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Dorner Manhunt Reveals Police Contempt for Public Safety
Reason ^ | February 15, 2013 | Steven Greenhut

Posted on 02/22/2013 3:37:46 PM PST by neverdem

Police typically say that their top mission is to protect “public safety.” That’s the lingo. But the recently concluded manhunt for former Los Angeles Police Department officer Christopher Dorner, accused of murdering four people after releasing a manifesto decrying his 2008 firing from the force, suggests that concern about the public’s actual safety sometimes is fairly low on the list of police priorities.

Last weekend, police opened fire on a 71-year-old newspaper carrier and her 47-year-old daughter who had the misfortune of driving a pick-up truck police thought might be Dorner’s. The Los Angeles police detectives who opened fire on them, putting two bullets in the older woman’s back, didn’t do much double checking. The carriers' truck was a different make and color from Dorner’s.

As the women’s attorney told the Los Angeles Times: “The problem with the situation is it looked like the police had the goal of administering street justice and in so doing, didn't take the time to notice that these two older, small Latina women don't look like a large black man.” This could be written off as a sad fluke, except that 25 minutes later different officers opened fire on a different truck—once again getting key details wrong. Can’t officers at least check the license plate, and issue a warning, before opening fire?

“Nobody trains police officers to look for one of their own,” said Maria Haberfeld, a police-training professor at John Jay College in New York, according to the Web site News One. “I wouldn’t want to be in their shoes and I don’t think anybody else would.” We all understand the situation. But saying that we wouldn’t want to be “in their shoes” is no excuse for such dangerous behavior. The police wouldn’t excuse a member of the public for misusing a firearm, regardless of how stressed out that person felt.

News One also published the photograph of a gray Ford truck in the Los Angeles area with a hand-made “Don’t Shoot, Not Dorner, Thank You” poster on the back window. T-shirts and bumper stickers have popped up to similar effect. Those are funny in a dark way, but police ought to recognize how poorly this reflects on them and their strategies. It’s sad when people are more worried about the police than they are about a murderer on the loose.

“Simply put, the police culture in our country has changed,” argued former San Jose Police Chief Joe McNamara, a Hoover Institution scholar, in a Wall Street Journal article in 2006. “An emphasis on ‘officer safety’ and paramilitary training pervades today’s policing, in contrast to the older culture, which held that cops didn’t shoot until they were about to be shot or stabbed.”

Murders are sadly routine in the Los Angeles area. The massive police presence was the result of the killer targeting their own, thus leading to the reasonable conclusion that police pulled out the stops not because the public was in danger but because they were in danger. I don’t blame police for their efforts, but I also understand why residents in, say, South Los Angeles, wondered why killings in their community don’t rate the same attention.

With crime rates at 40-year lows, this is an opportune time for a debate about such police-priority issues free from excess emotionalism.

Media reports have focused on the rantings within Dorner’s manifesto. But a lot of it is about bureaucratic indifference—about police officials who, in his mind, didn't care about the communities they are sworn to protect. Nothing justifies such violence and I'm sickened by people who are celebrating Dorner, but even the LAPD is re-opening the case of Dorner’s firing. Perhaps the department will try to glean some broader lessons from this tragedy.

Currently, a case before the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals is evaluating the lengths to which police are required to go to protect innocent bystanders. The case involves Sacramento police who were trailing a suspect who had run from his car and then hid in a tree in a family’s backyard. A police helicopter spotted him. So an officer released a police dog into the yard even though people were having a gathering in the backyard.

Police dogs are trained to bite and hold suspects, but they can’t distinguish between law-abiding citizens relaxing with friends and police suspects. So Bandit attacked the first person it saw. Instead of instituting reform and settling with the family, Sacramento PD has been arguing that “officer safety” would be endangered by requiring a reasonable warning before releasing a vicious dog on private property.

It’s frightening to think that police can use deadly force without taking even the most modest steps to protect innocent bystanders. It’s even more frightening to hear people defend this approach. Yes, officer safety is important. But so is the public’s safety. It's time to grapple with the proper balance.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Politics/Elections; US: California
KEYWORDS: banglist; dorner; dornermanhunt; policeculture; publicsafety
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1 posted on 02/22/2013 3:37:54 PM PST by neverdem
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To: neverdem

IBTBL


2 posted on 02/22/2013 3:41:22 PM PST by null and void (Gun confiscation enables tyranny. Don't enable tyranny.)
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To: neverdem
This is just silly.

If anything, it shows the influence of Feminism in the police department. All the rules have been changed to accommodate hysterical female cops - and hysteria is catchy.

Everyone is acting like a frighten woman.

All this cop-hating is leading to anarchy!

3 posted on 02/22/2013 3:43:46 PM PST by donna (Pray for revival.)
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To: neverdem
ya mean like shooting FIRST... then making sure of the target later???
4 posted on 02/22/2013 3:43:46 PM PST by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: neverdem

Somewhere in the greater L.A. area, there is a truck OR 2 that ain’t shot up enough to suit the LAPD...


5 posted on 02/22/2013 3:44:33 PM PST by freedumb2003 (I learned everything I needed to know about racism from Colin Powell)
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To: neverdem
Here's one of Obama's cherished gun violence stories from mybarackobama.com:

"As a former Master Sergeant of the USAF Pararescue, I don't believe that I should be afraid that a civilian can shoot me dead in the street. The only thing that separates a civilian from a criminal is a criminal act, by then it's too late."

This sort of LEO attitude is a bit disturbing. The only thing that separates a civilian from a criminal is a criminal act? And by then it's too late? Well golly gee whillikers, I guess the civilians had better be shot before they can commit a criminal act, because then it's too late.

6 posted on 02/22/2013 3:46:56 PM PST by Sender (It's never too late to be who you could have been.)
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To: freedumb2003

If police officers are so incompetent they can’t distinguish between a suspect’s vehicle and that of an innocent by-stander, they don’t deserve to be on the job, period. Misusing your weapon isn’t an excuse just because you wear a badge. You should be held to a higher standard precisely because you wear the uniform.


7 posted on 02/22/2013 3:48:49 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: donna
All this cop-hating is leading to anarchy!

You say that like it is a bad thing.

8 posted on 02/22/2013 3:49:49 PM PST by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; Steve Van Doorn; Syncro; ProtectOurFreedom; Citizen James; abigail2; ...
I think this "police culture" is more prevalent among big city cops, IMHO. The NYPD certainly has an us versus them attitude.
9 posted on 02/22/2013 3:52:10 PM PST by neverdem ( Xin loi min oi)
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To: neverdem

Good Article. The current police culture in this country is evil and needs to change. The fact that they do not consider themselves “civilians” says a lot.


10 posted on 02/22/2013 3:55:21 PM PST by microgood
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To: goldstategop

There were 6 officers involved in blazing away at the two little old ladies delivering newspapers.

I’ll lay $5 that 4 of them will be promoted within the next two years.


11 posted on 02/22/2013 3:56:06 PM PST by null and void (Gun confiscation enables tyranny. Don't enable tyranny.)
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To: neverdem

I had a short conversation with an LAPD detective about the shooting in Torrance. What he told me:

The police were there on stakeout outside the house of someone on Dorner’s hit list.
It was 4:30 AM and dark. Thus spotting the make and color was difficult if not impossible (something this article stresses as exceptional.)
The pickup was moving with its lights off.
The driver did not respond to orders from the stakeout (perhaps having radio on).
Instead of a compliance, an arm came out the window (to toss newspaper we now know.)

The media has not mentioned nor this piece at “Reason.”

This is the first time I’ve written on this topic and haven’t scanned any of the other responses on other threads. So I don’t know what has been discussed.

I simply feel it’s right that an LAPD detective’s unofficial, off the record recounting to me is worth lurkers finding near the top of this thread.


12 posted on 02/22/2013 3:57:19 PM PST by Avoiding_Sulla (How humanitarian are "leaders" who back Malthusian, Utilitarian & Green nutcases?)
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To: neverdem

Cops do a lot of Ohio State type events yet they aren’t even soldiers, and Ohio State was made a permanent part of historical horrors.

Too many cops are just too panicky and fearful to be packing guns.


13 posted on 02/22/2013 3:57:56 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is a longtime supporter of homosexualizing the Boy Scouts (and the military).)
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To: elkfersupper

I appreciate the hard work of the “thin blue line” in keeping the rest of us safe. I’ve dealt with cops who’ve gone out of their way to look after me and cops who gave me a break even though they weren’t obligated to give it to me.

But there are also cops who think their badge gives them an entitlement to act like every one out there is a threat to them. They lose sight of the fact most people are not criminals and its not the public’s job to protect them, its their job to protect people going about their lawful business in society.

That is what separates the decent cops from those who think every one is out to get them. Most police officers appreciate the support of the public. For the “thin blue line,” the line in front of them must always be as clear and honorable as the public they’re charged to serve.


14 posted on 02/22/2013 4:00:39 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: neverdem

That is certainly true in my case. When I lived in Fairfax County, and Alex’, VA, all the pigs were scum-sucking, sub-human filth, not fit to lick the sweat from the back of my, well, you know. Since moving to western Loudoun County, the police officers are nothing short of wonderful. The difference is breathtaking.


15 posted on 02/22/2013 4:00:56 PM PST by Doctor 2Brains
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To: microgood
The current police culture in this country is evil and needs to change. The fact that they do not consider themselves “civilians” says a lot.

Not every department. SJPD are still peace officers, LAPD are law enforcement.

Strangely enough San Jose has a low murder rate, while LA...?

16 posted on 02/22/2013 4:01:11 PM PST by null and void (Gun confiscation enables tyranny. Don't enable tyranny.)
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To: Avoiding_Sulla

I appreciate the insight.


17 posted on 02/22/2013 4:03:15 PM PST by null and void (Gun confiscation enables tyranny. Don't enable tyranny.)
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To: neverdem
Also, how did they know nobody else was in the house with Dorner before they torched the place “like planned”? He tied up two people in another house just hours before.

If they did burn other people in the house, we would never know. The fallout would be unimaginable.

Shooting at random people in cars and blindly burning down homes are not the actions of legitimate police. These are the actions of a jackboot secret police that is willing to gamble with the lives of citizens to save their own a**es. Even though they (allegedly) got lucky in this case and didn't kill anyone while getting their man, there's absolutely no justification for such recklessness.

18 posted on 02/22/2013 4:03:15 PM PST by varyouga
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To: Avoiding_Sulla

City police cannot operate like combat troops at war, they can’t decide to have free fire zones determined individually and in our neighborhoods and just take out suspicious vehicles and then go examine them to see if one of the bodies is the bad guy they were looking for.

Two different vehicles came under fire using this technique, and neither of them had anything to do with anything.


19 posted on 02/22/2013 4:04:48 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is a longtime supporter of homosexualizing the Boy Scouts (and the military).)
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To: donna

So I wonder how many know the names of the 4 people Dorner murdered?

They don’t sound much different than Obama who probably doesn’t even know the name ‘Chris Kyle’.


20 posted on 02/22/2013 4:05:38 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: varyouga
Says you. I'm pretty sure someone will be along shortly to 'splain to you how it was a righteous murder take down.
21 posted on 02/22/2013 4:06:08 PM PST by null and void (Gun confiscation enables tyranny. Don't enable tyranny.)
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To: goldstategop

Dude, you’re giving them an excuse. They don’t think people are out to get ‘em... They’re filthy scum-sucking punks on power trips. That’s all.


22 posted on 02/22/2013 4:06:45 PM PST by Doctor 2Brains
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To: Avoiding_Sulla
The media has not mentioned nor this piece at “Reason.”

Interesting but not surprising as the MSM has definitely been a Dorner supporter,criminal apologist and anti LE.

Thanks for posting. I wasn't aware the shooting incident with the two women victims occurred in the dark at 4:30 AM.

23 posted on 02/22/2013 4:09:53 PM PST by Alaska Wolf (I)
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To: null and void
Not every department. SJPD are still peace officers, LAPD are law enforcement.

As a former San Jose resident, I've heard first-hand accounts of some pretty nasty behavior from SJPD officers. I wouldn't trust them any more than I would trust LAPD
24 posted on 02/22/2013 4:12:13 PM PST by fr_freak
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To: Chode

And screaming while it happens.


25 posted on 02/22/2013 4:19:35 PM PST by donna (Pray for revival.)
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To: Avoiding_Sulla

The cops couldn’t make out who was in the truck so they shot it up. That’s OK? Damn.


26 posted on 02/22/2013 4:21:12 PM PST by loungitude (The truth hurts.)
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To: fr_freak

I’ve had them pounding on my bedroom door in the wee hours, and on the front door late at night, I’ve had two warrantless searches on my property, one with my explicit permission, one not so much. Half the fix-it tickets and half the moving violations I’ve gotten in over 40 years of driving were at the hands of SJPD.

I still like them.

Especially after having lived in LA and dealt with LAPD.


27 posted on 02/22/2013 4:21:20 PM PST by null and void (Gun confiscation enables tyranny. Don't enable tyranny.)
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To: Avoiding_Sulla

So they back-shoot skinny old Hispanic ladies instead of seeing a fat young black man. Okay.......


28 posted on 02/22/2013 4:22:32 PM PST by Uncle Miltie (Due Process 2013: "Burn the M*****-F***er Down!")
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To: neverdem
“Simply put, the police culture in our country has changed,” argued former San Jose Police Chief Joe McNamara, a Hoover Institution scholar, in a Wall Street Journal article in 2006. “An emphasis on ‘officer safety’ and paramilitary training pervades today’s policing, in contrast to the older culture, which held that cops didn’t shoot until they were about to be shot or stabbed.”

No truer words spoken. This is a fact. The cop culture has gone from police patrolling to military occupation. The blue line vs. all comers. Right down to shooting fido before there is any chance for fido to jump the fence.

We are rapidly spawning a police state on the local and federal level. Our freedom is in imminent danger.

29 posted on 02/22/2013 4:23:18 PM PST by Freedom_Is_Not_Free (Free goodies for all -- Freedom for none.)
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To: Alaska Wolf
I wasn't aware the shooting incident with the two women victims occurred in the dark at 4:30 AM.

That's another thing about the media coverage on this incident. The photo they broadcast across the world was that of the shot-up pickup hours later after daybreak. Seems they let most readers assume it occurred in full light.

Seeing as we are not fully Orwellian yet, let's call the MSM the Agency of Lies while we still may. Maybe that way we may help prevent later generations from being forced to call it the Ministry of Truth.

30 posted on 02/22/2013 4:25:05 PM PST by Avoiding_Sulla (How humanitarian are "leaders" who back Malthusian, Utilitarian & Green nutcases?)
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To: Avoiding_Sulla
So the cops unloading their "clips" on a vehicle that was not firing on them is OK?

Lights off are probable cause?

An arm out the window is a deadly threat?

Give me a break.

31 posted on 02/22/2013 4:28:14 PM PST by Paladin2
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To: Avoiding_Sulla

I just happened to be reading “Sudden Prey” (1996) (Lucas Davenport, book 8) last week and it has the EXACT scene in the book.

It was very interesting to read and gave a real insight as to what happened.


32 posted on 02/22/2013 4:28:20 PM PST by donna (Pray for revival.)
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To: donna
sorry, but you're wrong.....if anything whatever "feminism" occurred in the last several decades has actually enabled some men to become more brutish, more arrogant, more self absorbed, less caring than before....

thus, they think almost all of us are the underlings, and they are the macho powerful men looking out for numero uno first and foremost....

women and children be damned...

33 posted on 02/22/2013 4:30:14 PM PST by cherry
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To: Avoiding_Sulla
That's another thing about the media coverage on this incident. The photo they broadcast across the world was that of the shot-up pickup hours later after daybreak. Seems they let most readers assume it occurred in full light.

Seems there are many who prefer not to see the facts or have the facts presented.

34 posted on 02/22/2013 4:31:44 PM PST by Alaska Wolf (I)
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To: neverdem

I have to say I found the panic and cowardice of the LAPD to be shameful.


35 posted on 02/22/2013 4:31:56 PM PST by ozzymandus
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To: null and void
I still like them.

Especially after having lived in LA and dealt with LAPD.


Well, maybe that's the difference. I've never lived in LA, so maybe I don't understand just how bad they can be.
36 posted on 02/22/2013 4:31:57 PM PST by fr_freak
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To: cherry

Chivalry didn’t die, it was murdered.


37 posted on 02/22/2013 4:32:44 PM PST by null and void (Gun confiscation enables tyranny. Don't enable tyranny.)
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To: Alaska Wolf
Ain't that the truth!


38 posted on 02/22/2013 4:36:57 PM PST by null and void (Gun confiscation enables tyranny. Don't enable tyranny.)
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To: null and void
Not every department. SJPD are still peace officers, LAPD are law enforcement.

That is kind of the case where I live too - the police act more respectful toward citizens. But I think the evolution of SWAT midnight raids using military tactics are becoming common everywhere and it breeds this mindset we saw when those cops opened up on those two poor girls.
39 posted on 02/22/2013 4:39:58 PM PST by microgood
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To: Avoiding_Sulla
... and haven’t scanned any of the other responses on other threads

Well I have, and it seems the police said they were suspicious of the women's vehicle because it was starting and stopping along the street. None of them seemed to notice that every time it stopped, a newspaper came flying out the window of the pickup. Also, many paper delivery people turn their headlights off so as not to disturb the neighbours. I guess the rule is, if you're not sure ...shoot!

40 posted on 02/22/2013 4:40:59 PM PST by Dartman (Mubarak and Gaddafi are going to look like choirboys when this is over)
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To: neverdem

Gee what does a crip or a blood do when one of their gang gets smoked.... They go after the perp and to heck with bystanders . All the while police tsk, tsk about “ senseless and undisciplined” thugs. Hahahahahaha. Typical tough guys wearing their balaclavas and pretending their spec operators except for one little thing. Discipline...


41 posted on 02/22/2013 4:41:15 PM PST by Dick Vomer (democrats are like flies, whatever they don't eat they sh#t on.)
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To: null and void
Ain't that the truth!

Too bad you can't handle the truth. Is it true that the shooting incident with the 'surfer' occurred while it was dark?

42 posted on 02/22/2013 4:43:24 PM PST by Alaska Wolf (I)
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To: donna

cop hating?

really?


43 posted on 02/22/2013 4:43:52 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: donna
100%
44 posted on 02/22/2013 4:43:52 PM PST by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Avoiding_Sulla

I followed the Dorner story as it was happening on KFI radio online and all of the points you made were reported by KFI. It was also noted by many callers that newspaper delivery people all over the valley do drive with lights out on residential side streets because they get too many complaints if the paper delivery people’s headlights shine in their windows. If callers knew this why did the police seem to not be aware? Even if all your points are accurate it still seems the police had no reason to fire upon the vehicle. The people in the vehicle were not firing at police or anyone else and obviously police did not identify vehicle or occupants before firing upon them. Inexcusable.


45 posted on 02/22/2013 4:44:20 PM PST by Tammy8 (~Secure the border and deport all illegals- do it now! ~ Support our Troops!~)
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To: Las Vegas Ron

pingarooney


46 posted on 02/22/2013 4:46:47 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Alaska Wolf

So its ok for the cops to shoot people at random as long as its dark?


47 posted on 02/22/2013 4:48:48 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: neverdem

Here is a new thread featuring a new essay and 5-minute YouTube video titled “Democide: Socialism, Tyranny, Guns and Freedom.” The video has had 12,000 views in the first two days.

I helped to produce the video. It’s an effort to lift the debate from Newtown “small ball” to the big leagues of state democide, where these efforts at “reasonable and commonsense” gun control laws always lead to death by the million in the end.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2990161/posts?page=42


48 posted on 02/22/2013 4:49:25 PM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: cripplecreek

So the fact that Dorner was a murdering SOB excuses everything the cops did?

I thought you were better then that.


49 posted on 02/22/2013 4:51:34 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Alaska Wolf
Is it true that the shooting incident with the 'surfer' occurred while it was dark?

Is it true that if it were that would make it A-OK with you?

50 posted on 02/22/2013 4:53:47 PM PST by null and void (Gun confiscation enables tyranny. Don't enable tyranny.)
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