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Sephardic Jews invited back to Spain after 500 years
BBC News ^ | 6th March 2013 | Gerry Hadden

Posted on 03/06/2013 9:48:32 AM PST by the scotsman

'More than 500 years ago, tens of thousands of Jews fled Spain because of persecution. Now their descendants are being invited to return.

Before the infamous Spanish Inquisition of the 15th Century, some 300,000 Jews lived in Spain. It was one of the largest communities of Jews in the world.

Today, there are about 40,000 or 50,000 - but that number could be about to swell dramatically.

In November, Spain's justice minister Alberto Ruiz-Gallardon announced a plan to give descendants of Spain's original Jewish community - known as Sephardic Jews - a fast-track to a Spanish passport and Spanish citizenship.

"In the long journey Spain has undertaken to rediscover a part of itself, few occasions are as moving as today," he said.

Anyone who could prove their Spanish Jewish origins, he said, would be given Spanish nationality.'

(Excerpt) Read more at bbc.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: jews; spain; worldhistory
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1 posted on 03/06/2013 9:48:42 AM PST by the scotsman
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To: the scotsman

I did not expect that.


2 posted on 03/06/2013 9:52:51 AM PST by Pollster1
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To: the scotsman

Trying to add some balance to the influx of muslims...?


3 posted on 03/06/2013 9:58:23 AM PST by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - they want to die for islam and we want to kill them)
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To: the scotsman

Trying to lure them out of Israel and into European camps again, are they?


4 posted on 03/06/2013 10:01:29 AM PST by Hardraade (http://junipersec.wordpress.com (Vendetta))
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To: Pollster1; Peanut Gallery

No one the Sephardic Invitation!!


5 posted on 03/06/2013 10:01:29 AM PST by Professional Engineer (So long and thanks for all the lutefisk.)
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To: the scotsman

Jews were allies of the Muslims during the conquest of Spain. They along with Muslims were given an amnesty of a kind after the Spanish recounquered their land. Now the Muslims are back so it only makes sense to invite Jews too. Maybe this time it will be different.


6 posted on 03/06/2013 10:01:49 AM PST by Varda
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To: Pollster1; Peanut Gallery

No one expects the Sephardic Invitation!!


7 posted on 03/06/2013 10:02:18 AM PST by Professional Engineer (So long and thanks for all the lutefisk.)
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To: 2banana
probably more like because they have money

I guess spain is just like wimmen , no money they want you dead, got money they magically love, love, love ya

8 posted on 03/06/2013 10:02:32 AM PST by KTM rider ( paychecks have been replaced by weekly allowances)
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To: Pollster1
"It's a trap!"

 photo spanish_inquisition.jpg
9 posted on 03/06/2013 10:03:07 AM PST by PowderMonkey (WILL WORK FOR AMMO)
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To: the scotsman

Well, this Sepharic Jewish guy respectfully tells them “no thanks.”

I am actually named after a great-great-great grandfather they burned at the stake.


10 posted on 03/06/2013 10:04:50 AM PST by MeanWestTexan (Beware Obama's Reichstag Fire.)
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To: the scotsman
Most "Sephardim" today are actually Mizrachim.

Very few people speak Ladino these days.

The original Sephardim were largely absorbed into Mizrachi and Ashkenazi communities.

11 posted on 03/06/2013 10:05:41 AM PST by wideawake
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To: the scotsman

There’s a Sephardic Jewish community in India who fled to there when the Crusaders slaughtered most and drove the rest out, and again during the Inquisition when the settled community in India were persecuted by the Portuguese trying to establish a colony there.

Google Cochin Jewish Copper Plates for more info. It’s quite interesting.


12 posted on 03/06/2013 10:10:29 AM PST by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
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To: the scotsman

I’ve never heard of a country trying to make amends in this way. More power to them for trying to do something to set things right.


13 posted on 03/06/2013 10:14:41 AM PST by married21
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To: the scotsman

Mark


14 posted on 03/06/2013 10:17:11 AM PST by sport
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To: MeanWestTexan

“I am actually named after a great-great-great grandfather they burned at the stake”

That’s funny. MeanWestTexan doesn’t sound Jewish..


15 posted on 03/06/2013 10:20:20 AM PST by saleman
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To: the scotsman
a plan to give descendants of Spain's original Jewish community - known as Sephardic Jews - a fast-track to a Spanish passport and Spanish citizenship

Dear Spanish,

Hey, no prob. Our boat came to New York in 1664. We kind of like it here. And after all these years, we did decide you guys were right. Not only that, Isabella is a cool name.

Viva Cristo Rey,

Us

P.S. On the Moslem thing, sorry about playing for the wrong team. That was dumb. Those guys turned out to be real dirt-bags.

16 posted on 03/06/2013 10:24:51 AM PST by SamuraiScot
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To: married21

I am still waiting on my reparations from the Italians for the Romans enslaving most of Europe for 100’s years.


17 posted on 03/06/2013 10:26:53 AM PST by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama lied .. the economy died.)
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To: the scotsman

Ya think SOMEONE in Spain was reading THIS:

Genesis 12:1-3
King James Version (KJV)

12 Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father’s house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.


18 posted on 03/06/2013 10:29:09 AM PST by US Navy Vet (Go Packers! Go Rockies! Go Boston Bruins! See, I'm "Diverse"!)
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To: KTM rider

Yup. They apparently have figured out that hating Jews and supporting Muslims is not a way to grow the economy...


19 posted on 03/06/2013 10:31:20 AM PST by miss marmelstein ( Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: saleman

Actually, there are many descendants of Sephardic Jews in Northern Mexico and South Texas.

http://www.myharlingennews.com/?p=5687

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1337161/posts


20 posted on 03/06/2013 10:38:51 AM PST by RedWhiteBlue (Mama tried)
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To: wideawake
y be mistaken, but didn't a lot of Sephardic Jews come to the US, esp. NY City?
21 posted on 03/06/2013 10:39:21 AM PST by quadrant (1o)
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To: quadrant
didn't a lot of Sephardic Jews come to the US, esp. NY City

What defines "a lot" is the question. A few thousand, maybe.

But their descendants began the Reform movement and were more or less absorbed into the general population, or into the larger Ashkenazi communities that arrived in the 1800s.

The original Sephardic synagogues in the US are now either museums or have Ashkenazi congregations.

22 posted on 03/06/2013 10:49:31 AM PST by wideawake
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To: the scotsman; MeanWestTexan

Spain has been in a serious decline for a long time-I’m pretty sure they just want individuals with a real work ethic to immigrate to Spain to work and pay taxes to support their socialist welfare state. I hope no one buys into it.

My ancestors weren’t Jewish, but they had sense enough to leave Spain for the Spanish territory in the New World in the 1600’s...


23 posted on 03/06/2013 10:54:53 AM PST by Texan5 ("You've got to saddle up your boys, you've got to draw a hard line"...)
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To: the scotsman

" 'Cause the Inquisition's here and it's here to stay!"

24 posted on 03/06/2013 10:57:42 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: wideawake
My only problem with the Sephardics (we have tons of them at the Jersey Shore) is that their healthy diet is becoming really popular and pushing out the Ashkenazim food culture of pastrami and matzo ball soup. You can't find an old-fashioned Jewish cookbook these days - it's all “middle eastern” stuff.
25 posted on 03/06/2013 11:19:44 AM PST by miss marmelstein ( Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: married21

> “I’ve never heard of a country trying to make amends in this way. More power to them for trying to do something to set things right.”<

I disagree. I find absurd the whole concept of trying to remedy wrongs that took place in the distant past. It’s too late to help those who really suffered, and the descendents of neither the perpetrators nor the wronged are closely related to their ancestors.

At four generations a century — with the genetic connection being halved at each generation — even a descendant from someone in 1800 is only 1/256 connected. For 1500, a few years after the 1492 expulsion, the connection would be 1/1048576 (if I’ve calculated correctly). Less than one millionth. Of course, I’d expect a Sephardic descendent to have many Sephardic ancestors, but still there would be dilution across the centuries.

In any case the moral debt or entitlement is simply not there. The advantage of automatic Spanish citizenship may be a minor one (and I doubt that many persons of Sephardic origin would want to take advantage of it). Still, I think giving it is unfair to others.


26 posted on 03/06/2013 11:20:15 AM PST by GJones2 (Nations trying to redress wrongs of past centuries)
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To: wideawake
My only problem with the Sephardics (we have tons of them at the Jersey Shore) is that their healthy diet is becoming really popular and pushing out the Ashkenazim food culture of pastrami and matzo ball soup. You can't find an old-fashioned Jewish cookbook these days - it's all “middle eastern” stuff.
27 posted on 03/06/2013 11:20:38 AM PST by miss marmelstein ( Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: married21

If countries or regions must return to their ethnic makeup of 1492, then Americans of European ancestry, start packing your bags! I’m supposedly about 1/16 Indian and the rest European (culturally entirely European). Where do I go — 15/16 of the way back across the Atlantic?

Even injustices of mere decades ago are difficult to redress. To use ethnic origin to try to do that with events that happened centuries ago serves only to create new injustices. It’s a form of racism. It judges people by their ethnic background rather than as individuals.


28 posted on 03/06/2013 11:22:42 AM PST by GJones2 (Nations trying to redress wrongs of past centuries)
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To: the scotsman

Sure some Jews were burned at the stake but it was done in the spirit of Christian love and the fires weren’t really all that hot.


29 posted on 03/06/2013 11:28:33 AM PST by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
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To: the scotsman
Some went to North Africa, but most settled in the economic powerhouse of the day, the Ottoman Empire...

Those with serious money settled in Naples. My maternal line was of Spanish Jewish lineage, and they found a home in Naples. where they did well enough to come to America in 1909.

Funny, I even look Jewish.

30 posted on 03/06/2013 11:31:16 AM PST by Publius
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To: Varda

“Jews were allies of the Muslims during the conquest of Spain. They along with Muslims were given an amnesty of a kind after the Spanish recounquered their land.”

Wow, talk about a half-truth.

There were just as many Jews on the side of Spain as against the muslims, especially in the Spanish Navy where they proved to be excellent seamen.

The reason for the Expulsion and Inquision (according the official Roman Catholic Church apology) was greed. The Jews had done well in Spain and had lent money to the royals and the Church who jointly concocted bullshit excuses to force conversions and/or kick them out of the country.

I am 100% proud Roman Catholic, and I am sick and tired of schismatics like you who sully the work we have done to recocile with the very un-Christlike things we stupid humans did in the name of His Church.


31 posted on 03/06/2013 11:33:40 AM PST by TheThirdRuffian (RINOS like Romney, McCain, Dole are sure losers. No more!)
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To: saleman; TheThirdRuffian

There are a bunch of old Sephardic families in West Texas, Mexico, and New Mexico.

The old Mexican presidente — Vincente Fox, among them.


32 posted on 03/06/2013 11:35:26 AM PST by TheThirdRuffian (RINOS like Romney, McCain, Dole are sure losers. No more!)
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To: Travis McGee
Ping.

Luis Carvahal.

33 posted on 03/06/2013 11:40:14 AM PST by Publius
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To: the scotsman

The Jewish ‘Golden Age’ in Spain was ended not by Christians, but by fanatical Muslims in the 12th century. That was the first wave of Sefardic Jews that spread far and wide, though it was soon followed by the Crusades.

http://www.aish.com/jl/h/cc/48950501.html


34 posted on 03/06/2013 11:43:53 AM PST by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: TheThirdRuffian
The reference may be to the original Muslim conquest in the 700s--the Jews were not happy with how they had been treated by the Visigoths, if I remember correctly.

Ivo Andric was a Nobel-Prize-winning writer from Bosnia. In one of his novels, Bosnian Chronicle, set in Travnik in the Napoleonic era, he has a Sephardic Jewish man thinking about what a wonderful life his ancestors had had in Spain until they were forced to leave.

35 posted on 03/06/2013 11:47:10 AM PST by Verginius Rufus
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To: GJones2

I guess I had put it in the same category as the Catholic Church apologizing about Galileo 400 years after the fact. It doesn’t change much, but it’s important to apologize, for the character development of the apologizer, as much as anything.

Of course,I didn’t think about the resulting law suits and such.


36 posted on 03/06/2013 11:56:51 AM PST by married21
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To: miss marmelstein
That's really just Israeli cuisine, which is largely Arabic cuisine.

Traditional Sephardic fare was closer to Turkish food, which is heavier - there is such a thing as Turkish pastrami (pastirma) and also savory kugels (budinca) and cholents (chamin).

37 posted on 03/06/2013 12:04:15 PM PST by wideawake
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To: TheThirdRuffian
It's called simple history. Generalizations are the norm when talking about historical groups. It says nothing about what some individuals may have done. I doubt this Jewish author considers his work a "half-truth" when he says,
"According to surviving records, Jews helped the Arabs in many places. From Syria to Spain, they opened city gates to the besieging armies; and in Spain, they often garrisoned the captured cities to enable the Muslims to sweep on to further conquests. " (Lucien Gubbay -The Jews of Arabia)

"The reason for the Expulsion and Inquision (according the official Roman Catholic Church apology) was greed."

Do you have a link for this?

38 posted on 03/06/2013 12:50:34 PM PST by Varda
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To: wideawake

Thanks for the info! You make me want to go out to Katz’s for a pastrami sandwich, a knish,and a celery soda!


39 posted on 03/06/2013 2:09:38 PM PST by miss marmelstein ( Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; Lent; GregB; ..
Middle East and terrorism, occasional political and Jewish issues Ping List. High Volume

If you’d like to be on or off, please FR mail me.

..................

This article doesn't mention it, but North African Muslims are going bat sh*t, claiming this is a racist act and that the millions of "Sephardic Muslims" must be offered citizenship as well. They'll find tens of millions if they're successful getting citizenship. Then they'll work on France and Italy, parts of which also belong to the Ummah.

40 posted on 03/06/2013 3:36:04 PM PST by SJackson (The Pilgrims—Doing the jobs Native Americans wouldn’t do !)
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To: the scotsman

It’s a trap. Even without Jews, Spain is one of the most antisemitic countries in Europe. And Muslims will be invited next to kill the Jews.


41 posted on 03/06/2013 4:05:25 PM PST by rmlew ("Mosques are our barracks, minarets our bayonets, domes our helmets, the believers our soldiers.")
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To: Varda
Jews were allies of the Muslims during the conquest of Spain.
Not exactly. Vandal occupied Hispania was divided between Nicean/Roman Christians and Arianist Vandals. Vandals had there own crusades against Nicean Creed following Chritians.
The Arainist Vandals were forcible converting the proto-Catholics and Jews, or expelling them. The Pro-to-catholic dukes were fighting the Arianists and expelling Arianist subjects, while simply treating Jews horribly.
The Muslims invaded and promised relative religious freedom, but with taxation. Blaming the Jews for collaborating is both stupid and wrong, since Catholics collaborted. The problem was the Arianist-Catholic wars. But right wing Catholics today revise history. It's pathetic civilizational treason, since they are doubling down on the errors that allowed the Muslims to conquer with a small force.
42 posted on 03/06/2013 4:12:02 PM PST by rmlew ("Mosques are our barracks, minarets our bayonets, domes our helmets, the believers our soldiers.")
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To: SJackson

North African Muslims are nuts, and will use this as a pretext for yet further invasion. So is Spain. So is any Sephardic Jew who takes up this idiotic offer. They have some cultural residue from Spain, but that’s all. Why go back? To be beaten to death by Muslims? We have our own country now, and the Muslims here would be only too happy to oblige anyone who wants to be beaten to death, but for the IDF and armed mitnahalim.


43 posted on 03/06/2013 4:13:46 PM PST by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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To: RedWhiteBlue

“descendants of Sephardic Jews in Northern Mexico and South Texas.”

There was a buzz about Carlos Santana being Jewish origin


44 posted on 03/06/2013 4:25:24 PM PST by dennisw (too much of a good thing is a bad thing --- Joe Pine)
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To: SJackson

Thanks. I figured as much. Spain is stupid to make such an offer that few Jews will be interested in but milions of Muzzies will agitate to get the same offer. It could be the Spanish leftists are using this as a sly way to bring in more Muslims who claim Spanish heritage and who will vote left....until they get strong enough to set up their own Muslim political parties. History has shown this


45 posted on 03/06/2013 4:49:56 PM PST by dennisw (too much of a good thing is a bad thing --- Joe Pine)
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To: rmlew

The problem was the Muslim conquest of Spain. Your post is mostly excuse making for the fact that some Jews collaborated. Whether the excuse looks good to you or whether Catholics collaborated or not is immaterial. One group won a war to regain their native territory. They identified other groups as their former enemies. This is a cultural definition, one they had a right to make. This kind of tribalism is a common trait in Europe and among many Americans. My point is that it shapes history and causes events in one century to have profound effects in others.


46 posted on 03/06/2013 4:57:15 PM PST by Varda
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To: the scotsman

Spain may want and need Jews.

But Jews do not want or need Spain.

JMO.


47 posted on 03/06/2013 6:02:08 PM PST by left that other site (Worry is the darkroom that developes negatives.)
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To: the scotsman

” some Muslim scholars are denouncing the offer as unfair. They point out that their ancestors were expelled from Spain during the Inquisition. But no-one is inviting them back.”

He’s joking, right?


48 posted on 03/07/2013 7:56:32 AM PST by ZULU (See: http://gatesofvienna.net/)
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To: Publius

Do I know you in real life?


49 posted on 03/07/2013 7:57:24 AM PST by MeanWestTexan (Beware Obama's Reichstag Fire.)
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To: PowderMonkey

NO ONE EXPECTS ............ THE SPANISH INQUISITION!!!!!


50 posted on 03/07/2013 7:59:40 AM PST by ZULU (See: http://gatesofvienna.net/)
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