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We Might be Muslim Today if....
American Thinker ^ | March 8, 2013 | Selwyn Duke

Posted on 03/10/2013 12:10:08 AM PST by neverdem

The year is 632 A.D., and Muslim hordes have set their sights on the Mideast and North Africa -- the old Christian world. And the Caliphate, as the Islamic realm is called, will not be denied. Syria and Iraq fall in 636. Palestine is next in 638. And Byzantine Egypt and North Africa, not even Arab lands, are conquered by 642 and 709, respectively. Then, just two years later, the Muslims cross the Strait of Gibraltar and enter Iberia (now Spain and Portugal). The invasion of Europe has begun.

And the new continent seems no impediment to Islam. After vanquishing much of Visigothic Iberia by 718, the Muslims cross the Pyrenees Mountains into Gaul (now France) and move northward. Now it is 732, and they are approaching Tours, a mere 126 miles from Paris. The Western world -- what's left of Christendom -- could very well be on its way to extinction.

Europe is currently easy prey, comprising disunited, often belligerent kingdoms and duchies recently decimated by plague. In contrast, the Islamic world is a burgeoning civilization; so much so, in fact, that it views the Europeans as barbarians. The Muslims also command enormous battle-hardened...

--snip--

And that is why I defend them today. No, they weren't perfectly executed, nor could they achieve all their objectives any more than the Cold War truly vanquished the left. Evil is always afoot. But note that the Mideast and North Africa had more Christians than Europe at the time of the early Muslim invasions -- but no one to Crusade for them. Thus, it's easy to imagine that, were it not for our hammering medieval heroes, we could well be what the Mideast is today. And unless we shelve multiculturalism and become what those crusaders were yesterday, we may not have a tomorrow.

(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: crusades; islam; islamichistory; mohammedans; muhammedans

1 posted on 03/10/2013 12:10:08 AM PST by neverdem
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To: neverdem

If not for the Catholic Church, we would not have the Bible, we would not have survived the Islamic invasion. This was part of Christ’s promise, that the gates of hell would not prevail against it. And that is why to this day we need to support the Church and defeat Islam.


2 posted on 03/10/2013 12:44:30 AM PST by FatherofFive (Islam is evil and must be eradicated)
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To: FatherofFive
The Catholic church didn't write the Bible, nor do I believe we have the Bible because of the Catholic church, so I would argue the thing to defend is the Bible ... The Scriptures rather than the Catholic church.

The teaching to have no other gods before God is given to us by God

3 posted on 03/10/2013 3:36:28 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: neverdem

Arabs like to cite the Crusades while ignoring multiple invasions of Europe by Muslims.


4 posted on 03/10/2013 3:56:47 AM PDT by Brad from Tennessee (A politician can't give you anything he hasn't first stolen from you.)
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To: FatherofFive
If not for the Catholic Church, we would not have the Bible, ...

You are well indoctrinated. As the Muslim world, you have been taught from birth that there is only one way to God.

Yet, you have a group of MEN who claim to be direct conduits for God's Grace. This same group of alleged Holy men is filled with pederasts and homosexuals, and protected by those to whom they claim allegiance.

The Roman Catholic Church may have given the world some good things, but it does not speak for God. It only speaks for the Church, and requires membership in an organization of men for Salvation. It glories in it's riches and brags about it's supposed dispensation of the only truth.

The RC's build idols and worship to them, yet decry that as nothing more than "adoration". They elevate persons to sainthood status, yet they cannot accept the Scriptures saying that God is NOT A RESPECTER of persons.

The Roman Catholic Church has no hold on the truth. Only Jesus is the way, the Truth, and the Life...

Show the role of the RC organization in the Scriptures... without the overview provided by your leaders. I doubt it can be done.

The RCC is the ultimate "do as I say, not what I do"!

Paul made clear about the Roman Church:
Romans 8: 9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.

12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship.[f] And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory. ...

5 posted on 03/10/2013 4:16:10 AM PDT by WVKayaker ("I've seen how nasty it can be for other conservatives as well. "-Sarah Palin 12/17/12)
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To: WVKayaker
Guys, I kinda hate to point this out, being a rabid Evangelical and all... but prior to the Great Schism of the 11th century, the Catholic Church was the Church, and the Church was the Catholic Church.

So yeah. If not for the church, we would not have the Bible; this is not in doubt. That the church was Catholic at the time is not in doubt either.

6 posted on 03/10/2013 4:41:36 AM PDT by Oberon (Big Brutha Be Watchin'.)
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To: WVKayaker

Before this completely breaks out in to a Catholic bashing thread -

I did want to say thanks for posting the article!

PS - Only Catholics go to heaven. (kidding)


7 posted on 03/10/2013 4:46:50 AM PDT by pkmaine
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To: neverdem

BTTT


8 posted on 03/10/2013 4:57:39 AM PDT by hattend (Firearms and ammunition...the only growing industries under the Obama regime.)
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To: neverdem

Just remember college students, virtually everything your leftist history professor told you about how things happened is probably false. Leftists by nature are virtually incapable of telling the complete truth about anything. They might tell you particulars that are correct, by they cannot and will not tell you the compete truth.


9 posted on 03/10/2013 5:01:59 AM PDT by driftless2
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To: Oberon; WVKayaker; FatherofFive

>> So yeah. If not for the church, we would not have the Bible; this is not in doubt.

Doubtful there’s any historical evidence, post Alexandria, to the contrary.


10 posted on 03/10/2013 5:07:20 AM PDT by Gene Eric (The Palin Doctrine.)
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To: knarf

I propose that the Vulgate translation of St. Jerome is as much a product of the Catholic Church as anything. The Greek originals were pre-catholic, and the Catholic did work hard to get rid of the gospels of St. Thomas, St. Peter and many others.

In short, coupled with the preservation of some texts, the catholic worked hard to suppress others.


11 posted on 03/10/2013 5:09:52 AM PDT by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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To: Oberon

Well put Oberon...I am Catholic and I get frustrated with all the ideas put out there that don’t jive with history....God Bless...


12 posted on 03/10/2013 5:14:04 AM PDT by bike800
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To: Oberon
So yeah. If not for the church, we would not have the Bible; this is not in doubt.

Yeah, God had nothing to do or say about it. He has no power to guide human hearts and minds. The Holy Spirit cannot possibly lead us to all Truth... /sarcasm!

I pray for those who think ANY church ORGANIZATION is the lead in this battle. Death is the only end possible of that, and death is eternal separation from God. That the RCC organization has endured through the years is only because of the indoctrination begun at birth. Beginning with infant baptism, and selling the idea that you can eat Jesus body and drink His blood, or asking His mom (Mary) for a little help in reaching Him. They only offer ritual and rote...

FRiends, the church is not an organization founded in Rome, nor Constantinople. The church is the body of believers, universal, that God has called to His bosom from time eternal. As to where our Scriptures come from, Paul wrote about it:

2 Timothy 3: 10 You, however, know all about my teaching, my way of life, my purpose, faith, patience, love, endurance, 11 persecutions, sufferings—what kinds of things happened to me in Antioch, Iconium and Lystra, the persecutions I endured. Yet the Lord rescued me from all of them. 12 In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, 13 while evildoers and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

I don't see pederasts and perverts, concealed by the RC organization, as being the type of Christ a leader should be! The Roman Catholic Organization most likely the "Whore of Babylon" of which John Spoke (Rev 17:9)...

Woe comes to them...

13 posted on 03/10/2013 5:15:11 AM PDT by WVKayaker ("I've seen how nasty it can be for other conservatives as well. "-Sarah Palin 12/17/12)
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To: FatherofFive
And don't forget the Muzzies pulled the same stunt roughly 900 years later when Calvin and his followers were busy burning heretics and weakening Europe with the 30 Years War.

The Catholics were not blameless in that fiasco, but it wasn't Calvinist armies which stopped the invasion at the gates of Vienna.

FWIW, I'm not a Catholic. But I appreciate what they did to stop the Muslim hordes.

14 posted on 03/10/2013 5:20:35 AM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: neverdem

So...with that logic...one could argue that Luther worked hard to suppress several books of scripture. The Catholic Church merely maintains that Scripture is part of the equation...the Church grew exponentially, and many Catholic beliefs were in place way before the same church decided which Books, letters, et all were free from error. Solo Scriptura is a relatively new concept, and has led, sadly, to a fractured Christian family.


15 posted on 03/10/2013 5:27:06 AM PDT by bike800
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To: bike800
Solo Scriptura is valid if you remove anything that has to do with "denomination" or "church"

If there were no RCC, there would still be the scriptures (you can get just as saved from reading Douay-Reems as you can KJV .... the Latin Vulgate or the Textus Receptus)


If there were no Baptists, Methodists, Episcopalians or Jews, there would still be Jesus, His Words and His works.

If there were no Wiccans or Satanists or muslims, there would still be the created earth with flora and fauna.


And for those that argue they believe the Bible (raising hand in class .. teacher teacher .. I do, I do ..) The "denomination" they (we) prefer is more a preference of delivery and tapestry than a theological position.


What must I do to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.


And if there's anyone here after 8 0'clock and not in church ... stay anonymously behind the keyboard

16 posted on 03/10/2013 5:54:38 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: neverdem
I believe this post, with your snip, leaves the last paragraph dangling. In addition to highlighting Charles Martel, it also highlights the 11th Century Crusades to which the last paragraph is specifically pointing.

And it was explained well by Thomas Madden, Chair of the History Department at Saint Louis University. In "The Real History of the Crusades" he wrote:

... [The Crusades] were not the brainchild of an ambitious pope or rapacious knights but a response to more than four centuries of conquests in which Muslims had already captured two-thirds of the old Christian world. At some point, Christianity as a faith and a culture had to defend itself or be subsumed by Islam. The Crusades were that defense.

And while we are at this discussion, add to the already mentioned historical battles of Vienna [1529 AND 1683], the equally crucial naval engagement of Lepanto in 1571 that turned the Mediterranean Sea from a Muslim lake to a fully disputed arena.

The 1500s, were the second high-water mark of the Islamic conquests, coming after the Mongol conquest of the Middle East that destroyed the Caliphate. With the center of Muslim authority moving then to Istanbul, the Ottoman Empire was intent upon conquering the infidels living next door in Europe. Like many things in history, it was a narrow victory for the West, at least for now.

17 posted on 03/10/2013 6:00:13 AM PDT by SES1066 (Government is NOT the reason for my existence but it is the road to our ruin!)
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To: neverdem

Today’s invasion of Europe and the West is FUNDED by our ‘democracies’ thru welfare.

We of the West are PAYING for our own destruction.

If the Left manages to take our guns—we are DOOMED.


18 posted on 03/10/2013 6:08:24 AM PDT by Flintlock ("The British are coming" to TAKE OUR GUNS!--Paul Revere)
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To: Vigilanteman; All

But the Catholics could have helped the Byzantine Empire.. Our maybe the the Catholics should not have invaded the Byzantine Empire during the Crusades...


19 posted on 03/10/2013 6:12:52 AM PDT by KevinDavis (Third Parties are for losers.)
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To: WVKayaker
The Roman Catholic Organization most likely the "Whore of Babylon" of which John Spoke (Rev 17:9)...

Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

North Korea is threatening nuclear action at the same time the Catholic church is voting for a new pope and Obama is going to be at the Temple Mount. What a confluence of events.

North Korea did have a false-flagged ship in the Mediterranean, the Al Hamed, that delivered nuclear supplies to Syria in 2007. Everyone seems to have lost track of it.

Are the true powers that be, the "ten horns" (ten kings), going to use North Korea to burn that which they hate? I'm not saying it's going to happen, but with the corrupt reelection of Obama and the retirement of Benedict, events are happening quickly now, it would seem.

20 posted on 03/10/2013 6:27:56 AM PDT by Partisan Gunslinger
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To: neverdem

“Europe is currently easy prey, comprising disunited, often belligerent kingdoms and duchies recently decimated by plague. In contrast, the Islamic world is a burgeoning civilization; so much so, in fact, that it views the Europeans as barbarians.”

What a PERFECT description of today’s Europe, and not far off for the US.

1) Easy prey: Yep, they’ve thrown away their religion, so they have no basis to fight those from the south.

2) Disunited: Half of Europe, mainly the South, is living off the work of the other half...not very good for long-term survival.

3) Plague: Liberalism...need I say more.

4) Islam Burgeoning: We may not agree on the definition of burgeoning, but Muslims in Europe are becoming stronger and more unified by the day - Islam is DEFINITELY burgeoning there.

5) Europeans as Barbaric: The Europeans are not helping their image with Islam by supporting gay marriage, abortion, divorce, empowerment of women (to the point of emasculating men), and pornography (although they are starting to turn the corner on porno).

History does repeat...


21 posted on 03/10/2013 6:49:08 AM PDT by BobL (Look up "CSCOPE" if you want to see something really scary)
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