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Cardinal Dolan finds common ground with Obama on guns
Catholic News Agency ^ | Feb 20, 2013 / 02:00 am | CNS

Posted on 02/22/2013 3:08:52 PM PST by haffast

Cardinal Timothy M. Dolan of New York highlighted President Barack Obama's “call for sensible steps on gun control,” noting that it is an area of agreement for the two leaders.

“I found myself nodding in agreement when the President said, '….Overwhelming majorities of Americans – Americans who believe in the Second Amendment – have come together around common-sense reform, like background checks that will make it harder for criminals to get their hands on a gun,'” the cardinal said.

In a Feb. 15 post on his blog, “The Gospel in the Digital Age,” he explained that he was “very much in favor” of legislation passed by New York last month that constituted “the most comprehensive gun control bill in the country.”

snip

“The Holy See has continuously been a strong voice in opposition to international arms trading, the world’s version of gun control,” he noted.

In addition, he pointed out that the U.S. bishops have “for decades supported measures to get handguns off the streets, and to ban assault weapons.”

He reminded his readers that he is no expert on the particulars of gun control legislation, but he maintained that “there can be no denying that, in the wake of Newtown, Aurora, Blacksburg, Tucson, Columbine, and almost countless other horrific and senseless deaths by guns, that something must be done.”

Gun control is “part of building a Culture of Life,” the cardinal explained, “of doing what we can to protect and defend human life.”

He said easy access to guns “has contributed towards a Culture of Death, where human life and dignity are cheapened by the threat of violence.”

snip

(Excerpt) Read more at catholicnewsagency.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: banglist; catholic; conclave; guncontrol; pope; secondamendment; vatican
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“I have a long list of things to pray for this Lent,” Cardinal Dolan said. “Asking God’s help that our elected representatives in Washington and in state houses across the country have the courage and the wisdom to pass meaningful and effective gun control bills, will certainly have a prominent place in those prayers.”

Apologia for Church in Vatican Radio gun rights attack rings hollow
Eaminer.com ^ | January 22, 2013 | David Codrea

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2981061/posts?page=1

Cardinal Dolan will be heading to Rome to elect a new pope.

1 posted on 02/22/2013 3:09:02 PM PST by haffast
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To: haffast

Has Cardinal Dolan been alive long enough to remember what happened to a bunch of Jews in Europe almost a century ago, or does he just not care?


2 posted on 02/22/2013 3:11:45 PM PST by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: haffast

Yes, yes, Cardinal.
Jesus himself always tried to stay politically active and pass laws /s

PS
BTW ALL, FR is acting wonky again here.


3 posted on 02/22/2013 3:15:51 PM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: elkfersupper

Dolan is an apparent mental midget who would ask the great Gov to ban stones and strips of cloth.

I say we ban the jawbone of an ass /S


4 posted on 02/22/2013 3:18:40 PM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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.
.
.

- “Sell your robe and buy a sword.”

I smell a bailout/sellout: :

- “Sell your soul and give me all your money.”

.
.
.


5 posted on 02/22/2013 3:23:47 PM PST by devolve ( -------- -- --It is not where Obama was born that is the problem - it is where he*s living now--)
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To: haffast
Cardinal Dolan, do you understand communism? He wants to pick and choose what the government can ban, control and command. Take our guns, but leave church hospitals alone! Doesn't he realize that if you offer them a bite they take the whole enchilada?

Either he is a totalitarian marxist or a dumbass. This sh!teater better not be elected pope.

6 posted on 02/22/2013 3:25:45 PM PST by Wyrd bi ful ard (Gone Galt, 11/07/12)
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No surprise. The US Bishops lean heavily toward social justice.


7 posted on 02/22/2013 3:29:42 PM PST by what's up
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To: haffast

He appears to be sadly naive in regard to the political agenda at the root of this (in the same way various bishops were gullibly in favor of Obamacare before the actual impact of the law on the Church became apparent). Amazing how many churchmen still fail to see the connection between creeping government control, socialism and the consequent loss of religious freedom.

Frankly, I wish bishops would keep a low profile in regard to topics unrelated to Church teaching. Often they do more harm than good when they opine on political matters.


8 posted on 02/22/2013 3:42:02 PM PST by BlatherNaut
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To: elkfersupper

He probably doesn’t want boys to be able to protect themselves


9 posted on 02/22/2013 3:45:32 PM PST by nixonsnose (you never know how much pee splatters until you are standing at the urinal in flip flops.)
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To: haffast

Is there a good reason this freak has not been removed from his position? Is this one of those jobs where you can’t be fired?

Just toss him out and be done with it.


10 posted on 02/22/2013 3:47:16 PM PST by soycd
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To: Wyrd bið ful aræd

I am leaning toward compassionate dumb ass.


11 posted on 02/22/2013 4:01:13 PM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: haffast

Just proves that all the Catholic Bishops/Cardinals are crypto-Marxists.


12 posted on 02/22/2013 4:16:22 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum ("Somebody has to be courageous enough to stand up to the bullies." --Dr. Ben Carson)
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To: mylife

Hey mylife! I’ve gotta post and run but had to tell you, I bought a sweet little .22 the other day, a Marlin XT-22.
The place was packed! Americans voting with their wallets?
Great to have FR back, huh?

Here’s to those who wish us well,
Those who don’t can go to ... DU/


13 posted on 02/22/2013 4:20:37 PM PST by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: All armed conservatives.)
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To: haffast

I have found no common ground at all with Barack Hussein Obama.

Obama wants to tax the rich at a higher rate for “fairness” even if that means less tax collected. I feel no envy toward those with higher incomes than my own.

Obama wants to compel religious people to violate their religious values by forcing them to pay for abortions for employees, in violation of the First Amendment and of the most fundamental of human rights. I feel respect for the sincere religious beliefs of others so long as those believers do not actively interfere with the rights of others.

Obama wants to punish success and reward failure, transferring wealth from those who produce to those who choose not to be productive “when you spread the wealth around . . .” I believe that those who produce wealth help others by virtue of their success and generate more jobs when they spend the wealth they have created, and even if they didn’t help others, it’s still their wealth and not mine.

Obama wants a federal takeover of our medical system. I believe that freedom is always more efficient than a command economy.

Obama wants to “end” the wars in Iraq, in Afghanistan, and on terror. I want to win those wars so that they end in victory and not defeat.

I sometimes think that if I agreed with Obama on even one issue, I would automatically reconsider my position. To agree with someone who is universally wrong and usually evil would cause a great deal of concern. I don’t know if I would change my opinion if I found Obama agreeing with me - it’s never happened in more than four terrible years of watching him destroy my country.


14 posted on 02/22/2013 4:24:45 PM PST by Pollster1
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To: tumblindice
Hi there!
Did you find some ammo?

I want that Mossberg MVP

Sure wish they would make that in .308 using FAL mags

15 posted on 02/22/2013 4:25:43 PM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: elkfersupper

I’m here in NYC/NJ and can tell you I never liked this ambitious, oily priest. Never! The day Cardinal O’Connor died was a sad day for me.


16 posted on 02/22/2013 4:27:50 PM PST by miss marmelstein ( Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: haffast; elkfersupper

If he doesn’t remember, at least he could read some history.

Here is a new thread featuring a new essay and YouTube video titled “Democide: Socialism, Tyranny, Guns and Freedom.” The video has had 12,000 views in the first two days.

I helped to produce the video. It’s an effort to lift the debate from Newtown “small ball” to the big leagues of state democide, where these efforts at “reasonable and commonsense” gun control laws always lead to death by the million in the end.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2990161/posts?page=42


17 posted on 02/22/2013 4:44:41 PM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: haffast

Sorry,Cardinal...this is one thing I won’t be rendering unto Caesar.


18 posted on 02/22/2013 4:50:16 PM PST by Gay State Conservative ("Progressives" toss the word "racist" around like chimps toss their feces)
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To: All

It’s merely his opinion on a political issue. It is not a teaching on faith or morals and is not binding for Catholics.

His rationale is not well thought out and shows why clergy should stick to issues of faith and morals...such as saving souls and abortion.


19 posted on 02/22/2013 4:51:52 PM PST by rbmillerjr (We have No Opposition to Obama's Socialist Agenda)
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To: haffast
Sorry Cardinal Dolan, I find NO common ground with someone who wants to enslave me.

5.56mm

20 posted on 02/22/2013 4:59:06 PM PST by M Kehoe
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To: elkfersupper

Cardinal Dolan = Martin Niemoller in cassock. Mostly Dolan’s just hoping those opposed to freedom and liberty take him and his co-religionists last.


21 posted on 02/22/2013 5:01:20 PM PST by T-Bird45 (It feels like the seventies, and it shouldn't.)
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To: haffast

Yeah, well Cardinal Dolan, that assclown will force you to abort babies...and keep you from teaching that sodomy is a sin....

So you better consider thanking God there IS a second amendment.


22 posted on 02/22/2013 5:27:51 PM PST by SoFloFreeper
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To: haffast

The left has learned from the Soviet experience. This time they are simply going to co-opt the church and make it their willing handmaiden.


23 posted on 02/22/2013 5:30:18 PM PST by Trod Upon (The Second Amendment acknowledges our inherent right to revolt if tyrannized.)
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To: haffast

With all respect to my freedom loving Catholic brothers in Christ...

As a radical Calvinist....why should I give a rats testicle what a capon priest for a clown costumed gang of rascals and thieves thinks? In the old world, these guys’ predecessors tried to burn my fathers at the stake.

But oh wait. My grandaddies were armed with BOTH the sword and the Word. Christian liberty and political liberty then ensued quite beyond the control of kings and cardinals.

The Catholic church as an organization has NEVER been an advocate for true liberty. Quite the opposite. Blind ignorant obedience to Pope and to Caesar has been their demand since Constantine.

Had the Catholic hierarchy caught and burned Luther and the German landsmen who supported him, we would still be bending knee to men, buying indulgences, hearing Latin masses memorized by illiterate priests, and if caught with a heretic common vernacular language Bible, would be officially damned then flayed.

Let Mr. Dolan lick what boots he may....and screw him.

Any Catholic that stands for liberty and arms is a brother. Any who do not....a foe. It is a duty we owe to our fathers and our God.


24 posted on 02/22/2013 5:42:13 PM PST by Lowell1775
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To: haffast

Just because he hears confessions that doesn’t mean criminals are going to confess gun ownership to the state.
His eminence better lay off the Absolut-ion..


25 posted on 02/22/2013 5:49:02 PM PST by mosesdapoet ("It's a sin to tell a lie", in telling others that , got me my nickname .Ex Chi" mechanic"ret)
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To: SoFloFreeper

Amen Brother. Catholics have nothing in common with Obama. Cardinal dolan should stick to cleansing the Church of Pedophiles and leave the guns to the lay people.


26 posted on 02/22/2013 5:59:21 PM PST by Venturer
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To: Lowell1775

Then we stand together for liberty and arms.

As far as burning at the stake go, Medieval times were extremely dark in this regard. It is a stain on the times as well as the Catholic Church.

But, it happened many hundreds of years ago. Just as the Protestant witch burnings in America and in various European countries.

John Calvin put his doctrinal enemy Servetus to death at the stake and fire.

Now we move on and have many secular enemies, jihadist enemies, religious liberty enemies etc to fight. We have our differences in doctrine, but we have Unity in obedience to only Jesus Christ.


27 posted on 02/22/2013 6:32:53 PM PST by rbmillerjr (We have No Opposition to Obama's Socialist Agenda)
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To: elkfersupper

Do Catholics ever read the Bible? It is always confusing to me when I hear that the Pope claims something opposite from what the Word of God says.


28 posted on 02/22/2013 6:51:43 PM PST by Truth2012
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To: Truth2012

LOL.

Yeah, we read the Bible just like you guys do. And it is throughout the Liturgy in the Mass.

What did you think you heard the Pope say that wasn’t consistent with the Word of God?


29 posted on 02/22/2013 7:10:10 PM PST by rbmillerjr (We have No Opposition to Obama's Socialist Agenda)
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To: haffast

Hence why i left the catholic church a long time ago.


30 posted on 02/22/2013 7:18:21 PM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave ofo attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: Lowell1775

Good post and I say that as a fellow, unabashed Calvinist and descendent of Huguenots.


31 posted on 02/22/2013 8:25:22 PM PST by Graybeard58 (_.. ._. .. _. _._ __ ___ ._. . ___ ..._ ._ ._.. _ .. _. .)
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To: Lowell1775

“The Catholic church as an organization has NEVER been an advocate for true liberty. Quite the opposite. Blind ignorant obedience to Pope and to Caesar has been their demand since Constantine”

Like all other faiths the Catholic Church has good pastors and bad pastors.

But let remind you that the Catholic Church came before the Gospels. Without the Catholic Church there would be no Bible.

Without the Catholic Church there would be no Western Civilization. For over 2,000 years the Catholic Church has
stood the test of time because it’s doctrine comes from the Holy Bible, not a show of hands like most protestant faiths.

http://www.amazon.com/Catholic-Church-Built-Western-Civilization/dp/1596983280


32 posted on 02/22/2013 9:37:02 PM PST by NKP_Vet
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To: haffast
This guy sounds almost as bad as that Michael Pfleger joker in Chicago.


33 posted on 02/22/2013 10:18:06 PM PST by VeniVidiVici (Obama's vision - No Job is a Good Job)
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To: Pollster1
Obama wants to tax the rich at a higher rate for “fairness” even if that means less tax collected. I feel no envy toward those with higher incomes than my own.

And it's not like they're not being browbeaten about it already anyway.

34 posted on 02/22/2013 10:37:12 PM PST by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: haffast

Another example of what you get when “religious leaders” stray from the calling and get involved in unrelated areas - support for the Godless side of the aisle that they can subjugate the believers. One of the main reasons I decided to eschew religion and to go non-denominational and stick with Biblical teachings undiluted by those who lounge in a life of ease in their religious “callings”.


35 posted on 02/23/2013 5:03:48 AM PST by trebb (Allies no longer trust us. Enemies no longer fear us.)
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To: rbmillerjr

Luke 22:36 comes to mind. He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag. And if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.”

Also Peter drew his sword and cut off an ear. He was admonished by Jesus but just the same, he carried a sword.

I think God means us to be armed - just not foolish about it.


36 posted on 02/23/2013 5:04:46 AM PST by New Jersey Realist (America: home of the free because of the brave)
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To: New Jersey Realist

I agree with what you are saying. I think talking about saving souls (Faith) and Life issues (morals) is appropriate.

Talking about gun control is well beyond the area of expertise of clergy. As far as that goes, so is health care.

It may by a care issue, but clergy simply don’t have the complex knowledge to deal with such issues. The Catholic Church got outmaneuvered again and again during the health care debates.

They should have stuck to the “religious freedom” aspects of health care.


37 posted on 02/23/2013 8:36:04 AM PST by rbmillerjr (We have No Opposition to Obama's Socialist Agenda)
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To: trebb
A few excerpts that sums things up for me:

The Creation of the Religious Left

“When people reflect on the Christian church they generally picture a fellowship of believers whose focus is on *spiritual growth*, *spreading the faith*, and *good works*. These were the church’s primary goals until the last few decades. There is a wide gulf, however, between yesterday’s goals and today’s agenda. The American mainline churches the most prominent of which are the United Methodists, the United Church of Christ, the Presbyterian Church (USA), the Episcopalians, the American Baptists, many Catholic leaders and orders, and the Lutheran Church in America - have realigned their priorities in a frighteningly *political* direction.”

“A growing percentage of Christian leadership has abandoned its role as *spiritual shepherd* because it no longer considers humanity’s *spiritual welfare* its greatest concern. A great many bishops have rejected *winning souls* in favor of *influencing political issues*. Church bureaucracy now neglects traditional mission in favor of *lobbying for political causes*. In fact, certain sectors of the church now make it their primary business to manufacture, widely distribute, and finance a radical agenda by which they hope *to save the world*. In doing so, they have created the *Religious Left*.”
http://cmpage.org/betrayal/chapt1.html

38 posted on 02/23/2013 9:27:20 AM PST by haffast (Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very new at all. -Abe Lincoln)
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To: rbmillerjr
I agree with what you are saying. I think talking about saving souls (Faith) and Life issues (morals) is appropriate.

See post #38

39 posted on 02/23/2013 9:31:24 AM PST by haffast (Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very new at all. -Abe Lincoln)
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To: haffast

Absolute agreement.

Two primary problems: 1)too much emphasis on social justice vs. winning sould 2) believing that the government is the answer vs. church charity.

When Christian Churches went down the road of believing that the government was compassion, they are agreeing and comforting the “principalities” that do evil.


40 posted on 02/23/2013 10:03:06 AM PST by rbmillerjr (We have No Opposition to Obama's Socialist Agenda)
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To: rbmillerjr

I get what you are saying. It totally astounds me how the clergy,the GOP, and interestingly enough the blacks don’t know how to get the better of liberals. It makes sense to us as FRiends but ‘they’ just don’t get it. For instance: black people know that gun control laws were aimed at them thoughout American history yet the rats are doing it now with impunity. Blacks just will not hold the rats accountable. Amazing that they just enjoy the plantation that much.


41 posted on 02/23/2013 10:07:26 AM PST by New Jersey Realist (America: home of the free because of the brave)
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To: NKP_Vet

Don’t get in my way on the road to heaven....I won’t get in yours.

No time to re-argue what God, the sword and empty pews has already decided.

Go with God and go armed.


42 posted on 02/24/2013 2:34:39 PM PST by Lowell1775
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To: Lowell1775

“No time to re-argue what God, the sword and empty pews has already decided”

Tell over a BILLION CATHOLICS about those EMPTY PEWS.
Write Jimmy Swaggard and let him know how empty those pews are.


43 posted on 02/24/2013 5:00:44 PM PST by NKP_Vet
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To: NKP_Vet

Peace friend. Peace. Your argument is not with me.

Me and mine will let you be Catholic and follow your church precepts until Hell falls.

Obama will not. He makes war on you.

Practicing Catholics like conservative churches are the new Jews for the next Holocaust if you haven’t figured it out. Catholics just happen to be the biggest nail that needs hammered. First marginalize you....done. Then mock you....done. Generate hatred against you....done. Isolate you from your natural support....done, which by the way you are doing a great job of by pissing my kind off. And then comes the train rides to the east for resettlement while classic musics plays in the background.

Dolan is not alone in his call to surrender arms. The US Council of Bishops has long been on record as favoring guns for police and military only. Other Catholic bodies and personages saying the same thing include Tommaso Di Ruzza at the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace.

Gun control: Church firmly, quietly opposes firearms for civilians http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1100159.htm

“However, (while) armed defense is something appropriate for nations, not for all individual citizens in a state where rule of law is effective” said Di Ruzza.

Hmmmmm. Like my fathers, I and my my little Bible church will continue, using one of your terms, “with a show of hands” in conformance with God’s will, to be dissenters still from the will of our “betters” who have their private line to God.

Rome it seems is eager to grovel before yet another new Caesar. Have your BILLION Catholic brethern in their brimming pews and absent the burden of a Baptist Swaggart’s sin.....a send a message to your leadership.

FREEDOM!

But that isn’t the way the Catholic Church works is it? Rules come down with the claimed force of God. Gee, makes it kind of hard to argue policy doesn’t it?

Catholics will have to make an INDIVIDUAL choice in this or surrender their arms when the new Caesar’s call comes.

Sounds like dissent to me. Sounds like being Christian.


44 posted on 02/24/2013 7:53:43 PM PST by Lowell1775
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To: Lowell1775

The Catholic Church has been putting up with heretics and forces of evil that want to destroy the Church for the last 2,000 years. Jesus predicted every bit of this. He said if they hate me they will hate you. The Catholic Church started the pro-life movement in this country when abortion was ruled legal. 99% of protestant churches went along with the ruling. Protestant churches allow homosexuals and women to become “pastors”. Still many protestant faiths could care less about protecting unborn children. The Catholic Church does not base it’s doctrine on a show of hands like the majority of protestant faiths, it bases it’s doctrine on the never-changing Holy Bible. For the first 1,600 years the only Christians were Catholic. That is the way God intended his Church to be. Catholic. The Catholic Church is the truth whether you want to acknowledge it or not. It is the only faith started by Jesus himself. All other started by a mortal man. End of story.


45 posted on 02/24/2013 8:40:05 PM PST by NKP_Vet
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To: NKP_Vet

And Chairman Obummber hates the Catholic Church because the Catholic Church is the truth. No abortion of any kind, no sodomite priests, no ordination of women. Obummer bit off more than he can chew when he went to war with the Catholic Church. The Supreme Court will strike down his assault on religious freedom. Mark it down. By the way I don’t like Dolan. I consider him a politician. I prefer bishops like Cardinal Raymond Burke and Archbishop Chaput, both as conservative as they come and they would not up with heretics like Cuomo, Biden and the rest of the cafeteria catholic politicians. They would excommunicate their sorry asses.


46 posted on 02/24/2013 8:48:49 PM PST by NKP_Vet
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To: rbmillerjr
John Calvin put his doctrinal enemy Servetus to death at the stake and fire.

Not accurate. While he did exert considerable influence in Geneva and appeared as an expert witness against Servetus at the trial, Calvin was not a member of the City Council and did not have the power or authority to personally impose a death sentence for what was then a capital crime. Calvin actually sought, unsuccessfully, to mitigate the death sentence to the less painful beheading. It should also be noted that in the spirit of the age Servetus had already been sentenced to death by the Roman Catholic inquisition.

Calvin and Servetus. It is sometimes said that John Calvin burned Michael Servetus at the stake. Servetus was burned at the stake just outside Geneva on October 27, 1553. John Calvin had some connection with the affair, and the part he played is not excusable in the light of the twentieth century, but it is not accurate to say that Calvin did the burning. Let us look at the facts.

Michael Servetus was a Spaniard with a brilliant but erractic mind. He renounced Roman Catholicism, but did not embrace Protestantism. He was a prolific writer and wrote vehemently against some of the most chedrished doctrines of Christianity. Both Catholics and Protestants considered his writings not only heretical but horribly blasphemous.

In 1553 Servetus was arrested by the Roman Catholic authorities in Vienne, France, and sentenced to be burned. While awaiting execution he escaped, and went direct to Geneva. With all the world before him, why did he go to Geneva when he had been warned to stay away? He knew that Calvin had many bitter enemies, and probably knew that at that particular moment the majority of the City Council were opposed to Calvin. The City Council had banished him once, and might be induced to do it again. Servetus probably went to Geneva to ally himself with the enemies of Calvin and thus help to overthrow Calvin and his work. When Calvin heard of the presence of Servetus in Geneva he reported the matter to the City Council. Bear in mind that Calvin was not a member of the City Council and that the majority of the Council were opposed to him. The Council arrested Servetus and put him on trial for heresy and blasphemy. John Calvin appeard as a witness against him.

After a long trial the City Council found Servetus guilty of heresy and blasphemy, and sentenced him to be burned. Accoring to the Old Testament, blasphemy was punishable with death. John Calvin urged the Council not to burn Servetus, but to take a more humane method of executing him. The Council refused. The whole story is a sad one, and Calvin does not appear at his best in it, but we should judge him by the light of the century in which he lived. The large majority of both Protestants and Catholics in that century approved of the death penalty for heresy and blasphemy.
http://capthk.com/2009/07/16/john-calvin-and-michael-servetus/


47 posted on 02/25/2013 5:42:11 AM PST by Diamond (He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people,)
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To: haffast; Mrs. Don-o
He reminded his readers that he is no expert on the particulars of gun control legislation, but he maintained that “there can be no denying that, in the wake of Newtown, Aurora, Blacksburg, Tucson, Columbine, and almost countless other horrific and senseless deaths by guns, that something must be done.”

I would suggest that the Bishop do something that lies in his own competence - deny the Sacraments to pro-abort politicians. Ratifying anything that Obama says make Dolan look silly. He needs to fight the fire that's closest to him - the broad based and relentless attack underway against First Amendment religious liberty.

48 posted on 02/25/2013 6:04:43 AM PST by don-o (He will not share His glory, and He will not be mocked! Blessed be the Name of the Lord forever!)
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To: BlatherNaut; mylife; don-o
He reminded his readers that he is no expert on the particulars of gun control legislation, but he maintained that “there can be no denying that, in the wake of Newtown, Aurora, Blacksburg, Tucson, Columbine, and almost countless other horrific and senseless deaths by guns, that something must be done.

He shoulda left it at that: "I don't know nothin'`'bout no legislation, but (glances upowards, wrings hands) somebody do sumpthin'!"

The #1 worst fault of our pink-faced, causelessly smiling USCCB bishops (other than the pink faces and the smiles) is this urgent, restless sense that they've got to say somethng about everything.

Just do your job, OK?

Hint:


49 posted on 02/25/2013 6:42:18 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("For it is time that Judgment must begin with the House of God." 1 Peter 4:17)
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To: Diamond

Thank you for the Reformed apologetics interpretation.

Here is a more neutral statement of the facts.

“Meaning to flee to Italy, Servetus inexplicably stopped in Geneva, where Calvin and his Reformers had denounced him. On 13 August, he attended a sermon by Calvin at Geneva. He was arrested after the service[22] and again imprisoned. All his property was confiscated. Servetus claimed during this judgement he was arrested at an inn at Geneva. French Inquisitors asked that Servetus be extradited to them for execution. Calvin wanted to show himself as firm in defense of Christian orthodoxy as his usual opponents. “He was forced to push the condemnation of Servetus with all the means at his command.”[22] Calvin’s delicate health meant he did not personally appear against Servetus.[23] Nicholas de la Fontaine played the more active role in Servetus’s prosecution and the listing of points that condemned him.

At his trial, Servetus was condemned on two counts, for spreading and preaching Nontrinitarianism and anti-paedobaptism (anti-infant baptism).[24] Of paedobaptism Servetus had said, “It is an invention of the devil, an infernal falsity for the destruction of all Christianity.”[25] In the case the procureur général (chief public prosecutor) added some curious sounding accusations in the form of inquiries—the most odd sounding perhaps being, “whether he has married, and if he answers that he has not, he shall be asked why, in consideration of his age, he could refrain so long from marriage.” To this oblique imputation about his sexuality, Servetus replied that rupture (inguinal hernia) had long since made him incapable of that particular sin. Another offensive question was “whether he did not know that his doctrine was pernicious, considering that he favours Jews and Turks, by making excuses for them, and if he has not studied the Koran in order to disprove and controvert the doctrine and religion that the Christian churches hold, together with other profane books, from which people ought to abstain in matters of religion, according to the doctrine of St. Paul.”

Calvin believed Servetus deserving of death on account of what he termed as his “execrable blasphemies”.[26] Calvin expressed these sentiments in a letter to Farel, written about a week after Servetus’ arrest, in which he also mentioned an exchange with Servetus. Calvin wrote:

...after he [Servetus] had been recognized, I thought he should be detained. My friend Nicolas summoned him on a capital charge, offering himself as a security according to the lex talionis. On the following day he adduced against him forty written charges. He at first sought to evade them. Accordingly we were summoned. He impudently reviled me, just as if he regarded me as obnoxious to him. I answered him as he deserved... of the man’s effrontery I will say nothing; but such was his madness that he did not hesitate to say that devils possessed divinity; yea, that many gods were in individual devils, inasmuch as a deity had been substantially communicated to those equally with wood and stone. I hope that sentence of death will at least be passed on him; but I desired that the severity of the punishment be mitigated.[27]

As Servetus was not a citizen of Geneva, and legally could at worst be banished, the government, in an attempt to find some plausible excuse to disregard this legal reality, had consulted with other Swiss Reformed cantons (Zürich, Bern, Basel, Schaffhausen.) They universally favoured his condemnation and suppression of his doctrine, but without saying how that should be accomplished.[28] Martin Luther had condemned his writing in strong terms. Servetus and Philip Melanchthon had strongly hostile views of each other. The party called the “Libertines”, who were generally opposed to anything and everything John Calvin supported, were in this case strongly in favour of the execution of Servetus at the stake (while Calvin urged that he be beheaded instead). In fact, the council that condemned Servetus was presided over by Perrin (a Libertine) who ultimately on 24 October sentenced Servetus to death by burning for denying the Trinity and infant baptism.[29] When Calvin requested that Servetus be executed by decapitation as a traitor rather than by fire as a heretic, Farel, in a letter of 8 September, chided him for undue lenience.[30] The Geneva Council refused his request. On 27 October 1553 Servetus was burned at the stake just outside Geneva with what was believed to be the last copy of his book chained to his leg. Historians record his last words as: “Jesus, Son of the Eternal God, have mercy on me.”[31]

Calvin agreed that those whom the ruling religious authorities determined to be heretics should be punished:

Whoever shall maintain that wrong is done to heretics and blasphemers in punishing them makes himself an accomplice in their crime and guilty as they are. There is no question here of man’s authority; it is God who speaks, and clear it is what law he will have kept in the church, even to the end of the world. Wherefore does he demand of us a so extreme severity, if not to show us that due honor is not paid him, so long as we set not his service above every human consideration, so that we spare not kin, nor blood of any, and forget all humanity when the matter is to combat for His glory.[32]

John Locke, Toleration and Early Enlightenment Culture. Cambridge Studies in Early Modern British History...and others via Wiki


50 posted on 02/25/2013 6:55:08 AM PST by rbmillerjr (We have No Opposition to Obama's Socialist Agenda)
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