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Youthful Solar System Bodies Puzzle Evolutionary Scientists (article)
Institute for Creation Research ^ | Article posted on February 13, 2013. | Jake Hebert, Ph.D,

Posted on 02/15/2013 12:08:09 PM PST by fishtank

Youthful Solar System Bodies Puzzle Evolutionary Scientists by Jake Hebert, Ph.D. *

A feature story in a recent issue of the journal Nature described four solar system bodies that are puzzling to evolutionary scientists.1 Specifically, the article discussed the rings of Saturn, two of Saturn's moons (Enceladus and Titan), and Jupiter's moon Io. These four bodies all exhibit properties that cannot persist for billions of years.

The brightness of Saturn's rings is puzzling because after billions of years, they should have been darkened by dust from comets and asteroids. Yet these rings are still brilliantly beautiful.

Likewise, watery geysers erupting from the south pole of Saturn's moon Enceladus suggest that the moon is giving off a great deal of heat, yet this heat should "die down" relatively quickly. A mechanism proposed by Australian planetary scientist Craig O'Neill can theoretically provide enough release of heat to sustain the geysers for only about ten million years—far fewer than billions of years.

Secular researchers are also puzzled by the methane in Titan's atmosphere. Because sunlight degrades methane, Titan's atmospheric methane should have been depleted after only a few tens of millions of years. Yet methane is still present in Titan's atmosphere.

Likewise, the extreme volcanic activity on Jupiter's moon Io seems incapable of being sustained for extremely long periods of time.

Secular planetary scientists have proposed multiple hypotheses to explain these "anomalies." Many of these explanations assume that we just happen to be simultaneously viewing multiple short-lived astronomical phenomena. However, even secular scientists acknowledge that such a coincidence seems unlikely. For instance, O'Neill acknowledged that his explanation for the continuing geologic activity on Enceladus seems like "special pleading," since it requires researchers to view Enceladus at a special time in its history. Other proposed explanations for the persistence of these phenomena are also problematic.

Economy of explanation, or parsimony, is an important principle in science. A single hypothesis that can simultaneously explain multiple phenomena is more likely to be correct than multiple hypotheses needed to explain those same phenomena. Of course, there is such a hypothesis that could easily explain all four of these astronomical "anomalies." If the solar system were only thousands, rather than billions, of years old as implied by a straightforward reading of the Bible, then the continued brilliance of Saturn's rings, the continued presence of methane in Titan's atmosphere, and the continuing geological activity of Io and Enceladus would not be surprising—those would actually be expected.

In fact, creation scientists and astronomers have been pointing out such youthful features of our solar system for many years.2 Yet not only have secular scientists refused to even consider the possibility of a young, created solar system, they have discriminated against creation scientists.3

Secular planetary scientists would deny that there is any good reason to believe the universe is young. And yet their puzzlement over these four solar system bodies is a direct result of their insistence that the universe has been in existence for billions of years. Could their unwillingness to consider this possibility be due to other reasons?

If the universe really is just thousands of years old, then evolution is completely discredited. A slow evolutionary process needs billions of years in order even to appear plausible. If evolutionary processes are disqualified, then special creation is the only remaining logical alternative. But special creation requires a Creator. And many—even scientists who are supposedly logical, objective, and impartial—are simply unwilling to acknowledge their Creator's authority over their lives.

References

McKee, M. 2013. Caught in the Act. Nature. 493 (7434): 592-596.

For a good summary of such features, see Psarris, S. 2009. DVD. What You Aren't Being Told About Astronomy, Volume 1: Our Created Solar System. Creation Astronomy Media.

For instance, many suspect that scientist David Coppedge's employment at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory was terminated due to his belief in and support of biblical creation. See: At Pro-Darwin Blogs, Knee-Jerk Responses to the David Coppedge Intelligent Design Case Validate Discrimination Claims. Evolution News & Views. Posted on evolutionnews.org November 7, 2012, accessed February 11, 2013. Image credit: NASA/JPL - Caltech/Space Science Institute

* Dr. Hebert is Research Associate at the Institute for Creation Research and received his Ph.D. in Physics from the University of Texas at Dallas.

Article posted on February 13, 2013.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: creation
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From the article.

1 posted on 02/15/2013 12:08:21 PM PST by fishtank
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To: fishtank

2 posted on 02/15/2013 12:23:37 PM PST by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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Oh wait...is this about astronomy?


3 posted on 02/15/2013 12:24:23 PM PST by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: fishtank

Creation Scientists Puzzled by Science.


4 posted on 02/15/2013 12:26:01 PM PST by Kozak (The Republic is dead. I do not owe what we have any loyalty, wealth or sympathy.)
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To: fishtank
Secular researchers are also puzzled by the methane in Titan's atmosphere. Because sunlight degrades methane, Titan's atmospheric methane should have been depleted after only a few tens of millions of years. Yet methane is still present in Titan's atmosphere.

Space Cows......

5 posted on 02/15/2013 12:29:36 PM PST by Red Badger (Lincoln freed the slaves. Obama just got them ALL back......................)
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To: Red Badger

Everyone keep in mind this fact...

Uranus spins sideways.


6 posted on 02/15/2013 12:32:10 PM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: Kozak
Creation Scientists Puzzled by Science.

Yeppers; don't want to question science; just look at global warming.

7 posted on 02/15/2013 12:35:50 PM PST by celmak
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To: MrB

Not to mention the methane on Uranus............


8 posted on 02/15/2013 12:36:16 PM PST by Red Badger (Lincoln freed the slaves. Obama just got them ALL back......................)
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To: fishtank
When a person says this or that “should have happened” it indicates they think they have a much deeper understanding of the cosmos than they really do.

What if the planetary rings are a million years old instead of a billion or more? Does that make the cosmos or the earth only a few thousand years old?

Much of science is speculation but speculative error is also the error of the young earth people.

9 posted on 02/15/2013 12:36:34 PM PST by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
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To: fishtank

Mainstream astronomers are going to learn some new stuff that heretic astronomers have been hooting about for ages:

1. Saturn’s rings are recent
2. Io’s eruptions are electrical discharges
3. The sun (and all stars) is the remnant of a galactic Birkland current Z pinch
4. Big Bang, Dark Matter, Dark Energy and Black Hole are mathematical hallucinations.
5. Almost all life was wiped out in North America 10,000 years ago by a comet impact
6. The sun (and all stars) are electrical arc discharges not H-bombs
7. 99% of all matter in the Universe is in the plasma state and hence is electrical in nature
8. The “solar wind” would be more aptly named the solar electric current
9. Radiometric dating is heavily skewed in the presence of static electrical fields thus all geological and archaeological dating relying on isotope decay is unreliable.
10. Gravity has an electrical component

www.thunderbolts.info


10 posted on 02/15/2013 12:37:21 PM PST by Yollopoliuhqui
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To: Kozak

What if the universe is a computer simulation and that computer has only been running for 6,000 years....

Would that make god a computer programmer nerd that booted it up?

Also one thing about creationism is we know how to measure distances via triangulation and we know that there are objects further than 6,000 light years out there, in fact some of the furtherst objects are 14+ billion light years away, so did God create an entire universe and simulate the photons of such distant objects comming into the earth, if god can simulate far and fast moving photons then why actually build anything that is over 6,000 light years away, just simulate the photons.....

Why build any planets either, just “build it on the cheap” and put a holo projectuion screen around the earth sun moon system and simulate the universe around it....

Maybe god is a cheapskate...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjc0n4MiaUQ

The thing is God is immensly more vast than can even be fully and accurately explained by a book written by people who barely mastered fire. God could come down and explain himself to our brightest minds today and there would be a forrest of question marks hovering over their heads....

We have a hard time accurately relating information to primitives living in the amazon... Imagine a being several billion magnitudes more advanced than us trying to talk to stone age peoples about the nature of the universe......

Some details are bound to get “glossed over”, God was not going to go into boringly crazy detail about how he twisted several dimensions together to craft space time, he is going to give them the abdriged verson so he can get on to teaching them the lessions that matter, that is, how to treat one another.


11 posted on 02/15/2013 12:39:07 PM PST by GraceG
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To: BenLurkin

Er, who is that?


12 posted on 02/15/2013 12:41:02 PM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: OneWingedShark

I think she’s saying the same thing about you. :0)


13 posted on 02/15/2013 12:44:39 PM PST by COBOL2Java (Fighting Obama without Boehner & McConnell is like going deer hunting without your accordion)
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To: GraceG
I'd check with Slartibartfast...


14 posted on 02/15/2013 12:48:26 PM PST by COBOL2Java (Fighting Obama without Boehner & McConnell is like going deer hunting without your accordion)
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To: celmak
Yeppers; don't want to question science; just look at global warming.

You can question science all you want - make your observations, collect and present the data, and come up with a better theory. Science is a method of inquiry. Not all scientists practice good science - global warming is just one such example. But people claiming the earth is 6,000 years old and throwing up their arms every time they find a gap in the data and saying "God did it." is not science. Idiocy, yes, but not science.

15 posted on 02/15/2013 12:48:38 PM PST by Sirius Lee (All that is required for evil to advance is for government to do "something")
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To: count-your-change

I believe the current theory is that the rings are constantly being renewed by out gassing of moons, collisions among other smaller bodies etc. Not to mention the countless collisions that must be happening among the ring materials.

There are lots of organic compounds in space. None of it shakes my faith in God. Even Newton who was very much the pure scientist believed that comets were messengers from God. From what we’ve seen today, I’d have a hard time disagreeing with him. To me it says God wants us to get off our butts and start seriously thinking about how to prevent the impacts.


16 posted on 02/15/2013 12:49:05 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: OneWingedShark

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2568364/?ref_=tt_cl_t5


17 posted on 02/15/2013 12:49:23 PM PST by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: Yollopoliuhqui
The sun (and all stars) is the remnant of a galactic Birkland current Z pinch

Dang! That sounds painful!

18 posted on 02/15/2013 12:51:06 PM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: fishtank
Nonsense. This was debunked long ago.

Earth is not young. Accept it.

19 posted on 02/15/2013 12:51:29 PM PST by backwoods-engineer ("Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the gov officials committing it." -- K. Hoffmann)
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To: COBOL2Java

I’d check with Slartibartfast...

What if the earth is 6,000years old and the rest of the universe is Billions of years old....


20 posted on 02/15/2013 12:51:44 PM PST by GraceG
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To: fishtank
Likewise, the extreme volcanic activity on Jupiter's moon Io seems incapable of being sustained for extremely long periods of time.

Io is frictionally heated by the gravitational changes of its elliptical orbit close to massive Jupiter; that energy never "runs out."

This author is either an idiot or a liar. Probably some combination of the two.

21 posted on 02/15/2013 12:52:05 PM PST by Strategerist
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To: Yollopoliuhqui
6. The sun (and all stars) are electrical arc discharges not H-bombs

You are kookier than the original poster.

Of course electric and magnetic fields are important on the sun. But easily-made spectroscopic measurements (e.g., extinction of Lyman-Alpha lines) can confirm that there is fusion going on in the core of the sun.

Begone, kook.

22 posted on 02/15/2013 12:55:01 PM PST by backwoods-engineer ("Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the gov officials committing it." -- K. Hoffmann)
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To: fishtank

I’m sure that it puzzles priests, doctors, welders and cab drivers too. What the in bloody heck do “evolutionary scientists” have to do with astronomy? Evolutionary scientists would be ones who study evolution, right? Evolution only deals with the diversity of life on earth. Evolutionary scientists would have no great expertise on the age of objects in the solar system, at least not any more than anyone else.


23 posted on 02/15/2013 12:55:23 PM PST by stremba
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To: COBOL2Java
I think she’s saying the same thing about you. :0)

LOL - Maybe.
Though I will admit to not knowing/recognizing a lot of celebrities.

24 posted on 02/15/2013 12:55:58 PM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: GraceG
What if the earth is 6,000years old and the rest of the universe is Billions of years old....

Blame the mice!

25 posted on 02/15/2013 12:56:36 PM PST by COBOL2Java (Fighting Obama without Boehner & McConnell is like going deer hunting without your accordion)
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To: Yollopoliuhqui; KC_Lion
Mainstream astronomers are going to learn some new stuff that heretic astronomers have been hooting about for ages:

1. Saturn’s rings are recent

2. Io’s eruptions are electrical discharges

3. The sun (and all stars) is the remnant of a galactic Birkland current Z pinch

4. Big Bang, Dark Matter, Dark Energy and Black Hole are mathematical hallucinations.

5. Almost all life was wiped out in North America 10,000 years ago by a comet impact

6. The sun (and all stars) are electrical arc discharges not H-bombs

7. 99% of all matter in the Universe is in the plasma state and hence is electrical in nature

8. The “solar wind” would be more aptly named the solar electric current

9. Radiometric dating is heavily skewed in the presence of static electrical fields thus all geological and archaeological dating relying on isotope decay is unreliable.

10. Gravity has an electrical component

www.thunderbolts.info

And this is the source of all that electricity!!!!


26 posted on 02/15/2013 12:57:06 PM PST by GraceG
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To: stremba

Ah... you would think so...

but perhaps that’s not their focus.

Perhaps their focus is more... religious?


27 posted on 02/15/2013 12:58:52 PM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: cripplecreek

Kevlar umbrellas for the Russians. Now there’s a money maker but remember you heard it here first.


28 posted on 02/15/2013 12:59:43 PM PST by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
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To: fishtank

“The brightness of Saturn’s rings is puzzling because after billions of years, they should have been darkened by dust from comets and asteroids. Yet these rings are still brilliantly beautiful.”

Are these people really this stupid? The moon is covered in dust and last I checked it reflects light just fine. Where in “God’s plan” does it indicate that dust is flat black? Stuff like this just makes creationists look stupid. My God did create the universe but he is not a Luddite. When “creation science” beliefs are so clearly ignorant it makes it easier for people to doubt other religious teachings and thought. People like this are truly doing Satan’s PR work.


29 posted on 02/15/2013 1:01:34 PM PST by azcap (Who is John Galt ? www.conservativeshirts.com)
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To: fishtank

“The brightness of Saturn’s rings is puzzling because after billions of years, they should have been darkened by dust from comets and asteroids. Yet these rings are still brilliantly beautiful.”

Are these people really this stupid? The moon is covered in dust and last I checked it reflects light just fine. Where in “God’s plan” does it indicate that dust is flat black? Stuff like this just makes creationists look stupid. My God did create the universe but he is not a Luddite. When “creation science” beliefs are so clearly ignorant it makes it easier for people to doubt other religious teachings and thought. People like this are truly doing Satan’s PR work.


30 posted on 02/15/2013 1:01:52 PM PST by azcap (Who is John Galt ? www.conservativeshirts.com)
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To: stremba
I’m sure that it puzzles priests, doctors, welders and cab drivers too. What the in bloody heck do “evolutionary scientists” have to do with astronomy? Evolutionary scientists would be ones who study evolution, right? Evolution only deals with the diversity of life on earth. Evolutionary scientists would have no great expertise on the age of objects in the solar system, at least not any more than anyone else.

Notwithstanding the scenario where an evolutionary scientist was married to an astronomer; might make for some interesting pillow talk. :-)

Kidding aside, I think it would be productive for experts in such disparate disciplines to collaborate on that kind of an endeavor.

31 posted on 02/15/2013 1:03:36 PM PST by COBOL2Java (Fighting Obama without Boehner & McConnell is like going deer hunting without your accordion)
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To: GraceG
Those GIFS ARE GREAT!


32 posted on 02/15/2013 1:07:16 PM PST by KC_Lion (Build the America you want to live in at your address, and keep looking up.-Sarah Palin)
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To: GraceG

Maybe you’re actually in a lab with lots of wires running into your brain simulating reality. By pressing this secret button you will be directed to make a response.


33 posted on 02/15/2013 1:13:37 PM PST by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
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To: Strategerist
Io is frictionally heated by the gravitational changes of its elliptical orbit close to massive Jupiter; that energy never "runs out."

There is no such thing as perpetual motion. The energy has to come from somewhere. In this particular case, I vote Jupiter. I would imagine it could probably be calculated how much rotational energy Io steals from Jupiter with each orbit.

34 posted on 02/15/2013 1:22:21 PM PST by zeugma (Those of us who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.)
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To: BenLurkin

Not really. All you have to do is ask is why is start light, from the galaxies in our LOCAL GROUP, taking MILLIONS of years to reach us.

As soon as you hear the “answers” coming from Jake and his friends, you will know that this has nothing to do with Astronomy.


35 posted on 02/15/2013 1:28:35 PM PST by SengirV
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To: count-your-change

Maybe you’re actually in a lab with lots of wires running into your brain simulating reality. By pressing this secret button you will be directed to make a response.

I keep pressing the button and NOTHING happens...

Unless that is what was supposed to happen....

Time to go back loooking at my belly button.....


36 posted on 02/15/2013 1:35:46 PM PST by GraceG
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To: zeugma

Correct, there is no perpetual motion. But a couple billions years of gravity induced friction goes a LONG way.


37 posted on 02/15/2013 1:42:37 PM PST by SengirV
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To: fishtank

The article says “should .... yet” a lot. Shows the muddy thinking that has become common.
The universe “should” not do anything. The universe does what it does, and it’s up to us mortals to figure it out - but we don’t seem to be doing a very good job of it.

There are no anomalies in the universe. The universe is working quite well the way it always has.


38 posted on 02/15/2013 2:11:03 PM PST by I want the USA back
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To: Sirius Lee; metmom
But people claiming the earth is 6,000 years old and throwing up their arms every time they find a gap in the data and saying "God did it." is not science. Idiocy, yes, but not science.

And people claiming that the earth is millions of years old from data they can't repeat is religion; you can't "prove" either theory. And the question is, "How did God do it?" not "It happened from nothing."

39 posted on 02/15/2013 3:31:50 PM PST by celmak
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To: Sirius Lee; metmom
But people claiming the earth is 6,000 years old and throwing up their arms every time they find a gap in the data and saying "God did it." is not science. Idiocy, yes, but not science.

And people claiming that the earth is millions of years old from data they can't repeat is religion; you can't "prove" either theory. And the question is, "How did God do it?" not "It happened from nothing."

40 posted on 02/15/2013 3:32:16 PM PST by celmak
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To: fishtank
Economy of explanation, or parsimony, is an important principle in science. A single hypothesis that can simultaneously explain multiple phenomena is more likely to be correct than multiple hypotheses needed to explain those same phenomena.

There is also the requirement that the hypothesis have predictive explanatory power. It must be able to give a further explanation for something we don't know yet, but on investigation, turns out to be the case.

"ITWASALIENS" and "GODDIDIT" do not apply.

41 posted on 02/15/2013 3:46:51 PM PST by Oztrich Boy (I think, therefore I am what I yam, and that's all I yam - "Popeye" Descartes)
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To: GraceG

Sorry. Your God would be a sick practical Jokester. To give us reason then make a universe that mocks it.
I prefer a God who created a wonderous ancient gigantic universe, with rules that over the ages miraculously led to us, one step at a time....


42 posted on 02/15/2013 4:11:51 PM PST by Kozak (The Republic is dead. I do not owe what we have any loyalty, wealth or sympathy.)
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To: Kozak

I prefer a God who created a wonderous ancient gigantic universe, with rules that over the ages miraculously led to us, one step at a time....

As do I, I was using absurdity to illustrate a point earlier!


43 posted on 02/15/2013 5:04:31 PM PST by GraceG
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To: stremba

Creationists think all science is “evolution” as soon as it disagrees with yheir wacky cosmology. Linguistics, anthropology, archeology, geology, astronomy, physics, et.al..


44 posted on 02/15/2013 5:16:40 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
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To: Oztrich Boy
There is also the requirement that the hypothesis have predictive explanatory power. It must be able to give a further explanation for something we don't know yet, but on investigation, turns out to be the case.

"ITWASALIENS" and "GODDIDIT" do not apply.

45 posted on 02/15/2013 5:21:21 PM PST by GraceG
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To: GraceG

Uh no absurdity surprises me on these Creation Science threads.


46 posted on 02/15/2013 5:32:17 PM PST by Kozak (The Republic is dead. I do not owe what we have any loyalty, wealth or sympathy.)
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To: Kozak
Uh no absurdity surprises me on these Creation Science threads.

Then why go on these threads?

47 posted on 02/16/2013 12:31:23 PM PST by celmak
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To: celmak

For the laughs


48 posted on 02/16/2013 2:04:40 PM PST by Kozak (The Republic is dead. I do not owe what we have any loyalty, wealth or sympathy.)
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To: Kozak
For the laughs

Yeppers, them be a bunch o' stoopid peeple hear:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/155003/Hold-Creationist-View-Human-Origins.aspx

Jst looky hear at them number of howmany think "Humans evolved, God had no part in process."

49 posted on 02/16/2013 5:09:26 PM PST by celmak
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To: celmak

Never said God had nothing to do with it. Evolution and a belief in God are not incompatible.


50 posted on 02/16/2013 5:52:01 PM PST by Kozak (The Republic is dead. I do not owe what we have any loyalty, wealth or sympathy.)
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