Skip to comments.Waco 20 Years Later: The ATF Raid
Posted on 02/27/2013 8:47:19 AM PST by Sybeck1Edited on 02/27/2013 9:42:50 AM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]
February 28, 1993, a raid by agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms sparked the biggest firefight in the history of American law enforcement and continued debate 20 years later. Two agents who were there say the disastrous raid led to fundamental changes in ATF.
(Excerpt) Read more at myfoxdfw.com ...
“They were throwing grenades out the window”
I call BS on that one.
As far as I am concerned, ANYONE associated with any agency of the US Government that was in attendance at WACO when they set fire to the compound and murdered dozens of children, women, and men, should be in prison for murder.
I would not believe anything anyone from the ATF says. They, the agency is an anachronism from times gone by. It should not exist, period.
How the FBI's Hostage Roasting Team got its name.
Dead men tell no tales, and that’s what concerns me about the pliant media. These things can and likely will happen to individuals and small groups across the nation in the near future with Obama and his ilk trying to muster an internal army of his own choosing.
We may be pinned down, outgunned, and we can call 911 for help and plead to have the federales called off, but those calls will likely fall on deaf ears and never be made public. We’ll be branded “psychopaths” with “arsenals” who murdered agents “in cold blood.”
When ATF can produce the missing doors, then I might be willing to listen to the rest of what they have to say.
didn’t those four ATF agents take shots the back of the head rather than the front, implying they were shot by their own men?
It is difficult to prove at this point. In any case where one side of an argument/hostility is completely dead, it only remains for the winning side to lie their asses off in their favor.
The fact that they can’t even lie well speaks VOLUMES! Incompetent, showboating, murdering bureaucrats with itchy trigger fingers....
I said earlier about wishing all connected on the government side were in prison....scratch that..they should have been lined up against the rubble and shot.
Lots of bullsh*t in that incredibly one-sided article.
History? Or, propaganda? You decide.
I hope so, because that was one huge mass of misinformation.
Waco was a lesson learned for the gov't. After that the militia grew like wildfire in a drought. They know the American people are armed and have a tolerance level. They depend on that tolerance level by gradually compromising each generation a little more than the last, so that they can win without firing a shot.
The "talk radio" guy then was Ron Engleman, still alive somewhere, I presume..
..he talked to Koresh directly
I would think that he should be asked what happened...
ATF storms the buildings for no reason.
People in building try and defend themselves.
People is building were burned alive.....ATF that showed them.
“These agents were murdered and they never got the true respect that they deserve.”
Cry me a river!
I wonder if Bill Clinton will have anything to say about Sandy Hook today.
Bought the movie when it came out, FLIR is rather damning to EVERYTHING the Government says about this Execution of Women and Children. They should all rot in Prison and for sure they will Rot IN HELL.
Anyone who knows anything about this raid can easily spot at least a dozen untruths in this account.
If this happens again, these jack booted thugs better be taking fire from all sides.
Yeah, and the gov’t is so innocent in all of this that they bull dozed the entire site, destroying evidence only 2 weeks after the event.
From what I have read the ATF had several chances to arrest Koresh outside the compound, and once when they managed to get inside before the final assault.
It appears the ATF wanted to make this a “showcase” raid to strike fear in other Americans.
Kind of like the “crucify” comment from a former fed not long ago.
No. There’s one key video which clearly shows an agent being shot thru a wall. Holes start appearing in the wall near him, then one in front of him (he’s facing the wall) and he falls over.
Check all the pictures and videos, they were special grnades that did not break the windows in any of the vehicles.
“The biggest thing that weighs on my mind is we cannot forget the four agents that were murdered that day.”
Oh, and by the way, there were kids killed too. Just in case anyone might care.
From the article: "In coming weeks we will hear from others who were inside the compound during the siege and fire, with a very different take on what happened there."
Twenty years later, and we’re still getting this lily-livered, mealy-mouthed bullsh*t from the crowd of losers who murdered the entire compound of Branch Davidians and never did so much as a minute of time for any of it.
The whole thing is a black stain on the history of the past thirty years.
I remember reading years ago about those four agents being tied to the Clintons during their arkansas years. The reason they were put up front and center was to be rid of them, but I cannot attest to that as I don’t even remember the source now.
As to who fired first, the missing door (yep, the BATF managed to lose the steel door) would have showed who fired what when, and may well have been the key piece of evidence proving the Davidians were attacked.
Something about shooting form helicopters, burning the building to hide the downward bullet holes from the overflights, and a host of other irregularities which have become SOP--like bulldozing the evidence within a week or two.
CNN even did their part during the congressional hearings, broadcasting the 5 minutes of Democrat "inquiry" and following that with 5 minutes of commercials designed to cover up the 5 minutes of questions from the Republican side of the aisle.
The hearings were available on C-SPAN, but only what they could fit in at the end of the normal activities of the House--which ended somewhere between 6PM and midnight, (a greater spread than a VHS tape could cover, by the time any hearing was broadcast) so you had to stay up to 3 AM on a weekday to watch.
At the time, this was one of the biggest whitewash jobs in US history.
Now, on the anniversary of the massacre, the meme is being pushed that the government did no wrong, that the "right wing wackos were all at fault', and not the government for assaulting a church group in their home.
Muslims aren't the only ones who burn churches with the people inside.
It was *not* “the biggest firefight in the history of American law enforcement”.
The Jayuya Uprising on October 30th, in Puerto Rico, which was so violent that Truman declared martial law, after a whole bunch of killing by and of police and other government officials, sent in the Army and Air Force, who machine gunned rooftops in revolting villages.
The Tulsa race riot of March, 1921, with officially 39 to 300 dead, 800 injured, 35 city blocks burned.
The Watts riots of 1967. 34 people were dead, more than 2,000 injured, and almost 4,000 arrested.
Not all that many were burned alive. Many were killed by the heavy concentration of CS tear gas which suffocated them or by the Phasogen gas once the fire started.
Under-discussed: between Waco and Ruby Ridge, the government never tried such high profile aggressive “dynamic entry” stunts again. The lesson was learned about cocky assaults on armed citizens.
Closest things we’ve seen were kidnapping of Elian Gonzales (a narrow instance targeting an unarmed little boy) and the NOLA confiscations (cut short by internal police consternation).
Now, still aware of those lessons, the current administration seeks to disarm the populace accordingly. The recent flurry of purchases has made clear this is not a good plan.
My mom was living in Waco when this happened. She saw the helicopters bringing in the wounded agents to the hospital by her house. It seems like I remember hearing about a mailman being tipped off about the raid and the mailman was a member of the group. I live in Dallas and I remember how the news kept talking about how Koresh was a child molester who was holding people there against their will in his cult.
Certainly someone could have pissed on their graves. But the ATF survived to sell arms to the Mexican drug cartels and hundred of people were killed as a result.
my theory on waco that I can never prove: Hillary ordered it. And could Vince Foster have somehow been involved and felt horrible guilt later?
I have seen many pictures from this firefight. I find it amazing that the Davidians could mount such a firefight, with .50 cal rifles and grenades, and leave the glass intact in all the vehicles the Feds were hiding behind. The amount of training to do that is surely impressive.
This story represents Official Reality at its best.
So did I.
“I live in Dallas and I remember how the news kept talking about how Koresh was a child molester who was holding people there against their will in his cult.”
Yes Janet Reno decided to put that out to garner public support.
This is the initial Feb 28th raid anniversary not the April 19th anniversary.
The leadership from that raid should have been in the fire themselves.
Bump for later
I have always been fairly conservative, but this incident and Ruby Ridge really sent me over the edge. Both of these events were nothing but political stunts performed by the ATF and the FBI ...and I will say nothing more as we are bieng monitored by the same criminal elements as before
The Branch Davidians did not have grenades and they did not have any .50 caliber weapons. They also didn’t have any anti-tank weapons as the media said they did and that’s a shame given that they could have used them.
“Both of these events were nothing but political stunts performed by the ATF and the FBI”
Sorry but I disagree, to call these political stunts grossly understates the seriousness of the event.
Still the largest mass murder in U.S. history.
Oh, well instead of burning alive they were chocked to death......
Doesn’t the 1967 Detroit riots beat Watts?
Can't recall ever seeing evidence that supports that, so I consider it as much a rumor as these new "grenades" that have been added to spice-up the story.