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Fla. sinkhole that swallowed man grows deeper
Yahoo!News ^ | March 2, 2013 | Tamara Lush

Posted on 03/02/2013 10:46:14 AM PST by Kaslin

SEFFNER, Fla. (AP) — Engineers worked gingerly Saturday morning to find out more about a slowly growing sinkhole that swallowed a Florida man in his bedroom, believing the entire house could eventually succumb to the unstable ground.

Jeff Bush, 37, was in his bedroom Thursday night when the earth opened and took him and everything else in his room. Five other people were in the house but managed to escape unharmed. Bush's brother jumped into the hole to try to help, but he had to be rescued himself by a sheriff's deputy.

Engineers began doing more tests at 7 a.m. Saturday. Crews with equipment were at the home next door, one of two that has been evacuated. By 10 a.m., officials moved media crews farther away from the Bush house so experts could perform tests on the home across the street. It's unclear how large the sinkhole is, or whether it leads to other caverns and chasms throughout the neighborhood. Experts say the underground of West Central Florida looks similar to Swiss cheese, with the geography lending itself to sinkholes.

Experts spent the previous day on the property, taking soil samples and running various tests — while acknowledging that the entire lot where Bush lay entombed was dangerous. No one was allowed in the home.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Florida
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1 posted on 03/02/2013 10:46:18 AM PST by Kaslin
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To: Kaslin

Bush’s fault.


2 posted on 03/02/2013 10:52:55 AM PST by ClearCase_guy (The ballot box is a sham. Nothing will change until after the war.)
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To: Kaslin

photo?


3 posted on 03/02/2013 10:54:25 AM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: Kaslin

Sequester’s fault — sign of things to come regarding the budget talks


4 posted on 03/02/2013 10:55:18 AM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: Kaslin

Global warming.


5 posted on 03/02/2013 11:07:20 AM PST by lurk
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To: ClearCase_guy

Erm - the family’s name is Bush. “Bush’s Fault” jokes may be inappropriate.


6 posted on 03/02/2013 11:10:57 AM PST by mrreaganaut (Coolidge 2016!)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Not Bush. it’s the Reagan tax cuts


7 posted on 03/02/2013 11:11:41 AM PST by Manta (Obama to issue executive order repealing laws of physics)
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To: yldstrk

No photo’s from inside the home that I’ve seen. Everyone is too scared of the sinkhole.


8 posted on 03/02/2013 11:12:27 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: mrreaganaut; ClearCase_guy

Clearcasely, it was just a joke.


9 posted on 03/02/2013 11:13:05 AM PST by Albion Wilde (If you're too busy to duck hunt or catch fish, you're too busy. --Jase Robertson, Duck Dynasty)
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To: Kaslin

Too bad this sinkhole is so far south. Imagine if it were a bigger sinkhole that swallowed Chicago!


10 posted on 03/02/2013 11:15:22 AM PST by MIchaelTArchangel (Have a wonderful day!)
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To: Kaslin
I've been reading about this. What an absolutely terrible thing to have happen to someone. The underground geography is limestone which is very soft. I wonder if anyone knew this when that neighborhood was built.

I know southern Indiana isn't known for sinkholes, but it is known for mining. I've been told that caverns extend many miles underground in and around places like Vincennes, Lyons, Linton, Crane Naval Base, etc.

I wonder what would happen to places in that area if/when the New Madrid fault slips again. I would bet whole towns would disappear into huge holes.

11 posted on 03/02/2013 11:17:00 AM PST by ducttape45
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To: Kaslin; All

I’m nearby, in Temple Terrace, and it’s quite likely that the weather may have been the contributing factor here. It’s the underlying limestone layer, which is very porous, which collapses, and causes the earth on top of it to drop down into the void. We haven’t had much rain lately, so the limestone was likely dry...the water that normally fills the spaces provides some support...so the limestone was under more pressure. We had a very heavy rainstorm the other day, and the heavy, rain-soaked soil was likely too much, and it all collapsed.


12 posted on 03/02/2013 11:18:24 AM PST by ken5050 ("One useless man is a shame, two are a law firm, three or more are a Congress".. John Adams)
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To: yldstrk

13 posted on 03/02/2013 11:19:50 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: ken5050

How do they know the man is dead? His brother survived jumping in to try to save him. Are we talking twenty, thirty, how many feet deep? Water at the bottom, flowing or still? This whole thing is alien to me, the soil here is red clay and bedrock is granite. Not too many underground caverns around. Not unheard of for a house to slide down a hill in a mudslide after a particularly heavy rain, but disappearing into a hole in the ground? Never.


14 posted on 03/02/2013 11:27:34 AM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: RegulatorCountry

When these go the ground usually collapses so he was likely buried in soil and loose rock. Yes there is water to worry about too as the water level in most areas of Florida is just a few feet down.


15 posted on 03/02/2013 11:34:30 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Kaslin

fracking!


16 posted on 03/02/2013 11:39:17 AM PST by urbanpovertylawcenter (where the law and poverty collide in an urban setting and sparks fly)
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To: Kaslin

My brother in law was trapped in a sinkhole in Texas once; he was riding a horse and his horse sunk to the point they were both trapped. Trying to free himself was impossible, the ranch crew worked most of the day with shovels to dig them out, the ground kept caving in as they dug. That was a small sinkhole, so I can understand why it was impossible to get the Florida man out. My brother in law had his head and shoulders out so could breathe, said it was terrifying anyway- similar to quicksand the more he or his horse struggled the more they became trapped.


17 posted on 03/02/2013 11:46:20 AM PST by Tammy8 (~Secure the border and deport all illegals- do it now! ~ Support our Troops!~)
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To: RegulatorCountry
Authorities are not saying much, but it's possible to figure out something from what the guy's brother..the one who tried to save him, said..He jumped into the hole, but his brother was already covered. The guy himself was quickly buried all the way up to his neck, and the first deputy on the scene just managed to pull him him out. The cop is a real hero, as he easily could have gone down the hole as well.

The entire sinkhole appears to be inside the walls of the house. All homes here are built on concrete slabs, and they are just poured onto the ground..a few inches thick..no rebar is used..so the hole opened up DIRECTLY under the slab..just happened that way...it's apparently almost the size of half the house..without the slab on top..they'd likely have noticed the ground collapsing..but suddenly the slab was just overstressed, and concrete will just fracture..often crumble, and everything went into the hole, and a lot came down on top of him..if the bed had been in a different spot, he might well have survived, been able to climb out..

FYI..here's a link to a very good article about sinkholes..with some amazing pics. There are also several good links within that article..

18 posted on 03/02/2013 12:09:10 PM PST by ken5050 ("One useless man is a shame, two are a law firm, three or more are a Congress".. John Adams)
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To: ken5050; All
FYI..local cable news station Bay News 9 has very coverage, including video clips and LIVE broadcast updates fro the scene.
19 posted on 03/02/2013 12:16:44 PM PST by ken5050 ("One useless man is a shame, two are a law firm, three or more are a Congress".. John Adams)
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To: Kaslin
Jeremy Bush said someone came out to the home a couple of months ago to check for sinkholes and other things, apparently for insurance purposes.

"He said there was nothing wrong with the house. Nothing. And a couple of months later, my brother dies. In a sinkhole," Bush said.

Just another phony inspection scam. Somebody takes a one day class and gets a phony inspector certificate. Then hires himself out to insurance companies to certify homes for insurance purposes.

I walk around your house with a metal rod and stick in the ground every few feet. The rod meets resistance to penetrating the ground. Presto your house is certified to be safe from sink holes.

Now if the guy had ground penetrating radar I might think he had a chance of predicting a problem. But not just walking around the house.

20 posted on 03/02/2013 12:20:53 PM PST by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: ken5050

I went diving at Devils Den a couple hours north. I was amazed that the ground is just a honeycomb of limestone. Its kinda scary to think how little there is holding us up.


21 posted on 03/02/2013 12:22:25 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: yldstrk

Photos of the sink hole in the house? There are none, to unsafe I suppose


22 posted on 03/02/2013 12:24:28 PM PST by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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To: Pontiac

They don’t even really look at the ground. The look at the house for signs of settling or cracking. If your walls don’t have large cracks and your slab doesn’t have cracks bigger than 1/4 inch they say everythings fine.


23 posted on 03/02/2013 12:25:21 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: ken5050

Thanks for the explanation.
I was trying to figure out the mechanics of this since the house is still sort of standing.

I wonder if current building codes call for any rebar in the slab?


24 posted on 03/02/2013 12:25:45 PM PST by nascarnation (Baraq's economic policy: trickle up poverty)
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To: RegulatorCountry

They assume he is dead


25 posted on 03/02/2013 12:26:14 PM PST by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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To: RegulatorCountry

His brother was pulled out by a cop


26 posted on 03/02/2013 12:28:06 PM PST by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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To: MIchaelTArchangel
Too bad this sinkhole is so far south. Imagine if it were a bigger sinkhole that swallowed Chicago!

I was thinking DC, under the Capital, with Obama addressing a joint session. A man can dream can't he?

Regards,
GtG

27 posted on 03/02/2013 12:32:08 PM PST by Gandalf_The_Gray (I live in my own little world, I like it 'cuz they know me here.)
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To: ken5050; Kaslin
FROM THE LINK ken5050 posted...

Sinkholes are a worldwide phenomenon—geologists estimate that 10 percent of Earth’s surface (including the entirety of Florida) is shaped by dissolving bedrock prone to sinkholes, a type of landscape called karst topography. Nearly every U.S. state is covered at least in part by karst topography and sinkholes are considered most common in Florida, Texas, Alabama, Missouri, Kentucky, Tennessee, and Pennsylvania. Check out the U.S. Geological Survey’s map of the U.S.’s karst areas here.

28 posted on 03/02/2013 12:32:43 PM PST by smoothsailing
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To: ken5050

As far as I am concerned they are giving far to easy permission for contractors to built where ever they please with out regard if it is safe to built.


29 posted on 03/02/2013 12:33:41 PM PST by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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To: Kaslin

Such a terrible case of bad luck for the people in involved.
Makes you wonder about the randomness of death. One minute, you are sleeping peacefully. The next minute, you and your whole bedroom get sucked into a black void.


30 posted on 03/02/2013 12:35:41 PM PST by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters of Freedom, Committee of Correspondence)
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To: smoothsailing

KARST

That’s the term I keep forgetting.

For those curious about how these thgs happen, run a Google search on “KARST”, looking at the definitions and images (right after you tie yourself off to something that won’t sink. <:^)


31 posted on 03/02/2013 12:43:44 PM PST by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: ducttape45

“The underground geography is limestone which is very soft. I wonder if anyone knew this when that neighborhood was built.”

Limestone pretty much underlies most of Florida, if not all. There are some gigantic springs there draining the aquafer extending up into Georgia. Underwater caves extend miles. The area is dynamic in geologic terms and the water table is just beneath the surface. Sinkholes opening up there are nothing new. People living on them is what is new. What a horrible tragedy.

If southern Indiana has caves, it has sinkholes along with the whole underground drainage systems and springs associated with them. They just don’t open up and swallow people.


32 posted on 03/02/2013 12:54:19 PM PST by Owl558 ("Those who remember George Satayana are doomed to repeat him")
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To: ducttape45
Southern Indiana not known for sinkholes? Are you kidding me? (!)

If there is limestone there are caves, and underground water, and sinkholes. Southern Indiana is atop one vast limestone shelf.

Consider Cliffty Falls, Falls of the Ohio, the entire Ohio River basin for that matter, Lost River, the quarries at Bedford and Bloomington, the under ground quarries at Mill Town, the endless sinkholes at Spring Mill plus it's famous caves, etc.

Linton? That's coal county, shale and clay. Different animal.

33 posted on 03/02/2013 12:55:49 PM PST by M.K. Borders (All I require of my government is the liberty my Grandfathers were born to.)
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To: ken5050
...it’s quite likely that the weather may have been the contributing factor here. It’s the underlying limestone layer, which is very porous, which collapses, and causes the earth on top of it to drop down into the void. We haven’t had much rain lately...

That, and the population growth in Florida.

The slow draining of the Everglades from decades of population growth in South Florida also contributed to water shortages years ago.

-PJ

34 posted on 03/02/2013 1:01:35 PM PST by Political Junkie Too (If you are the Posterity of We the People, then you are a Natural Born Citizen.)
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To: Political Junkie Too

Usually requires more water flow below surface through the limestone to chemically react, change physical properties, displace, and allow for mass flow out of the area.


35 posted on 03/02/2013 1:04:23 PM PST by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: 3Fingas

Makes you wonder about the randomness of death....Not to ridicule anything, But did you ever wonder if God got up one morning, looked down and said” I’M PISSED AT YOU!” and that’s why the guy got hit by a sinkhole, plane fell on him, Jihadists came screaming out of the alley? Jus’ asking.


36 posted on 03/02/2013 1:05:11 PM PST by Safetgiver ( Islam makes barbarism look genteel.)
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To: Kaslin

Time for eyeglasses for me. I thought it said Jeb Bush fell into a sinkhole.


37 posted on 03/02/2013 1:06:24 PM PST by Patriot Babe
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To: RegulatorCountry

The rescue squads very early on did some testing (thermal or sonography?) and detected no signs of life.


38 posted on 03/02/2013 1:08:10 PM PST by EDINVA
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To: EDINVA

Good grief, I hope he went in his sleep or it was very quick, then. What a hellish way to go.


39 posted on 03/02/2013 1:13:00 PM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: Safetgiver

That’s possible, but in this case we will never know.

I tend to think that bad luck often befalls many people who probably don’t deserve it. Why? I don’t know. Hopefully, there is a greater good that comes out of it all. All one can do is try to live a good life and pray that you don’t get sucked into a sink hole or some become a victim of some other unexpected demise.


40 posted on 03/02/2013 1:14:31 PM PST by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters of Freedom, Committee of Correspondence)
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To: Albion Wilde

hi, Alb

First I heard of this was on WMAL yesterday. The radio had just been background noise, then I heard, or thought I heard, “Jeb Bush was swallowed up in sinkhole in FL. His brother tried to rescue him...” Strange, indeed.


41 posted on 03/02/2013 1:17:01 PM PST by EDINVA
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To: RegulatorCountry

Poor guy apparently had several minutes of sheer, unimaginable terror. He was (it seems) awakened as his whole bedroom was being sucked into the sinkhole and screamed for his brother who went running to help. The brother was being sucked in, too, but was rescued by a First Responder.

So he did know what was happening. And his brother will live with the sounds of his screams and the sense of helplessness at his inability to rescue him. Hopefully, the surviving brother gets some serious help.


42 posted on 03/02/2013 1:29:28 PM PST by EDINVA
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To: ducttape45
I know southern Indiana isn't known for sinkholes, but it is known for mining. I've been told that caverns extend many miles underground in and around places like Vincennes, Lyons, Linton, Crane Naval Base, etc.

I wonder what would happen to places in that area if/when the New Madrid fault slips again. I would bet whole towns would disappear into huge holes.

The Upper Peninsula of Michigan was also mining country. Copper up near the shores with Lake Superior and iron ore nearer to the Wisconsin border. Early on they used core drills to locate pockets of iron ore under hilly areas. When they found a large pocket near the surface, they moved down into the valley next to the ore pocket and cut a drift (horizontal tunnel) with a slight upward slope so that water and loaded ore cars would run out by gravity. When they got to the ore pocket that mined out anything they could reach, creating a stope (empty pocket). It was all "hard-rock" mining so they used very little if any shoring to hold the "roof" up. If they got too greedy, the result was an immediate "cave-in", killing all the miners working that shift.

Drift and stope mining was quick and dirty and eventually all the easy ore was gone so they started dropping vertical shafts with a hoisting engine to haul out the muck (rocks and waste) and later ore. The hoisting engine also brought miners to their various drifts on different levels. The deeper they went the bigger the ore pockets became and they continued their practice of taking all the ore out to bare rock, both horizontally and vertically with no shoring.

The Keel Ridge mine just outside of Iron Mountain Michigan collapsed on April 14, 1883 leaving a depression about 1/4 mile wide by 1/2 mile long with a depth of about 200 yards. It collapsed directly around the main shaft, taking the hoisting engine, boiler room and pump works into the pit and burying them under the rubble. Just north of downtown Iron Mountain there is a causeway crossing a good sized lake. The lake is named "Chapin Mine" as it is the collapsed stope of a mine by that name, filled in by ground water.

Norway Michigan has a problem with buildings slowly subsiding as slopes begin to fail at greater depth. Cars driving US 2 at night have dropped into sinkholes that appeared suddenly. Living in abandoned mining country is always interesting...

Regards,
GtG

43 posted on 03/02/2013 1:38:07 PM PST by Gandalf_The_Gray (I live in my own little world, I like it 'cuz they know me here.)
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To: Kaslin

I hate to be so callous but that is one less Bush to run for POTUS.


44 posted on 03/02/2013 1:48:55 PM PST by certrtwngnut (')
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To: Kaslin

My guess he is in a side passage leading to who knows where.


45 posted on 03/02/2013 1:54:41 PM PST by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 .....The fairest Deduction to be reduced is the Standard Deduction)
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To: 3Fingas; Safetgiver

“He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.” Matthew 5:45

It’s important to remember that God’s will is to draw all men to Him. Judgement Day is not yet...


46 posted on 03/02/2013 1:58:46 PM PST by dubyagee ("I can't complain, but sometimes I still do.")
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To: certrtwngnut
I hate to be so callous but that is one less Bush to run for POTUS.

Go see a shrink who will help you to get over your BDS (that is Bush Derangement Syndrome. What makes you think they are relation to President Bush 41, 43 and Jeb Bush?

Do you realize there are 95,318 people in the U.S. with the last name Bush?

You are a certified wingnut alright

47 posted on 03/02/2013 2:04:09 PM PST by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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To: dubyagee

Yes, I believe that.


48 posted on 03/02/2013 2:05:51 PM PST by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters of Freedom, Committee of Correspondence)
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To: ducttape45

My neighborhood is full of sinkholes. They are of uniform depth. The phenomenon is known as a karst region. The sinkholes are actually collapsed cave rooms connected by smaller passages. My house is on top and I feel certain three is a passage below. One day when I get rich, I’ll rent a ground penetrating radar to see what’s down there.

As a former caver I have sen such many times. The floors of the rooms always contain large pieces of rock that have broken down and fallen from the ceilings above. The breakdown forms a natural structural arch similar to that of a domed building.

Recently I saw a program called Blue Grass Underground filmed in the Volcano Room that seats 400 comfortably.


49 posted on 03/02/2013 2:05:54 PM PST by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 .....The fairest Deduction to be reduced is the Standard Deduction)
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To: certrtwngnut
I hate to be so callous but that is one less Bush to run for POTUS.

Unfortunately, we still have with us all of the humorless!

50 posted on 03/02/2013 2:07:26 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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