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Dorner had history of complaints against fellow LAPD officers
Los ngeles Times ^ | February 9, 2013 | LAT

Posted on 02/09/2013 6:36:16 AM PST by Brandonmark

The fugitive ex-policeman Christopher Dorner, suspected of killing three people and injuring two, had a history of making complaints against fellow officers within the Los Angeles Police Department, and one officer said he had a reputation as a "hot head," according to internal affairs records.

Dorner was accused of punching a recruit in the chest while he was in the Police Academy in 2006. That recruit, Abraham Schefres, was wearing a bulletproof vest and a trauma plate, when Dorner allegedly punched him. After being hit, he glared at Dorner, whom Schefres said responded as though he had made a mistake, records show. Schefres said he believed that Dorner had not been trying to hurt him but that the punch was "more of a 'hello'" and to appear tough.

Schefres told an investigator that he "believed this was part of Dorner’s persona," records show. Schefres described Dorner as "a hot head" who would walk up to fellow recruits and "get in their faces in an aggressive" but joking way.

(Excerpt) Read more at latimesblogs.latimes.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: banglist; california; christopherdorner; dorner; lapd
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1 posted on 02/09/2013 6:36:22 AM PST by Brandonmark
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To: Brandonmark

Gee. What a surprise! A disgruntled 0bamabot. Whodda thunk it? ;)


2 posted on 02/09/2013 6:41:57 AM PST by Diana in Wisconsin (I don't have 'Hobbies.' I'm developing a robust Post-Apocalyptic skill set...)
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To: Diana in Wisconsin

And developing mental illness as well...


3 posted on 02/09/2013 6:44:13 AM PST by KC_Conspirator
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To: Brandonmark

He attacked other recruits at the police academy and made false accusations there. Sounds like an ahole from the start. How did this guy get on the force? Affirmative action hire?


4 posted on 02/09/2013 6:44:47 AM PST by Former Proud Canadian (Obamanomics-We don't need your stinking tar sands oil, we'll just grow algae.)
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To: Brandonmark
Ya can't trust ANYTHING from the LA Slimes.

The more important story about cops is the at least, four cops who opened fire without warning or cause, on three innocent uninvolved citizens going about legitimate activities.

5 posted on 02/09/2013 6:45:02 AM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Brandonmark

Just a lovable hothead who acted aggressive, hit people and got in their faces in a “joking” way. Obviously misunderstood and taking the natural course of action just like muzzies do when they defend their pitiful god.


6 posted on 02/09/2013 6:46:03 AM PST by trebb (Allies no longer trust us. Enemies no longer fear us.)
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To: Former Proud Canadian

>>How did this guy get on the force? Affirmative action hire?

Tradition?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafael_P%C3%A9rez_%28police_officer%29


7 posted on 02/09/2013 6:47:19 AM PST by TArcher
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To: Brandonmark

The posts following this article are chilling - another glimpse at the Low Information Voters’ thinking. Oh, he’s a hero? He dared to speak the Truth? uck!


8 posted on 02/09/2013 6:47:40 AM PST by bboop (does not suffer fools gladly)
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To: Diana in Wisconsin

He sounds like your typical Affirmative action employee to me.

The ones I worked with spent most of their time complaining and whining.

As opposed to those blacks who got appointed and promoted because they quialified.


9 posted on 02/09/2013 6:52:23 AM PST by Venturer
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To: Brandonmark

I have read this mans “manifesto”. He did not sound crazy, but revengeful.

Actually, it read more like a hollyweird script (I’m sure once he is shot dead, they WILL make a movie about it).

Anywho, after reading it, and he stated many details of who and what to investigate, in order to get his name back, in good standing.

He cited racism; however, he cited it against EVERY group, including the black higher ups who abuse their power against their white “underlings”, which just perpetuates the existing racism.

He cites the orientals for NOT doing anything “because they don’t want trouble”.

I don’t see crazy here. The only thing that was troublesome to me is that he is not a believer. I did not like what he said about God and the Bible. He stated “I’m not an effin Christian”.

That’s too bad. If he was, perhaps he would not be seeking his revenge in such a murderous way.

However......see my tagline.


10 posted on 02/09/2013 6:56:08 AM PST by NoGrayZone (For evil to triumph it is only necessary for good men to do nothing.)
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To: Navy Patriot
"The more important story about cops is the at least, four cops who opened fire without warning or cause, on three innocent uninvolved citizens going about legitimate activities. "

Yes, the dude may be a bad guy, but the folks still on the force are certainly trying to prove otherwise by their acts.

Given what has happened thus far, perhaps his complaints were justified.

11 posted on 02/09/2013 6:56:59 AM PST by PAR35
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To: Venturer

Re: Afirmative Action hire - me, too!


12 posted on 02/09/2013 7:03:32 AM PST by Diana in Wisconsin (I don't have 'Hobbies.' I'm developing a robust Post-Apocalyptic skill set...)
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To: Navy Patriot

“on three innocent uninvolved citizens going about legitimate activities.”
You left out the part where they where in a different brand of vehicle, and also was BLUE versus silver.
Looking for a Nissan, see a Toyota. Blam, blam, blam, shoot them up! Both trucks are Japanese based companies, maybe that made it ok in the eyes of the enforcers.


13 posted on 02/09/2013 7:04:22 AM PST by 9422WMR
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To: Brandonmark
Dorner was a professional victim. He learned this from the NAACP and his peers. We have a country full of them.
14 posted on 02/09/2013 7:06:42 AM PST by vetvetdoug
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To: Diana in Wisconsin

history of making complaints against fellow officers
***********
Yep, your’re right, another Obamabot with a chip on their shoulder.


15 posted on 02/09/2013 7:09:41 AM PST by Starboard
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To: Brandonmark

Hmmmmmm . Let’s see. Now we get the drip drip drip....hot head, aggressive, doesn’t play well with others...

You know what I’d like to see and hear? The officer that kicked the civilian that got this whole thing going.

This guy was wound tight and probably was at least minimally functional in a structured environment. Then he gets put in the LAPD and probably expects order and discipline...but instead gets the morally flexible LAPD with the US v. them and all the little scams and office politics that the union police force has.

I’m thinking if a police force is so f’ing incompetent and poorly disciplined to almost kill three civilians in 2 different trucks , I can’t even imagine the level of rot we’d find if we kicked over the rock that is the LAPD.

I always thought that LEOs would mistakenly kill a relative of a special operator and this would happen. Turns out all they did was piss off a marginally trained head case and just look at how absolutely pathetic and powerless the balaclava-clad wannabes look like chasing their tails and shooting up the civilian population.

This is only ONE GUY. I couldn’t even imagine the carnage that a single fire team would wreak upon the police. He could have put trip wires with flares, grenades, and claymores to funnel the invetagators into an area with a really big IED then set that one off.

This guy is really dangerous and I really feel sorry for all the civilians the LAPD are going to shoot and maim trying to kill him.


16 posted on 02/09/2013 7:11:02 AM PST by Dick Vomer (democrats are like flies, whatever they don't eat they sh#t on.)
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To: vetvetdoug

I think we have a person with a severe persecutionn complex. Everyone in authority is against them from the get go. They spend most of the waking hours seeking out evidence to support their mania. A number outweighing their porportion of the population unfortunately end up in some type of police or security work.


17 posted on 02/09/2013 7:13:37 AM PST by Mouton (108th MI Group.....68-71)
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To: Venturer

The ones I worked with spent most of their time complaining and whining.
*********
And incessantly demanding endless training. I always wonder why you hire people for a job who constantly need training. There’s something wrong with that picture. At some point you’ve got to be a little resourceful and find a way to learn on the job.


18 posted on 02/09/2013 7:14:43 AM PST by Starboard
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To: vetvetdoug

Dorner was a professional victim. He learned this from the NAACP and his peers. We have a country full of them.
**********
That is a fact. Ther’s little interest in “some quarters” in becoming productive citizens but an obsession with learning the “skills and techniques” needed to become a professional victim. Its almost treated as a respected profession.


19 posted on 02/09/2013 7:21:52 AM PST by Starboard
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To: Brandonmark
He saw a lesbian feminazi lady cop kick a restrained schizophrenic man and reported her. The story was corroborated.

For crossing the blue line of silence, he was fired, the feminazi thug got promoted and he got mad. Real mad.

Now the cops are showing us all how wrong he was and how professional they are.

20 posted on 02/09/2013 7:27:51 AM PST by Bon mots (Abu Ghraib: 47 Times on the front page of the NY Times | Benghazi: 2 Times)
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To: Dick Vomer

“You know what I’d like to see and hear? The officer that kicked the civilian that got this whole thing going.”

As well as the guy who was supposedly kicked while handcuffed and his father.

Freegards


21 posted on 02/09/2013 7:31:17 AM PST by Ransomed
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To: PAR35
Given what has happened thus far, perhaps his complaints were justified.

Yes. I suspect that, while his actions are wrong, the LAPD brought it on themselves.

22 posted on 02/09/2013 7:31:55 AM PST by A_perfect_lady
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To: Brandonmark

It seems to me that he was brainwashed by MSNBC.


23 posted on 02/09/2013 7:38:48 AM PST by chopperman
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To: Brandonmark
A martyr like Dorner is the logical result when you have a system run by conservative white men. /sarc
24 posted on 02/09/2013 7:39:46 AM PST by beef (Who Killed Kennewick Man?)
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To: Brandonmark

LA Times

How about some facts about the paper women who got shot up?? Good thing there wasn’t some civilian gun nuts around firing at will, instead we have well-trained police officers! Obviously they are better decision makers when it comes to handling firearms.


25 posted on 02/09/2013 7:41:15 AM PST by nobamanomore
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To: Diana in Wisconsin

Yeah, Dorner loves Obama, according to Dorner’s Facebook page — now offline. Amazing it’s not widely reported!


26 posted on 02/09/2013 7:41:15 AM PST by qwertyz
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To: Brandonmark

An aggressive yet joking way? What the heck is that?


27 posted on 02/09/2013 7:49:11 AM PST by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
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Court documents show an ex-girlfriend of Christopher Dorner called him “severely emotionally and mentally disturbed” after the two split.

In the posting, Ariana Williams calls Dorner “twisted” and “super paranoid” and warns other women on the website called Dontdatehimgirl.com , not to date him.

Christopher Dorner unsuccessfully requested a restraining order in 2006 after he claimed she posted his badge number on a website called Dontdatehimgirl.com and harassed him. He was denied.

In April 2007, Dorner married a Los Angeles deputy sheriff. The certificate was issued in Clark County, Nevada. But after 19 days, they submitted a joint petition for dissolution.

A year later, Dorner became involved with a fellow LAPD officer, according to a protective order application he filed in 2012.

Dorner alleged that after he broke off the relationship, he learned the woman attempted to access his credit union account online. The issue came up again in the online manifesto Dorner published on his Facebook page, airing his grievances against LAPD.

“You allow an officer to attempt to hack into my credit union account and remain on the job,” Dorner wrote in the 11,000-word document.

In seeking the protective order, Dorner stated he was “in fear for my life” because she boasted of her ability to kill, and told him she has “nothing to lose.”

It was a phrase that Dorner later used to describe himself – “I have nothing to lose” – in the manifesto as he laid out his mission to apparently seek revenge over the department. He was fired from the LAPD in 2008, after reporting another officer for alleged brutality – an accusation that investigators later said was false.

With the manhunt for Dorner still unresolved, none of the women could be reached for comment.


28 posted on 02/09/2013 7:52:15 AM PST by snowstorm12
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To: NoGrayZone
"I’m sure once he is shot dead, they WILL make a movie about it"

And when Dorner's story is made into a movie, how much you want to bet the scriptwriters turn him into an angry white cop?

29 posted on 02/09/2013 7:56:42 AM PST by ZirconEncrustedTweezers (Taking away guns will do nothing to stop violence.)
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To: Bon mots
Now the cops are showing us all how wrong he was and how professional they are.

yep. I'll bet the lesbian cop is on paid admin leave.

30 posted on 02/09/2013 8:01:49 AM PST by Dick Vomer (democrats are like flies, whatever they don't eat they sh#t on.)
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To: ZirconEncrustedTweezers
No, I think they will keep him black....and really exploit the racism he faced.

Of course, they will leave out the following...

"Those Caucasian officers who join South Bureau divisions (77th,SW,SE, an Harbor) with the sole intent to victimize minorities who are uneducated, and unaware of criminal law, civil law, and civil rights. You prefer the South bureau because a use of force/deadly force is likely and the individual you use UOF on will likely not report it. You are a high value target."

"Those Black officers in supervisory ranks and pay grades who stay in south bureau (even though you live in the valley or OC) for the sole intent of getting retribution toward subordinate caucasians officers for the pain and hostile work environment their elders inflicted on you as probationers (P-1′s) and novice P-2’s. You are a high value target. You perpetuated the cycle of racism in the department as well. You breed a new generation of bigoted caucasian officer when you belittle them and treat them unfairly."

"Those Hispanic officers who victimize their own ethnicity because they are new immigrants to this country and are unaware of their civil rights. You call them wetbacks to their face and demean them in front of fellow officers of different ethnicities so that you will receive some sort of acceptance from your colleagues. I’m not impressed. Most likely, your parents or grandparents were immigrants at one time, but you have forgotten that. You are a high value target."

"Those lesbian officers in supervising positions who go to work, day in day out, with the sole intent of attempting to prove your misandrist authority (not feminism) to degrade male officers. You are a high value target."

"Those Asian officers who stand by and observe everything I previously mentioned other officers participate in on a daily basis but you say nothing, stand for nothing and protect nothing. Why? Because of your usual saying, ” I……don’t like conflict”. You are a high value target as well."

"Those of you who “go along to get along” have no backbone and destroy the foundation of courage. You are the enablers of those who are guilty of misconduct. You are just as guilty as those who break the code of ethics and oath you swore."

"It is endless the amount of times per week officers arrest an individual, label him a suspect-arrestee-defendant and then before arraignment or trial realize that he is innocent based on evidence. You know what they say when they realize an innocent man just had his life turned upside down?. “I guess he should have stayed at home that day he was discovered walking down the street and matching the suspects description. Oh well, he appeared to be a dirtbag anyways”. Meanwhile the falsely accused is left to pick up his life, get a new, family, friends, and sense of self worth."

"You allow an officer, XXXXXX, to attempt to hack into my credit union account and still remain on the job even when Det. XXXXX shows the evidence that the IP address (provided by LAPFCU) that attempted to hack into my account and change my username and password leads directly to her residence. You even allow this visibly disgusting looking officer to stay on the job when she perjures (lies) in court (Clark County Family Court) to the judge’s face and denies hacking into my personal credit union online account when I attempted to get my restraint order extended. Det. XXXX provided the evidence and you still do nothing."

I'd be pretty pissed too.

31 posted on 02/09/2013 8:16:23 AM PST by NoGrayZone (For evil to triumph it is only necessary for good men to do nothing.)
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To: NoGrayZone

I read the manifesto and anyone in their thirties who obsesses publicly about a fight they had with someone in first grade is a straight-out kook.


32 posted on 02/09/2013 8:28:21 AM PST by vbmoneyspender
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To: vbmoneyspender
A manifesto, to me, will indicate an injustice perceived, even from a young age. He was telling his story as to why it has come to this point.

This man is not a kook. He has already exposed the LAPD for the unprofessional law enforcement they really are.

Shooting at 2 women delivering newspapers with how many rounds? All those shots and those 2 ladies are still alive?

No, not a kook. I think he is doing all this to show the world who the LAPD really is.....and is doing one heck of a job.

And his manifesto was not rambling, it was quite coherent.

33 posted on 02/09/2013 8:37:44 AM PST by NoGrayZone (For evil to triumph it is only necessary for good men to do nothing.)
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To: A_perfect_lady; PAR35

I concur with the both of you. This man is not a kook, as some state he is.

Perhaps he is just, well, see my tagline.

Seemed he tried to fight while still employed w/ the PD...and lost terribly. Looks like they stripped him of his good name, just from all the info I have read thus far.

The fact he complained when his partner abused a mentally ill “perp”, after he was in cuffs. He knew that was wrong and tried to rectify it.

He got screwed instead.


34 posted on 02/09/2013 8:46:54 AM PST by NoGrayZone (For evil to triumph it is only necessary for good men to do nothing.)
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To: NoGrayZone
The other cops are proving him right by showing how 'professional' they are.

So far, three innocent people in two different pickup trucks have been shot up.
Neither pickup matched the description of the perp's.


35 posted on 02/09/2013 8:51:20 AM PST by Bon mots (Abu Ghraib: 47 Times on the front page of the NY Times | Benghazi: 2 Times)
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To: Mouton

I’m thinking something along those lines, too, like Paranoid Personality Disorder. And I also wonder if he saw “Django Unchained.”


36 posted on 02/09/2013 8:56:02 AM PST by RedWhiteBlue (Mama tried)
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To: NoGrayZone

The more things change, the more people stay the same.

I don’t know of anybody who hasn’t experienced unrighteousness nor injustice.

How we respond to such adversity discerns the virtuous from the corrupt.

IMHO, the perspective presented in the manifesto indicates the author lacks virtue.

We don’t know if was only from a fired cop named Dorner or if the entire episode isn’t a communistic/socialist attempt to mold public perception.

Let’s accept it as his actions. If so, he was properly fired, because it isn’t his jurisdiction to act as victim, prosecutor, jury, judge, and executioner.

His manifesto is grossly unjust. In it he concludes he should have killed one of his peers for making racial remarks and not acquiescing to his will when challenged. That’s a simple violation of the 1st Amendment. Again, he had no business as a cop with that type of thinking.


37 posted on 02/09/2013 8:58:05 AM PST by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: NoGrayZone

If you want an interesting exercise, check the parts of the manifesto that were allegorical with a free grade level writing analyzer and then check the parts about the gun control rant in the same manifesto.

While the whole document is at around a 10th grade level. The parts mentioning the AR15 are written at a 6th grade level (the level at which politicians are told to write their speeches in order to appeal to the masses) and in a very different structure.

Kind of interesting...if I had a tinfoil hat, I might think they were written by different people.


38 posted on 02/09/2013 9:02:34 AM PST by willyd
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To: Bon mots

Exactly, and perhaps that is part of his plan.

And just how sucky are these “professionals”, with ALL those shots fired, and the ones they fired at are still alive?

Seems the only ones they can kill are the innocent family pets.


39 posted on 02/09/2013 9:03:43 AM PST by NoGrayZone (For evil to triumph it is only necessary for good men to do nothing.)
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To: NoGrayZone
“I have read this mans “manifesto”. He did not sound crazy, but revengeful.”

Thanks, NoGrayZone, I explained this over and over on here and got stomped by most who just wanted him to be a goof ball who was crazy. I, like you, had read the whole manifesto. He planned so well in detail that he has his thinking together.

Every person he has killed or wounded has been related to his reason for revenge. And, he hasn't been caught - he's not crazy, he is smart and crafty and knows police procedure and weapons and I would bet he has a police radio to hear them. I say that because the cop he killed and the one with him wounded, were on their way to the house of one on the death list to guard that family. Dorner took out the two guards before they got to the house of the one on the kill list. He had to have known that is where those two cops were going as he approached them, not them approaching him. He appeared out of nowhere at that corner and shot them before they knew what was happening. Dorner is not crazy - he is thinking rationally with every move to accomplish his purpose, which to him is rational.

40 posted on 02/09/2013 9:07:10 AM PST by Marcella (Prepping can save your life today. Going Galt is freedom.)
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To: NoGrayZone
This man is not a kook, as some state he is

Whenever I see a really crackpot post I assume that the author is a Birther. I'm not batting 1.000, but I am over .900:

Thanks to all the “birthers” out there who have done MUCH research on their own time and dime and passed it along to the rest of us and would NOT allow this lie to stand. 20 posted on 4/5/2011 4:06:17 PM by NoGrayZone

When you go out and start murdering the family members of guys who made you mad, and random folks who happen to work for the same employer, you are a kook, and a criminal. Even if the LAPD members he was feuding with did everything he claims, that just means that this was a dispute among criminals, and I'm not inclined to take this murderous Lefty's word that he was done wrong.

41 posted on 02/09/2013 9:14:03 AM PST by Pilsner
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To: Marcella

Getting stomped on is one of the “fun” things here on FR. =)

God forbid you try to be rational, no can do!

Another question I had is are they investigating ANY of his claims? Of course not. I’m sure he would be proven correct.

He named names, places, situations. What about the ex cop he dated and broke it off with. She then tried to hack into his account, had the proof it was her and yet denied him....once again.

Seems like his 1st “offense” was trying to rectify the abuse his partner inflicted on a mentally ill “perp”, whom was kicked twice in the stomach and once in the face, AFTER he was in cuffs.

In regards to the officers that were “ambushed”. They lay blame on him. Have you heard of any evidence that came out confirming it was indeed him? Perhaps I missed it.

Someone in another thread stated now that this story is all over the place, real criminals can use it to “take out the fuzz”, and of course the blame would be put squarely on him.


42 posted on 02/09/2013 9:21:34 AM PST by NoGrayZone (For evil to triumph it is only necessary for good men to do nothing.)
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To: PAR35
Yep, the MSM is now primarily misdirection and falsification, since they can no longer completely control the release of news. The new media will get it out so MSM needs the low information types looking at something else.
43 posted on 02/09/2013 9:24:07 AM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Pilsner

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me.

Yes, I used a child’s statement to match your childish comment.

And yes, I am a “birther”. What does that have to do with this thread?

“Thanks to all the “birthers” out there who have done MUCH research on their own time and dime and passed it along to the rest of us and would NOT allow this lie to stand. 20 posted on 4/5/2011 4:06:17 PM by NoGrayZone”

Giving props to fellow FReepers spending their own time and dime to FIND OUT AND EXPOSE THE TRUTH now makes me a kook?

LMAO!! Perhaps the LAPD can take some lessons from us “birthers” and SHINE LIGHT UPON THE TRUTH AND STOP PERPETUATING INJUSTICE.

I “talk” a lot here. I wonder how long it took you to find one of my posts you “could use against me” (lol) dating back to 4/5/11!

BTW, that’s all you could find to “kook” me??? Again, lol.


44 posted on 02/09/2013 9:32:11 AM PST by NoGrayZone (For evil to triumph it is only necessary for good men to do nothing.)
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To: NoGrayZone

“In regards to the officers that were “ambushed”. They lay blame on him. Have you heard of any evidence that came out confirming it was indeed him? Perhaps I missed it.”

One of the officers survived and said it was him and I don’t see why he would lie about that. They were at a stop light and Dorner appeared and shot them. This attack was at the beginning of this thing and I don’t think a copy cat would have started this fast, plus a copy cat wouldn’t have known where these cops were going. Granted, a copy cat could have just walked out and shot them, not knowing where they were going, but why would the one not killed lie about who it was? No matter who it was, it wasn’t going to get him in trouble.


45 posted on 02/09/2013 9:40:51 AM PST by Marcella (Prepping can save your life today. Going Galt is freedom.)
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To: Pilsner; NoGrayZone

“When you go out and start murdering the family members of guys who made you mad, and random folks who happen to work for the same employer, you are a kook...”

A “kook” is a word one would use who didn’t known much about human behavior - you qualify.


46 posted on 02/09/2013 9:45:29 AM PST by Marcella (Prepping can save your life today. Going Galt is freedom.)
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To: RedWhiteBlue
" Paranoid Personality Disorder"

Come on. They've shown they want to shoot him down in cold blood. Doesn't sound paranoid to me. They really have been out to get him.

47 posted on 02/09/2013 9:51:09 AM PST by PAR35
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To: Brandonmark

At this point, I would advise caution, as there clearly will be an effort to deconstruct, dehumanize and vilify the man.

And those that do so are not pristine individuals themselves. In his manifesto he complained of widespread corruption in the LAPD, which only recently stopped being under supervision after a series of corruption and brutality scandals.

The MSM are particularly good at demonizing those they hate.


48 posted on 02/09/2013 9:52:00 AM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy (Best WoT news at rantburg.com)
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To: Marcella
"One of the officers survived and said it was him and I don’t see why he would lie about that."

Ohhhhh, because cops don't lie. Good point.

49 posted on 02/09/2013 9:53:03 AM PST by NoGrayZone (For evil to triumph it is only necessary for good men to do nothing.)
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To: PAR35; RedWhiteBlue
Paranoid Personality Disorder

"Come on. They've shown they want to shoot him down in cold blood. Doesn't sound paranoid to me. They really have been out to get him."

Yeah, just ask the innocent civilians they've already shot. Thank God for the innocents they were terrible shooters.

50 posted on 02/09/2013 9:59:14 AM PST by NoGrayZone (For evil to triumph it is only necessary for good men to do nothing.)
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