Ann's Dream....
Posted on 03/21/2013 2:39:24 PM PDT by JohnPDuncan
Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) appeared on America's News room this afternoon and declared: “I’ve got a news flash for those who want to call people names on amnesty – what we have now is de facto amnesty,” Paul shot back. “We have 11 million people here that have been here, some of them for a decade or more. No one is telling them to go home. No one is sending them home.”
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“We have 11 million people here that have been here, some of them for a decade or more. No one is telling them to go home. No one is sending them home.”
That is correct and it is not all the Democrat Party’s fault, either. Republicans have been exploiting the illegal alien labor pool for a long time.
You mean GOPe types in their farms and factories.
Coulter said she is a single issue voter now and if you support amnesty, you’re not in here wheelhouse for 2016 anymore. “I’m now a single-issue voter against amnesty, so Chris Christie’s off my list,” she said.
(CPAC)
Yes, Senator Paul. We want them sent home but are well aware that our elected leaders have failed in that regard. btw...raising the white flag is not an option, unless you are a pro-ILLEGAL alien liberal or a spineless coward conservative. Which best describes you, Senator Paul?
That we have ‘de facto amnesty’ doesn’t make it acceptable.
“No one is telling them to go home. No one is sending them home.”
That’s the problem. They need get out and go back home, and do things properly. But that assumes illegal aliens want to be Americans. Most do not. Most of the illegals coming in are racist and hate this country, but want our money. This idealist notion of the noble, impoverish illegal alien has got to stop.
It’s a heck of a lot more than 11 million. But what exactly, is the interest in making them citizens? They seem to be willing to be exploited. They broke laws to get here. Their pretense is a continuing violation of the law. If we aren’t going to send them home, why reward their lawbreaking with citizenship? We have no shortage of lawbreaking citizens already. Why not just keep exploiting them?
Pretense = presence
Actually, I was thinking of the southwestern states, particularly Texas, Arizona, and California.
If any Republican runs nationally on a promise to deport the illegals and their families they will lose.
This is a real tough one for conservatives. I think Rand is trying to chart a middle course.
Remember though, most congressman and senators in safe deats dont care about the GOP’s national chances and will oppose anything being done and promoting this demented idea that we can win again by threatening to round up millions of people and deport them.
Both parties are being PUNISHED by Obama but they would have been punished by Romney as well.. as they were by Bush Jr..
The American people generally have become CORRUPT..
A corrupt givernment is quite normal and natural..
What is strange is that so few are available that will ADMIT THIS..
Optimistic delusion must a version of Stockholm Syndrome..
Massive voter fraud was “OUTTED” on Nov. 6th 2012...
Both parties are whistling past the graveyard hoping nobody will NOTICE...
The question is not IF....... but:...............
“How long has THIS been going on?”....
American voters have been cheated on(openly with no shame).. divorce is an option..
The proper response...... could get somebody “SHOT”...
Lady Liberty seems to have become a “SLUT”...
The way to fix this is give them all a green card to work for a $1000 fee, and say anyone here illegally forever gives up the right to be a citizen and vote in return for permanent resident status. It solves all the big issues, makes them legal, removes the Democrat Voting block and removes their ability to be a citizen. Your never going to get enough agreement to deport them in mass. I would prefer a fence, land mines and deport all illegal folks but I am not in charge.
The “11 million” figure has been used since 2000. Try 20-25 million?
What is the basis of this assertion?
Its time to stop calling it “amnesty” and call it what it really is. Its an attempt to overturn longstanding federal law by extraconstitutional means.
Amnesty is given on a case by case basis for things like humanitarian reasons.
Ann's Dream....
==
Paul, Rubio, et al, are using the same rhetoric that has been used for years: ‘Secure the border’.
They fail to mention that that (securing the border) could be done with existing laws. We don't need another comprehensive immigration bill, that results in giving amnesty to millions more illegals, with new ‘secure the border’ laws that will be ignored.
==
The whole issue is a canard and shell game politicians have been using since the last general immigration was passed.
They won’t lose if the elections are not massive election fraud as usual.
IOW if ONLY legal voters are allowed to vote, deporting illegals is a winning issue. Guaranteed.
Depends on how it’s sold. If they do it like always, it’s a 50 state wipeout. If they tell the actual truth it’s a landslide win.
Total the cost of illegals in cash. Always keep that hammered. But Push the crime stats and MOST importantly, articulate how every single penny going to illegals deprives people in old folks homes funding for care they may have otherwise had with that additional funding.
Show the price of perscriptions etc and how all the money going to hospitals to pay for illegal healthcare drives up the cost and CLOSES the facilities
Push the pix of the environmental destruction in AZ/Cali/Texas/New Mexico.
SHOW PICTURES of the murdered people/DWI fatalities.
In short, yse the Dem playbook to the letter. Except in this case women and children ARE hurt most and it’s all TRUE.
Tug the heartstrings. The Dem and GOP AND ALL OTHER amnesty by any name supporters cannot fight that and win.
The Border Patrol has stated it is closer to 30 million....at least.
This idealist notion of the noble, impoverish illegal alien has got to stop.
The “Noble Savage” Myth is one that has taken down civilisations before and will continue to do so...
I really have mixed feelings on this.
On the one hand, these people broke the law and a lot of them are serious criminals and even more are irresponsible drivers, besides the fact that they are ready-made Democrat voters and know how to game the welfare system.
On the other hand, a lot of them will outwork a lazy-assed doped/drunk American every day of the week. Every illegal I ever met had a work ethic that many employers can only dream about.
Maybe amnesty for the ones who work full time and offer them a reward to inform on those who don’t so they can be deported.
I will say it’s over 30 million. When Reagan gave an amnesty for “1 million “ it turned out to be more than 3 million. Also, there are multiple illegal aliens using and sharing identities. We need to start notching their ears.
The problem is making them citizens which allows them to vote - and 80% of them will vote Democrat. Any kind of "pathway to citizenship" is nothing more than a pathway to 10-20 million new Democrat voters looking for freebies from the government. Coulter has come around on this because she realizes no version of a "pathway to citizenship" is going to make Hispanics like us any better. They want to collect benefits from the government and will continue voting for the party that offer's them the most stuff.
There is no practical way to round up 11 million people and send the packing. Be real.
“If any Republican runs nationally on a promise to deport the illegals and their families they will lose.”
Oh...my...we couldn’t have that...a republican ‘losing’...
Poll: Majority of Americans Want Illegal Immigrants Deported
National Review Online - Feb 21, 2013
Despite the national focus on immigration reform, a Reuters/Ipsos survey released this week indicates that Americans are not warming up to the ...
Poll: Most Americans ready to kick illegal immigrants to the curb msnNOW
New Poll Shows Majority of Americans Want to Deport Illegal ... KFDX
Poll: More Than Half Of US Citizens Want Illegal Immigrants Deported The Inquisitr
KTAR.com - DigitalJournal.com
AND
“Do you support or oppose passing a comprehensive immigration overhaul at the federal level that would provide a pathway to citizenship for most illegal immigrants currently living in the United States?” Among self-identified Republicans, 64 percent expressed opposition, with 44 percent strongly opposed; 30 percent supported comprehensive reform, but only 6 percent strongly supported it. “
Now, you can dig around and find a poll that appears to refute this....until you look how the questions were asked.
Americans Prefer Illegal Immigrants Head Home | Center for ...
www.cis.org/americans-prefer-illegal-immigrants-head-home-results-of-national-survey - Cached
A new poll using neutral language — and avoiding the false choice of ... finds that
most Americans want illegal immigrants to return to their home counties, rather ...
In one day? No. But Vicente Fox did it over a number of years. Why? Because it benefited his country. Should our leaders stop pandering to the ILLEGAL population and take real steps to limit what they can do and/or get while here they would leave.
Attrition through enforcement.
Deport on contact with police
No enticements: no tuition, no driver license, etc
Paul is right, of course. But WHY do we have de facto amnesty?
Could it be because the federal government -- which is charged with securing the border, defense of the nation's sovereignty and maintaining the value of American citizenship -- has utterly failed to do its Constitutionally-assigned job?
What would Sen. Paul's response to that question be?
“This idealist notion of the noble, impoverish illegal alien has got to stop.
The “Noble Savage” Myth is one that has taken down civilisations before and will continue to do so...”
____________________________
AMEN! Once upon a time, in this country, a group of Cherokees saw the writing on the wall, decided to become ‘civilized’. They became Christian, learned to excel in the English Language, became businessmen and gained wealth, became some of the best lawyers in the nation and lived under a constitutional government. The other part of the tribe, let by the tyrant John Ross chose to stay ignorant, needy and assassinated or attempted to assassinate the others for a 40 year period for DARING to change.
John Ross reminds me a lot of Obama, a socialist and master of class warfare. Sadly, the tribe, and most Indian tribes have chosen to retain their poverty and ignorance.
I hate to burst your bubble but they own businesses, and not just landscapping businesses.
The notion that all those here illegally are only maids and farm workers is wildly uninformed and hurts the cause to correct this problem.
Step one is to close the border. Until that happens, the problem can't begin to be solved.
Step two is to get rid of the insane notion that it is possbile to round up 11 million people and deport them. Take that one through the planning action steps and if you still think it is doable then you just aint smart. Be sure you throw in the cost of riot supression and calculate how much busess at 50 per bus you will need to depart 11 million people.
You might not like what has happened. You might have done it differently and prevented the problem from happening in the first place. The reality of the situation should be cause enough for you to realize that what you want to do aint gonna happen.
The sooner you get over that, the sooner you can start working on a solution. Check your emotions at the door on this one.
No news flash about de facto amnesty. We’ve had that since the GHWB administration, and all through Clinton’s eight years and W’s eight years and Obama’s four. The numbers just became more noticeable as the years went by since 1986 when we had the de jure amnesty.
Rand is sounding more and more ridiculous on this issue.
“You might not like what has happened. You might have done it differently and prevented the problem from happening in the first place. The reality of the situation should be cause enough for you to realize that what you want to do aint gonna happen.
The sooner you get over that, the sooner you can start working on a solution. Check your emotions at the door on this one. “
That is exactly the same argument we’ve been fighting on FR for a dozen years! IF some here had listened to us then instead of fighting us and supporting the BUSH/Norquist/McCain amnesties, we wouldn’t have this mess today!
Some of us tried! What did you do before this mess got to this stage?
Then we have another 19 million that have been here even longer, some of them since 1986.
Make that 20 or 30 million illegals, and add a couple of decades onto the time a lot of them have been here.
I dare you to call his office and ask.
His answer would probably be: we’re not going to round them up, so lets secure the border, let them have a work visa and if they want to apply to become citizens get in line.
I would agree with that plan; never, ever under any circumstances should they be able to be citizens after coming here illegally.
Also with a green card, it is a way to keep some track of them and what they are up to. If they violate the laws then they need to lose their green card and be deported. Any who don’t apply for green cards or cannot qualify for a green card need to be deported. If done right it is a workable plan. The worst would not qualify for green cards and could be deported. Problem is I don’t see the government implementing it right, and I don’t see dims going along with it since they won’t get to add them as new voters.
I don’t like it, I personally want to send them all back but that is really not going to happen. Many would be deported under your green card plan though because most that cross through the desert do so because they have a criminal history and can’t come in legally even to visit. Others that should be deported instead of giving them a green card are those that came in legally and overstayed or otherwise did not keep their status legal.
For the most part, I like Rand Paul. However, on this issue, he is wrong. We may have a millions of illegals in the US now, but we will have many millions more if Congress provides a path for citizenship to those who are willing to violate our laws. No country can absorb such a large group of people all at once without some acculteration. The US, in its long history, has done more to welcome immigration than any other country in history. For the most part, we have benefited from this immigration. However, we have always exerted some control over the pace of this immigration and, as a society, we have always expected newcomers to embrace and conform to our core American beliefs in representative government, individual liberty, and American customs.
The proponents of this amnesty either don’t agree with our long-standing approach to immigration or don’t understand the destructive forces they will unleash if such a large body of people are introduced into our country all at once. Such a large group of unacculturated people will be unassimilable both culturally and economically and will further erode the frayed threads holding together the fabric of our society.
So, let’s get started. Or, if you are Rand Paul, let’s just make them legal. Because that is the libertarian response to people doing illegal things, apparently.
Personally I do not like fenced and/or walled boarders. I like free cultural exchange. There are memories of the Berlin wall. However, I also very mush hate the fact that there are ?? millions of persons that come across our National borders to milk the labor opportunities, money, and other government resources to which they do not contribute funds or allegiance. In this respect the Mexico’s government has been playing USA citizens a song and dance by an irresponsible social system that includes corruption, drugs, and no self imposed citizen opportunities. If our Government had a serious concern about the effects of immigration on legal persons in the the USA these USA officials would be looking at the Mexican government for action and remedy. We don’t need friends who who are acting to push their obligations on citizens of the USA and legal residents. As a side issue I do not like the fact that some people would have so called ‘anchor babies’ be eligible for POTUSA whether from Mexico, Egypt, or wherever.
Do some research on the popular vote and you will see what has happened to this country in the last 20 years. The number of people voting since 1988 has doubled! This has all been through immigration not by Americans having babies. All these new voters are a result of Motor Voter and massive fraud with early voting and illegals voting. We are so screwed.
Even without amnesty I doubt we have the numbers to ever win a national election. Registering all the illegals now will just give them absolute power by winning the House. The USSC is gone now with Roberts going to dark side. It is over and it happened right before our eyes. The Dems did it to us with immigration.
We could have turned this around when GWB was POTUS and we had congress instead of playing footsie with the Dems and signing such crap as Voting Rights Act. Shame on all of them. They have destroyed my country. Hope Teddy Kennedy is sitting his fat but on red hot coals.
Why is everyone in DC nucking futs?
Rand is correct on this.
I agree with you more than I could ever tell you. But the one factor you have to throw in is that they didn't listen to us. So now what do we do. The problem before was easy. Don't let it become a problem in the first place. The problen now is what do we do with this giant mess somebody else created.
As we look for solutions I just don't see that trying to deport 11 million people is going to work. I'm open to someone showing me how it can be done. My focus would be to take steps to first make sure the problem does not get any bigger and then to deal with the giant mess.
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