Posted on 02/01/2013 10:56:33 AM PST by Perseverando
Last year, it was reported that the Department of Homeland Security had purchased 1.6 billion rounds of hollow point ammunition of various calibers for reasons that the agency refuses to reveal. On Wednesday, the DHS announced that it would acquire another 200,000 rounds from a company known as Evian Group, Inc.
The DHS put out a solicitation for the purchase on the FedBizOps.gov Web site on Dec. 17 for the agency’s Federal Law Enforcement Training Center, requesting .40 caliber hollow point rounds, Federal Ammunition of 1,000 rounds in 200 cases.
Not only is the reason for the agency’s stockpiling of nearly 2 billion rounds of ammo shrouded in mystery, but so too is the Evian Group. James Smith of Prepper Podcast did an investigation into the company and found some odd facts which he reported in an article on Thursday.
For one, “It seems that the Evian Group was formed on December 12, 2012, just 5 days before the announcement of the solicitation,” writes Smith.
The price that the agency paid for the rounds is suspect too, according to Smith.
“The contract for 200,000 rounds was $45,758, which boils down to about $0.21 per round. And to be quiet (sic) honest, that (is) a really good price. As in, unheard of good price.”
After comparing the prices for the rounds from Evian and other companies on two different Web sites, Smith found “that the price was less than half of what the other guys are charging.”
Also suspicious is the company’s address of 105 South Eastern Ave, Las Vegas, Nev. After searching Google Maps, Smith found that the building at the listed address doesn’t appear to be the kind of place that could produce that much ammunition and then
(Excerpt) Read more at examiner.com ...
I can't imagine this article has languished since January 4th without someone posting it on FR for discussion.
Anyway, I would appreciate any input on this story. I could not spot any previous articles on FR referencing information in this article.
Also if you have time and feel like doing some internet research, there seems to be some very "mysterious goings on" regarding everything about this contract, Evian Group, its officers, etc., etc., etc.
My question is what contingency plan is driving these purchases? The number of rounds being purchased is driven by some anticipated need that leads to a bureaucratic decision.
see also:
August 28, 2012
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History of DHS Ammunition Purchases
By James Smith
August 28, 2012. This article is to outline purchases by the Department of Human resources since August 2002, a ten year span...
link:
http://www.whiteoutpress.com/articles/q32012/history-of-dhs-ammunition-purchases517/
I’ll bet the author screwed up and “DHS” is really Department of Homeland Security” (aka, the Interior Ministry) instead of Human resources.
Evain backwords is naive. Hmmm??????
Must have: Ammo, toilet paper.
No, look again. It’s “niave.”
LOTS of toilet paper. And paper towels.
Also, that’s not a hollow point in the image.
“These aren’t the droids you’re looking for...”
Ping.
The article is a little confusing. It states Federal Ammo and then talks about this Evian outfit possibly being the manufacturer. Must be some sort of a shell corporation.
21 cents a round for 40 cal. hollow point ammo does not sound like a legit price.
This keeps coming up, I will try to put it to rest. Just one example: the Border Patrol has over 21,000 agents. Each agent is required to qualify each quarter with their duty carry firearm. The qualification course is 72 rounds. In addition each agent is given 150 rounds of practice ammo each quarter.
That is just the BP there is also CBP officers, ICE, protective service and a hole host of others.
It sounds like a lot of ammo but they burn through it quickly. Next year they will put out an RFP for more just like every year. This really is a non issue.
Yep, noticed that too. There’s a lot of information left out or unclear in this month old article.
For example, how come no one has found any new pertinent information on this contract? No updates? Now that’s suspicious.
Note the contract is only for 200K, not 200 million or some other massive amount. But it is a nice little contract to help “spread the wealth around.”
They’re just making sure they have enough ammo to supply their buyers in Operation Fast and Furious.
To me, it’s not the amount, it’s the company they are purchasing it from. Formed in December 2012??? And now they can supply this much ammo? And Las Vegas? Tin foil time.
Sneaky govt. Stealth hollow points disguised as fmjfn. Thank goodness it isn’t one of those evil “high power” .223’s used in “black” machineguns huh?
Molon labe.
A LEO recently told me that hollow points are not used in target practice because they are way too expensive for that.
Why did the DHS purchase 1.8 billion rounds of .40 cal hollow point rounds?
If everyone would ask their rep this question it would at least let them know that we know and that we expect answers.
Why aren’t our loyal conservative radio talk show hosts harping on this issue every day until this is addressed by investigative committees and highlighted in the news? If the radio conservatives are too scared to mention it on the air then we are screwed.
Don’t wait for the investigative journalists to say anything about it. They get paid by the same fabian communist globalists cadre who ordered the purchase of these rounds.
Correction: 1.6 billion + 200 thousand.
They are not for target practice for the reason I stated above.
“Hollow-Point”ammunition is banned by The Geneva Conventions for use against ENEMY combatants,but I guess they are alright to use against Law-Abiding Americans who just might want to take their country back?????????????????????
(Sorry, I couldn't resist including this pic after seeing your comment.)
That works out to 3 rds reserved for each U.S. citizen. Some margin for misses and extras if one in the head doesn't get the job done.
We can only wonder if this company is owned by yet another of Obongo’s”Bundlers”?????????????????
It’s more like 17-cents per-round.You can”roll your own”for about 7-cents.
Are you illnumerate? A billion is not a dozen more than a million. It is one thousand million.
The example you cited works out to 12.6 million rounds a year. Keep going and working through all the federal employees who must qualify each year. Let us see how many rounds that works out to. I’ll wager that it is not even a fraction of a billion.
One source lists the number of armed DHS emploees at pproximately 162,364. If they must qualify, that’s 100 million rounds a year. We have a 20 year supply at that rate, so what other consumers are there and about how much do they use?
see:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_armed_agents_does_the_department_of_homeland_security_have
I think these ammo purchases by the Feds....in all agencies....are raising alarm
And, since the GOP is going along with Open Borders and Illegal Alien Amnesty.....the DHS does not need as many rounds as before.
The list, Ping
Let me know if you would like to be on or off the ping list
The list, Ping
Let me know if you would like to be on or off the ping list
“21 cents a round for 40 cal. hollow point ammo does not sound like a legit price.”
Actually, it is. I can produce it for $0.32 cents a round at near retail prices for FMJ 40 cal. I know what the wholesale prices are for the components and it is $0.18 cents a round, so they are producing that ammo for nearly cost.
Also, at just 200,000 total rounds, which is a small order, that would just be a test run. If the ammo is good I suspect there will be a very large order given later.
I recall reading an article here on a gov ammo purchase through the fake Evian company. I’m guessing this is the same purchase. Something’s not on the up and up. At first, I assumed hussein was either furnishing these to his special civil army or to our enemies. After the questions surrounding Sandy Hook and his push for gun control causing even more shortage above his gov purchases, well, it’s all connected. Long live the 2nd!
Primers alone are 3 cents each now. You can’t reload hard cast lead in 40 cal for 7 cents. 40 cal, 180 gr JHP’s are gonna run you 20 cents for just the bullet alone, not including powder and primers.
Nothing to see here. Move along.
Math is a cruel mistress.
21000*(72+150)*4=18.6 million. Still not a billion. You were only off by 50%.
One source lists the number of armed DHS emploees at pproximately 162,364. If they must qualify, that’s 100 million rounds a yea
162,364*(72+150)*4= 144.1 million.
Of course, if you assume that the "150 practice rounds" is per year, not per quarter, the math works out different:
21000*(72*4+150)=9.2 million
162,364*(72*4+150)=71.1 million
How do we know they have 1.6 billion rounds? And if they did, isn't 200,000 rounds really in the noise here?
I've done a bit of research, from the web sites that make this claim. Occasionally they point to real documentation; but in some cases those are redacted, and have no numbers.
In another case, you find that the 450 million bullet order was over 5 years. That's less than 100 million a year, well within the range we just calculated for their need.
And it's a "maximum order", meaning that the actual procurement will be less -- this type of order merely ensures that the seller has the ability to meet the contract.
And it is both DHS and ICE. So it's more agents than we looked at.
In 2009, they awarded a contract for 200 million over 5 years. I can't find any info on how much they actually purchased.
Without going back over a 20-year history of bullet purchases by all government law enforcement agencies, I don't see how we can evaluate the current status and say it is different.
One thing that has changed is that DHS is doing a lot of drills with local and state LEO, and apparently as part of Obama's "feed our tax dollars to his buddies in liberal states" initiative, the feds have been supplying all the bullets.
The thing is, when you use ammo for practice and training you don’t use hallow point ammo. You use cheap ball ammo so you don’t waste money.
Hallow point is better as a defensive round than it is as a practice round. Yes it is wise to run some through your gun to make sure it feeds reliably but not to shoot as practice ammo.
Just saying.
“It sounds like a lot of ammo but they burn through it quickly”
This stuff is not for practice. DHS is ordering +P critical defense rounds. These are frangible rounds and not used for practice. They are not burning through it on the practice range. Its enough ammo to shoot every American at least 6 times.
Critical defense ammo is pretty much to kill people. Its too expensive to practice with, its hard on the weapon, its bad for the backstops on the ranges and it will give you a helluva flinch.
DHS is not telling anybody that they are using it for practice. They are not telling you anything. Be concerned.
LOL. I mean Hollow point, not hallow. My bullets are holy.
Actually, most police departments use hollow-points. They are less likely to ricochet, and less likely to over-penetrate. These are the same reasons most people use them for self-defense.
Has anybody ever considered that they are buying imaginary ammo with a paper trail indicating it was all used up on the range?
That’s a lot of money moving around with the opportunity for some kickback.
My observation is that it was said these are ‘hollow points’. Not your typical range ammunition. What is the stockpiling for then? Curious.
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Article, then # 17 , # 29 .
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That’s why we’ll need to take a few alive.
Not true. Please get your facts straight before posting on this forum.
The Hague Conventions addresses the types of weapons that can be used in civilized warfare, among other things.
The Geneva Conventions address how prisoners of war are to be treated, among other things. Neither convention address the types of weapons that can be used against terrorists.
It is. Was set up to get around the "Small Business Set Aside" requirement of the contract. They are a "Provider" not a "Manufacturer". This is one of the games played in the federal government acquisition process. Some contracts are set aside for woman or minority owned businesses.
Doesn't cover "terrorists" anyway, which is what we are in our govt's eyes.
The price that the agency paid for the rounds is suspect too, according to Smith.
“The contract for 200,000 rounds was $45,758, which boils down to about $0.21 per round. And to be quiet (sic) honest, that (is) a really good price. As in, unheard of good price.”
When I investigated the contracts they were for a small quantity with an OPTION for a larger purchase. My view was that this was a way to reduce availability at their discretion.
Is it possible that the contract was bid low for the initial purchase but at a higher price for optional purchases.
This is exactly the exercise I was hoping someone would work through so we could get some perspective on the scope of ammo usage. But it remains a bit of a curiosity that nobody fairly far up in DHS hasn’t issued some type of internal document of the policy narrative. They sure are opaque for being the most transparent of any regime in history.
Had I had the picture I would have posted it. LOL!
“This really is a non issue.”
Thanks for putting it into the proper perspective. However, this won’t stop some FR sheep from stampeding over the cliff, insisting that the forecasters at the National Weather Service will be shooting cop-killer bullets out their arses and making kills at 500 yards.
We all feel something is happening. Things don’t add up. Remember last year when the the Social Security Administration bought millions and millions of bullets? More than their security guards could use in a few hundred years.
And flies in the White House? Do you know how flies are ‘grown? They ‘bloom’ in rotting flesh...
No worries they’re all for the Mexican border. More lies amd hopes and dreams to come. Now who are they really for?
“A LEO recently told me that hollow points are not used in target practice because they are way too expensive for that.
Why did the DHS purchase 1.8 billion rounds of .40 cal hollow point rounds?”
That is EXACTLY the problem I have with these stories.
Yes, I understand the target practice and qualifying needs.
But hollow point?
My gut tells me that this is more disinfo to piss us off and make us look silly.
(Although I am prepared for otherwise ;-)
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