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Steve Deace Et Tu, Rand Paul?
Immigration Reform.com ^ | Steve Deace

Posted on 03/10/2013 6:58:09 AM PDT by SoConPubbie

“Likely fellow 2016 GOP presidential rival Marco Rubio has taken some heat from the conservative grassroots for being the face of “comprehensive immigration reform” (or what many conservatives call amnesty). Now it appears Rand Paul is going to the left of Rubio on this issue if you read his column in The Washington Times,” says Steve Deace.

The entire premise of Rand’s piece is what’s best and fair for the illegal aliens, and never discusses what’s best and fair for the people here legally, paying taxes, and paying the freight for those who aren’t.

Gang of 8 Plan A Security Nightmare

“While the Democratic Party has been most often seen as the party that was eager to enable and encourage millions of aliens, including illegal aliens, to enter the United States, the reality is that both Democrats and Republicans see significant gains to be achieved by opening America’s borders to aliens from around the world, irrespective of how they enter the United States,” says Michael Cutler at GOPUSA.com.

“[I]t is impossible to understand how the Gang of Eight has utterly ignored the fact that there is virtually no integrity to the process by which aliens are granted lawful status and U.S. citizenship under the current circumstances. Aliens who are applying to participate in the “DREAM Act” program cobbled together by the President without the consent of Congress are not being interviewed in person.”

Jan Ting – Say No to Another Amnesty

“The so-called comprehensive immigration reform proposed by a group of senators and President Obama amounts to immediate amnesty for millions of immigration-law violators, and the lifting of limits on future immigration, with some window dressing designed to assuage skeptical voters. We’ve seen this act before,” says law professor Jan C. Ting.

“The 1986 amnesty promised to fix the immigration problem by granting amnesty to three million immigration-law violators, strengthening the border, and penalizing employers for hiring illegal immigrants. It didn’t work then, and it won’t work now.”

Fitton – Don’t Be Fooled by Deceptive Amnesty Claims

“More than a few Republicans in the United States Senate seem to have contracted a severe case of what Harry Truman called “Potomac Fever” (wanting to go along to get along in Washington). Apparently still trembling from the recent election debacle, they have cobbled together a deceptive and destructive “bipartisan” compromise on illegal alien amnesty,” says Tom Fitton, president of Judicial Watch.

“There is no question that the Senate plan is unjust. Illegal aliens have broken our laws, and they shouldn’t be rewarded with amnesty and immediate legalization. Here’s something else: Simply talking about providing a “pathway to citizenship” is only going to worsen the already out-of-control illegal immigration crisis by inducing greater numbers of illegal aliens to flood across the border to take advantage of the program.”


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: immigration; randpaul; randpaulamnesty; randpaulillegals
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1 posted on 03/10/2013 6:58:09 AM PDT by SoConPubbie
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To: SoConPubbie; VinL; ex-snook; sport; INVAR; ejonesie22; PieterCasparzen; Colonel_Flagg; Washi; ...

The Real Rand Paul ping!


2 posted on 03/10/2013 7:01:31 AM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency.)
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To: SoConPubbie

Is there a link to the column the article refers to?


3 posted on 03/10/2013 7:11:30 AM PDT by MestaMachine (Sometimes the smartest man in the room is standing in the midst of imbeciles.)
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To: SoConPubbie

The one important thing missing from the piece is a link to Rand Paul’s Washington Times piece. So, here it is: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/feb/8/sen-rand-paul-trust-verify-immigration-reform/

This is probably Paul’s weakest area. I completely agree with him on the vast majority of issues and vehemently oppose him on a few.

You may not agree with all parts of his plan but at least he has one that secures the border, creates a visa tracking system and places illegals at the back of the line (all good things). No mass deportations is missing as is giving legal work status to illegals and this is where I completely disagree with him.

So, there you have the real and Paul. Have any other GOP presidential hopefuls put forth a plan that goes beyond this? It’s not a rhetorical question, I am genuinely interested in knowing.


4 posted on 03/10/2013 7:15:13 AM PDT by FerociousRabbit
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To: SoConPubbie
“... what’s best and fair for the people here legally, paying taxes, and paying the freight for those who aren't.”

Doesn't matter which modern politician from which party, the above is only something one of them - at an expedient moment - might give lip service to ... nothing more.

They will all gore your ox when convenient for them; fixing or solving your particular plight is not relevant.

Always follow the money and pay attention to what they do when you are not supposed to be looking ...

5 posted on 03/10/2013 7:17:05 AM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now it is your turn ...)
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To: SoConPubbie
The entire premise of Rand’s piece is what’s best and fair for the illegal aliens, and never discusses what’s best and fair for the people here legally, paying taxes, and paying the freight for those who aren’t.

What would have been fair for us was never letting them in in the first place. Now that they are here, and nobody has the stomach for mass detention and deportation at gunpoint, another solution has to be found.

Rand Paul, like his father before him, supports "Open borders - no benefits". The argument really isn't with the illegals themselves, it is with a certain political entity that desperately wants to buy their future votes. That door has to be slammed shut and locked.

6 posted on 03/10/2013 7:18:04 AM PDT by Mr. Jeeves (CTRL-GALT-DELETE)
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To: SoConPubbie

Stop the Border crossing for a year, THEN we will talk amnesty.


7 posted on 03/10/2013 7:18:33 AM PDT by Venturer
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To: SoConPubbie

So I oppose Rand Paul on immigration.

Do you support Ben Carson’s belief that the second amendment should be limited?

You aren’t changing anyone’s mind with unwanted pings.


8 posted on 03/10/2013 7:19:00 AM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: SoConPubbie

The left has successfully linked and conditioned enforcement of law to the adoption of their agenda. Until their agenda is adopted chaos will ensue and any & all steps to promote chaos will be taken.

Witness the federal suits against Arizona. Witness federal refusal by ICE to accept aliens arrested by local law enforcement. Witness federal release of 1000’s of aliens. All to promote chaos.

These people are vicious subversive vile traitors.


9 posted on 03/10/2013 7:24:19 AM PDT by Ray76 (Do you reject Obama? And all his works? And all his empty promises?)
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To: SoConPubbie

I hope Rand is in the Senate a good long time.

He can broaden the tent of our team and he’ll be right about 80% of the time, while his 20% wacko policies can be blunted by his colleagues.

However, as president or a presidential candidate, he’d be a disaster for us.


10 posted on 03/10/2013 7:27:14 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: 9YearLurker

I prefer the whole Ted Cruz political package but I agree that Rand Paul needs to stay in the senate a good long time.


11 posted on 03/10/2013 7:28:37 AM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: 9YearLurker

>> However, as president or a presidential candidate, he’d be a disaster for us.

In comparison to whom?


12 posted on 03/10/2013 7:30:22 AM PDT by Gene Eric (The Palin Doctrine.)
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To: MestaMachine

Here’s the link: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/feb/8/sen-rand-paul-trust-verify-immigration-reform/


13 posted on 03/10/2013 7:31:23 AM PDT by WXRGina (The Founding Fathers would be shooting by now.)
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To: Mr. Jeeves
Rand Paul, like his father before him, supports "Open borders - no benefits".

But we always get the open borders with benefits. That's the libertarian position and anyone flirting with libertarian candidates (no matter what party they're in) should never forget it.

And whenever any state has tried to deny benefits to illegal aliens, courts have struck down such laws. The libertarian position on borders is a fantasy position that won't become a reality in the foreseeable future. A libertarian president would be disastrous on many fronts.

14 posted on 03/10/2013 7:31:38 AM PDT by Will88
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To: WXRGina

Duh. I just saw the link in comment #4. I’m not fully awake yet.


15 posted on 03/10/2013 7:32:08 AM PDT by WXRGina (The Founding Fathers would be shooting by now.)
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To: 9YearLurker

“I hope Rand is in the Senate a good long time.

He can broaden the tent of our team and he’ll be right about 80% of the time, while his 20% wacko policies can be blunted by his colleagues.

However, as president or a presidential candidate, he’d be a disaster for us.”

Who, in your opinion, would surpass your 80% minimum requirement? I’ll take 80% anyday of the week.


16 posted on 03/10/2013 7:33:09 AM PDT by FerociousRabbit
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To: SoConPubbie

Never mind. I found it.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/feb/8/sen-rand-paul-trust-verify-immigration-reform/

I am in favor of immigration reform. I am also wary of reforms granted now for a promise of border security later. In 1986, Ronald Reagan signed a deal that made just such a promise, yet we are still waiting for the border security that never came. Conservatives are also still waiting for the promised three dollars in spending cuts for every dollar in tax hikes. Fool me once … So, it is understandable conservatives should insist that any immigration reform incorporate the principle of trust but verify.

In that vein, I approach these efforts in good faith. I will advance both immigration reform and verifiable border security. Under my plan for comprehensive reform the US would begin with prioritizing Visas for immigrants with advanced degrees, the so-called STEM Visas and an immediate expansion of the work Visa program. These reforms would happen immediately.

But, as a matter of both national security and immigration policy, it is absolutely essential that we both secure our border and modernize our visa system so we know who comes and who goes on travel, student and other temporary visas. And it is vital all other reforms be conditioned on this goal being met.

Border Security, including drones, satellite, and physical barriers, vigilant deportation of criminals and increased patrols would begin immediately and be assessed at the end of one year by an investigator general from the General Accountability Office. Most importantly, and in contrast with any other plan out there, my plan will insist that report be presented to Congress for a vote. If, and only if Congress agreed that border security was progressing, then more reforms would ensue. If we can’t secure our border, and if we cannot prove we can modernize our system of issuing and tracking visas, we cannot take on the task of adding more people to our system.

More at link.


17 posted on 03/10/2013 7:36:15 AM PDT by MestaMachine (Sometimes the smartest man in the room is standing in the midst of imbeciles.)
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To: SoConPubbie

This is actually my biggest beef with Rand Paul.


18 posted on 03/10/2013 7:37:30 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: SoConPubbie

Policies aside...can we as a country please stop with the language used by commies? The “Gang of 8”, Czars, etc. I find this in and of itself, makes me angry to the point where I can’t actually read the proposals, etc. We really are in trouble.


19 posted on 03/10/2013 7:37:42 AM PDT by SueRae (It isn't over. In God We Trust.)
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To: Mr. Jeeves

“Rand Paul, like his father before him, supports ‘Open borders - no benefits’.”

That is an absolutely untrue statement. Shame on you.


20 posted on 03/10/2013 7:39:31 AM PDT by MestaMachine (Sometimes the smartest man in the room is standing in the midst of imbeciles.)
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To: MestaMachine
It's not a bad thing - it's what we should do. I want the smartest and most capable people in the world moving here. Lord knows, our school system isn't producing them any more.
21 posted on 03/10/2013 7:41:13 AM PDT by Mr. Jeeves (CTRL-GALT-DELETE)
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To: FerociousRabbit

It is Rand’s weakest area, but the author alludes to something that a lot of people are guilty of - thinking that all illegals are avoiding taxes - and conversely assuming that all natives are proud tax paying free enterprisers. If we could understand the following, at least some of the heat would be removed from this issue. Most, or at least many, working illegals do have taxes withheld. Many Americans demand to be paid under the table, and there’s a huge economy out there of part time artists and musicians who work for cash, and get government bennies like EBT cards, unemployment, etc - and they are mostly natives.

A little more light and a little less heat would help us understand these arguments better. I don’t particularly care about the “heartless” aspect that Rand and Perry seem hung up on, but the cold hard reality is important to me.


22 posted on 03/10/2013 7:46:52 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright
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To: MestaMachine; Mr. Jeeves

And yet, think about that for a second:
Open borders, no benefits.

That is 50% perfect. If we had a secure border, and NO benefits, this situation would self correct starting immediately, and probably be largely solved within 5 years.


23 posted on 03/10/2013 7:48:21 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright
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To: Mr. Jeeves

Not to mention, any society needs a large population of entry level job workers, able bodies that are attached to perhaps not so capable or smart minds...yet willing to do the hard dirty crap that we all need to get done.

The union, minimum wage, and extended welfare movements are trying to turn grunt 5 dollar an hour jobs into 20 dollar an hour careers....and allow men to be perpetual children by paying them their entire careers for work that should be, and can be, done by entry level folks, and allowing them to retire at 55 having never done a grown up job their entire life. It is this, more than almost anything else, that is killing our economy.


24 posted on 03/10/2013 7:51:27 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright
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To: C. Edmund Wright

The cold, hard reality is that Steve Deace is annoying, self-righteous, completely convinced of his own infallibility, and wasn’t going to support Rand Paul anyway.

That said, it wouldn’t be surprising if Rand Paul spoke out of both sides of his mouth on any given issue. It’s what current politicians do and what he grew up with.


25 posted on 03/10/2013 7:53:20 AM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: C. Edmund Wright

Open borders means serbs, hezbullah, al qaeda, somalis, hamas, falsestinians, venezuelans, guatemalans, morrocans, saudis, yemenis, syrians, pakistanis. egyptians, et al. Why would you think open borders would just mean Hispanics?


26 posted on 03/10/2013 7:59:17 AM PDT by MestaMachine (Sometimes the smartest man in the room is standing in the midst of imbeciles.)
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To: jjotto

“...it wouldn’t be surprising if Rand Paul spoke out of both sides of his mouth on any given issue...”

Except that so far, he hasn’t.


27 posted on 03/10/2013 8:07:53 AM PDT by MestaMachine (Sometimes the smartest man in the room is standing in the midst of imbeciles.)
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To: jjotto

You may be right about Deace, and maybe even Rand as well - but I do have a passion to have the immigration debate handled intellectually honestly, and it is not there at this point. My life experiences over the past 22 years have allowed me some significant insight into the realities of immigration - and I fear that conservatives will needlessly split on this issue, allowing those who have our worst interests in mind to keep their power. I so wish people would realize the following, which I believe at the deepest level to be true:

A: mass deportation is not going to happen. Period. There is a moral case to advocate for it for sure. There is a legal case to advocate for it, for sure. There is an economic case to advocate for it, and one against it - but in reality, none of this matters - because it simply won’t happen - because it simply cannot happen. Cold hard fact.

B: Until the border is secured, no other issues of illegal Hispanic immigration really matter. You cannot do surgery, or attach a band aid, or anything else until the bleeding is stopped. Cold hard fact.

C: There are two distinct illegal populations, and while both are equally illegal, one is far more devastating to our culture and economy. That would be those lured here by give aways. This battle should always be fought with this in mind.

D: Most illegals who work do pay taxes under with holding. And they are not necessarily under paid. Many natives are paid under the table, especially in entry and labor related industries.

E: If we would solve our own union and government unemployment compensation problems, forcing the emergence of an American entry level workforce not afraid of physical labor, this problem would largely go away.

F: A secure border, plus the end of the give aways, would cause supply and demand to solve this problem within a few years. Supply and demand, plus a weak border of 60 years, has caused it. It won’t go away overnight, but if the incents are handled properly, it will self correct. Human nature is far more powerful than even a secure border...and a million pages of rules and regs.


28 posted on 03/10/2013 8:09:16 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright
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To: MestaMachine

So there is no difference between the stance in the editorial and the stance on the website?


29 posted on 03/10/2013 8:10:07 AM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: MestaMachine

You clearly did not read my post, or don’t understand what 50% means. Maybe take another stab at it.....


30 posted on 03/10/2013 8:10:18 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright
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To: C. Edmund Wright

“That is 50% perfect. If we had a secure border...”

You are absolutely tight and I apologize. Mixed this up with the open borders and no benefits post. My bad.


31 posted on 03/10/2013 8:21:55 AM PDT by MestaMachine (Sometimes the smartest man in the room is standing in the midst of imbeciles.)
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To: C. Edmund Wright

The word is right. No sleep yet. Hyper, hyper.


32 posted on 03/10/2013 8:23:33 AM PDT by MestaMachine (Sometimes the smartest man in the room is standing in the midst of imbeciles.)
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To: SoConPubbie; Tennessee Nana; Liz; sickoflibs; HiJinx; Pelham; All

Not what I want...I want the laws enforced, including deportation...Paul is softer, but he’s as good as anyone else out there in office at this time. As he states..., we already have defacto amnesty, because few of them, including criminals are being deported. We’re going to have amnesty shoved down our throats. I think I’d rather have Paul in charge of it than anyone else, because he’d work to cut off the magnets. He is very naive about aliens paying taxes, since half of them are on welfare.

What do you all think?


33 posted on 03/10/2013 8:24:47 AM PDT by AuntB (Illegal immigration is simply more "share the wealth" socialism and a CRIME not a race!)
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To: MestaMachine

No prob, and the salient point is that now we have a porous border PLUS all kinds of benefits...which is 100% IMPERFECT! As I stated in a longer post earlier, a solid border plus an end to bennies would allow this problem to self correct with little or not disruption to other law enforcement activities and no disruption to the economy - and too many “deport at all cost” folks have zero idea how their own lives, and the lives of hundreds of millions of citizens - would be screwed up from both a LEO and economic stand point if this were done.


34 posted on 03/10/2013 8:25:40 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright
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To: Mr. Jeeves

“Rand Paul, like his father before him, supports “Open borders - no benefits”. The argument really isn’t with the illegals themselves, it is with a certain political entity that desperately wants to buy their future votes. That door has to be slammed shut and locked. “

Well stated!


35 posted on 03/10/2013 8:25:42 AM PDT by AuntB (Illegal immigration is simply more "share the wealth" socialism and a CRIME not a race!)
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To: Gene Eric

“In comparison to whom?”

Exactly.


36 posted on 03/10/2013 8:26:54 AM PDT by AuntB (Illegal immigration is simply more "share the wealth" socialism and a CRIME not a race!)
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To: C. Edmund Wright

No doubt in my mind that the benefits are an open, golden gilt edged invitation for illegals to come on in. It sucks.


37 posted on 03/10/2013 8:37:58 AM PDT by MestaMachine (Sometimes the smartest man in the room is standing in the midst of imbeciles.)
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To: MestaMachine
here it is http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/feb/8/sen-rand-paul-trust-verify-immigration-reform/ click
38 posted on 03/10/2013 8:40:03 AM PDT by jpsb
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To: C. Edmund Wright
...a porous border PLUS all kinds of benefits...

The chaos principle at work.

Invariably followed by the strawman "we can't deport them all", therefor we need "reform".

Incentivizing criminal behavior while thwarting law enforcement are tactics. The left is holding the country hostage until their demands are met. They seek a constituency accustomed to strong-man governments and public dole, a constituency refusing to be acculturated with American values, one instead clinging to their culture and language.

39 posted on 03/10/2013 8:40:48 AM PDT by Ray76 (Do you reject Obama? And all his works? And all his empty promises?)
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To: C. Edmund Wright
a solid border plus an end to bennies would allow this problem to self correct

Agreed.

40 posted on 03/10/2013 8:48:31 AM PDT by Ray76 (Do you reject Obama? And all his works? And all his empty promises?)
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To: Ray76

I agree with what you said except the part about “cant deport them all” being a straw argument. It is a legit argument, but the difference is in what you do once you realize this.

The left, as you said, uses it as a cop out to accept all of their utopian dream programs. A conservative would look at this fact and say, okay, let’s do what we can to make this happen over time. Seal the border, remove the hand out incentives, deport those in custody and convicted of crimes, and then watch supply, demand, and human nature self correct a problem that was caused by human nature, supply and demand, and bad policies regarding the border and hand outs,


41 posted on 03/10/2013 9:18:39 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright
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To: MestaMachine
No doubt in my mind that the benefits are an open, golden gilt edged invitation for illegals to come on in. It sucks.

Indeed it is, and points out the two entirely different illegal populations. Those who are incented by gimmes are the opposite of those incented by opportunity. We must realize this, and understand that while both are equally illegal, one group is bringing us down and the other group is actually filling a need our own ritalin fogged lazy welfare receiving labor force refuses to fulfill. Human nature is what it is, and our own government is appealing to the worst of human nature while punishing the best of it. That's why we have an immigration problem.

42 posted on 03/10/2013 9:24:12 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright
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To: Gene Eric

Ha, fair point, considering we’re dealing with the GOP.


43 posted on 03/10/2013 9:50:14 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: FerociousRabbit

Virtually none of our GOP leaders seem immune to failing on the most important issue in that 20%, which is an amnesty giveaway.

But the likes of closing Gitmo and freeing captured terrorists is a pretty dangerous position of Rand’s as well, and I’m not comfortable about his take on Israel either.

I’m not actually too concerned about his libertarian social positions.

Ted Cruz is probably the guy I agree with most on the national stage, though I like Palin despite her McCainesque position on immigration.

Really, there are no perfect candidates.


44 posted on 03/10/2013 9:54:20 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: AuntB

“.I want the laws enforced, including deportation..”

That is the only thing that can save California.


45 posted on 03/10/2013 10:04:03 AM PDT by Pelham (Marco Rubio, for amnesty, Spanish, and the Karl Rove machine.)
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To: AuntB; SoConPubbie; Tennessee Nana; TADSLOS; sickoflibs; HiJinx; Pelham; Grampa Dave; ...
ALL OF THIS IS ANNOYING AND AMPLE REASON FOR DITCHING AMNESTY: (1) Illegals scoff at US laws, (2) ride the gravy train w/ forged/stolen ID's; (3) are educated at our expense; (4) get sucked-up by vote crazed pols exchanging tax-paid freebies for votes.

THE AMNESTY GAME IS FIXED But what is really annoying is that illegals and pols are USING taxpayers in their offensive games to benefit themselves.---to diminsh and demean others --- to advance themselves on the backs of working class Americans.

Ohaha has played this game all his life----he sees illegals as the way to drive his legacy----the rest of us are all pawns in this evil game.

46 posted on 03/10/2013 10:08:31 AM PDT by Liz
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To: FerociousRabbit

If there is no deportation then we have defacto amnesty.

California is filled with foreign nationals squatting here illegally. Why can we not elect politicians willing to enforce the law?

Instead we get clowns like Dubya who fought hard to reward illegals with amnesty.


47 posted on 03/10/2013 10:11:30 AM PDT by Pelham (Marco Rubio, for amnesty, Spanish, and the Karl Rove machine.)
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To: Mr. Jeeves

“Now that they are here, and nobody has the stomach for mass detention and deportation at gunpoint, another solution has to be found. “

Enough with the ridiculous images of “deportation at gunpoint”.

Eisenhower managed a large scale deportation during his Presidency and it included nothing like the scare mongering image you are conjuring up.

If we enacted a policy of asset forfeiture then a very large number of illegals will go home on their own.

What is lacking in the Treason Lobby is the will to enforce the law. The GOP is filled with sob sisters who weep at the thought of making foreign nationals who chose to ignore the law go home.

One thing I will say in favor of Mexicans is at least they remain loyal to their country and their culture, a trait almost never found in America’s political ruling class.


48 posted on 03/10/2013 10:21:24 AM PDT by Pelham (Marco Rubio, for amnesty, Spanish, and the Karl Rove machine.)
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To: Pelham

“Why can we not elect politicians willing to enforce the law?”

Because the media takes them out before they can be heard...ie...Duncan Hunter, Tom Tancredo...


49 posted on 03/10/2013 10:23:43 AM PDT by AuntB (Illegal immigration is simply more "share the wealth" socialism and a CRIME not a race!)
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To: Pelham

““Now that they are here, and nobody has the stomach for mass detention and deportation at gunpoint, another solution has to be found. “

Enough with the ridiculous images of “deportation at gunpoint”.

Eisenhower managed a large scale deportation during his Presidency and it included nothing like the scare mongering image you are conjuring up.

If we enacted a policy of asset forfeiture then a very large number of illegals will go home on their own.

What is lacking in the Treason Lobby is the will to enforce the law. The GOP is filled with sob sisters who weep at the thought of making foreign nationals who chose to ignore the law go home.

One thing I will say in favor of Mexicans is at least they remain loyal to their country and their culture, a trait almost never found in America’s political ruling class.”

YOU got it!


50 posted on 03/10/2013 10:24:39 AM PDT by AuntB (Illegal immigration is simply more "share the wealth" socialism and a CRIME not a race!)
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