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Many federal workers facing furloughs are veterans
Washington Post ^ | 13 Feb 13 | Steve Vogel

Posted on 02/15/2013 3:51:45 AM PST by SkyPilot

If the federal government is forced to furlough civilian employees in the event of sequestration, the burden will fall heavily on a population that Congress and the White House have vowed to support: veterans.

More than two out of five of the approximately 800,000 Department of Defense employees facing furloughs are veterans, Deputy Defense Secretary Ashton Carter said Wednesday. “Forty-four percent of them are veterans,” Carter told the House Armed Services Committee during a hearing on the potential effect of sequestration on the military. ”Very soon we’re going to have to furlough the great majority of them.”

The Pentagon expects to furlough its civilian employees for the maximum statutory length of 22 days between the beginning of April and the end of the year, Carter said. That will amount to 20 percent of their pay, he noted.

“So there’s a real human impact here,” Carter said. ” … We’re asking all those people who are furloughed to give back a fifth of their salary.”

Across the federal workforce of approximately 2 million employees, about 27.3 percent are veterans, according to new figures for fiscal 2011 from the Office of Personnel Management. More than a quarter of the veteran employees are disabled, according to the OPM.

The furloughs, together with a federal hiring freeze, no pay raises for three years, contractor layoffs...

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: budget; furlough; sequestration; veterans
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Related:

Pelosi: Congressional pay cut undermines dignity of the job

So the sequestration does not touch free Obama Phones, ObamaCare, Food Stamps, Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (ca$h welfare), or entitlement programs, but this is just fine and dandy.

Even if we completely zeroed out Defense (which is Constitutional by the way), this is what the future holds:

Much of the military's maintenance is now civlians. Many of the veterans, many of the disabled.

Obama said during the 3rd debate with Romney that "We have these things called aircraft carriers!" He didn't mention things like this:

Navy delays overhaul of aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln, citing budget concerns

And where is all the lip service from Obama and the Congressional Republicans about "helping employ our veterans"?

It is shameful what is going on. The hypocrisy, the Washington games, the duplicity.

1 posted on 02/15/2013 3:51:51 AM PST by SkyPilot
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To: SkyPilot

What a farce....They could get rid of 10% of these employees and no one would notice.


2 posted on 02/15/2013 3:56:14 AM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: SkyPilot

Have relatives working for DOD. Its all BS. They welcome the coming paid vacation. They know they will get to stay home and eventually, like last time they were furloughed, they will be paid for their time off.

Its the same for the “no raises” lie. Instead of raises they now get ever increasing “bonuses” each year. Eventually they will get raises again but the precedent of the end of the year bonus is now set so they will get both.

Its all kabuki theater. They are already on expedia.com planning what to do with a possible coming paid vacation and have already bought a boat with their “I don’t get raises so instead I get a bonus” bonus.


3 posted on 02/15/2013 4:14:36 AM PST by icwhatudo (Low taxes and less spending in Sodom and Gomorrah is not my idea of a conservative victory)
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To: Sacajaweau

Those employees and their families will notice being gotten rid of.

The article states that 40% of the work force are veterans.

Incredibly sad that the entire federal work force has been so demonized and dehumanized. Let them eat cake?


4 posted on 02/15/2013 4:15:46 AM PST by silverleaf (Age Takes a Toll: Please Have Exact Change)
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To: Sacajaweau
"What a farce....They could get rid of 10% of these employees and no one would notice." Why do I suspect you have absolutely no data or real information to back up that claim? What are you: a low-information voter? TC
5 posted on 02/15/2013 4:15:46 AM PST by Pentagon Leatherneck
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To: Sacajaweau

Pointing out that a certain number of these employees is BS.

Certainly they are, but they are no worse off than others facing sequestration furloughs.

What I find hard to believe is that Congressional pay will be cut and a billionaire like Nancy Pelosi thinks that is unfair.These people have no conscience.


6 posted on 02/15/2013 4:18:42 AM PST by Venturer
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To: SkyPilot

Many federal workers facing furloughs are veterans.
Many federal workers facing furloughs are single mothers.
Many federal workers facing furloughs are gay jewish illegal aliens.
There are a lot of federal workers so there are many of every possible group.


7 posted on 02/15/2013 4:22:27 AM PST by RadiationRomeo (Step into my mind and glimpse the madness that is me)
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To: SkyPilot

Well, the fact of the matter is that most of these veterans aren’t your blue collar enlisted guys working in government warehouses and factories but retired officers taking advantage of both their pension and a second government salary in some agency under veteran preference hiring practices. A lot of times, they are hired under independent contract too. It’s called “double dipping.”


8 posted on 02/15/2013 4:25:36 AM PST by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
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To: icwhatudo

that is what savings are for, vacations and boats and paying the bills if your pay is cut 20%
lucky your relatives have savings to enjoy a furlough, many do not...they must have done one helluva job last year to get a significant bonus.

Our experience for last year of constant overtime drudgery and govt travel impacting almost half our weekends (not a 9-5 job here) was a continued pay freeze, a $1000 bonus -$700 after taxes - and an $800 hike in MEDICARE premiums and starting 1 Feb, a hike of over $600 a year in monthly prescription copays

yeah yeah, I know, stop whining or quit ... just wanted to set the record straight on being overpaid via “bonuses”


9 posted on 02/15/2013 4:25:47 AM PST by silverleaf (Age Takes a Toll: Please Have Exact Change)
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To: Pentagon Leatherneck; Sacajaweau
You got that right: another "conservative" that has probably never served in uniform, has no idea how our defense works, could care less what will happen to our country's future if we lose critical capabilities. Those of us who have served and then have worked within the defense system afterward know just how thin an edge there is between keeping all those wonderful people in every other country slightly behind us in capabilities or learning how to be one of their provinces.

Really sick of the Ron Paul wing of the head-in-the-sand conservatives.

10 posted on 02/15/2013 4:29:26 AM PST by Chainmail (A simple rule of life: if you can be blamed, you're responsible.)
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To: Timber Rattler

many of those “double dippers” are our friends and co workers, and they started 2d jobs after 20-35 years of military service. Only fairly recently did the officers not give up half their pay if they chose to continue to work in agences and programs they understand well, and that they believe to be relevant to our national security

Many “dd’s” are retired Chiefs and other senior enlisted managers with pensions below $30K a year, also 45 yr old LTCs and 50 yr old Colonels working now as civilians - with the same honesty and work ethic - and using their expertise to keep programs flowing and going in the DoD. They are a force multiplier that keeps down the size (and cost to maintain) of the active duty military

Of course you probably think the better hire for these military-related programs and agencies like nuclear security and weapons development and acquisition would be a someone off the street without military experience


11 posted on 02/15/2013 4:36:17 AM PST by silverleaf (Age Takes a Toll: Please Have Exact Change)
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To: Timber Rattler
Oh aren't you the clever one: those of us who served over 20 years in uniform get a limited pension when we retire from the armed forces. If you'd felt like serving your country in a whole lot of nasty places and occasionally being shot at for a long time, you'd have that pension too. Working in the government or for the government afterward is an option that many of us follow. We have expertise and experience most of the rest of the world doesn't have and we are sought out because of that qualification. Kind of a great idea, isn't it? Or would you rather the government only hire amateurs fresh out of school?

Sounds like you're just jealous.

12 posted on 02/15/2013 4:39:07 AM PST by Chainmail (A simple rule of life: if you can be blamed, you're responsible.)
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To: SkyPilot

Take THAT!, useless Government Workers.


13 posted on 02/15/2013 4:51:28 AM PST by Wolfie
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To: Sacajaweau

Mom worked for Navy at Philly ship yard. NO ONE was fired no matter how little work was done.


14 posted on 02/15/2013 4:55:20 AM PST by huldah1776
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To: Wolfie

“Take THAT!”

Thanks for posting this so I didn’t have to.


15 posted on 02/15/2013 5:12:43 AM PST by irish_links
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To: silverleaf; Chainmail
many of those “double dippers” are our friends and co workers, and they started 2d jobs after 20-35 years of military service.

They're still government employees in a bloated government with bloated spending. Sorry, no sympathy here.

16 posted on 02/15/2013 5:13:10 AM PST by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
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To: Chainmail
Working in the government or for the government afterward is an option that many of us follow. We have expertise and experience most of the rest of the world doesn't have and we are sought out because of that qualification. Kind of a great idea, isn't it? Or would you rather the government only hire amateurs fresh out of school?

Typical government employee attitude..."we just do so much for you peons and know so much more than you."

17 posted on 02/15/2013 5:15:14 AM PST by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
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To: Sacajaweau
What a farce....They could get rid of 10% of these employees and no one would notice.

I see you're still piling on with the "I'm pissed at the world" words of "wisdom".

18 posted on 02/15/2013 5:19:01 AM PST by trebb (Allies no longer trust us. Enemies no longer fear us.)
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To: icwhatudo

The bonuses are not that much anymore. $400 or so and that depends on if you get a good eval for the year. $400 is not a raise by any stretch its is one time for the entire year. A “raise” in the civilian services is usually cost of living adjustments and this is across the board. There are also Time In Grade raises which is around 2% of your salary.

I don’t know where your family members work or their pay grade but that story about bonuses is inaccurate. The supervisors control the bonuses but they can give you time off instead of money. Not everyone gets a bonus.


19 posted on 02/15/2013 5:25:33 AM PST by USAF80
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To: silverleaf
Of course you probably think the better hire for these military-related programs and agencies like nuclear security and weapons development and acquisition would be a someone off the street without military experience

Only partly true. One of my big life choices was foregoing military service. Instead I got a scholarship to a public university. The tradeoff becomes apparent decades later when vets are more suited for defense work than I am. OTOH, they are less prepared for civilian work (e.g. product development, profit-making ventures) which I have done plenty of. The primary problem with civilian defense employment right now is there are way too many and do lots of churning with planning meetings and so forth. Not much actual work. The whole system requires a complete makeover with consequent cuts.

20 posted on 02/15/2013 5:27:15 AM PST by palmer (Obama = Carter + affirmative action)
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To: palmer

Vets will have a security clearance. This is the biggest drawback for a straight civilian. Your security clearance stays with you for life.

If you apply for a military contractor job, say Afghanistan, the first question they will ask is if you have a current security clearance.

The other reason is that vets know the system and can be up and running with minimal training.


21 posted on 02/15/2013 5:34:17 AM PST by USAF80
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To: silverleaf

“Incredibly sad that the entire federal work force has been so demonized and dehumanized. Let them eat cake?”

The simple fact is that the people that are required to pay for this (the “makers”) are being driven to financial ruin. If my town has 50 cops that are all Medal of Honor winners, and we can only afford 30 cops, then the laying off of 20 of them is no reflection of our gratitude for their service. We simply can’t afford this anymore.


22 posted on 02/15/2013 5:35:44 AM PST by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: Timber Rattler
Oh aren't you the clever one: those of us who served over 20 years in uniform get a limited pension when we retire from the armed forces. If you'd felt like serving your country in a whole lot of nasty places and occasionally being shot at for a long time, you'd have that pension too. Working in the government or for the government afterward is an option that many of us follow. We have expertise and experience most of the rest of the world doesn't have and we are sought out because of that qualification. Kind of a great idea, isn't it? Or would you rather the government only hire amateurs fresh out of school?

Sounds like you're just jealous.

23 posted on 02/15/2013 5:39:04 AM PST by Chainmail (A simple rule of life: if you can be blamed, you're responsible.)
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To: Chainmail
Or would you rather the government only hire amateurs fresh out of school?

Not only that, many on this forum think keeping ships steaming, planes flying, and Armies fielded happens by magic.   Just fire all Government DOD employees...that's the answer!

24 posted on 02/15/2013 5:45:15 AM PST by HalfFull ("The only thing new is the history you don't know.")
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To: Sacajaweau

I am sure the Veteran’s will thank you for your heartless statement. Sometimes I wonder about some of you and your anti-veteran attitude. Sad!


25 posted on 02/15/2013 5:46:00 AM PST by napscoordinator
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To: USAF80

Not a vet, but I got a clearance about 30 years ago. Realistically it is a week of work at most for whoever is doing the background investigation. Ought to take another week to review and approve (add a few dollars for private database access). The value of clearances is inflated mainly because the system is vastly less efficient than that. Takes many months and dollars to get cleared nowadays.


26 posted on 02/15/2013 5:47:35 AM PST by palmer (Obama = Carter + affirmative action)
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To: Timber Rattler

BS! Where are your statistics? That is not what I see. Most people I run into are E-5 with limbs missing. I can just see your glee in wanting them on the streets.


27 posted on 02/15/2013 5:48:12 AM PST by napscoordinator
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To: huldah1776

Mom worked for Navy at Philly ship yard. NO ONE was fired no matter how little work was done.

Wow! And to think that Philly Ship Yard is closed so your statement is wildly false.


28 posted on 02/15/2013 5:50:14 AM PST by napscoordinator
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To: SkyPilot

The Republicans need to get together and develop a consistent message on this and other issues. Every Republican politician should start referring to this in interviews, op-ed pieces, etc., not simply as “furloughs”, but as the “Obama Furloughs.” The public needs to hear that term again and again and again. As Rush Limbaugh has always said, “words mean things.”


29 posted on 02/15/2013 5:51:04 AM PST by GreenHornet
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To: USAF80

Thank you for that explanation. I am so sick of these idiots who know NOTHING about government service mouthing off LIES! I have never witnessed a bunch of liars in one place. I think some of them are DU’ers. Such nasty people.


30 posted on 02/15/2013 5:52:57 AM PST by napscoordinator
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To: icwhatudo

You are clueless. How would you feel being told to take a 20 percent pay cut.


31 posted on 02/15/2013 5:53:53 AM PST by Captain PJ (Are we there yet?)
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To: Sacajaweau

Maybe more than 10%. Only problem, the non-productive brown-nosers will be the last to leave. Gubmit SOP and DOD in particular.


32 posted on 02/15/2013 5:58:53 AM PST by X-spurt (Republic of Texas, Come and Take It!)
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To: Chainmail; Timber Rattler

Timber Rattler probably is a guy making six figures on the outside and just bashes the military folks. I did 24 years in the Navy. Retired as a Chief (E-7) and I make 2,100 dollars a month (after medical and taxes). I also work at the Naval Academy and am a hated government worker as many here say. I make 1,096 dollars every two weeks. I didn’t get a bonus this year. However, I MIGHT get a bonus of 400 dollars (but maybe not if the budget is bad). So overall I make around 4,000 a month. I guess I am a drain on FREEPERS.


33 posted on 02/15/2013 5:58:59 AM PST by napscoordinator
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To: Timber Rattler
..."we just do so much for you peons and know so much more than you."

I wouldn't have phrased that precisely that way (I am a gentleman) but that statement is nonetheless true: I do know a lot more than you do about artillery, combat, unit leadership (having been a commander), defense requirements and acquisition, research, development, and experimentation, small arms, optics, and a whole lot of other subjects you aren't cleared to know about. Simple fact.

Too bad you didn't get involved and help your country. You and many others are lucky that I did get involved and learn what I learned and successfully apply that knowledge. Keeps you from have to attend compulsary Chinese language classes.

A simple "thank you" is sufficient.

34 posted on 02/15/2013 6:10:41 AM PST by Chainmail (A simple rule of life: if you can be blamed, you're responsible.)
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To: napscoordinator
I guess I am a drain on FREEPERS

Depends. How many people do you support? How many people do they support? How many students (you are at the Naval Academy which has a purpose of teaching)? How much support per student? Is it cost effective?

Obviously with your small salary you are not a problem. But multiplied by millions it can be a problem. My own job and company is problematic because t's hard to measure productivity when far removed from the front line. The thing to keep in mind is how productive we can be personally while making sure whatever we are doing is truly useful.

35 posted on 02/15/2013 6:13:50 AM PST by palmer (Obama = Carter + affirmative action)
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To: Chainmail

Thank you. I would also point out that I have worked with many vets (although none were disabled) in the private sector. They can make great employees when considering work ethic and practical abilities, and there’s no reason to assume they must be placed into the defense industry as a general rule.


36 posted on 02/15/2013 6:17:41 AM PST by palmer (Obama = Carter + affirmative action)
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To: Captain PJ
"You are clueless. How would you feel being told to take a 20 percent pay cut."

I'll ask my federal employee wife. Or maybe one of my federal employee siblings. Or maybe my federal employee friend with whom my kids carpool to school.

Yes, it will be tough for a while for those who didn't put money away for a rainy day (luckily we did) but lets not kid ourselves... they are all being told in their meetings (by their department heads) to enjoy their time off (if it happens) and that the back pay will come eventually when things quiet down (just like last time). They are actually discussing whether the back pay will be hidden in the form of an even higher bonus at the end of the year or if it will in the form of extra vacation days that can then be "sold" back to the government.

37 posted on 02/15/2013 6:21:07 AM PST by icwhatudo (Low taxes and less spending in Sodom and Gomorrah is not my idea of a conservative victory)
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To: Chainmail
Or would you rather the government only hire amateurs fresh out of school?

IMHO, the government should hire a mix of people. The "amateurs" can be trained by "professionals" like yourself, and the results are usually good for everybody.

None of us were "professionals" when we started our careers.

38 posted on 02/15/2013 6:25:39 AM PST by Night Hides Not (The Tea Party was the earthquake, and Chick Fil A the tsunami...100's of aftershocks to come.)
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To: Chainmail

From a fellow vet: get over yourself.


39 posted on 02/15/2013 6:29:32 AM PST by Night Hides Not (The Tea Party was the earthquake, and Chick Fil A the tsunami...100's of aftershocks to come.)
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To: GreenHornet
I really don't think the Republicans care at this point. This is not the party of Ronald Reagan anymore. It has morphed into something completely void of leadership and moral clarity.

Since the election, they have been eager to deal with tax rates, the debt ceiling, amnesty for illegals, and National Applejuice Day....everything but the sequester that punishes our nation's military the most.

McConnell gave a pathetic "Read My Lips" tough guy speech to reporters yesterday, saying he doesn't care if the sequester cuts into our military and he can't be bothered anymore.

Rep Hunter (R-CA) and another Republican Congressman decided to beat the victim during the House Armed Services Committee hearings, telling the Joint Chiefs the deep cuts to the Defense Dept are partially "your fault!"

I kid you not.

40 posted on 02/15/2013 6:30:29 AM PST by SkyPilot
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To: icwhatudo

I’m a 4-year active duty veteran, and a 33-year federal (DOD) employee, retired sine 1997. My daughter is not a vet. She works for the same agency that I did. She recently finished her third deployment to Bagram Air Field Afghanistan. I hope this helps her avoid the axe that will fall on DOD’s neck.


41 posted on 02/15/2013 6:35:10 AM PST by Ax
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To: Night Hides Not
You need to settle down and apply some logic: I'm responding to someone who says that veterans who go on to serve in government or government support careers are not needed - and are really horrible "double dippers". I'm telling him that we are needed and even necessary. I did not say that we shouldn't have people coming straight out of civilian life too. We need a mix of people and viewpoints and varieties of talents.

As far as "getting over myself" goes - why? I have done an exceptional job of serving my country (including losing part of my right leg to a machinegun bullet) and I have done really great things to keep our country ahead of the world technologically. There are certainly many, many others that have done the same but I don't see any reason at all to hide my own light under a bushel basket.

Like many others, I didn't get a parade when I got back from Vietnam - quite the opposite, really. Now I am my own parade.

42 posted on 02/15/2013 6:40:16 AM PST by Chainmail (A simple rule of life: if you can be blamed, you're responsible.)
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To: kearnyirish2
We simply can’t afford this anymore.

If you look at the chart I posted by the Heratige Foundation, it confirms your concerns and mine that our fiscal path is disasterous. But take a good look at it again. Even if we took Defense spending down to nothing, we are ruined without serious, long range entitlement reform.

The Sequestration barely touches any associated entitlement spending - the the contrary - almost every program is completely exempt.

We seem to have money to dole out hand over fist for entitlements, but when it comes to defense (which is a Constitutional enterprise by the way), we suddenly adopt a "we're broke" mantra?

Defense is reeling from a triple round of blows: the $487 Billion cut spread out over ten years that began 2 years ago during Obama I, the Continuing Resolution which has frozen Pentagon accounts, and now the $600 Billion in Sequestration cuts.

These programs have plenty of money. They are not touched: Student Loans, Child and Dependent Care Tax Credit, Earned Icome Tax Credit, Pell Grants, Unemployment Insurance, Medicare, Head Start, Social Security Disability, SSI--Supplemental Security Income, Medicaid, Welfare/Public Assistance, Government Subsidized Housing, Food Stamps.

Where is the outcry from Conservatives on this? I swear, I think I have sometimes logged onto the website of Mother Jones.

43 posted on 02/15/2013 6:44:27 AM PST by SkyPilot
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To: napscoordinator
Lot of hypocrites on this thread I see...let's shrink the size of the federal government and get rid of excessive government employees, but only if they are not vets.

Puh-leeze! Do you know how many retired O-4s and above I see gaming the federal employee system each day with my own eyes? Hundreds, at least, if not thousands. They even have they own support networks and databases to help them move from cushy federal job to cushy federal job, which usually involve writing budgets, studies, and reports that are quickly filed and forgotten, when they are not attending federally sponsored conferences.

So spare me your outrage.

44 posted on 02/15/2013 6:52:07 AM PST by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
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To: napscoordinator
Timber Rattler probably is a guy making six figures on the outside and just bashes the military folks.

Bullcrap. My family is a military family and I guarantee that we have shed more blood for this country, going all the way back to the Revolutionary War, than you and yours.

But, the simple truth is that many of these folks have been gaming the system, and we can't afford it anymore.

45 posted on 02/15/2013 7:02:39 AM PST by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
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To: napscoordinator
I am so sick of these idiots who know NOTHING about government service mouthing off LIES!

It's amazing how loud you government employees can howl when anyone tosses a rock over your fence.

46 posted on 02/15/2013 7:04:02 AM PST by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
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To: Chainmail
Too bad you didn't get involved and help your country. You and many others are lucky that I did get involved and learn what I learned and successfully apply that knowledge. Keeps you from have to attend compulsary Chinese language classes.

Blah, blah, blah. Like I said above, I come from a military family that has shed gallons of blood for this country, and I have no use for sanctimonious government employees like you who like to wave the bloody shirt to justify your continued gorging at the government trough.

47 posted on 02/15/2013 7:07:01 AM PST by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
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To: Chainmail

Thanks for the additional info, and thanks for your service.


48 posted on 02/15/2013 7:09:01 AM PST by Night Hides Not (The Tea Party was the earthquake, and Chick Fil A the tsunami...100's of aftershocks to come.)
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To: Timber Rattler

It amazes me how wealthy people like yourself constantly have to bash the military folks who work for the government now. It is stunning.


49 posted on 02/15/2013 7:10:57 AM PST by napscoordinator
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To: USAF80
Your security clearance stays with you for life.

Yes and no, once you get you clearance you have to be reinvestigated every 5 years for TS and Q and every 10 for S and L. Also, atleast in the defense business, your clearance can be downgraded. I've seen folks go from TS to S simply because the contractor did not have work requiring a TS.

50 posted on 02/15/2013 7:14:43 AM PST by Tijeras_Slim
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