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Boeing Battery Fires Highlight Folly of Obama's Electric Car Push
Investors.com ^ | January 30, 2013 | Editorial

Posted on 01/30/2013 4:45:49 PM PST by jazusamo

Industrial policy: After lithium-ion batteries caught fire on Boeing's new Dreamliner, stories popped up about how dangerous they are. Turns out they're the same kind of batteries President Obama is forcing into U.S. cars.

This month, a Boeing 787 battery caught fire while the plane was sitting at Logan Airport in Boston. Another 787 was forced to land while flying over Japan, forcing Boeing to ground its fleet of state-of-the-art 787s.

In the wake of these events, the press suddenly took notice of the risks posed by lithium-ion batteries.

USA Today complained that the FAA should have been more cautious about letting Boeing use the batteries, given their "long-known vulnerabilities."

The New York Times reported that "the lithium-ion batteries used on the aircraft had experienced multiple problems that raised questions about their reliability," adding that "regulators have long known about the risks of lithium-ion batteries."

Another news story noted that "lithium-ion batteries are more dangerous because they store more energy" than traditional batteries.

Indeed, despite their advantages over traditional battery technology — longer life, more energy storage, less weight — and their widespread use in consumer products, lithium-ion batteries have something of a checkered past.

As USA Today notes, they've "set off explosions in some consumer products" and resulted in millions of laptop battery recalls.

In 2010, a UPS cargo plane crashed near Dubai, killing both pilots, after its cargo of lithium-ion batteries started burning.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.investors.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Government
KEYWORDS: aerospace; batteries; boeing; electricvehicles; envirowhackos; greens; obama; subsidies

1 posted on 01/30/2013 4:45:55 PM PST by jazusamo
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To: jazusamo

....and the sale of A123 battery to China...


2 posted on 01/30/2013 4:47:55 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: cripplecreek

Exactly, that’s a real head slapper.


3 posted on 01/30/2013 4:50:23 PM PST by jazusamo ("Mercy to the guilty is cruelty to the innocent." -- Adam Smith)
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To: jazusamo

Boeing has no choice. These batteries have to be replaced with the older more stable batteries. No choice!


4 posted on 01/30/2013 4:54:06 PM PST by rawhide
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To: jazusamo

These guys at Boeing are suppose to be engineers. They surely would have known.


5 posted on 01/30/2013 4:55:51 PM PST by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: rawhide

That’s correct, if they don’t this will more than likely bankrupt them.


6 posted on 01/30/2013 4:58:57 PM PST by jazusamo ("Mercy to the guilty is cruelty to the innocent." -- Adam Smith)
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To: rawhide

7 posted on 01/30/2013 4:59:03 PM PST by carriage_hill (AR-10s & AR-15s are the 21st Century's Muskets. The 2nd Amendment is the First Human Right.)
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To: freekitty

Boeing up to this fiasco has had a stellar safety reputation and they knew of this lithium ion battery problem, I don’t understand this.


8 posted on 01/30/2013 5:04:00 PM PST by jazusamo ("Mercy to the guilty is cruelty to the innocent." -- Adam Smith)
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To: jazusamo

Obama and his minions would approve of them going bankrupt.


9 posted on 01/30/2013 5:04:59 PM PST by FreeAtlanta (bahits.com)
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To: jazusamo

These things have been igniting or exploding since their inception. If they’re shorted or their internal cell walls leak, they can cause catistopic failures.


10 posted on 01/30/2013 5:08:27 PM PST by uncommonsense (Conservatives believe what they see; Liberals see what they believe.)
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To: jazusamo

Another case of doing what the boss says. Remember they did not make the move to South Carolina. They were told not to probably and also told to use batteries. All speculation on my part.


11 posted on 01/30/2013 5:09:46 PM PST by taterjay
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To: jazusamo
In fact, the battery technology necessary to make the Chevrolet Volt and the 787 viable and perform to design standards, does not yet exist.

There are research success's and indications that these batteries may eventually be constructed in a size that is necessary for the Volt or 787 to met specs, but they don't exist now.

12 posted on 01/30/2013 5:09:58 PM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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Obama's obsession with electric cars

Freepers, your Contributions make every difference!
Please keep ‘em coming! Thank you all very much!

13 posted on 01/30/2013 5:11:29 PM PST by RedMDer (HEY LIBS! GUN FREE ZONE T-SHIRTS AVAILABLE NOW. I DARE YA!)
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To: jazusamo

I’ll bet they got some kind of feral tax credit for buying them.


14 posted on 01/30/2013 5:11:29 PM PST by Cold Heart
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To: jazusamo

I understand a replacement battery for a Tesla is 40K.
That’s about what I’ve paid for all the cars I have owned.
(and I’m an old fart.)


15 posted on 01/30/2013 5:11:33 PM PST by sasquatch
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To: uncommonsense
These things have been igniting or exploding since their inception. If they’re shorted or their internal cell walls leak, they can cause catistopic failures.
16 posted on 01/30/2013 5:14:19 PM PST by MrShoop
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To: sasquatch

Tesla proves the “one born every minute” thesis.

My buddy’s daughter put down 5 grand deposit for one that won’t even be manufactured until 2014.

And the nearest dealer is 3 hrs away.


17 posted on 01/30/2013 5:15:33 PM PST by nascarnation (Baraq's economic policy: trickle up poverty)
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To: jazusamo
Government should never mandate a particular technology.
It virtually guarantees that the price will remain high and it stifles development of better or cheaper alternatives.
If Flat Screen TVs had been made mandatory early on and everybody were entitled to them, they would still cost $10k.

18 posted on 01/30/2013 5:16:21 PM PST by BitWielder1 (Corporate Profits are better than Government Waste)
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To: carriage_hill; Cold Heart; cripplecreek; FreeAtlanta; freekitty; jazusamo; MrShoop; Navy Patriot; ..

Just as we have been forced to abandon DDT, Nuclear Energy, Freon (Foam on the Space Shuttle Main Tank) and other common sense technology for lesser and even deadly substitutes we have here, another casualty of the “progressive” agenda.


19 posted on 01/30/2013 5:24:45 PM PST by infool7 (The ugly truth is just a big lie.)
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To: jazusamo

I will add that I think the Dreamliner will be the best commercial craft ever conceived after they shake out the issues. It’s hull is made of composites that are far stronger and lighter than anything to date and it’ll save a huge amount of $’s in fuel costs. Carbon is an AMAZING compound - guess that’s why God invented it and used it to create us...


20 posted on 01/30/2013 5:27:43 PM PST by uncommonsense (Conservatives believe what they see; Liberals see what they believe.)
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To: uncommonsense

I couldn’t agree more but they had better iron this problem out with a foolproof fix and pretty quick, it’s costing them now but nothing like it’ll cost them say a year from now.


21 posted on 01/30/2013 5:33:32 PM PST by jazusamo ("Mercy to the guilty is cruelty to the innocent." -- Adam Smith)
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To: jazusamo
I agree, it does not make sense that they were not more skeptical, especially considering the CARGO safety record of Ni ion batts in flight (not to mention, the chevy (ugh) volt.)

One suspects, and hopes, that Boeing engineers are working up a replacement Ni-Cd battery and charging system, including all of the weight and balance calcs, safety sensors, and cockpit warnings and controls at this moment; and, that they will be doing the certification testing asap.

Maybe they are..."sparked" into action, eh?

.

22 posted on 01/30/2013 5:38:18 PM PST by Seaplaner (Never give in. Never give in. Never...except to convictions of honour and good sense. W. Churchill)
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To: jazusamo

I remember seeing Boeing’s commercials about the Dreamliner for years and years. It seemed to emphasize globalism, diversity, and environmentalism. It kind of gave me the feeling that something like this would happen. And...sure enough.


23 posted on 01/30/2013 5:39:23 PM PST by rbg81
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To: MrShoop
"catistopic"

Ok, you caught me. I can't see very well, compounded by using a Blackberry. It's challenging to function with myopia, hyperopia, and presbyopia at the same time. Luckily my right eye is the one that's far sighted (hyperopia) - it's my shooting eye (-;

24 posted on 01/30/2013 5:40:16 PM PST by uncommonsense (Conservatives believe what they see; Liberals see what they believe.)
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To: infool7

Affirmative, but this is worse in the philosophy that we can build the better parachute on the way down.


25 posted on 01/30/2013 5:53:30 PM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: jazusamo
Boeing up to this fiasco has had a stellar safety reputation and they knew of this lithium ion battery problem, I don’t understand this.

Perhaps the White Hut made Boeing an offer they could not refuse.

26 posted on 01/30/2013 5:54:46 PM PST by COBOL2Java (Fighting Obama without Boehner & McConnell is like going deer hunting without your accordion)
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To: BitWielder1
If Flat Screen TVs had been made mandatory early on and everybody were entitled to them, they would still cost $10k.

And they would explode. If I recall, the number one cause of apartment fires in the old Soviet Union was television sets suddenly catching fire.

27 posted on 01/30/2013 6:13:19 PM PST by COBOL2Java (Fighting Obama without Boehner & McConnell is like going deer hunting without your accordion)
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To: jazusamo
"but they had better iron this problem out with a foolproof fix and pretty quick, it’s costing them now but nothing like it’ll cost them say a year from now."

Indeed. I wonder if Juran Quality Engineering is still taught (the other quality guru without an award named after himself). The 1-10-100 principal is still relevant: it costs $1 to fix a fault during design, $10 while in production, and $100 while out in the field.

Also, I wish software engineering managers knew this and would stick to their guns...

28 posted on 01/30/2013 6:13:34 PM PST by uncommonsense (Conservatives believe what they see; Liberals see what they believe.)
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To: taterjay
Remember they did not make the move to South Carolina.

They did make the move. Dreamliners are made in Charleston, SC.

29 posted on 01/30/2013 6:32:01 PM PST by upchuck (America's at an awkward stage. Too late to work within the system, too early to shoot the bastards.)
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To: jazusamo

Good Grief!. The Volt and Karma problems were easily solved. How many ICE cars have caught on fire?


30 posted on 01/30/2013 7:25:11 PM PST by willk
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To: willk

The Karma problem sure hasn’t been solved. Their battery was built by A123 systems and they’re bust and being sold to the Chinese the company Wanxiang. Will be interesting to see what happens.


31 posted on 01/30/2013 8:18:14 PM PST by jazusamo ("Mercy to the guilty is cruelty to the innocent." -- Adam Smith)
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To: Navy Patriot

I agree it’s probably worse then we both think it is but we’ve been in tighter spots and if only the adults would stand up and take charge we probably can make that parachute before we hit the ground.


32 posted on 01/30/2013 8:44:55 PM PST by infool7 (The ugly truth is just a big lie.)
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To: Navy Patriot

I agree it’s probably worse then we both think it is but we’ve been in tighter spots and if only the adults would stand up and take charge we probably can make that parachute before we hit the ground.


33 posted on 01/30/2013 8:45:02 PM PST by infool7 (The ugly truth is just a big lie.)
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To: infool7
...if only the adults would stand up and take charge we probably can make that parachute before we hit the ground.

Certainly we can gain more time in fall, Make the Volt hybrid with current reliable battery technology (already done), lower payload on 787 and use current reliable battery technology, back off from E-15% to E-0% and eliminate food riots in foreign countries, ban all boutique gasoline blends, build XL pipeline and jail environmentalists, just to name a few.

34 posted on 01/31/2013 8:25:32 AM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: jazusamo

Just the wrong batteries for the job:
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/elon-musk-boeing-787-battery-fundamentally-unsafe-381627/

The lithium ion batteries installed on the Boeing 787 are inherently unsafe, says Elon Musk, founder of SpaceX and owner of electric car maker Tesla.

“Unfortunately, the pack architecture supplied to Boeing is inherently unsafe,” writes Musk in an email to Flightglobal.

“Large cells without enough space between them to isolate against the cell-to-cell thermal domino effect means it is simply a matter of time before there are more incidents of this nature,” he adds.


35 posted on 02/01/2013 6:25:06 AM PST by MHalblaub ("Easy my friends, when it comes to the point it is only a drawing made by a non believing Dane...")
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