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Everything you need to know about Pope Francisís macroeconomic views
Washington Post ^ | 03/14/2013 | by Dylan Matthews

Posted on 03/14/2013 7:29:57 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

We have a new pope! Pope Francis I, formerly Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio of Buenos Aires, is the first Latin American pope, and indeed the first pope not from Europe or Northern Africa.

While considered a long shot in the betting markets — correcting for bookie profit, Paddy Power gave him a 2 percent chance, and Betfair a 0.7 percent chance, last I checked — he was widely considered the runner-up in the 2005 race for pope, a fact confirmed by leaked diaries after the fact.

He also has one of the more interesting political records of any of the papabili. When Argentine president Cristina Fernández Kirchner fought successfully to legalize same-sex marriage, he vehemently opposed the move, stating, “This is no mere legislative bill. It is a move by the father of lies to confuse and deceive the children of God.”

According to National Catholic Reporter’s John Allen, the new pope steered clear of liberation theology — a branch of Catholic social thought which emphasizes the importance of reforming capitalist structures that disadvantage the poor — even as many of his peers in Latin America were embracing it. (Allen also notes that in 2005, Francis was accused by a human rights lawyer of helping the ruling junta in Argentina of kidnapping two liberal Jesuit priests who were subsequently “disappeared” as part of the government’s “Dirty War” against leftists in 1976. Francis denied the charges.)

But Francis also seems to be an opponent of austerity, most notably during his time as spiritual leader of Argentina when the country defaulted on its debt in 2002. A paper by Thomas Trebat, “Argentina, the Church, and Debt,” details the church’s role in the crisis’s resolution. Argentine bishops, including Francis, had long criticized the laissez-faire policies of Carlos Menem,

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: catholic; liberationtheology; macroeconomy; popefrancis

1 posted on 03/14/2013 7:29:57 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind
PAPA FRANCISCO PRIMERO


2 posted on 03/14/2013 7:30:56 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

Sounds about as good as we could have hoped for. I was waiting to hear that he was a Chavista.


3 posted on 03/14/2013 7:32:41 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: SeekAndFind

In as much as Marx meant “the free market” when he used the word “capitalist” there are no free market structures that disadvantage the poor. Actually, the free market places the poor at an advantage over any other market system.

The poor are the least likely to be able to influence or control government. Every move away from the free market is acutally anti-poor and pro-poverty. Innovation is the way to knock market leaders off their perch.

The economic forms that Catholic missionaries encountered in the 3rd world are all oligarchies and crony capitalism in which legalized theft is the norm. The poor, being without political, legal or market power are disadvantaged in highly regulated systems. They cannot “work the system”.


4 posted on 03/14/2013 7:42:43 AM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD
The economic forms that Catholic missionaries encountered in the 3rd world are all oligarchies and crony capitalism in which legalized theft is the norm. The poor, being without political, legal or market power are disadvantaged in highly regulated systems. They cannot “work the system”.


Actually, now the "legalized theft" is in favor of the "poor" and illegal immigrants as now my hard-earned money is stolen from me and given to someone who didn't earn it and shouldn't even be here. The same money I would have used to put my kids through college.
5 posted on 03/14/2013 8:03:20 AM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Can he be Pope Francis I? Isn’t he Pope Francis?


6 posted on 03/14/2013 8:09:44 AM PDT by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: Travis McGee

In all reality, almost any Cardinal from the third/second world was going to have a left of center bent (see Turkson). Actually Benedict did too. JPII was probably the most free market leaning having lived through communism.


7 posted on 03/14/2013 8:09:46 AM PDT by SMCC1
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To: Travis McGee
Sounds about as good as we could have hoped for. I was waiting to hear that he was a Chavista.

It doesn't sound that good to me. This Pope seems to be known for his "social justice" positions. Argentina has a history of defaulting on its debt. Their problem is TOO MUCH government spending to create "social justice" From the article:

How involved Pope Francis will be in the austerity debates in the United States, Europe, and elsewhere remains to be seen. But if the record of him and other Argentine leaders is any indication, he won’t look too kindly to cuts in social spending.

So the Pope is basically a big government liberal. His positions, and largely that of the Catholic Church in general, are old school populist left on economics combined with social conservatism on things like abortion. This does not sound very good. A pope like this, depending upon how outspoken he is, could set back free market movements for generations.

8 posted on 03/14/2013 8:09:50 AM PDT by Longbow1969
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To: goodwithagun

RE: Can he be Pope Francis I? Isn’t he Pope Francis?

Of course, he is Pope Francis, and that’s what English speakers call him.


9 posted on 03/14/2013 8:33:00 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: Longbow1969; Travis McGee

I have to admit I cringe a little when I heard that Pope Francis was concerned with “Social Justice” because it usually means “Government Program” and “Wealth Redistribution”

It really depends on the meaning one puts into that term.

From what little I have read so far, Francis tends to see it in terms of Social Christian outreach and involvement, which is absolutely in line with Biblical principles of taking personal responsibility to reach out and help those who are poor, sick and disabled.

We’ll have to see....


10 posted on 03/14/2013 8:37:59 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: Travis McGee
I was waiting to hear that he was a Chavista.

JP II put the kaibosh on that not long after he was elected. Those types are now fading away thankfully.


11 posted on 03/14/2013 8:49:08 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: SeekAndFind

From what I am reading he opposed cutting social welfare programs in Argentina in an effort to deal with their debt/default problems.

This Pope sounds like a social conservative and an economic leftist (though not a communist). This is actually very common in South America. It used to common in the US. Old time Democrats (particularly in the South) tended to have these views.

I’m sure the Pope is a good man with the best of intentions, but if he is out there pushing “social justice” you can bet it will mean big government welfare programs. Catholics just do not seem to understand that free markets create wealth and lift people out of poverty, not the nanny state.


12 posted on 03/14/2013 8:50:11 AM PDT by Longbow1969
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To: SeekAndFind

What I mean is, until there is a second Francis he should not be referred to as the first.


13 posted on 03/14/2013 8:57:31 AM PDT by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: SeekAndFind
The unjust distribution of goods persists, creating a situation of social sin that cries out to Heaven and limits the possibilities of a fuller life for so many of our brothers.”

I was afraid of that. He believes that goods are "distributed". They are earned. Big difference.

14 posted on 03/14/2013 9:29:06 AM PDT by BfloGuy (The final outcome of the credit expansion is general impoverishment. -Ludwig von Mises)
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To: SeekAndFind
liberation theology — a branch of Catholic social thought which emphasizes the importance of reforming capitalist structures that disadvantage the poor

It's euphemistic phrasings like this that make me barf when I read papers like the WaPo.

15 posted on 03/14/2013 9:39:18 AM PDT by Yardstick
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To: Longbow1969

I think you’ve got the new Pope pegged.


16 posted on 03/14/2013 9:41:42 AM PDT by Yardstick
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To: Longbow1969
"Catholics just do not seem to understand that..."

And certain non-Catholics do not seem to understand Catholic Social Justice, as opposed to general cultural ideas among conservatives of what it is, yet babble on embarrassingly like they are experts on the matter. Get a clue. Read documents of The Church to learn about The Church, not some Ayn Rand forum.

17 posted on 03/14/2013 9:47:01 AM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not Nurture¬ô)
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To: Longbow1969

RE: but if he is out there pushing “social justice” you can bet it will mean big government welfare programs.

As long as he does not speak ex-cathedra on economic policy, there will be room for disagreements with Francis within the Roman Catholic church.


18 posted on 03/14/2013 10:00:52 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: steve86; Salvation; madd dawg

“And certain non-Catholics do not seem to understand Catholic Social Justice, as opposed to general cultural ideas among conservatives of what it is, yet babble on embarrassingly like they are experts on the matter. Get a clue. Read documents of The Church to learn about The Church, not some Ayn Rand forum.”

Would you be willing to provide a link for interested non-Catholics to learn about this aspect of Roman Catholic teaching? You assert that the words “social justice” in the Catholic Church means something different than what is understood in the common vernacular.

Perhaps as you understand this, rather than condemn the justifiable concerns of the non-Roman Catholics, you would be willing to educate and reach out rather than to condemn them for concerns....which presumably you share vis-a-vis the issue many here understand about “social justice.”

Thank you in advance for your gracious response.


19 posted on 03/14/2013 10:25:43 AM PDT by TEXOKIE (We must surrender only to our Holy God and never to the evil that has befallen us.)
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To: SeekAndFind

*

Bookmarked for later.

.


20 posted on 03/14/2013 10:27:05 AM PDT by LucyT (In the 20th century 260 million people were killed by their own governments.)
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To: steve86
And certain non-Catholics do not seem to understand Catholic Social Justice, as opposed to general cultural ideas among conservatives of what it is, yet babble on embarrassingly like they are experts on the matter. Get a clue. Read documents of The Church to learn about The Church, not some Ayn Rand forum.

Stop getting all defensive about it. I understand that there is supposed to be a difference, in theory, between Catholic Social Justice and big government liberalism, In practice though, it all too often seems to be one and the same. This very article talks about how the new Pope got involved in the economic arguments back in Argentina and opposed austerity and blamed laissez-faire policies for poverty. That is not a good sign at all.

The West needs to stop spending more than it has. The problem we have is too much of the liberal version of "social justice". I hope the Pope doesn't believe in the nanny state social welfare apparatus, but from what I read he opposed cutting it when that is precisely what Argentina had needed to do. Catholics tend, even sometimes the best of the clergy, to conflate government social welfare spending with "social justice". Other than abortion, gay marriage and contraception, the Catholic church is really very leftist on many of the big issues facing us - including economics, immigration, the death penalty, gun control, etc, etc.

21 posted on 03/14/2013 10:54:47 AM PDT by Longbow1969
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To: TEXOKIE

Hello, thank you for your suggestion. I can not fulfill your request right at the moment, but would like to do so perhaps later today. The knowledge I carry in my head is not sufficient to give an adequate response, but I have been exposed to enough material while reviewing the kids’ Religious Education curriculum to pick up the disconnects. Again, thank you and I will bookmark this thread to return.


22 posted on 03/14/2013 11:19:01 AM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not Nurture¬ô)
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To: Longbow1969

I apologize for my rude comment earlier. In way of lame self-defense, I had a truly horrible night with crampy stuff. Please refer to immediately preceding comment.


23 posted on 03/14/2013 11:21:46 AM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not Nurture¬ô)
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To: TEXOKIE; Longbow1969; steve86; rwilson99
Subsidiarity is the real, Catholic view of how poverty is to be treated; what we mean by social justice. I suspect this is how Pope Francis approaches the problem, not from a "big government" leftist approach.

rwilson99 explained the concept well here. Part of subsidiarity is, when local solutions prove impossible or unweildy, it is the role of government to provide as much assistance to get local solutions working again. This is not the same as saying its the government's responsibility to "feed the poor". It's not. It never is, in subsidiarity. However for government to help individuals (or small groups) to help others, it still costs money.

24 posted on 03/14/2013 11:47:02 AM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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To: TEXOKIE
Here is a quick read on the seven principles of Catholic Social Teaching. Please be sure to read the section on subsidiarity which is perhaps its least understood (or perhaps most ignored) aspect.

http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=7538#PartV

25 posted on 03/14/2013 11:49:07 AM PDT by Ol' Sox (Those who advocate should be first in line to experience the consequences of their convictions.)
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To: FourtySeven

Thanks. Were the idea of subsidiarity to be applied at all levels of government, commerce, charity, church, many problems would disappear, or at least be dealt with in a way that is acceptable to fiscal conservatives and ordinary working Americans.


26 posted on 03/14/2013 11:52:12 AM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not Nurture¬ô)
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To: steve86
I apologize for my rude comment earlier.

No problem.

27 posted on 03/14/2013 11:53:39 AM PDT by Longbow1969
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To: Travis McGee
Sounds about as good as we could have hoped for. I was waiting to hear that he was a Chavista.

Nah. Not the Archbiship of Buenos Aires. He is, however, a Porteño.

28 posted on 03/14/2013 12:36:55 PM PDT by archy
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To: steve86; Ol' Sox; FourtySeven; Longbow1969; rwilson99

Sorry for my late answer.

Thanks for your reply. I’m not a Catholic and I was intrigued by the idea that “social justice” could actually mean two different things. Especially in the context of the news of a number of years ago I seem to recall with there being a bit of the Liberation Theology form of social justice invading the Latin American Catholic church.

I fully understand about time commitments. It appears that several other thread participants have answered my question for how to delve further into the issue.

Thanks to all of you for continuing my education!


29 posted on 03/17/2013 9:13:46 PM PDT by TEXOKIE (We must surrender only to our Holy God and never to the evil that has befallen us.)
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