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Spanish secessionism makes first move: Catalonia is “a sovereign political and legal entity”
MercoPress ^ | January 28, 2013

Posted on 02/01/2013 8:41:34 AM PST by JerseyanExile

Catalonia regional parliament has approved a declaration proclaiming the Catalan people a “sovereign political and legal entity”. The motion also calls for a referendum to be held to allow Catalans their say on independence.

The motion was passed by 85 votes to 41. The ruling Convergencia I Union coalition was backed by its parliamentary partner Esquerra Republicana (ERC), and the communist green coalition ICV.

The Partido Popular, most of the Catalan socialists (PSC) Party, and Ciutadans, a non-separatist platform, voted against.

The growing separatist movement in wealthy Catalonia - which has its own language - presents a major challenge for Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy as he fights to maintain Spanish unity and steer the country out of a deep economic and fiscal crisis. Rajoy’s government says it will fight on constitutional grounds any attempt to hold a referendum on secession from Spain. It is widely believed that if Catalonia holds a referendum, the Basque Country would follow, potentially breaking up Spain.

The declaration backs the right to self determination and states that “all existing legal means will be utilized to effect democratic strengthening and the exercise of the right to decide in dialogue and negotiation with the Spanish state, the European institutions and the international community.” The exact nature of the text had caused divisions in the Socialist ranks and among the upper echelons of the CiU coalition.

ERC leader Oriol Junqueras opened the debate on what he called a “historic day.”

“Sovereignty implies, literally, that there is nothing that ranks higher than the democratic will of the people,” Junqueras said. In response to the Socialists’ proposal for shared sovereignty with Spain, Junqueras noted: “The right to decide cannot be shared with another legal entity. The right to decide is a matter of one, not two or three.”


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: basques; catalonia; ciutadans; convergenciaiunion; esquerrarepublicana; europe; europeanunion; icv; nato; partidopopular; psc; separatism; spain

1 posted on 02/01/2013 8:41:47 AM PST by JerseyanExile
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To: JerseyanExile

I’d be worried more about California secession.

Hispanics now are the largest group in California. When they also become the largest voting block, they will no longer need the Democrat party. They will set up their own and use the tools of democracy to take over the state.

Then it will be secession and the creation of Azltan, the newest state of Mexico.


2 posted on 02/01/2013 8:49:43 AM PST by oldbill
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To: oldbill

Secession movements are on the move, this won’t be the last.


3 posted on 02/01/2013 8:51:58 AM PST by foundedonpurpose (It's time for a fundamental restoration, of our country's principles!)
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To: oldbill
I’d be worried more about California secession.

Worried that it will or won't happen?

Don't worry, JimRob. We'll dig a tunnel to sneak you and your family into Arizona.

4 posted on 02/01/2013 8:54:09 AM PST by KarlInOhio (Choose one: the yellow and black flag of the Tea Party or the white flag of the Republican Party.)
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To: oldbill

Hey, then we won’t have to pay all of the bills that Obama is racking up!


5 posted on 02/01/2013 8:55:00 AM PST by wizr (We are "one Nation, under God " or "one nation, trod under ". Your choice.)
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To: wizr

If California became a part of Mexico all the mexicans would leave it and move to Nevada.


6 posted on 02/01/2013 8:59:32 AM PST by Captain PJ (Are we there yet?)
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To: foundedonpurpose

yeah, seriously.

I was told on FR that secession in these modern times would never happen, especially in the US.


7 posted on 02/01/2013 9:01:03 AM PST by AlmaKing
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To: Captain PJ

It's funny because it's true.


8 posted on 02/01/2013 9:01:23 AM PST by KC_Lion (Build the America you want to live in at your address, and keep looking up.-Sarah Palin)
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To: JerseyanExile

I hope this posting hangs around a bit so that FR’s with some knowledge of Spains internals can post some background on this. Maps Flangs captiols etc.


9 posted on 02/01/2013 9:02:42 AM PST by mosesdapoet (.Should this former Chicago "Mechanic" go out of retirement ?)
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To: AlmaKing
The only people in the USA who are NOT allowed to discuss secession are the people of the South. /sarc
10 posted on 02/01/2013 9:05:39 AM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: JerseyanExile
Nonsense, this is. So-called “independence” from Spain will certainly not mean independence from the European Union. The appointed “president” of the EU, Herman van Rompuy, has already declared separatism (as he calls it) to be “a word of the past”.
11 posted on 02/01/2013 9:08:15 AM PST by Olog-hai
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To: JerseyanExile
“Sovereignty implies, literally, that there is nothing that ranks higher than the democratic will of the people,” Junqueras said. In response to the Socialists’ proposal for shared sovereignty with Spain, Junqueras noted: “The right to decide cannot be shared with another legal entity. The right to decide is a matter of one, not two or three.”

A lot of misguided Freepers could lean a lot from these words....Lincoln Coven take note.

12 posted on 02/01/2013 9:14:03 AM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: JerseyanExile

Catalonia is Spanish for “Quebec.”


13 posted on 02/01/2013 9:15:07 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: mosesdapoet
Flangs captiols

That Catalan is a strange language.;-)

14 posted on 02/01/2013 9:20:33 AM PST by RoosterRedux (Get armed, practice in the use of your weapons, get physically fit, stay alert!)
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To: JerseyanExile

“When in the course of human events...”


15 posted on 02/01/2013 9:21:08 AM PST by jagusafr (the American Trinity (Liberty, In G0D We Trust, E Pluribus Unum))
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To: oldbill

Lots o luck. Like California, Catalonia has the highest level of debt in the country. They’re just annoyed because the rest of Spain won’t pay for their years of insane social programs and separatist hype.

And they also have a huge number of Muslims, so if they do somehow manage to separate, they’ll probably end up Islamic in no time at all.


16 posted on 02/01/2013 9:24:31 AM PST by livius
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To: mosesdapoet

It would be most unfair, in that the Spanish government has heavily invested in Catalonia at least since the Spanish Civil War. I understand they were unhappy when the Franco government outlawed their language. But now all of that is history, and Catalonia is a wealthy region thanks to Madrid, at the expense of other provinces who just “paid the bill”. Same goes with the Basque Country. If they really want to be independent, they should repay what the Spanish government invested in them, with interest. Then they can go their merry way, if they so wish!


17 posted on 02/01/2013 9:33:54 AM PST by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
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To: JerseyanExile

Witness the end result of the Welfare State. Once the state can no longer beg, borrow or tax to pay for its unsustainable benefits, the constituent parts of the state try to break off to avoid the liabilities built up by the Welfare State. No one wants to pay for the mess created by the Welfare State — its just gimme gimme gimme and then make someone else pay for it, or simply don’t pay for it.


18 posted on 02/01/2013 9:34:08 AM PST by Opinionated Blowhard ("When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.")
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To: mosesdapoet
I don't know how to make a picture, but it's Northeast Spain, bordering France and the Mediterranean.

Employment is very tough there, folks that have jobs are extremely grateful.

My company has a manufacturing plant there. Beautiful country.

19 posted on 02/01/2013 9:37:11 AM PST by onona (KCCO, and mind the gap)
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To: RoosterRedux

In the News/Activism forum, on a thread titled Spanish secessionism makes first move: Catalonia is “a sovereign political and legal entity”, RoosterRedux wrote:
Flangs captiols
That Catalan is a strange language.;-)

I’m asking for FR’s with some knowledge of Spain for a knowledgeable imput and the best you can come up with are some misspellings in the request.


20 posted on 02/01/2013 9:38:16 AM PST by mosesdapoet (.Should this former Chicago "Mechanic" go out of retirement ?)
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To: mosesdapoet

Capital: Barcelona


21 posted on 02/01/2013 9:40:33 AM PST by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
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To: oldbill

“I’d be worried more about California secession.”

Why are you worried about it?
(That’s a question posed seriously)

Consider:
Let’s presume for a moment that California DID secede from the other 49 states that make up The United States.

After that;
- Would the US become a more left-leaning nation, or would it actually be more conservative?
- Would the Congress of the US become more left-leaning, or would it be more conservative?
- Would the Republican party have less or a chance, or more of a chance, of winning future presidential contests?
- Would the illegal proportion of the nation’s population be greater, or less?

It’s the famous “Ann Landers question”….

Aside: if you actually _reside_ in California, I could understand how it might not be such a good thing for yourself, personally. But as someone who doesn’t live there and won’t set foot there again, I say that if CA wants to “go”, by all means, go...


22 posted on 02/01/2013 9:44:42 AM PST by Road Glide
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To: mosesdapoet
You can still walk along the Ramblas in Barcelona and see the rifle ports cut into the old buildings. The remains of the Spanish Civil War still lingers.

You have to realize that Madrid was originally laid out right in the middle of nowhere. When the war between Castille and Aragon was finally settled, Madrid was laid out out semi-midpoint..to prevent future strife.

23 posted on 02/01/2013 9:52:16 AM PST by ken5050 ("One useless man is a shame, two are a law firm, three or more are a Congress".. John Adams)
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To: oldbill

Feds won’t let conservatives secede so i don’t think they’ll give mexicans the go ahead to run off with their tax dollars either.


24 posted on 02/01/2013 10:14:24 AM PST by wiggen (The teacher card. When the racism card just won't work.)
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To: oldbill
I would be willing to let Mexico have California if we could allow Americans to have their own country, encompassing the south, Texas north to Canada. The marxists can have Obamistan, the northeast and across to Minnesota and Michigan. Ohio and Illinois would have to be split in half.

After a few decades, we'd have it all back anyway.

25 posted on 02/01/2013 10:22:22 AM PST by Defiant (If there are infinite parallel universes, why Lord, am I living in the one with Obama as President?)
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To: Road Glide

- Would the US become a more left-leaning nation, or would it actually be more conservative?

More Conservative.

- Would the Congress of the US become more left-leaning, or would it be more conservative?

More Conservative. In the House, that would reduce the Democrat caucus by a whopping 38 seats (the GOP would lose only 15). Going from 234R/201D to 219R/173D. It would increase the overall GOP majority from under 54% to about 56% and reduce the Dems to 44%. In the Senate, it would put us 2 seats closer to the majority (45R/53D-aligned).

- Would the Republican party have less or a chance, or more of a chance, of winning future presidential contests?

Removing 55 EVs from the equation would be a substantial blow to the Democrats. That’s 1/6th of Zero’s Electoral College “victory.”

- Would the illegal proportion of the nation’s population be greater, or less?

Minus CA, less. Countless millions alone in the state.


26 posted on 02/01/2013 10:54:46 AM PST by fieldmarshaldj (Resist We Much)
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To: AlmaKing

As things get worse, watch out. Good or bad I don’t see the US staying together long term with out a brutal dictatorship. There are to many violations of beliefs that keep getting forced down peoples throats.

The Fabians have accelerated their plan.


27 posted on 02/01/2013 12:58:41 PM PST by foundedonpurpose (It's time for a fundamental restoration, of our country's principles!)
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To: livius

“Like California, Catalonia has the highest level of debt in the country.”


Yeh but is has one of the most beautiful cities in Europe and the best futbol club in the world.

.


28 posted on 02/01/2013 1:03:50 PM PST by Mears
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To: fieldmarshaldj

You’re forgetting - the number of congressional seats is fixed. The seats vacated by California would be redistributed to other states.


29 posted on 02/01/2013 1:06:21 PM PST by JerseyanExile
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To: JerseyanExile

You’re correct, though I was answering a “what if” with California’s immediate secession.


30 posted on 02/01/2013 1:08:47 PM PST by fieldmarshaldj (Resist We Much)
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