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“…if that’s what you believe, then all of this talk of revolution suddenly doesn’t seem so crazy,
bob-owens.com ^ | 26 February, 2013 | Bob Owens

Posted on 02/26/2013 6:53:41 PM PST by marktwain

For some reason, I just don’t get juiced by the idea of listening to an hour long podcast from an economist, but I’m glad that Ed Driscoll did.

He transcribed the part where Glenn Reynolds, law professor at the University of Tennessee and blogger of Instapundit fame, dropped the boom on the socialist supporters of Georgetown law professor Louis Michael Seidman, who advocates giving up on the constitution.

REYNOLDS: Here’s the problem with public officials — because that’s really [Seidman’s] audience — deciding to ignore the Constitution: If you’re the president, if you’re a member of Congress, if you are a TSA agent, the only reason why somebody should listen to what you say, instead of horsewhipping you out of town for your impertinence, is because you exercise power viathe Constitution. If the Constitution doesn’t count, you don’t have any legitimate power. You’re a thief, a brigand, an officious busybody, somebody who should be tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail for trying to exercise power you don’t possess.

So if we’re going to start ignoring the Constitution, I’m fine with that. The first part I’m going to start ignoring is the part that says, I have to do whatever they say.

ROBERTS: But his argument is that we already ignore the Constitution; it’s not really much of a binding document.

REYNOLDS: Oh, well, then I’m free to do whatever I want! And actually, that is a damning admission, because what that really says is: If you believe Seidman’s argument; if you believe that we already ignore the Constitution anyway, then in fact, the government rules by sheer naked force, and nothing else. And if that’s what you believe, then all of this talk of revolution suddenly doesn’t seem so crazy, it seems almost mandatory.

Reynolds wrote a column on Feb 4th explaining those views in more detail.

Americans are out of sorts, and increasingly they’re unhappy with the government. According to a Pew poll released last week, more than half ofAmericans view government as a threat to their freedom.

And it’s not just Republicans unhappy with Obama, or gun owners afraid that the government will take their guns: 38% of Democrats, and 45% of non-gun owners, see the government as a threat.

Add this to another recent poll in which only 22% of likely voters feel America’s government has the “consent of the governed,” and you’ve got a pretty depressing picture — and a recipe for potential trouble. Governments operate, to a degree, by force, but ultimately they depend on legitimacy. A government that a majority views as a threat, and that only a small minority sees as enjoying the consent of the governed, is a government with legitimacy problems.

We’re rapidly approaching a point where Americans are going to have to make a choice to gut the power of the federal government, or the federal government is going to gut us.

Professor Reynolds suggests a constitutional convention will be the best way out, and indeed, it may be.

Myself, I have the same wary view of a convention that Matt Bracken does. Would-be elites who can steal elections can steal constitutional conventions, and I don’t think for a second that the GOP wouldn’t collaborate with the socialists to stay in power to keep feeding off the corpse of the Republic.

Judging by the continued arms an ammunition shortages, that appears to be a fairly common belief.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: banglist; constitution; cw2; guncontrol; revolution; secondamendment; seidman
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This is exactly the case. If the political class wants to ignore the Constitution, then they have no legitimacy. They only hold onto power by brute force.
1 posted on 02/26/2013 6:54:03 PM PST by marktwain
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To: marktwain

The time is drawing nigh, we will not get out of 2016 with the America that we all thought we knew.


2 posted on 02/26/2013 7:03:54 PM PST by Cheerio (Barry Hussein Soetoro-0bama=The Complete Destruction of American Capitalism)
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To: BlackJack
Ping.

5.56mm

3 posted on 02/26/2013 7:07:29 PM PST by M Kehoe
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To: marktwain

...it seems almost mandatory.


4 posted on 02/26/2013 7:09:20 PM PST by null and void (Gun confiscation enables tyranny. Don't enable tyranny.)
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To: marktwain

bttt

We don’t need a constitutional convention.


5 posted on 02/26/2013 7:12:43 PM PST by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: marktwain

Ping......
Mr Glenn Reynolds. I like you. I like you a lot. I am proud to hear you are a fellow Tennesseean Yes, the time is drawing nigh....


6 posted on 02/26/2013 7:13:35 PM PST by murrie (For God so loved the world, that he gave His only begotten Son.......)
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To: marktwain
Government rules with the consent of the governed. Even in the old CCCP, when they finally got fed up, it was over. With much less bloodshed than I expected.

/johnny

7 posted on 02/26/2013 7:14:36 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: marktwain
It's not just the Constitution that they ignore ...

It is undoubtedly true that all citizens capable of bearing arms constitute the reserved military force or reserve militia of the United States as well as of the states, and, in view of this prerogative of the general government, as well as of its general powers, the states cannot, even laying the constitutional provision in question [the 2nd amendment] out of view, prohibit the people from keeping and bearing arms, so as to deprive the United States of their rightful resource for maintaining the public security, and disable the people from performing their duty to the general government.

Presser v. Illinois, 116 U.S. 252 (1886)

That from the United States Supreme Court. Now take a look at what one lower court says the Presser case stands for:

Presser stands for the proposition that the right of the people to keep and bear arms, whatever else its nature, is a right only against the federal government, not against the States. The courts are uniform in this interpretation. See, e.g., Thomas, 730 F.2d at 42 (1st Cir.); Peoples Rights Org., 152 F.3d at 538-39 n. 18 (6th Cir.); Quilici, 695 F.2d at 269 (7th Cir.); Fresno Rifle & Pistol Club, 965 F.2d at 730-31 (9th Cir.).

Bach v. Pataki408 F.3d 75 (2d Cir. 2005)

Both courts are talking about the right to keep and bear arms, and the Supreme Court said that this right exists even if the 2nd amendment does not.

The system is corrupt. The legislature is corrupt. The courts are corrupt. The legitimacy of the federal government is exactly the legitimacy that the Mafia holds, brute force.

8 posted on 02/26/2013 7:22:44 PM PST by Cboldt
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To: marktwain

This is the excerpt from my novel “Foreign Enemies And Traitors” where a character discusses the Con-Con that resulted in the Economic Justice and Democracy Amendment, and the Freedom from Gun Violence Amendment.

Anybody who thinks a Con-Con would make our situation better is very naive, IMHO.

http://matthewbracken.site.aplus.net/FESP.htm


9 posted on 02/26/2013 7:28:56 PM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: marktwain

if the government can ignore it, the people can, too.

they cant demand we respect their power, esp their unconstitutional powers they’ve taken that they don’t have, and they take away our guaranteed rights.


10 posted on 02/26/2013 7:29:26 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: smokingfrog

that will be the beginning of the revolution. we’re not living under a libtard socialist constitution.


11 posted on 02/26/2013 7:30:31 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: Travis McGee
Myself, I have the same wary view of a convention that Matt Bracken does.

Just a PING, FRiend.

12 posted on 02/26/2013 7:52:47 PM PST by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Travis McGee

Ah, you’re already here.


13 posted on 02/26/2013 7:54:39 PM PST by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: All


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14 posted on 02/26/2013 7:58:53 PM PST by musicman (Until I see the REAL Long Form Vault BC, he's just "PRES__ENT" Obama = Without "ID")
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To: Cheerio

2016? All will be well with President Moochelle. Not to worry.


15 posted on 02/26/2013 8:08:19 PM PST by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: marktwain

A three part article I just came across is one of the most significant I have ever seen concerning the state of our destruction. The link to part three is: http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/02/the_endgame_for_the_destruction_of_the_united_states.html

The first paragraph of the article contains links to parts one and two. This is a must read.


16 posted on 02/26/2013 8:17:50 PM PST by matthew fuller (Fast and Furious fizzled- Enter Sandy Hook.)
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To: marktwain

I swore an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. I, unlike so many political “leaders,” take my oaths seriously. If they abandon the Constitution I will use every means at my disposal to restore it. Every means.


17 posted on 02/26/2013 8:18:05 PM PST by ThunderSleeps (Stop obarma now! Stop the hussein - insane agenda!)
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To: ProtectOurFreedom

“All will be well with President Moochelle. “

She’ll be VP. Biden as President for 4 years. THEN Michelle as President, and Chelsea C as VP.

Voting does not matter any more.


18 posted on 02/26/2013 8:18:41 PM PST by DBrow
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To: marktwain

“Professor Reynolds suggests a constitutional convention will be the best way out, and indeed, it may be.”

A second Constitutional Convention might become the only way to ensure a peaceful transition from the old DC government, to a new one.

There are those here on FR who say “no, no, NO!” when this subject comes up. Short of an uprising 1861-style, what other alternatives would be preferable?


19 posted on 02/26/2013 8:19:54 PM PST by Road Glide
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sfl


20 posted on 02/26/2013 8:21:20 PM PST by phockthis (http://www.supremelaw.org/fedzone11/index.htm ...)
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To: marktwain
it seems almost mandatory

Yet another mandate in DC!

21 posted on 02/26/2013 8:28:23 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: Road Glide

a CC would be dominated by leftists. Imagine mandatory prison sentences for school kids who refused to shower with trannies of the opposite sex.


22 posted on 02/26/2013 8:32:03 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: marktwain

“Governments operate, to a degree, by force, but ultimately they depend on legitimacy.” Ah so; perhaps some are beginning to understand why the pirate Roberts was placed at the head of the SCOTUS ... unConstitutional laws must be given an air of legitimacy that the sheeple will accept. But Roberts has proven too quickly that he is under orders from someone not sitting the bench! Sadly, the sheeple will not catch on until it is too late, because the most demonic force, the media, is employed to prevent truth from reaching the people.


23 posted on 02/26/2013 8:34:53 PM PST by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: marktwain
Cut down to the specifics, its a helluva powerful statement:

'If you’re the president, member of congress, govt. agent, etc,
the only reason why anyone should listen to what you say,
is because you exercise power via the Constitution'.

'If the Constitution doesn’t count, you don’t have any legitimate power. and should be (forcibly) removed for trying to exercise power you don’t possess'.

24 posted on 02/26/2013 8:36:44 PM PST by 45semi (A police state is always preceded by a nanny state...)
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To: Secret Agent Man

if the government can ignore it, the people can, too.

they cant demand we respect their power, esp their unconstitutional powers they’ve taken that they don’t have, and they take away our guaranteed rights.

Yippee! No more income taxes!


25 posted on 02/26/2013 8:44:29 PM PST by jsanders2001
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To: matthew fuller

Good series of articles. Thanks for linking.


26 posted on 02/26/2013 8:48:59 PM PST by Jane Long
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To: 45semi

ping


27 posted on 02/26/2013 8:50:21 PM PST by Dogbert41
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To: marktwain

Many of us, will not see the day, when Our Republic is re- Constitutionaly established. Regardless, this will happen.


28 posted on 02/26/2013 8:59:09 PM PST by RedHeeler
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To: Travis McGee
Anybody who thinks a Con-Con would make our situation better is very naive, IMHO.

Very.

29 posted on 02/26/2013 8:59:26 PM PST by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: marktwain

The problem is that, for all our population, I don’t see a single George Washington.


30 posted on 02/26/2013 9:01:21 PM PST by The Duke (We don't rent pigs, but apparently we *do* ELECT them.)
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To: marktwain

Many of us, will not see the day, when Our Republic is re- Constitutionaly established. Regardless, this will happen. By the grace of God, and our great efforts now.


31 posted on 02/26/2013 9:07:56 PM PST by RedHeeler
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To: marktwain
"Would-be elites who can steal elections can steal constitutional conventions, and I don’t think for a second that the GOP wouldn’t collaborate with the socialists to stay in power to keep feeding off the corpse of the Republic."

Would-be elites who can steal elections can steal constitutional conventions, and I don’t think doubt for a second that the GOP wouldn’t will happily collaborate with the socialists to stay in power to keep feeding off the corpse of the Republic.

Their you go fixed the mistakes. /scarc

32 posted on 02/26/2013 9:17:00 PM PST by Stanwood_Dave ("Testilying." Cop's don't lie, they just Testily{ing} as taught in their respected Police Academy.)
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To: marktwain

bttt


33 posted on 02/26/2013 9:25:40 PM PST by TEXOKIE (We must surrender only to our Holy God and never to the evil that has befallen us.)
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To: matthew fuller
A three part article I just came across is one of the most significant I have ever seen concerning the state of our destruction.

Thanks for the link in post #16.

It is, indeed, an important series of articles. The connection between Bill Ayers and Barack Obama cannot be emphasized enough.

34 posted on 02/26/2013 9:28:35 PM PST by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: Cheerio

SPOT ON
BOOKbump


35 posted on 02/26/2013 10:17:29 PM PST by S.O.S121.500 ( Nothing so vexes me as a democrap above ground...ENFORCE THE BILL OF RIGHTS.)
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To: marktwain

CW2 bump!


36 posted on 02/26/2013 10:30:36 PM PST by Perseverando (Gun control? It's really not about gun control is it? It's really about PEOPLE CONTROL!)
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To: marktwain
38% of Democrats think the government is a threat to them right after the election??????????????

Their voting patterns make absolutely no sense, even for Democrats.

37 posted on 02/26/2013 11:01:00 PM PST by Crucial (Tolerance at the expense of equal treatment is the path to tyranny.)
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To: Road Glide

There’s nothing wrong with the original Constitution, applied equally to everyone. Any variance from that is an insult and danger to freedom. If we could only push a reset button on the Constitution. Now that would be wonderful, before the 16th and 17th Amendments...


38 posted on 02/26/2013 11:06:38 PM PST by Crucial (Tolerance at the expense of equal treatment is the path to tyranny.)
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To: marktwain
Add this to another recent poll in which only 22% of likely voters feel America’s government has the “consent of the governed,” and you’ve got a pretty depressing picture — and a recipe for potential trouble. Governments operate, to a degree, by force, but ultimately they depend on legitimacy. A government that a majority views as a threat, and that only a small minority sees as enjoying the consent of the governed, is a government with legitimacy problems.

I said this right after the election...

...Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, ...

When elected officials and bureaucracies act outside the law they are simply lawbreakers. When the majority of the people vote in favor of total lawlessness in the highest offices they are withdrawing their consent to be governed by a constitutional government. By what legitimate basis does the United States of America, as a Constitutional republic, still exist?

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

'The People' no longer support that. They voted in support of lawlessness from the highest office on down. They voted against the rule of law. By referendum we now have a banana republic. The USAINO.

39 posted on 02/26/2013 11:08:17 PM PST by TigersEye (The irresponsible should not be leading the responsible.)
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To: Cheerio
Ma deuce at 1000 yds. Nothing beats the foot pounds of energy at the target. .50 cal will beat anything on the battle field as a sniper rifle.

God I pray America wakes up before the dogs of war are unleashed, because, the American people are a good people and will clean up this country in short order when SHTF!

40 posted on 02/27/2013 12:00:40 AM PST by paratrooper82 (82nd ABN Div. 1/508th BN "Fury From the Sky")
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To: Travis McGee

Bob Owens is an Appleseed instructor.


41 posted on 02/27/2013 12:44:03 AM PST by ebshumidors
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To: marktwain

Marking...


42 posted on 02/27/2013 12:49:43 AM PST by Rummyfan (Iraq: it's not about Iraq anymore, it's about the USA!)
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To: okie01; Jane Long

You’re very welcome. I just had to post those.


43 posted on 02/27/2013 4:51:45 AM PST by matthew fuller (Fast and Furious fizzled- Enter Sandy Hook.)
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To: marktwain

——The first part I’m going to start ignoring is the part that says, I have to do whatever they say.——

My statement of that view is....

When they change the rules, the rules change.

When laws protecting citizens are ignored, laws protecting tyrants can be ignored.

BTW....... horse whipping doesn’t solve the problem. Stronger treatment is required to prevent vendetta like response


44 posted on 02/27/2013 4:58:27 AM PST by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 .....The fairest Deduction to be reduced is the Standard Deduction)
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To: marktwain

My tagline for months was “Those in a rush to trample on the Constitution forget that it is the source of their authority.” If the government doesn’t follow the Constitution, then it has no legitimate authority to enforce its edicts.


45 posted on 02/27/2013 4:59:46 AM PST by kevkrom (If a wise man has an argument with a foolish man, the fool only rages or laughs...)
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To: marktwain

“Reynolds suggests a constitutional convention will be the best way out”

Why would a government which ignores the current constitution pay any attention to a new one?


46 posted on 02/27/2013 6:07:47 AM PST by ctdonath2 (3% of the population perpetrates >50% of homicides...but gun control advocates blame metal boxes.)
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To: ctdonath2

A constitutional convention would be a major fail after 30 million “proud” illegals start voting themselves money from those evil white devils. They’ll be full voting citizens seconds after a convention is hinted at, and congress will be redistributed minutes later.


47 posted on 02/27/2013 6:16:53 AM PST by King Moonracer (Bad lighting and cheap fabric, that's how you sell clothing.....)
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To: bert

“When laws protecting citizens are ignored, laws protecting tyrants can be ignored.”

I’m stealing this. It might get me in trouble, but I’m gonna use it.


48 posted on 02/27/2013 6:30:08 AM PST by PLMerite (Shut the Beyotch Down! Burn, baby, burn!)
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To: ThunderSleeps

“I swore an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States...”

Now finish the sentence.

“...and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

Seems if there’s a choice between the Constitution or the POTUS-UCMJ the latter rules.


49 posted on 02/27/2013 6:46:19 AM PST by Justa
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To: marktwain

If you ask me, they hold on to power not so much through brute force (although that is there...) as through “bread and circuses.” Keep masses fed and entertained and they won’t try to overthrow you - the elites don’t give a darn what the masses do each other and to the middle class, so long as they aren’t bothered.

BTW: A Constituional Convention would be catastrophic. You’d end with a document with all sorts of “positive rights” like “rights” to food, shelter, medical care, education, and entertainment, and a government empowered to enslave and rob anyone it likes in order to pay for these “rights.”


50 posted on 02/27/2013 6:46:24 AM PST by Little Ray (Waiting for the return of the Gods of the Copybook Headings.)
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