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Life At Conception Act Introduced By Senator Rand Paul
Freedom Outpost ^ | Mar. 20, 2013 | Tim Brown

Posted on 03/20/2013 8:32:36 AM PDT by EXCH54FE

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To: Mrs. Don-o

So then, a baby conceived and born out of invitro is not “fearfully and wonderfully” made?

101 posted on 03/24/2013 12:26:47 PM PDT by stinkerpot65 (Global warming is a Marxist lie.)
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To: EXCH54FE; 185JHP; 230FMJ; AKA Elena; APatientMan; Albion Wilde; Aleighanne; Alexander Rubin; ...
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But the problem is Rand P. subsequently said there are "thousands" of exceptions that would allow abortions. Sounds good but what does he REALLY plan to do?

Anyone wanting on/off either ping list, FREEPMAIL me.

102 posted on 03/24/2013 2:28:59 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: stinkerpot65; little jeremiah
"Fearfully and onderfully made"?

A laboratory-constructed IVF baby not made in the way that mirrors God's creative plan: in a love embrace. This is the only way fitting to the child's identity as an image and likeness of God.

Rather, it's made the way a bred-to-order experimental lab rat is made.

(This is not, of course, the only way-of-begetting that would violate the child's dignity. Being conceived by rape, prostitution, surrogacy contract, drunken fling, patriarchal concubinage, etc. would likewise be unworthy of the child's dignity. IVF is just as subpersonal, in yet another, more radical way.)

This has nothing to do with any supposed inferiority on the part of the CHILD. The CHILD is not inferior. It has to do with the manner in which the child is brought forth: as beloved, and the fruit of love? Or as product and property?

(I'm not just making this up. The Maryville TN frozen embryo case years ago determined that the embryonic children "used" in an IVF case are property, not progeny. The commercial conflict in this case -- the ownership of disputed embryos --- was covered by property law, not family law.)

For animals, veterinary methods of breeding are not a moral problem. I suppose that with artificially inseminated sows, or sheep implanted with clones, you could say their offspring were wonderfully "made," in the sense of manufactured: made in the manner of products, not in the manner of persons. With livestock, that is not a problem. But with persons, it is.

Ar you fully on board with the Judeo-Christian truth that human beings bear the image and likeness of God? And thus God, designer of our nature, may rightly demand certain conditions which are fitting for persons --- conditions provided by divine wisdom: namely that an act that could be life-giving should be an act of consecrated lovemaking? Do you not see the connection?

Don't you see that begetting results in bringing forth an equal, but manufacturing results in a product --- a thing seen as inferior to its maker or owner?

103 posted on 03/24/2013 4:27:55 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Make love: accept no substitutes.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

“manufacturing results in a product -— a thing seen as inferior to its maker or owner?”

No, I don’t think an invitro baby is loved or considered inferior by parents on anyone else.

Nor do I agree that the scriptures provided show invitro to be a sin. David provides a description of his own conception, not a command.

Any human being is God’s creation, beginning to end, and would not exist unless God created it.

However, I do think the status of an unused fertilized egg is an interesting point.

So I will respectfully disagree and move on. Thanks for your thoughts.

104 posted on 03/24/2013 6:30:59 PM PDT by stinkerpot65 (Global warming is a Marxist lie.)
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To: stinkerpot65
Thank you for your good discussion. If I may, I just wanted to clarify one point:

The IVF baby is not un-loved by his parents. He is created by God and an image of God, like all of us. I hope I made that clear.

My point is that he was put together in the manner of a product is made, not like a person is made. And the law sees him as a product before implantation --- and in fact, right up to birth, since he can be culled and deiscarded right up to birth (e.g. a baby in a surrogacy contract, who can be ORDERED to be aborted if the buyers/adopters decide he's not up to specifications.) A person who respected babies would respect their right to be begotten in the marital embrace. It safeguards their human dignity. That's what children WANT to know: that they came from the desire of God and thre love-act of their mom and dad, and not from a hireling, a donor/vendor or a hatchery.

Begotten in any other way, other than holy spousal union, he is objectively an unconsenting experimental subject. In law, an object. Even though he may be a "loved" object. I appreciate your discussion, and please pray for me today as I go out to a vigil at an abotion site. We all need prayers.

105 posted on 03/25/2013 4:46:45 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("There never was anything so perilous or so exciting as orthodoxy." G.K. Chesterton)
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