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Stalled Out on Tesla’s Electric Highway (Great Article)
New York Times ^ | Feb 10, 2013 | John Broder

Posted on 02/10/2013 7:40:17 AM PST by BobL

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GREAT ARTICLE
1 posted on 02/10/2013 7:40:32 AM PST by BobL
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To: BobL

Shocked the fascist NYT allowed this to be printed.

Not shocked that our fascist Government gave this comppany hundreds of millions of dollars.


2 posted on 02/10/2013 7:45:13 AM PST by Tea Party Terrorist (Those who work for a living are now outnumbered by those who vote for a living.)
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To: BobL

For reference, the article states that vehicle has 1000 lbs. of batteries. Yes, it’s high performance, but even a high performance car will typically cover 200 miles on 10 gallons of gas, if driven at the ideal speed for economy (as this person had to do) - maybe 100 lbs, with some extra and the gas tank weight included. Also, you can ALWAYS run the heater in a gasoline car, without penalty. Also, you can fill up in 5 minutes, not 60 minutes.


3 posted on 02/10/2013 7:46:21 AM PST by BobL
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To: BobL
Just use a bunch of these.
4 posted on 02/10/2013 7:57:17 AM PST by Jeff Chandler (WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE?)
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To: Jeff Chandler

Do the math...it would still take 10 hours to charge, even through that cord (at 240 Volts).

Their fast-charge system is in another dimension and I wouldn’t recommend getting anywhere near the vehicle while it’s having that much power applied to it.


5 posted on 02/10/2013 8:00:01 AM PST by BobL
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To: BobL

Seems this guy just got mugged by reality. Anyone who has ever owned anything battery powered should understand the affect of cold weather....and be able to successfully predict range failure. The fact that this guy didn’t just means he was on hopium....and the first 24 withdrawal is the worst.


6 posted on 02/10/2013 8:02:40 AM PST by lacrew (Mr. Soetoro, we regret to inform you that your race card is over the credit limit.)
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To: lacrew

“Seems this guy just got mugged by reality...”

Hard to tell. It may be that he was acting dumb for effect...as most people are, like you say, dumb in these areas. He may be quite smart, but wanted to make a spectacle out of Tesla, which he certainly did, in any case - especially the part about the car locking up when its battery dies - that’s one ‘feature’ that they really, really, try to hide from people.


7 posted on 02/10/2013 8:05:54 AM PST by BobL
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To: BobL

The Volt gets (ideally) 1 mile of range per 10 pounds of battery. This Tesla, even with better engineering, is probably looking at 100 or so miles of practical range, not 300 or 200.


8 posted on 02/10/2013 8:11:46 AM PST by palmer (Obama = Carter + affirmative action)
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To: BobL
Fernwood 2 night Electric Car
9 posted on 02/10/2013 8:11:59 AM PST by Vince Ferrer
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To: BobL
I always love it when some product claims x number of units are the standard and guaranteed and then you read the fine print.

For instance standard battery mileage on a Tesla is 242 miles, IF you are going downhill all the way and you have a 60 mile an hour tail wind and you don't run your heater, radio, lights, windshield wipers, AC, or fans AND the outside temperature stays between 73 - 62 degrees Fahrenheit.

10 posted on 02/10/2013 8:12:35 AM PST by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: BobL

He didn’t make a spectacle out of the Tesla. The Tesla was quite capable of doing that itself.


11 posted on 02/10/2013 8:16:37 AM PST by Bob
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To: BobL

Battery technology is still 10 years away from what they need right now. Obama seems to think that the the electric car is like the space program. But the basic science for space travel was available in 1920. So it boiled down to an engineering problem. Not so the electric car, which is why real advancement died on it about 1920.


12 posted on 02/10/2013 8:21:41 AM PST by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: BobL

Good thing he didn’t do the drive during the northeast’s recent -20 F degree stretch. They wouldn’t have found his body until May.


13 posted on 02/10/2013 8:23:32 AM PST by pabianice (washington, dc ..)
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To: palmer

It is still a rich man’s toy, like a caddy was 100 years ago.


14 posted on 02/10/2013 8:23:47 AM PST by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: BobL
Cold weather is the nemesis of any electric vehicle. Even my wife's gas-electric hybrid Ford Escape has a significant drop in mileage when the temperature drops. During a recent cold snap where temperatures were in the teens and single digits her mileage went from the usual 34 mpg to an abysmal 20 mpg. At least with a gas-electric hybrid she didn't have to forgo using the heater. I would think these pure electric vehicles would be a major safety hazard if during adverse weather you not only had to shut off the heater but the defroster, wipers and headlights to have any hope of getting to your destination. Imagine a fill up at your local gas station taking a good hour even if the cost of the recharge is “free” courtesy of the US taxpayers. These rechargeable electric cars are a total joke and unless there is some miracle breakthrough in battery technology that allows for a 500 mile range, a 5-10 minute recharge and improved performance in cold weather the public would have to be forced to buy them by government fiat.
15 posted on 02/10/2013 8:29:38 AM PST by The Great RJ
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To: BobL

Yes. A great article about the overstated claims by the manufacturer and the government on expected performance and the petulant requirements of a battery system exposed to the natural environment.


16 posted on 02/10/2013 8:31:17 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: BobL

This is the sort of thing that happens when you allow lunatics to run the country and give them a completely blank check with which to indulge their fantasies.


17 posted on 02/10/2013 8:32:07 AM PST by centurion316
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To: BobL

A complete fuster cluck. For what was spent on towing, service calls and other nonsense you could have driven cross country and back in a Chevy sedan.

Imagine just a few thousand of these Edsels clamoring for charging and other needs between NYC and parts north.


18 posted on 02/10/2013 8:33:05 AM PST by soycd
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To: The Great RJ

It does not bode well for the electric, nor the electri-gas hybrid vehicles when Mr. Prius, Totoya’s major impetus behind that best seller recently said the technology is not viable; that it will never compete with the capabilities of a gas-powered vehicle, and that some other technology like fuel cell powered or hyrdogen powered (hydrogen stored in metal hydride pellets).


19 posted on 02/10/2013 8:36:30 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: BobL

“a spacious and ultrahip cabin, “

Good. If for some reason you forget that you are hip you have only to look around you to be reassured.


20 posted on 02/10/2013 8:38:50 AM PST by TalBlack (Evil doesn't have a day job.)
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To: soycd

“Imagine just a few thousand of these Edsels clamoring for charging and other needs between NYC and parts north”

That’s a REAL part of it. GM has a Chevy Volt Rapid Response Team that immediately flies out to anywhere in the country once one of their cars has an accident. The reason: because that battery can easily blow if rescue/salvage workers don’t properly secure it, and you have to really know the vehicle to understand how to secure it.

Yes, gas cars also can blow up, but that risk is understood by all and the auto companies don’t need to send rapid response teams to the 30,000 or so accidents that occur EVERY DAY on our roads.


21 posted on 02/10/2013 8:44:54 AM PST by BobL
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To: TalBlack
Yes, how hip it is to wait in your hip cabin for a half hour while the guy who pulled in in front of you is recharging, and waiting another half hour to recharge yourself.
22 posted on 02/10/2013 8:46:05 AM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: BobL

Just wait ‘till Teslas and Leafs (Leaves?) start to line up at the charging stations. Each car in front of you, that’s 30 minutes of waiting, while the gas-powered cars recharge in 5 minutes and their drivers laugh at you.

Just wait ‘till the liberals start to fight with each other.


23 posted on 02/10/2013 8:48:17 AM PST by Fresh Wind (The last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away.)
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To: Fresh Wind

“Just wait ‘till Teslas and Leafs (Leaves?) start to line up at the charging stations.”

Good point. For example, just doing the math, it will take a full MEGAWATT to charge one of these beasts in 5 minutes (assuming that they find a battery that can take it). That is some serious power, as in like a small town. There will be a big infrastructure hit, assuming that these cars ever go anywhere.


24 posted on 02/10/2013 8:52:53 AM PST by BobL
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To: BobL
Their fast-charge system is in another dimension and I wouldn’t recommend getting anywhere near the vehicle while it’s having that much power applied to it.

A full charge of 85 kwh in one hour means 85 kilowatts going into the car.

My all-electric house, with air conditioner, water heater, dryer, oven, and stove with all elements on "high" simultaneously only pulls 20 kw (I tried it once as an experiment).

Nope, don't wanna be anywhere near that thing on fast-charge.

25 posted on 02/10/2013 8:53:53 AM PST by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: BobL

Even more bizarre, Tesla’s charging stations are solar powered.

“You will be able to drive free forever on pure sunlight. I think it’s pretty hard to beat that.”

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-09-25/tesla-fires-up-solar-powered-charging-stations

What could possibly go wrong?


26 posted on 02/10/2013 8:56:48 AM PST by Fresh Wind (The last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away.)
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To: BobL

Down south the A/C is gonna drain the battery quick, or you can be wringing wet with sweat when you arrive at your destination.


27 posted on 02/10/2013 8:57:01 AM PST by Mister Da (The mark of a wise man is not what he knows, but what he knows he doesn't know!)
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To: TalBlack
Three years ago, Steven Chu, the Nobel Prize-winning physicist and secretary of energy, proudly announced a $465 million loan to Tesla as part of an advanced vehicles program intended to cut fossil fuel use and address global warming.

By golly sounds like we sure got our money's worth. Yet another sound green investment by Obama & Co.

28 posted on 02/10/2013 9:04:34 AM PST by Robwin
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To: Gaffer

“It does not bode well for the electric, nor the electri-gas hybrid vehicles when Mr. Prius, Totoya’s major impetus behind that best seller recently said the technology is not viable; that it will never compete with the capabilities of a gas-powered vehicle, and that some other technology like fuel cell powered or hyrdogen powered (hydrogen stored in metal hydride pellets).”

First - think the Prius founder’s quote was widely misinterpreted. He was not disparaging his own product (which has now been copied by Ford and Hyundai). Instead, he pointed out that all electric and electric with gas backup (i.e. the Volt) would never succeed. The Prius (even the plug in version) is primarily a gas car, which captures wasted energy to make itself more efficient. This is very different than the Volt, and they should not be mistakenly lumped together.

Let me make you a promise concerning hydrogen. It will never, ever, in a gazillion years, power more than one percent of the vehicles on the road. Politicians and laymen love to talk about ‘hydrogen fuel cells’...that’s fine. But where on earth does hydrogen come from? You can’t just mine it like coal, oil, natural gas. So how do you get it? You use electricity to split the water molecule...at a 40% efficiency. So much for all that ‘clean burning’ talk, when you consider the source of the electricity. Or, you could use an expensive chemical process....that isn’t viable either. And if you manage to get hydrogen, there’s the whole business of using precious metals as a catalyst to store it.

So trust me, I promise, we will not have widespread hydrogen vehicles.


29 posted on 02/10/2013 9:04:54 AM PST by lacrew (Mr. Soetoro, we regret to inform you that your race card is over the credit limit.)
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To: Fresh Wind

“Even more bizarre, Tesla’s charging stations are solar powered.”

...so they claim. If you do the math on those, you’d see that they need a solar farm to get 85 kW output on a reasonably continuous bases (i.e., only averaging one car at a time), and a HUGE battery for reduced (or no) sunlight conditions. I bet if you look around a 100’ perimeter, you’ll see some pretty fat power lines running from pole to underground - if you know what I mean.

In other words, the panels may do some stuff, but the real charging power is from the grid.


30 posted on 02/10/2013 9:29:06 AM PST by BobL
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To: lacrew

I didn’t misinterpret his comments. I read them and can understand them.

Hydrogen, fusion, nuclear - it does not matter. Electric, like the hydrogen creation efficiency you disparage is equally as inefficient in the generation, storage and reapplication to energy that provides movement. For all-electric it is even worse. When you try to improve the amp/hour storage, discharge efficiency and reduce the charge time, you get fires.


31 posted on 02/10/2013 9:32:51 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: BobL

Opening high-price coffee shops near charging stations would be a good way to make money off of tree-hugging libs.


32 posted on 02/10/2013 9:37:44 AM PST by Kirkwood (Zombie Hunter)
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To: RobbyS

“Obama seems to think that the the electric car is like the space program.”

No, you miss the point with their energy strategy. They know FULL WELL that pretty much all of these new technologies suck, but they serve an interim purpose.

Their ULTIMATE GOAL is to stop us from driving our own cars, they ABSOLUTELY HATE IT. So they, smartly, concluded that the only way for the public to accept such a drastic change in lifestyle is to trick them into thinking it won’t be so bad...because we have another option that’s nearly as good. So, for transportation, it’s electric cars, for coal plants that they want to shut down, it’s solar power, etc.

So the strategy buys them time, while they dismember the basic components of a society that they DESPISE.


33 posted on 02/10/2013 9:42:32 AM PST by BobL
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To: centurion316

“This is the sort of thing that happens when you allow lunatics to run the country and give them a completely blank check with which to indulge their fantasies.”

NOPE, NOPE, NOPE!!!

They are NOT lunatics. If they were lunatics they would not have gotten this country to take the most left-wing candidate for president seriously, twice, much less elect him twice. On top of that, they managed to select the Republican candidate that they wanted Obama to run against, TWICE!

No, they are BRILLIANT. They have policies that are HATED by the country (gun grabbing, healthcare, gay rights, etc.), yet they win...that makes them very, very, smart, at least to me.


34 posted on 02/10/2013 9:46:17 AM PST by BobL
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To: Mister Da

i am seriously surprised they haven’t integrated thin film solar panels into the roof, hood and trunk of all-electric vehicles. if anything to offset some of the drain of heat, a/c, ability to repower a little without a station...


35 posted on 02/10/2013 9:56:53 AM PST by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: Red Badger; RFEngineer

ping.


36 posted on 02/10/2013 9:59:34 AM PST by Army Air Corps (Four Fried Chickens and a Coke)
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To: BobL

LOL several times reading this article - especially the snip below.

“I noticed that the estimated range was falling faster than miles were accumulating. At 68 miles since recharging, the range had dropped by 85 miles, and a little mental math told me that reaching Milford would be a stretch.”


37 posted on 02/10/2013 9:59:37 AM PST by Let's Roll (Save the world's best healthcare - REPEAL, DEFUND Obamacare!)
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To: BobL

Some of the world’s most dangerous lunatics were quite smart. Lunacy is not confined to the intellectually challenged.


38 posted on 02/10/2013 10:00:30 AM PST by centurion316
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To: Gaffer

Please take a gander at the article that started all the fuss:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/04/uk-autos-electric-hydrogen-idUSLNE91303P20130204

The article is about ‘battery electric’ cars…not the Prius.
Now here’s the quote you alluded to:

“Because of its shortcomings - driving range, cost and recharging time - the electric vehicle is not a viable replacement for most conventional cars,” said Uchiyamada.

Do you think he meant the Prius has a range problem? I don’t.

Is your understanding of his quote that he believes the Prius takes too long to charge? It’s certainly not mine.

The article had nothing to do with the Prius.

I will re-hash a post I made last week, explaining the difference between Prius and Volt.

“To put this into perspective, the Volt’s electric motor is 149 hp, while its engine is 80 hp....while the Prius uses a 80 hp electric motor and 98 hp engine. See how they are reversed? (also keep in mind that the Volt weighs 600 lb more than the Prius plug in, because it is primarily an electric vehicle).”

I hope you can see the difference. The quote meant that Toyota is not going to monkey around with a Leaf or Volt type car. Instead, it means they will stick with their Prius and try to find something better…but not go through the motions of producing a loser. Just for ‘green cred’. Now, they do have a plug in add on for the Prius…precisely to satisfy the ‘green’ crowd even more. And its actually not a bad idea. ..it allows the owner to pre-charge the energy recapture system…may save a few cents a day, with no real drawback.

“Electric, like the hydrogen creation efficiency you disparage is equally as inefficient in the generation, storage and reapplication to energy that provides movement”….true, but moot if the Prius merely captures energy that will otherwise be wasted. Again, I hope you can see the distinction between recapturing kinetic energy during braking, and paying 12 cents per kwh to charge a battery.

BTW, I may have come off as a huge fan of the Prius…I would never own one, because I don’t like the look, and its still pricey for its size. However, I recognize that the technology of energy recapture is here to stay…and it is now on many models, from different car manufacturers. And, the father of the Prius certainly recognizes this too. Re-read his quote one more time…it has absolutely nothing, nada, zip to do with the Prius.

Why do I care, and why do I keep chewing on this bone? If you tell a person that the Volt has terrible sales, and cost too much….you will get a response that includes some equivalency to the Prius. There is none. The basic philosophy behind the vehicles is completely different. I don’t want whatever success the Prius has had to be used as a crutch to keep spending more taxpayer money on the Volt. Its that simple.


39 posted on 02/10/2013 10:08:02 AM PST by lacrew (Mr. Soetoro, we regret to inform you that your race card is over the credit limit.)
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To: Fresh Wind
Probably nothing except things like night, clouds, etc. It reminds me of the guy I talked to in CA a few years ago who was going to buy an EV and charge it from solar panels on his roof. At the time, the complete recharge would take about eight hours, but he was sure he could get that overnight while he slept. Must've had some pretty potent moonshine.

Doncha just love it...?

40 posted on 02/10/2013 10:11:44 AM PST by chimera
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To: lacrew

The Volt was conceived as fundamentally being an electric car with an onboard gas generator to extend range. The production reality is not quite the same as the original conception.

The Prius was conceivec as fundamentally being an i ternal combustion engine powered car with electric boost and energy recapture. That it is, and love it or hate it, the car works as conceived. They’re sort of bland appliances and do not appeal to me personally. But, there is abso,utely nothing questionable or unreliable about their drivetrain. They’re the gold standard of hybrid gas/electric passenger cars.


41 posted on 02/10/2013 10:16:38 AM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: BobL
Also, you can fill up in 5 minutes, not 60 minutes.

And the gas tank doesn't lose 1% of its capacity on each fill-up. This reviewer noticed that each next charge results in fewer miles to empty, and only a very long (80 minutes) charge bumped that number higher. Still, on day one he got 242 miles to empty, and a day or two later, after a long charge, it was 216 miles. If this trend continues, after a couple of weeks the car won't have enough range to drive away from a charger :-) I don't want to have this sword of Damocles over my head, especially when the battery pack costs more than two new gasoline cars.

I'd gladly buy an EV, but only after it becomes technically sound - such as reasonably priced, and with battery that is capable of a reliable range and that can be quickly recharged and that doesn't lose capacity from age or from extreme temperatures. Otherwise people will die in these cars as they drive in hot or cold places.

42 posted on 02/10/2013 10:24:23 AM PST by Greysard
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To: RegulatorCountry

I agree with everything you’ve said.


43 posted on 02/10/2013 10:25:01 AM PST by lacrew (Mr. Soetoro, we regret to inform you that your race card is over the credit limit.)
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To: lacrew

I don’t have a dog in this fight. You know, sometimes science and fate work out to the very simple proposition that the first discovery, the easiest discovery and application (an use) may actually be the best.

In the perspective of things, I think petroleum based resources are here for their use. I also think that this “green cred” idea you mention can be borne, not of higher efficiency - better use - better application, but of pure politics and plain power-grabbing and ultimate control.

Mother nature has a way of backfiring on proponents like this. In some cases, batteries, despite all the graft greed and kickbacks, just can take the ultimate use comparison in actual application. They burn up - their charging stations in the ‘green homes’ burn up.

Likewise for the plastics reduction nuts. Plastic grocery bags - oooga boooga - are a big fricking no-no! Yet, now we see indications where all the good little “green-cred” wannabe ‘consumer ecologists’ don’t wash their cloth reusable grocery bags and disease and illness follows.

I’m out of all this. I’ll stick with gas as long as it’s available and you won’t see a hybrid, nor a charging station in my garage. Let the “green creds” have them. Our fire department first responders need the work it seems.


44 posted on 02/10/2013 10:27:20 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: BobL
...theory can be trumped by reality, especially when Northeast temperatures plunge.

Not really. The marketing of the car is based on ignoring theory. Or, rather, using the theory under ideal conditions at all times.

45 posted on 02/10/2013 10:34:32 AM PST by raybbr (People who still support Obama are either a Marxist or a moron.)
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To: BobL

I guess that Romney was right (and the press was wrong) about his criticisms of Tesla after all. Who would have guessed?


46 posted on 02/10/2013 10:47:08 AM PST by Rybashka
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To: lacrew

The Prius is doing fine. From what I can tell, it is able to win over customers, while still playing by the rules (i.e., no Obama money). I agree with you - it’s night and day compared to the electric and mostly electric cars.


47 posted on 02/10/2013 11:08:14 AM PST by BobL
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To: Fresh Wind

Oh that won’t be a problem for long. The feral government will just build a lot more charging lanes and remove the gas pumps.


48 posted on 02/10/2013 11:11:24 AM PST by Clay Moore (The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of a fool to the left. Ecclesiastes 10:2)
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To: Greysard

You’re right about the range varying. When you through that much power into a battery, you have to be conservative if you don’t want to light up the town. So yes, the batteries will take a hit, both in life, and how much charge they can hold, if you keep charging at 85 kW (which still blows my mind).


49 posted on 02/10/2013 11:12:17 AM PST by BobL
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To: Rybashka

“I guess that Romney was right (and the press was wrong) about his criticisms of Tesla after all. Who would have guessed?”

He was right on a lot of stuff...except thinking that you could be nice and respectful to Obama and still win.

But that was still better than McCain, who simply wanted to lose.


50 posted on 02/10/2013 11:14:00 AM PST by BobL
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