and Lanza shot himself only because he knew they were coming for him. If they hadn’t responded so quickly, he wouldn’t have shot himself so soon, and would have just shot more people. So, the police response saved lives, and they deserve to be commended for it.


38 posted on 01/30/2013 11:36:51 AM PST by Boogieman
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To: Uncle Chip

First of all , you have to decide if the narrative that Soto was a hero who died while shielding her kids in a closet is true.

Or if she lined them up against a wall and somehow all the live children fled with none found alive in the classroom.

Between going to a closet and lining up against a wall a smart teacher should have tried to put them in the closet

http://www.people.com/people/package/article/0,,20656736_20658893,00.html

But regardless, Creepy Gene said the parents picked up the children at his house and he hugged them.


39 posted on 01/30/2013 11:37:28 AM PST by RummyChick
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To: RummyChick

oops, here is the lined up against the wall like a fire squad story

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57559513/newtown-massacre-teacher-vicki-sotos-heroics-remembered/


40 posted on 01/30/2013 11:38:27 AM PST by RummyChick
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To: RummyChick

:)
I simply had to finally write it down.
Every time I’ve seen the term “Creepy Gene” that song, or whatever is left of it in my sad, sorry skull, starts playing!

And you are right, whether true (there are holes in it) or not, that guy is just downright creepy.


41 posted on 01/30/2013 11:47:24 AM PST by SparkyBass
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To: Uncle Chip
My compliments to these officers. They were there within 3 minutes, secured the perimeter, and were quickly in the building from all directions, and then had to deal with a horrific scene.

I agree. They did what they could in the circumstances. But anyone involved in law enforcement, or emergency medical services, knows that dealing with horrific scenes and gut wrenching emotions is part of the job. If someone is truly disabled by some event, than they should be eligible for workers compensation. But this NY Times piece seems more calculated to stir up emotions than anything else.

42 posted on 01/30/2013 11:48:14 AM PST by freeandfreezing
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To: SparkyBass

The latest on videos is people talking about the recycling of people.

Like this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrXPHwl11io

You can see Creepy Gene on it. The guy in the yellow sweatshirt is a hoot.

To be fair to him, there was an incident with a guy with a camera. Yellow shirt guy may have been walking around like that because he wanted to see what happened

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QNVr3uHyu0

The striking thing for me is still that we don’t see the 700 kids. The principle had listed in something she had written that there about 700 kids in her school. I can’t remember the exact number.

That would mean there should be a lot of parents and a lot of kids that are missing from helicopter shots.


43 posted on 01/30/2013 11:59:08 AM PST by RummyChick
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To: RummyChick

We know that there were a bunch of kids from the

school toward the fire station. They were seen by two mothers driving up to the school.

It’s entirely possible that one of the mothers that Gene called came and picked up her kid and then took the rest of the kids in her SUV over to the police station.

It’s also possible that one of these two mothers picked them up and took them over to the police station.

Something wrong with that???


44 posted on 01/30/2013 12:03:29 PM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: Boogieman

“If they hadn’t responded so quickly, he wouldn’t have shot himself so soon, and would have just shot more people. So, the police response saved lives, and they deserve to be commended for it.”

Yea, well they do say that much of the secret to sucess in life is just showing up. So, they got that going for them.


45 posted on 01/30/2013 12:03:53 PM PST by saleman (!!!!)
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To: freeandfreezing

I’m not going to disagree with you there —


46 posted on 01/30/2013 12:10:00 PM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: RummyChick

Here:

The events in another first-grade classroom in which most of the students survived remain uncertain, with varying accounts attributed to the surviving children. Teacher Victoria Leigh Soto was reported to have attempted to hide several children in a closet and cupboards.[31][32] As Lanza entered her classroom, Soto reportedly told him that the children were in the auditorium. Several of the children then came out of their hiding place and tried to run for safety and were shot dead. Soto put herself between her students and the shooter, who then fatally shot her.[32] Six surviving children from Soto’s class crawled out of the cupboards after the shooting and fled the school. They and a school bus driver took refuge at a nearby home.[33] As reported by his parents, a six-year-old boy in Soto’s class fled with a group of his classmates and the children escaped through the door when Lanza shot their teacher.[34]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Hook_Elementary_School_shooting


47 posted on 01/30/2013 12:23:28 PM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip

that doesn’t fit his narrative.

He goes into how the teacher was assassinated and the only thing left for them was their parents and THEIR PARENTS came to pick them up and he hugged them and his arms weren’t long enough.

That is from a Daytime interview.

You are the expert on defending Creepy Gene.

Were kids found alive in Soto’s class or not?


48 posted on 01/30/2013 12:30:59 PM PST by RummyChick
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To: Uncle Chip

You are posting numbers that don’t add up.

Seven found alive in the classroom. How many were dead from that class?

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/12/17/new-details-the-heroic-story-of-sandy-hook-first-grade-teacher-vicki-soto/

At least Licata and Bryce were at the police station.

“Licata’s son and some classmates ran past the gunman, out of the school and to a nearby road. Another parent, driving up to the campus, saw the group of kids, pulled over and asked what they were doing. She had been going to Sandy Hook to deliver a gingerbread house.

“Someone is trying to kill us. We were told to run,” the children said, according to the Stamford Advocate.

The mother tried to call the school. No answer. So she rushed the children to the police station.

And that’s where Licata found his son.”

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/dec/15/nation/la-na-shooting-tick-tock-20121216/2

She didn’t drop them off at Creepy Gene’s house.


49 posted on 01/30/2013 12:43:37 PM PST by RummyChick
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To: RummyChick
that doesn’t fit his narrative.

And you know that for sure!!!

You are the expert on defending Creepy Gene.

Another strawman accusation for which you have become notorious. I've said little to nothing about him.

Were kids found alive in Soto’s class or not?

Are you saying that these six kids were not from Ms Soto's class and did not run down the road??? or what???

50 posted on 01/30/2013 12:45:36 PM PST by Uncle Chip
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