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Who is Mentally Ill?
The Future of Freedom Foundation ^ | February 8, 2013 | Wendy McElroy

Posted on 02/14/2013 4:00:25 PM PST by imardmd1

The current push toward gun control is being presented in a particularly dangerous and dishonest manner. It is being framed in terms of mental health and packaged in a way that almost guarantees victory for the advocates of control. The debating point proffered is, “How do we keep guns away from the mentally ill?”

Thus far, President Obama’s answer has been vague and administrative enough to avoid the need for Congressional approval.

(snip)

State-controlled psychiatry is a terrifying weapon, especially when it is used to determine who has rights.

Every individual should be able to be eccentric, different, and even self-destructive. As long as the behavior harms no one else, it is no business of authority. To screen people for potentially dangerous behavior is a form of pre-crime diligence that gives government an almost unlimited power over anyone it targets. It is a tool of social control, not safety.

(Excerpt) Read more at fff.org ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2ndamendment; gunlaws; mentalstandards; personsprohibited
This author suggests that we ought to be very, very careful about how much of the mental qualifications, standards, and testing we allow to fall into the hands of the federal bureauocracy, going forward. Prudently, it would be none. Asking for the focus to shift from hardware issues to mental testing can take the Second Amendment provisions for personal heeoing and bearing of arms right out of the picyure. Be warned!
1 posted on 02/14/2013 4:00:35 PM PST by imardmd1
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To: imardmd1

... keeping and bearing ...


2 posted on 02/14/2013 4:03:15 PM PST by imardmd1 (Let the redeemed of the LORD say so, whom he hath redeemed from the hand of the enemy. (Ps. 107:2))
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To: imardmd1
*insert image of gay parade here*

Questions?

3 posted on 02/14/2013 4:03:55 PM PST by Caipirabob (Communists... Socialists... Democrats...Traitors... Who can tell the difference?)
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To: imardmd1

The author is correct. We should all heed her warning.


4 posted on 02/14/2013 4:06:03 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: imardmd1
If we don't believe in the things Obama and the Leftists believe in, we must be crazy!

So by definition, if we're not like them, we're mentally ill and they can relieve us of our arms.
If they dare try...

5 posted on 02/14/2013 4:17:16 PM PST by grobdriver (Vivere liberi aut mori)
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To: imardmd1

If you read about some the most brilliant and successful people in America, most would not fall under the group “normal”. I would also would not fall under the group “normal”. I guess that makes me brilliant and successful!

But then today normal isn’t normal anymore.


6 posted on 02/14/2013 4:26:43 PM PST by ThomasThomas (Normal isn't normal anymore.)
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To: imardmd1
I attended a public health seminar on gun violence.

There was an interesting discussion on the mental health aspects. What was said is that there are a huge number of people, some with significant mental health issues who are not violent either toward themselves or others. There was fear that this concern is just going to marginalize many people with mental health problems even more.

What was interesting was some admission by the public health doctors that when (1) mental there are severe mental health problems coupled with substance abuse (alcohol, legal drugs, or illegal drugs) there are reasons to medically intervene, and (2) when people with severe mental health problems and a propensity to violence encounter a life-changing event (loss of job, death of loved one, loss of mental health services, no longer able to take medications, etc.) they can become violent.

Personally, I too would urge that any mental health informaton used for firearms background checks be treated carefully as the stigma of mental illness is a real problem for some.

7 posted on 02/14/2013 4:28:55 PM PST by Robert357 (D.Rather "Hoist with his own petard!" www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1223916/posts)
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To: Robert357
There was an interesting discussion on the mental health aspects. What was said is that there are a huge number of people, some with significant mental health issues who are not violent either toward themselves or others. There was fear that this concern is just goingg to marginalize many people with mental health problems even more.

While there are states like Illinois who bar firearm ownership to anyone who has been in a mental hospital, including those for drug or alcohol abuse, the federal restriction is for those who have been committed as a danger to themselves or others, in almost all cases involuntarily. This doesn't marginalize the mentally ill who voluntarily seek treatment, and could well encourage voluntary treatment rather than commitment.

IMO laws like Illinois' which deters treatment for all disorders is a much bigger problem, and an issue I've never heard addressed by the mental health community. When someone has reached the point of commitment as a danger to self and others, they're pretty far down the mental illness road. It's a shame the mental health community deliberately confuses the issue.

BTW, I don't necessarily agree with a lifetime ban, mental illness can be cured, nor the ban on non violent felons. But those are dead issues.

8 posted on 02/14/2013 4:37:31 PM PST by SJackson (The Pilgrims—Doing the jobs Native Americans wouldn’t do !)
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To: imardmd1

Note my post 7. The federal bar is rather steep, danger to self and others in most cases involuntary comitment. No one has talked about mental testing. The question is whether states should cooperate with the federal government and provide the names of involuntary comitments.


9 posted on 02/14/2013 4:40:29 PM PST by SJackson (The Pilgrims—Doing the jobs Native Americans wouldn’t do !)
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To: imardmd1

Oops, post 8


10 posted on 02/14/2013 4:40:53 PM PST by SJackson (The Pilgrims—Doing the jobs Native Americans wouldn’t do !)
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To: imardmd1

Time for an old Cold War joke:
American: I hear you put political dissidents in mental hospitals. Is that true?
Soviet: What else should we do with them? It’s clear a person MUST be crazy if he is a dissident in the USSR.


11 posted on 02/14/2013 4:47:30 PM PST by VanShuyten ("a shadow...draped nobly in the folds of a gorgeous eloquence.")
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To: grobdriver
If we don't believe in the things Obama and the Leftists believe in, we must be crazy!

Yup. Catch-22. If I want a gun, I'm too abnormal to be permitted to have one; but if I don't and have no interest, then its OK for me to have the option. Gaaaah!

12 posted on 02/14/2013 4:50:51 PM PST by imardmd1 (Let the redeemed of the LORD say so, whom he hath redeemed from the hand of the enemy. (Ps. 107:2))
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To: grobdriver

That’s some catch that catch 22. It’s the best there is


13 posted on 02/14/2013 4:51:28 PM PST by South Dakota (shut up and build a bakken pipe line)
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To: imardmd1
 photo horror-story_510x3171.jpg
14 posted on 02/14/2013 5:04:31 PM PST by RetSignman ("...a Republic if you can keep it")
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To: imardmd1
Articles that explain how modern liberals suffer from a mental disorder.


15 posted on 02/14/2013 5:08:27 PM PST by TigersEye (The irresponsible should not be leading the responsible.)
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To: imardmd1

Who’s mentally ill?

Anyone who says they are not. The mentally ill are paranoid and lie.


16 posted on 02/14/2013 5:23:16 PM PST by Scrambler Bob ( Concerning bo -- that refers to the president. If I capitalize it, I mean the dog.)
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To: imardmd1
It may be difficult to define mental illness and to then apply the definition without making some mistakes, but most people who are mentally healthy will conclude that when it comes to guns and explosives, it makes some sense to try to design and apply some sensible definitions.
17 posted on 02/14/2013 5:33:10 PM PST by Tau Food (Never give a sword to a man who can't dance.)
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To: SJackson; Robert357
All very well put; just remember that the USSR and most other socialist states have/had acres of institutionalized citizens because the powers-that-be determined people who opposed their policies to be mentally ill.

Anyone who thinks Obama and his ilk are beyond that is nuts.

18 posted on 02/14/2013 5:41:23 PM PST by norton
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To: grobdriver
grobdriver wrote:

"If they dare try"...

<Doctor nods, smiles, and writes on notepad>:>

"The patient appears to be highly agitated and has made a menacing threat to commit act(s) of physical violence against others and/or himself. This behavior, which is very often found in this particular demographic, is symptomatic of Anti-Social Personality Disorder.

Recommending immediate enlistment on gun ownership ban list, and intensive therapy in a State Mental Healthcare Facility.

(Note to self, need to download and print more blank firearm ownership ban list forms... just ran out... again)"


19 posted on 02/14/2013 6:14:32 PM PST by Rodamala
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To: norton

No, he’s not beyond that.


20 posted on 02/14/2013 6:18:01 PM PST by SJackson (The Pilgrims—Doing the jobs Native Americans wouldn’t do !)
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To: Tau Food
It may be difficult to define mental illness and to then apply the definition without making some mistakes, but most people who are mentally healthy will conclude that when it comes to guns and explosives, it makes some sense to try to design and apply some sensible definitions.

Don't let the left confuse the issue. Note my post 8, the standard is clear and decades old. And already in the public record, since virtually all cases involve court (or other authority) ordered commitment. The only issue is whether the states are willing to provide the information ot the NICS system.

21 posted on 02/14/2013 6:20:25 PM PST by SJackson (The Pilgrims—Doing the jobs Native Americans wouldn’t do !)
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To: imardmd1

According to communists, anyone opposing communism.


22 posted on 02/14/2013 6:20:29 PM PST by ctdonath2 (3% of the population perpetrates >50% of homicides...but gun control advocates blame metal boxes.)
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To: Rodamala
Heh.
Note to self - avoid doctors at all costs.
23 posted on 02/15/2013 3:19:43 AM PST by grobdriver (Vivere liberi aut mori)
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To: Caipirabob
*insert image of gay parade here* Questions?

And you have just declared yourself mentally ill and too dangerous to have a gun - any non-PC tendencies are a clear demonstration of anti-social behavior and must be modified.

I can almost believe that those who began this PC BS so many years ago had it in their minds that they would someday be able to use it as a standard to declare those who didn't buy into it as mentally ill and a threat to society with gun control and other enslavement plans in mind.

24 posted on 02/15/2013 3:52:36 AM PST by trebb (Allies no longer trust us. Enemies no longer fear us.)
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