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California businesses fuming over retroactive $120M tax grab
Fox News ^ | 3/19/13 | Lee Ross

Posted on 03/20/2013 6:10:14 AM PDT by listenhillary

California's top-end taxpayers -- already steamed over a recent hike in the nation's highest state income tax -- are now fuming over a new $120 million retroactive tax grab on small business owners.

In December, the state's tax authority determined that a tax break claimed over the past few years by 2,500 entrepreneurs and stockholders of California-based small businesses is no longer valid and sent out notices of payment.

"How would you feel if you made a decision, which was made four years ago, (and) you absolutely knew was legally correct and four years later a governing body came in and said, 'no, it's not correct, now you owe us a bunch more money. And we're going to charge you interest on money you didn't even know you owed'," Brian Overstreet told Fox News from his office north of San Francisco.

Last year, Overstreet and his fellow investors sold Sagient Research Systems and immediately reported the sale to the California Franchise Tax Board, the state's version of the IRS. "It was good for the shareholders, it was good for the employees and good for those of us who founded it," Overstreet said about the sale of the data mining company. "We paid the tax based on the law at the time."

But the FTB changed its interpretation of the law after a state appeals court ruled unconstitutional a qualifying provision of the break requiring companies to maintain 80 percent of their workforce in California. Instead of asking the legislature for guidance on what to do, the FTB suspended the break in its entirety and ordered anyone who's claimed it in the last five years to pay up.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 03/20/2013 6:10:14 AM PDT by listenhillary
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To: listenhillary
Ex Post Facto? Oh, that's right.....the Constitution no longer applies in Kalifornia (or anywhere else in Amerika today)

Never mind......

2 posted on 03/20/2013 6:12:11 AM PDT by traditional1 (Amerika.....Providing public housing for the Mulatto Messiah)
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To: listenhillary

“”How would you feel if you made a decision, which was made four years ago, (and) you absolutely knew was legally correct and four years later a governing body came in and said, ‘no, it’s not correct, now you owe us a bunch more money.”

Sounds vaguely familiar to the payment schemes that exist for healthcare providers for the last 25 years.


3 posted on 03/20/2013 6:14:36 AM PDT by Artie (We are surrounded by MORONS)
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To: Artie

Except the payments have already been made for the health care schemes.

Imagine individuals having to cough up 5 years of SS payments in a lump sum because the government said you didn’t pay enough.


4 posted on 03/20/2013 6:17:08 AM PDT by listenhillary (Courts, law enforcement, roads and national defense should be the extent of government)
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To: All

Paraphrasing St Augustine——”Without a system of justice, what is the state but a marauding band of thieves.”


5 posted on 03/20/2013 6:17:24 AM PDT by Liz
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To: listenhillary
The Pipple's Republik of Kalifornica MUST send these lefty-lib nutcases and fruitcakes away from the high offices of gub'mint...

Vote them out...
Throw them out...
Wash them out...

Just get them OUT of the seat of power.

Elect some people with at least a lick of common sense.

6 posted on 03/20/2013 6:21:40 AM PDT by Wings-n-Wind (The main things are the plain things!)
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To: listenhillary

California has lived off Hollywood taxes for decades. Miami is clamoring for that business and Hollywood is taking the bait with year round sunshine and less tax penalties ... California will eventually have to wake up when nothing is left there.


7 posted on 03/20/2013 6:24:45 AM PDT by autumnraine (America how long will you be so deaf and dumb to thoe tumbril wheels carrying you to the guillotine?)
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To: traditional1

The ex post facto stricture in the US constitution applies to federal laws. Does the California constitution even have one?


8 posted on 03/20/2013 6:25:43 AM PDT by SeeSharp
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To: listenhillary

Business lacking the sense to exit CA a decade ago get what the voting parasites put into law. Either they get out, or they shut up.


9 posted on 03/20/2013 6:26:04 AM PDT by Neoliberalnot (Marxism works well only with the uneducated and the unarmed.)
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To: Grampa Dave; AuntB; Tennessee Nana; thouworm; TADSLOS
Sap-happy Cali pols bought re/elections by putting every bottom-feeder who could vote on the dole...now they are scrounging to come up with money to pay for it all.

REFERENCE---LATINO JUST HERE FOR A BETTER LIFE SCAM-A-RAMA Seems this tax-sucking bottom-feeder worked for Cali's San Bernardino County Dept of Corrections. He told J/J he worked 9 mos and got 3 mos time off (cough) "to be with his children"---one of whom was (ahem) college age.

J/J asked him how he supported himself those 3 mos----he replied he collected UI.

THE SCAM Seems the Dept of Corrections aided and abetted govt fraud---they calculately "laid him off" and rehired him 3 mos later. The trough-swiller said he had been doing that for nine years...falsifying govt documents to get UI tax dollars (AKA government fraud) aided and abetted by the Cali DOC.

PS---when he was "laid off to be with his children," he was actually travelling to get laid by his girlfriend---she was suing him for a $4000 loan---which was why they were in J/J's courtroom.

10 posted on 03/20/2013 6:28:08 AM PDT by Liz
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To: listenhillary

Dang.

Too bad that attempted money grab in Cyprus didn’t work. Libs/Lefties/Progressive would have loved that — going after a fair share from everyone’s bank account.


11 posted on 03/20/2013 6:28:15 AM PDT by TomGuy
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To: listenhillary

“Imagine individuals having to cough up 5 years of SS payments in a lump sum because the government said you didn’t pay enough.”

I think that day is just around the corner. Anyone with anything considered an income is not safe.


12 posted on 03/20/2013 6:35:28 AM PDT by Artie (We are surrounded by MORONS)
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To: listenhillary
Connecticut implemented a retroactive tax when Malloy became governor. People were angry, so angry that they went and elected dems all over again in the last election. Anyhoo, the higher taxes didn't fix anything and the state is wallowing in debt as it spends more and redefines spending to get around the so called "cap".

Funny thing, revenues are down as companies and people move out of state. Wonder if there's any correlation.

13 posted on 03/20/2013 6:36:54 AM PDT by Sirius Lee (All that is required for evil to advance is for government to do "something")
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To: Sirius Lee

I think California is gaining a firm lead in the race to the cliff.

Bankrupt San Bernardino approves over $1 million in pay hikes
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/19/usa-sanbernardino-pay-idUSL1N0CBBGW20130319

California officials OK $8.6 billion in debt for high-speed rail
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/19/california-rail-bonds-idUSL1N0CB08Y20130319

California now leads nation in unemployment at 9.8 percent
http://washingtonexaminer.com/california-now-leads-nation-in-unemployment-at-9.8-percent/article/2524777


14 posted on 03/20/2013 6:45:13 AM PDT by listenhillary (Courts, law enforcement, roads and national defense should be the extent of government)
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To: listenhillary

Last thing I remember, I was
Running for the door
I had to find the passage back
To the place I was before
“Relax, “ said the night man,
“We are programmed to receive.
You can check-out any time you like,
But you can never leave! “

Hotel California - The Eagles


15 posted on 03/20/2013 6:45:36 AM PDT by Hotlanta Mike ("Governing a great natiorn is like cooking a small fish - too much handling will spoil it." Lao Tzu)
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To: listenhillary

Let us know when they are fuming enough to move their business out of CA and quit electing democrat parasites.


16 posted on 03/20/2013 6:46:46 AM PDT by soycd
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To: Neoliberalnot

Business lacking the sense to exit CA a decade ago get what the voting parasites put into law. Either they get out, or they shut up.


And are these business confident that this tax measure is a one-off case? Or is there more to follow?


17 posted on 03/20/2013 6:47:23 AM PDT by Hotlanta Mike ("Governing a great natiorn is like cooking a small fish - too much handling will spoil it." Lao Tzu)
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To: listenhillary

This has happened to me in Michigan too at least twice in the last 8 years when Jennie Granholm was in office. “They” created a new tax and made it retroactive and took it out of every business owner’s payroll without any notification. Like 800 bucks one time and 500 bucks another time. Talk about being ticked!


18 posted on 03/20/2013 6:50:14 AM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: traditional1
You have TWO streams of law involved here. First, statutes and their interpretation, and then executive branch administrative regulations, and their interpretation.

Notice that a court acted and the executive branch responded in one of the ways that it can.

Absent clarification by the court the executive moved out smartly as if the law had never existed.

This happens every day, and if you don't like it you go back to court for a clarification.

Now, apply this to the administrative (that is, executive branch) decisions regarding birthright citizenship. So far we don't have any court decisions on the matter ~ just a couple regarding peripheral issues, but nothing straight to the gut on ILLEGAL ENTRANTS. The one case frequently cited involved LEGAL IMMIGRANTS!

Not too far in the past if a foreign visitor had a baby in the USA she was REQUIRED to add the baby to her visa! BINGO ~ the State Department rules clearly did not treat the babies of foreigners just visiting in the same manner as the babies of immigrants with a legal right to be here. In fact, worse than that, the state department was directing that American born children be added to visas just as if they were foreigners!!!

Somewhere the administrative rules got revised ~ actually not too long ago when they eliminated FAMILY VISAS.

All those illegal alien babies born here could end up without citizenship if this issue were ever actually brought to court.

If California's administrators were correct ~ that with no supporting statute the previous administrative exceptions were invalid and can be dealt with retroactively, then the illegal alien babies are not American citizens. All the principles are the same.

Note, I was actually involved in some of the same sort of questions at USPS when it came to application of postage and fees to actions taken in the past. Basically, our argument ran, if the clerk overlooked a rule, or an obscure combination of rules, that we, the world's foremost experts in postal regulations could easily see, our findings prevailed ALL THE WAY BACK and the customer owed the money.

In a case at law before a court things might have been different, but for the executive there's little other choice but to take the money!~

19 posted on 03/20/2013 6:50:28 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Wings-n-Wind
Where are you going to find "peoplw with a lick of sense" in Kalifornicatia these days?

They all moved out!

20 posted on 03/20/2013 6:50:33 AM PDT by Redleg Duke ("Madison, Wisconsin is 30 square miles surrounded by reality.", L. S. Dryfus)
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To: Liz

Paraphrasing St Augustine——”Without a system of justice, what is the state but a marauding band of thieves.”


That Reminds me of something I read in my misspent youth. It was something along the lines of:

Government is primarily a band of Vandals and Vikings searching for something to loot and the taxes we pay are the Danegeld to keep them away from our every day lives.

Of course I know now that the Danegeld wasn’t enough in the end and that they resumed raiding England and Europe eventually. What put a stop to that was armed resistance everywhere they showed up. Eventually there weren’t enough survivors to go Viking any more.

Kind makes you think doesn’t it? (With a beatific grin)


21 posted on 03/20/2013 6:51:38 AM PDT by The Working Man
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To: listenhillary

Hey, as long as Sacramento can keep the welfare monkeys happy, that’s all they care about. It’s all about buying enough votes to stay in office. What do they care about the future of their once great state?


22 posted on 03/20/2013 6:52:10 AM PDT by LouAvul
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To: SeeSharp

Ex post facto applies ONLY to statutes unless you go to court. The situation here is the administrators collected the wrong taxes ~ now they have to collect the right taxes.


23 posted on 03/20/2013 6:53:48 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Neoliberalnot
“And remember, where you have a concentration of power in a few hands, all too frequently men with the mentality of gangsters get control. History has proven that.” Lord Acton

The same repetition of Liberal thugs in office decade after decade and their cronies follow up when THEY leave... it is a perpetual merry go round of corrupt and incompetent Liberal thieves... how could ANYTHING improve?

24 posted on 03/20/2013 6:56:06 AM PDT by SMARTY ("The man who has no inner-life is a slave to his surroundings. "Henri Frederic Amiel)
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To: soycd

Why do you care.


25 posted on 03/20/2013 6:56:45 AM PDT by RedHeeler
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To: Wings-n-Wind

NOT! The state is dominated by the takers! It will never happen. They need to move out to a red state.


26 posted on 03/20/2013 7:01:37 AM PDT by SgtHooper (The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list.)
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To: listenhillary

http://video.adultswim.com/robot-chicken/this-deals-getting-worse-all-the-time.html


27 posted on 03/20/2013 7:03:06 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy (Best WoT news at rantburg.com)
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To: listenhillary

Amazing. Stogner vs Calif., was overturned by the US Supreme court several years ago, due to ex-post facto. That ruling allowed 880 convicted serving and sentenced child molesters to go free, without parole, probation or registration. Yet, this state will go after undue monies, by legal trade, by even worse subversion.


28 posted on 03/20/2013 7:08:23 AM PDT by RedHeeler
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To: SeaDragon

CA is trying to destroy small businesses.


29 posted on 03/20/2013 7:10:18 AM PDT by RikaStrom ("To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize." ~Voltaire)
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To: listenhillary
California is the leading communists Democrat capitol of the Country. This State is toast and will collapse.
30 posted on 03/20/2013 7:34:59 AM PDT by Logical me
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To: RikaStrom

And succeeding.


31 posted on 03/20/2013 8:04:00 AM PDT by SeaDragon ("Life is tough ..... It's even tougher if you're stupid." - John Wayne)
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To: listenhillary

Roll over and take it time has passed. Now it is time for the tar and feathers.


32 posted on 03/20/2013 8:06:50 AM PDT by AD from SpringBay (We deserve the government we allow.)
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To: listenhillary

The things that happen in democrat controlled states are never for the people.


33 posted on 03/20/2013 8:20:39 AM PDT by Vaduz
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To: RedHeeler

>Why do you care.

Because I want democrats to fail and fail big. No matter where they are doing their democrat dirty work. The more failures that are seen as the democrats fault, the fewer people will vote for their evil, thieving ways.


34 posted on 03/20/2013 8:21:52 AM PDT by soycd
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To: Liz

There are so many ways our states and feds can $crew us.

In California, the left wingers in control of the capitol are trying to enforce back taxes on tech start up investors.

Not only are they after the so called back taxes, they want penalties for late payments for past refunds:

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/01/24/2232237/californias-surreal-retroactive-tax-on-tech-startup-investors

“Engineers and hackers don’t think much about tax policy, but there’s a bizarre development in California that they should know about, since it could reduce the pool of angel-investment money available for tech startups. Under a tax break available since the 1990s, startup founders and other investors in California were allowed to exclude or defer their gains when they sold stock in California-based small businesses. Last year, a California appeals court ruled that the tax break was unconstitutional, since it discriminated against investors in out-of-state companies. Now the Franchise Tax Board, California’s version of the IRS, has issued a notice saying how it intends to implement the ruling — and it’s a doozie. Not only is the tax break gone, but anyone who claimed an exclusion or deferral on the sale of small-business stock since 2008 is about to get a big retroactive tax bill. Investors, entrepreneurs, and even the plaintiffs in the original lawsuit are up in arms about the FTB’s notice, saying that it goes beyond the court’s intent and that it will drive investors out of the state. This Xconomy article takes an in-depth look at the history of the court case, the FTB’s ruling, and the reaction in the technology and investing communities.”


35 posted on 03/20/2013 9:04:15 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (What do Sequester, Mayan Apocolypse, Y2K & Gorebull Warming have in common? They were/are 100% BS!)
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To: listenhillary; Liz; stephenjohnbanker; SierraWasp; Ernest_at_the_Beach; dennisw; tubebender; ...

California now leads nation in unemployment at 9.8 percent

http://washingtonexaminer.com/california-now-leads-nation-in-unemployment-at-9.8-percent/article/2524777

How many of the job holders in Californicator land have two basic part time jobs or one full time job with a part time job to make ends meet.

Earlier, this year, a 20 something grandson of a close friend ended up in a hospital basically due to over working. He and his young uncle both had full time jobs and worked on the weekends or their time off with a full time job. These are the young men who work and have no problem finding jobs.

Recently at a social event, I got to talk to both of them, and according to them they are probably very common workers with a good work history today with two jobs. How many people are like them in California, and are they/each counted as two job holders.

A young relative, who used to work in the premium restaurants said Obozo health care is forcing many good waiters, cooks, chefs and others to have two jobs as employers are refusing to pay anyone for more than 30 hours per week to avoid the Obozo health care costs. He said some restaurant owners are working with other owners to basically share good workers to avoid the over 30 hour/week trap.


36 posted on 03/20/2013 9:21:12 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (What do Sequester, Mayan Apocolypse, Y2K & Gorebull Warming have in common? They were/are 100% BS!)
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To: listenhillary

u-haul


37 posted on 03/20/2013 9:45:09 AM PDT by BO Stinkss ( I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees)
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To: listenhillary

but but .. it’s for the illegal chilrun yaknow.. when Bill Maher gets an upset tummy,, yaknow it’s close to meltdown time..


38 posted on 03/20/2013 10:33:58 AM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi)
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To: listenhillary

Didn’t Clinton do something really similar in....1994, or something?


39 posted on 03/20/2013 11:54:21 AM PDT by Noamie
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To: Noamie

“Congress has been adopting retroactive tax increases for a very long time, essentially since the 1930s. The 1913 Revenue Act was the first one with an effective date before the date of the actual enactment. Generally, the increased tax rate is applied retroactively to the year in which it is enacted. But in 1918 and 1926, each of the Revenue Acts was applied to the entire calendar year that had preceded enactment. As early as 1935, one commentator pronounced restrictions on retroactive taxation to be “dead.”

From
http://www.heritage.org/research/lecture/retroactive-tax-increases-and-the-constitution


40 posted on 03/20/2013 12:02:49 PM PDT by listenhillary (Courts, law enforcement, roads and national defense should be the extent of government)
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To: Grampa Dave

” A young relative, who used to work in the premium restaurants said Obozo health care is forcing many good waiters, cooks, chefs and others to have two jobs as employers are refusing to pay anyone for more than 30 hours per week to avoid the Obozo health care costs. “

This is happening coast to coast.


41 posted on 03/20/2013 12:10:34 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker
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To: RedHeeler

Different part of the Bill of Rights ~ criminal law


42 posted on 03/20/2013 2:32:06 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: listenhillary

retroactive tax need not be paid.

California needs a 9.6 earth quake at LA or San Francisco


43 posted on 03/20/2013 2:39:15 PM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 .....The fairest Deduction to be reduced is the Standard Deduction)
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To: bert

Just an idea:

Seeing as how the Obama administration and the Democrat Legislature has passed the ACA which will impose fines if one DOES NOT purchase health care insurance, it’s time these businesses charge the STate of California a surcharge 3-5 times the cost of the tax for the state’s failing to purchase their products or services. Plus interest, late fees, and legal costs.

Democrats set the precedent. Let them live by it.


44 posted on 03/20/2013 2:56:30 PM PDT by Big Giant Head
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To: The Working Man

Sounds good to me (polishing my halo).


45 posted on 03/21/2013 5:11:55 AM PDT by Liz
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To: soycd

Those folks, could care less, about the next right thing. Ever.


46 posted on 03/21/2013 8:28:02 PM PDT by RedHeeler
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To: muawiyah

Huh? Good grief, take a breath.


47 posted on 03/21/2013 8:37:19 PM PDT by RedHeeler
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