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I really resent this guy's attitude. This is not a problem you compare to a computer, ok, dimwit. This is state of the art technology with nothing you can compare it with. Even going head-to-head with the predator-drone, it's not in the same arena.

The problem is quite serious just for the fear of casualty, where I've read two pilots died as a result of the design dynamics the jet suffers from. The cost is where the inexplicable aspect meets pentagon operations protocols. But it gets even worse when you realize the aircraft has been priced on the very low end of the scale with the idea of having foreign counties help ameliorate the exorbitant costs by having them include a contingent of aircraft for use by their own air force.

Just imagine you're listening to a pitch for your country to be one of the first outside the US military to acquire these jets of the future. The Defense Minister is wholly uncomfortable about the price but US pressure and influence leaves him little choice.

Okay. The minister knows better than to say no and is ready to order up a contingent of the F-22 (at how much per unit????} he's about to sign.

The pentagon sales guy then says there's just this one little thing. The pilots have a tendency to black out due to some problem with the oxygen/breathing system but we still don't have a single clue why it's happening.

Okay, it's like, we'll get back to you pentagon guys real soon.

1 posted on 02/24/2013 10:52:42 AM PST by lbryce
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To: lbryce

You are referring to the F35. The 22 was all ours.


2 posted on 02/24/2013 10:58:22 AM PST by Norm Lenhart
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To: lbryce

I blame skynet.


4 posted on 02/24/2013 11:03:01 AM PST by autumnraine (America how long will you be so deaf and dumb to the tumbril wheels carrying you to the guillotine?)
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To: lbryce

The comments were better than the article.


5 posted on 02/24/2013 11:05:05 AM PST by mountainlion (Live well for those that did not make it back.)
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To: lbryce
The comments were better than the article.
6 posted on 02/24/2013 11:06:35 AM PST by mountainlion (Live well for those that did not make it back.)
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To: lbryce

The AR-15/M-16 has good “User Experience”? You know, this guy is on to something here. This weapon requires some instruction to be able to fire it. It’s not something you can just pick up and start firing. Take a box of cartridges, an empty magazine, and a weapon and see if Joe or Mary off the street can even get the thing to fire.


10 posted on 02/24/2013 11:13:07 AM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: lbryce

I guess what makes the computer so good it just poisons the bitchy whiners. Missing him was the obvious flaw.


13 posted on 02/24/2013 11:36:08 AM PST by ImJustAnotherOkie (zerogottago)
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To: lbryce
This is not a problem you compare to a computer, ok, dimwit.

Why not? The oxygen problem is exactly a computer problem [software], not a mechanical problem (from everything I've read), and that means it's perfectly ok to compare it because you're comparing apples-to-apples in that case.

Granted that the cost in money or in human-life for some error might be higher, but why does that mean that incorrect [buggy] software should be any more acceptable in your word-processor than in your pace-maker?

This is state of the art technology with nothing you can compare it with.

Obviously incorrect, we can compare it with other similar items: crossbows to smooth-bore, or Forth to LISP, or gasoline- to Diesel-engines.

14 posted on 02/24/2013 11:53:26 AM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: lbryce

“But it gets even worse when you realize the aircraft has been priced on the very low end of the scale with the idea of having foreign counties help ameliorate the exorbitant costs by having them include a contingent of aircraft for use by their own air force.”

Actually, law requires the F-22, from inception to today and forever, to be US-only. Enacting legislation made it so.

Besides, because it was never to be exported, the software was never encrypted with FMS security deletions. These deletions ensure an exported jet does not have our software. They get a version with a governor on it and any attempt to disconnect the governor would result in software unraveling/scrambling to nothing but unrecognizable ones and zeros.

To modify F-22 software for export would cost an estimated half a billion dollars. . .not many countries can afford the jet at its current price, let alone at the price of the jet PLUS NR costs.

Don’t like the guys attitude, either.


15 posted on 02/24/2013 12:39:07 PM PST by Hulka
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To: lbryce

Yep - the article is simply WRONG! Better yet - he used 60 minutes as a source of truth? Really?

Turns out the best suspect they have for the Oxygen problem is the suit the guys wear! They are doubling up on the cold-water gear along with the G suit, and the one gets in the others way during High G manuevers. Comes down to a faulty valve in the G suit.

http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/07/31/pressure_vests_were_choking_f_22_pilots

Has nothing to do with Computers. He is an idiot.


17 posted on 02/24/2013 1:42:50 PM PST by fremont_steve
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To: lbryce

drones are great... until your enemy commandeers them. then you’re hosed.

maybe, juuuuuuuust maybe... if we didn’t get the boards from china, there would be less sabotage inherent in the system.

of course, i’m from the generation where American military might was developed at home by Americans and not manufactured overseas and shipped in to be integrated by teams of foreign born workers.


18 posted on 02/24/2013 2:13:31 PM PST by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style)
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To: lbryce

Yes, from what I understand, the issue was the new G-suit. They were trying to make sustained G’s effortless, but once activated it didn’t fully release. Thus limiting the pilot to short shallow breaths that would be typical of a person when not exerting. Unfortunately, air-to-air combat is a near constant high level of effort, causing an oxygen deficit. I only have two gripes with the F-22: We bought too few and the internal weapons bay is too small. A smart tactician would give up a little stealth for more missiles on the external wing stations.


19 posted on 02/24/2013 4:35:46 PM PST by Revolutionary ("Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition!")
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To: lbryce

Within the Army Operational Testing of an IT system includes Manpower Personnel Integration (MANPRINT), of which Human Factors Integration (HFE) is a part.


21 posted on 02/24/2013 5:11:26 PM PST by Portcall24
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To: lbryce
They should have gone with Northrop's F-23. A fighter that costs more but works is less expensive in the long run than a cheaper fighter like the F-22 that is plagued with gremlins.


25 posted on 02/25/2013 5:56:51 AM PST by Sirius Lee (All that is required for evil to advance is for government to do "something")
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