Skip to comments.Why Are the Feds Loading Up On So Much Ammo?
Posted on 02/09/2013 9:26:32 AM PST by lbryce
In a puzzling, unexplained development, the Obama administration has been buying and storing vast amounts of ammunition in recent months, with the Department of Homeland Security just placing another order for an additional 21.6 million rounds.
Several other agencies of the federal government also began buying large quantities of bullets last year. The Social Security Administration, for instance, not normally considered on the frontlines of anything but dealing with seniors, explained that its purchase of millions of rounds was for special agents' required quarterly weapons qualifications. They must be pretty poor shots.
But DHS has been silent about its need for numerous orders of bullets in the multiple millions. Indeed, Examiner writer Ryan Keller points out Janet Napolitano's agency illegally redacted information from some ammunition solicitation forms following media inquiries.
According to one estimate, just since last spring DHS has stockpiled more than 1.6 billion bullets, mainly .40 caliber and 9mm. That's sufficient firepower to shoot every American about five times. Including illegal immigrants.
To provide some perspective, experts estimate that at the peak of the Iraq war American troops were firing around 5.5 million rounds per month. At that rate, DHS is armed now for a 24-year Iraq war.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.investors.com ...
It is simple supply and demand...
Make the supply smaller...price goes up...
Harder to afford ammo...
Just the results skeeter wants....
Most likely its cover for sending it overseas.
After all, what are they going to do, arm the post office?
I used to think it was a congressional pork project to make sure the ammo makers had some orders, but now I think the FedStapo and Big Sis think it a way to screw us lowly types. The last 5.56 I was able to find was at usarmorment some rather nice Federal 77 gr that somehow leaked past everyone and down to me, for a price. I also think if this is somewhat planned by Big Sis it has every chance of being the biggest boondoggle the “Elite” has conceived in awhile. I view it as the Fed ammo storage program, viable till the corrupted begin selling it or giving it away. After reading what the LAPD has become from that ex-cop the bright shiny future is not going to happen.
Well,Mr DHS .40 shooter-meet Mr .308 marksman.Good luck,you’re sure gonna need it.
Maybe unrelated, but I have been looking for reloading bullets all morning. I have plenty of brass, but no bullets to reload with. I need .40, .380 (and associated .357 calibers)among others.
I visited a dozen sites I normally buy reloading supplies from. Every single one OUT OF STOCK OUT OF STOCK OUT OF STOCK OUT OF STOCK OUT OF STOCK.
Never seen anything like it.
Because they know it takes their agents and police officers 30 or more rounds to make one hit!
Answer: Those currently in elected office, possessing a vast ability to collect information, have learned that a significant proportion of the American demographic hates them. Further, those currently in power have learned that each day brings us closer to all out, "knock down,drag out Social War. Hence, the gathering of ammunition and the storing of same in their bunkers.( Beleaguered demagogues always retreat to a bunker!)
It would be interesting to see if the large media centers are also obtaining and storing weapons and ammunition.
“I visited a dozen sites I normally buy reloading supplies from. Every single one OUT OF STOCK OUT OF STOCK OUT OF STOCK OUT OF STOCK OUT OF STOCK”
I recently had trouble trying to find a simple RCBS brush handle. Figured out that the handle of a Lyman accessory would fit it.
I think you are correct to an extent. Right now they are running scared with the amount of guns and ammo the public is buying. We’ve been at a record pace since 0bama took office.
So they can’t ban guns or ammo. What can they do? Buy up all the supply.
But there is a secondary result....and a question we all need to consider very carefully. Now that they’ve got 24 years worth of ammo or enough to shoot each of us 5 times..just exactly what are they going to do with it?
And while I get the whole free market idea and dealers making $$$$ off government purchases, are they just being greedy useful tools in our own destruction?
Before I get too alarmed about this, my questions are:
What are the historic norms for federal ammo purchases?
How many armed feds are there, and what is a reasonable amount of ammo to consume in annual training expectation per armed fed?
Continue to ask...
Where are they getting the money to “load up on so much ammo?”
I was able to sneak an order in at Hi-tech this week. It arrived yesterday. A couple of hours after I placed the order I went back to their site only to find that they were not taking any more orders. Montana Gold was supposed to have .223/5.56 projectiles in stock some time this month, now their order page is down. Widener's hasn't had anything in stock that I have wanted since the election.
Possibly, but at least some of the contracts are spread over five years. It could be a way of establishing a legal obligation over the "winning" bidder to continue supplying fedgov with ammo during that period, when said vendor might have reason to question the wisdom of continuing to do so.
Or it could just be a way of using the IDIQ form of contract to buy tomorrow's ammo at today's GSA schedule prices.
This FAL rifleman likes to say ‘howdy’ at 500 yards.
I think they did, but I know for sure they armed the Dept. of Education (gotta hunt down those student loan delinquents) and the Sosh Security Admin (just bought about 200K rounds of select handgun ammo). After all, those senior citizens get mighty uppity when the check is late.
They were advised by the LAPD that they are going to need a TON of ammo if they want to hit anything.
It is sick. A major reason I reload is to save money, so I buy projectiles in bulk. There are not many places that even sell in bulk, even before the shortage. I have had to radically cut my time on the range as I do not want my ammo stocks to completely disappear. I have been reduced to shooting mostly .22 LR with a mag or two of other calibers. Now I am finding it difficult to get .22 LR. So anytime I see a brick I buy it. With a family of four that shoots, it doesn’t take long to chew through a brick.
Checked the local Walmart yesterday. They had some 12 and 20 for shotguns, looked like it was mostly birdshot, about 5 boxes of 410 left, and some 7mm. All the other shelves were empty.
I am glad that stuff is fairly universal.
My budget does not allow RCBS but it is the best. I did buy a used .40 RCBS die set from a coworker that fit right in my Lee press.
I like the Lee pistol dies on my single stage press because they have the flow-through powder charging design.
It really isn’t as much as people are making it out to be. If you get into the details, what has changed is they are making five year contracts versus yearly contracts. Ammunition orders under the Bush administration were around 230 million rounds per year so the increase isn’t that much. (also note, many of the ‘billions’ stories make it appear they are actually getting that much delivered, which isn’t true, they are simply contracting a negotiated price for up to a certain amount for a period of time).
What has changed, however, is going to half-decade contracts at one time. This has created bottlenecks in the system that has impacted supply and is in part, causing the shortages you are seeing now.
LOL!! Yeh if they are planning to turn the DHS (TSA) loose on us let the festivities begin.
China, where else?
Agencies in bold text are LEAs (Law Enforcement Agencies)
Department of Agriculture (USDA) Office of Inspector General (USDAOIG) United States Forest Service (USFS) U.S. Forest Service Law Enforcement and Investigations (USFSLEI) Department of Commerce (DOC) Bureau of Industry and Security (BIS) Office of Export Enforcement (OEE) National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) National Institute of Standards and Technology Police (NIST Police) National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration Fisheries Office for Law Enforcement (OLE) Department of Commerce Office of Security (DOCOS) Department of Commerce Office of Inspector General (DOCOIG) Department of Defense Office of Inspector General (DODOIG) Defense Criminal Investigative Service (DCIS) Pentagon Force Protection Agency (PFPA) United States Pentagon Police (USPPD) Department of Defense Police Defense Logistics Agency Police (DLA) National Security Agency Police (NSA) Defense Intelligence Agency Police (DIA) National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency Police (NGA) Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction (SIGAR) Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction (SIGIR) Department of the Army Counterintelligence activity (CI), United States Army Intelligence and Security Command United States Army Criminal Investigation Command (CID) United States Army Military Police Corps Department of the Army Police United States Army Corrections Command Department of the Navy Naval Criminal Investigative Service (NCIS) United States Marine Corps Criminal Investigation Division (MC CID) Department of the Navy Police (civilian police) Marine Corps Provost Marshal's Office (military police) United States Marine Corps Police (civilian police) United States Naval Academy Police (civilian police) Master-at-Arms (U.S. Navy military police) Department of the Air Force Air Force Office of Special Investigations (AFOSI) Air Force Security Forces Center (AFSFC) Department of the Air Force Police Department of Education Office of the Inspector General (EDOIG) Department of Energy (DOE) Office of Inspector General (DOEOIG) Office of Health, Safety and Security (DOEHSS) Office of Secure Transportation (OST) Department of Health and Human Services United States Food and Drug and Administration (HHSFDA) Office of Criminal Investigations (OCI) National Institutes of Health (NIH) National Institutes of Health Police (NIH Police) Office of Inspector General (HHSOIG) Department of Homeland Security (DHS) CBP Officers and Border Patrol Agents at a ceremony in 2007 Federal Law Enforcement Training Center (FLETC) United States Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) United States Coast Guard (USCG) Coast Guard Investigative Service (CGIS) United States Customs and Border Protection (CBP) Office of Air and Marine (OAM) Office of Border Patrol (OBP) Office of Field Operations (OFO) Federal Protective Service (FPS) United States Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) Enforcement Removal Operations (ERO) Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) Office of Intelligence Office of Professional Responsibility (OPR) United States Secret Service (USSS) Transportation Security Administration (TSA) Office of Law Enforcement/Federal Air Marshal Service (FAMS) Department of Homeland Security Office of Inspector General (DHSOIG) Department of Housing and Urban Development Office of Inspector General (HUD/OIG)  Protective Service Division (HUDPSD) Department of the Interior (USDI) Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) Bureau of Indian Affairs Police (BIA Police) Bureau of Land Management (BLM) Bureau of Land Management Office of Law Enforcement (BLM Rangers and Special Agents) Bureau of Reclamation (BOR) Bureau of Reclamation Office of Law Enforcement (BOR Rangers) Hoover Dam Police aka Bureau of Reclamation Police National Park Service (NPS) Division of Law Enforcement, Security and Emergency Services (U.S. Park Rangers-Law Enforcement) United States Park Police Office of Inspector General (DOIOIG) Office of Surface Mining Reclamation and Enforcement (OSMRE) United States Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) Office of Law Enforcement Division of Refuge Law Enforcement Department of Justice (USDOJ) Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) United States Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) (since 1973) Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) Federal Bureau of Investigation Police (FBI Police) Federal Bureau of Prisons (BOP) Office of Inspector General (DOJOIG) United States Marshals Service (USMS) Department of Labor Office of Inspector General (DOLOIG) Department of State (DoS) Bureau of Diplomatic Security (DS) U.S. Diplomatic Security Service (DSS) Office of Foreign Missions Office of the Inspector General of the Department of State Department of Transportation Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) Office of Inspector General (DOTOIG) United States Merchant Marine Academy Department of Public Safety (USMMADPS) Office of Odometer Fraud Investigation - NHTSA (OFI) Department of the Treasury A Bureau of Engraving and Printing Police (BEP) patrol car. Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau Bureau of Engraving and Printing (BEP) Bureau of Engraving and Printing Police (BEP Police) Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FINCEN) Internal Revenue Service Criminal Investigation Division (IRS-CI) Office of Inspector General (TREASOIG) Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration (TIGTA) United States Mint Police (USMP) Special Inspector General for the Troubled Asset Relief Program (SIGTARP) Department of Veterans Affairs Office of Inspector General (VAOIG) Veterans Affairs Police
Library of Congress, Office of Security and Emergency Preparedness (LOC) Sergeant at Arms of the United States House of Representatives Sergeant at Arms of the United States Senate United States Capitol Police (USCP) United States Government Printing Office Police Office of Inspector General, United States Government Printing Office
Marshal of the United States Supreme Court United States Supreme Court Police Administrative Office of the United States Courts, Office of Probation and Pretrial Services (AOUSC)
Other federal law enforcement agencies
Independent Agencies and Quasi-official Corporations Central Intelligence Agency Security Protective Service (CIASPS) United States Environmental Protection Agency Criminal Investigation Division (EPACID) Office of Inspector General (EPAOIG) National Aeronautics and Space Administration Office of Inspector General (NASAOIG) NASA Security Services Nuclear Regulatory Commission, Office of Inspector General (NRCOIG) Office of Personnel Management, Office of Inspector General (OPMOIG) Railroad Retirement Board, Office of Inspector General (RRBOIG) Small Business Administration, Office of Inspector General (SBAOIG) Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, Office of Inspector General (FDICOIG) General Services Administration, Office of Inspector General (GSAOIG) Social Security Administration Office of Inspector General (SSAOIG) United States Postal Service (USPS) USPS Office of Inspector General (USPSOIG) United States Postal Inspection Service (USPIS) U.S. Postal Police Smithsonian Institution Office of Protection Services (SI) National Zoological Park Police (NZPP) Office of the Inspector General (OIG) Amtrak Amtrak Office of Inspector General Amtrak Office of Security Strategy and Special Operations (OSSSO) Amtrak Police Federal Reserve Bank: Federal Reserve Police Tennessee Valley Authority Tennessee Valley Authority Office of Inspector General (TVAOIG) Tennessee Valley Authority Police (TVAP) United States Agency for International Development, Office of Inspector General (AIDOIG) Statistics"
It takes a lot of bullets to kill a pickup from the rear.
Not funny is it?
Yeah, its mostly just a hobby for me. It can save money if you pick up brass. Start buying brass and your savings goes down.
I try to keep ammo stocks as well. I keep factory loads of ‘self defense’ hot loads that I do not shoot. They stay loaded in my guns but I take them out and shoot my reloads when I go to the backyard for fun.
I have an assortment of different caliber rifles, but heck, I shoot .22lr in my backyard just because its fun. Cheap too.
We set out water ballons at 300yds and have fun all day for minimal $$.
We also have “dart board” paper targets at about 150yds. Looks like a dart borad and you keep score like a dart game. Fun fun fun and cheap.
What you just said that is relates to the shortages we’re seeing now...doesn’t make any sense under the JIT delivery system.
What you said makes sense if somebody ...somewhere...is being required to actually stockpile that much. Whether it is in a government stockpile or at the production warehouse.... stockpiling it would cause a shortage.
Standard production JIT delivery on a 5 year contract would not...or should not at the rate we’re seeing now.
There would still be other mfgs. other calibers and ammo of the caliber being bought with different specs that people could buy.
There is absolutely no reason to try and affect the availability of .357SIG to the general public since it's not really that common of a round.
It depends on what calibers they’re ordering. I see a lot of references to handgun rounds, 9MM and .40 ammo. In light of recent events involving certain LAPD shooting incidents, they haven’t ordered nearly enough if they actually want to hit their intended targets. As for the AR crowd, you have to compete against the feds for supply of common military rounds, with civilians being only a secondary market.
There is absolutely no reason to try and affect the availability of .357SIG to the general public since it’s not really that common of a round.
When you consider 46% of 370 million people your enemy you need lots of ammo... That the way they figure
” they are simply contracting a negotiated price for up to a certain amount for a period of time).”
That is my understanding. A BPA deal.
“In accordance with Federal Acquisition Regulation (FAR) 8.405-3, ordering activities may establish Blanket Purchase Agreements (BPAs) under any GSA Schedule contract. GSA Schedules simplify the filling of recurring needs for supplies and services, while leveraging ordering activities buying power by taking advantage of quantity discounts, saving administrative time, and reducing paperwork. View the BPA training video series on our YouTube playlist.
To establish BPAs, ordering activities evaluate different contractors on Schedule for a particular category of supply or service, then establish an ongoing agreement for repetitive orders from the selected contractor. The agreement between ordering activity and Schedule contractors will generally look like this sample BPA format [Word, 27K].
Benefits and Advantages of BPAs
BPAs offer an excellent option for federal agencies and Schedule contractors alike, providing convenience, efficiency, and reduced costs. Contractual terms and conditions are contained in GSA Schedule contracts and are not to be re-negotiated for GSA Schedule BPAs. Therefore, as a purchasing option, BPAs eliminate such contracting and open market costs as the search for sources, the need to prepare solicitations, and the requirement to synopsize the acquisition.
Provide opportunities to negotiate improved discounts;
Satisfy recurring requirements;
Reduce administrative costs by eliminating repetitive acquisition efforts;
Permit ordering activities to leverage buying power through volume purchasing;
Enable ordering activities streamlined ordering procedures;
Permit ordering activities to incorporate Contractor Team Arrangements (CTAs)
Reduce procurement lead time; and
Permit ordering activities the ability to incorporate terms and conditions not in conflict with the underlying contract.
A BPA can be set up for field offices across the nation, thus allowing them to participate in a customer’s BPA and place orders directly with GSA Schedule contractors. In doing so, the entire agency reaps the benefits of additional discounts negotiated into the BPA.
A multi-agency BPA is also permitted if the BPA identifies the participating agencies and their estimated requirements at the time the BPA is established.”
Cease thy jest, thou devil-coddling knave, and pay thy income tax.
I hate to admit it but your scenario is also my “last resort”
explanation to myself as to this (apparently) unprecedented
purchase of ammo (using, of course, OUR money to do it.)
There are other explanations, a few of which have been already offered on this thread.
We might inch closer to a credible explanation if we had some
enterprising reporter bring it up at a presser. (Jake Tapper, perhaps?) and NOT give up when he gets the typical evasive
answer from , for example, Jay Carney. But , on the face of it, I have no doubt that, whether the ammo buy has anything to do with it, this Administration has a sense that it has created a virtual point of no return in polarizing enormous sectors of the population, and that they want this polarization will continue: they for all practical purposes, are not afraid to go “all in”. In any event, they need to provide their OWN explanation for the purchase, and we can all take it from there. At the same time, I think it would be very difficult to get an honest response from them, when so much could be accomplished by letting the whole issue twist in the wind, and make our side look like conspiracy nuts, while waiting for an opportunity to bring it all to a fever pitch where they can provoke some fringe group into acting violently, then clamp down on ALL of us.
One thing is for sure: there is no “benign” explanation for this ammo purchase.
Went to the Rocky Mountain Gunshow last weekend, plenty of ammo available, even at the end of the show.
300 rounds of 556 for $400.
Our “conservaative” House holds the purse, but so far nothing from them on this business. They’ll be the first ones arrested when they finally get wise.
The specs for the ammo are too specific. It stipulates a specific bullet be used in say the .40 S&W.
There are too many other mfg. making the same cal of ammo but with their own or different bullets from different mfg. to affect overall supply.
That one .40 cal bullet from that one mfg would be in shortage and then only for a short time.
If they are buying this for supply over a 5 year period, then it’s not so bad that they are buying this quantity, in fact it would make sense economically as it would lock in the price as the price goes up.
The question is did they change from yearly purchase to 5 year purchase for economic reasons?
Democrats never gave a damn about saving taxpayers money before so why now?
More that likely they changed to get the response they are getting from everyone right now.
They are intentionally pushing peoples buttons on every issue to fuel mistrust in the govt. in the hope that someone will snap and respond.
It’s always prudent to provide an innocent alternative explanation.
Elections are over.
Haha, you beat me to it.
Then why redact that info in the reports to media queries?
Sure sounds reasonable. How do we explain the all the folks here reporting store shelves and web sites going empty of ammunition?
Also check out the manufacturers of brass & bullets. They often have supply and sometimes cheaper too.
By nx summer, when the shelves are again full; splurge and get everything you and your kids will ever need and forget about it. I bought all the .556 I'll ever need when it was $179/case and now even the wife agrees I did something good way back when. Ya know after Big"O" first got elected, around the summer of 2008, the shelves were again full of supplies. I spent a few thou, got a big discount, and now don't have a worry in the world except for new calibers I acquire. Life is so much easier and I smile more too.
The week before Sandy Hook, it was $322/1000.
No, that would not be a wise action. Remember the term "going Postal"? Yes, some of the USPS is nuttier than the Ocuppy Movement. And that is not saying much.
“DHS, all your ammo are belong to US!!!” ,said the Little Red Hen.
“Its just as easy to liberate 1.6 billion rounds. All we have to know is where it is. Its ours, we paid for it.
One refusal to issue my tax return check and I will take ammo instead. Take my retirement savings? I will take the value out in ammo,” said the Little Red Hen.
The specs for the ammo are too specific. It stipulates a specific bullet be used in say the .40 S&W.
Switching from a bullet for 357SIG to 40S&W isn’t a big deal (maybe more than trivial, with some tuning to get it running right).
I’ve been in a factory with dozens of these machines, and seen them in action. They’re impressive. The owner likes to say that when a machine is running, it’s going (as fast as you can say it): “nickle-nickle-nickle-nickle...”
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