Skip to comments.ABC News: Senator Ted Cruz And 7 Other Politicians At The Heart Of Birther Conspiracies
Posted on 03/21/2013 4:37:24 PM PDT by Cold Case Posse Supporter
Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) is at the center of the latest "birther" conspiracy. But he's not the first to face this line of questioning.
A handful of politicians have been targeted in the last few years with the same accusation -- that they are not fit for the Presidency because they do not meet the constitutionally-mandated eligibility requirement of being a "natural-born" U.S. citizen.
Confusion around who qualifies as a "natural born" citizen has contributed to the debate, as the Constitution does not explicitly define the phrase. Some incorrectly presume it only includes people born within the boundaries of the United States. In fact, by U.S. citizenship law you can be American "at birth" or a "natural born citizen" under a few circumstances that don't involve being born on the mainland. For example, if you're born on a U.S. military base abroad, like in Panama, that counts. You are still categorized as being American "at birth" if one or both of your parents are U.S. citizens and fit a list of long and complicated requirements that arebroken down here.
Check out our list of politicians who have battled "birther" claims.
(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...
There IS a conspiracy among major media to take down threats to the status quo. Here’s a perfect example.
I think they are using it as an article to “Paint” Cruz as an “Insane Birther”...
As birther is now a prejoritive...
Constitution does not explicitly define the phrase. The Constitution doesn’t define any words! Guess ABC didnt’ know that!
I posted comments to the article at the ABC News site on what a true Article 2 Section 1 natural born Citizen is and a little factual history on past presidents who had a foreign born parent just in case a liberal hypothetically say’s “It doesn’t matter, other presidents had foreign born parents”. Let’s see how long my comments stay up before they are scrubbed.
I’m reposting this from the comments section of the ABC story posted above. It’s well-worth the read...
The meaning of the term-of-art ‘natural born citizen’ has been addressed, and confirmed by the US Supreme Court. The idea that all persons who are a citizen at birth, are ‘natural born citizens’ can not possibly be accepted for the simple reason that NO part of the Constitution can be interpreted in such a way as to make any part of the Constitution irrelevant. What that means is that the Constitution MUST be interpreted in such a way that every word in relevant. The idea that ‘citizen at birth’ equates to ‘natural born citizen’ ignores the word ‘natural’. If the intention was otherwise, they would have simply said a ‘born citizen’, or a ‘citizen at birth’ or ‘born a citizen’. So it is clear they intended something else. So - what does the word ‘natural’ mean in the context of ‘natural born citizen’? There are two types of law. There is ‘positive law’ - this is man-made law, such as the Constitution, laws from Congress, state law, local ordinances, and so on. And then there is ‘natural law’ - this is the law of nature, or the divine. An example would be when the founders wrote the Declaration of Independence, and stated - “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”. That is a form of natural law. So, the term ‘natural born citizen’ means EXACTLY what it says, a citizen at birth according to natural law.OK - what is a citizen by natural law? Remember, a natural law is one that is unwritten. So a citizen by natural law, would be a citizen that would require no man made ‘positive’ law to be a citizen. So, when is someone a citizen without need of any positive law? When they can be nothing else. Does that sound familiar? Ever heard someone answer a question with the word ‘naturally’, because the answer could be nothing else? “Does Monday come after Sunday? Naturally!”. Who can be nothing other than a citizen at birth, and therefore requires no positive law? There are 4 basic variables governing citizenship. 1) born in or out of a country. 2) Both parents are citizens. 3) One parent is a citizen. 4) Neither parent is a citizen. The first (where born) is combined with the other 3 to determine whether or not a child is a citizen at birth. There are laws written to govern every situation - except one. The only situation not covered by positive law is when a child is born in a country, and both parents are citizens of that country. Why? Because no law is required, the child is a citizen ‘naturally’. Both side want to ignore this FACT. Maybe where a person is born shouldn’t really matter. I’ve seen many immigrants who are much more patriotic than natural born American’s. But there is a process to go thru if that is the case, and that process is the Amendment process. But that probably wouldn’t go through. So what do they do? They simply ignore that part of the Constitution. The real danger is what part do the decide to ignore next?
Now I like CRUZ!! But he is no “natural born”.
Good post at #7
ABC is trying to diffuse what they know is coming.
The article is pure tripe. Totally unrelated clips about non issue Presidential candidates.
The only ones that are/were clearly not eligible lied about it. That is President Authur and Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. (or whatever his real name is).
The rest listed are simply noise to confuse.
Smells like something big on the horizon.
Revocation by a Naturalization Court
A naturalization court has authority to revoke its citizenship judgment. See 8 U.S.C. § 1451. However, Congress has strictly limited the grounds which support revocation. The only grounds are proof of concealment of a material fact, willful misrepresentation, or procurement in violation of law. 8 U.S.C. § 1451(a).
A natural born citizen does not have a certificate of citizenship or certificate of naturalization to be revoked. A natural born citizen uses a vital statistic record of live birth to prove birth within the territorial limits of the U.S., but does not have a certificate issued by the Federal government that can be revoked. Consequently, Jindal and Rubio are natural born citizens.
A U.S. citizen can move out of the country and voluntarily revoke their citizenship. And voluntarily revoking your citizenship can be acts construed by the SoS as deemed to have voluntarily revoking their citizenship, i.e. an oath of allegiance to a foreign country with renouncement of U.S. citizenship to foreign authorities. See Vance v. Terrazas http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=case&court=us&vol=444&invol=252
Jindal, Rubio ... natural born citizens without a certificate of citizenship or naturalization that can be revoked.
Cruz, McCain ... citizens at birth and not natural born citizens (despite Resolution 511) because they each applied for citizenship and were issued certificates by the Federal government which could be revoked.
Terrazas of Vance v. Terrazas ... natural born citizen born in Maryland with one U.S. Citizen parent and one foreign national parent had his citizenship revoked after he signed and pledged an oath of renunciation of his U.S. Citizenship to Mexican authorities in Mexico.
That’s funny. I thought Obastard was at the heart of the birther conspiracies.
There are six things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to him:
a lying tongue,
hands that shed innocent blood,
a heart that devises wicked schemes,
feet that are quick to rush into evil,
a false witness who pours out lies
and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.
I despise the one stream media.
In that position, he possibly would be in office through many presidents.
Wouldn't it be great if we had a the leader of the Senate who didn't let anything go to the POTUS to be signed into law that wasn't Constitutional?
When was the last time we had anything close to such a person in the Senate leadership???
"They" are scared of him and others like him, and for good reason, and want him outta there!
No wonder they keep pushing him for a position that many realize he isn't eligible for. The effort hurts him and weakens support for him.
“Cruz, McCain ... citizens at birth and not natural born citizens (despite Resolution 511) because they each applied for citizenship and were issued certificates by the Federal government which could be revoked.”
Where are these ‘issued certificates by the Federal government’ located at Sven?
Also how can you call Jindal a natural born Citizen? His parent’s weren’t naturalized until AFTER he was born. Rubio’s father wasn’t naturalized until AFTER Marco was born.
Brilliant post. I see your point. Cruz cannot be president ( born in Canada) . Paul can and Rino Rubio can. But Cruz can do major good as leader on the Senate.YES!!
Obama has a certificate of Naturalization? No one has ever mentioned that before?
I warned people here that the liberal loons who avoided Obama’s lack of eligibility would have no compunction, the hypocrites, to go after our guys.
All of a “sudden” ABC news is a natural born citizen birther?!
Anyone who supports The Constitution when the libs are attempting to bend or break it’s tenets, is labeled a radical or whack job.
How would McCain’s certificate ever be revoked absent his renunciation of U.S. citizenship? He would be ‘natural born’ as both parents were U.S. citizens serving U.S. interests overseas.
McCain’s citizenship wasn’t OBTAINED through application, it was CONFIRMED through application, as are all children of U.S. military or foreign service who are born overseas.
The comparison to Myers is apples/oranges.
Interestingly Barry Soetoro (Soebakah), Bounell IS the very first “Birther”!!!
As usual they are completely ignoring the fact that the US citizenship laws for Hawaii in 1961 were DIFFERENT than for all the rest of the US at that time. It was overseen by the Supreme Court at that time, and the citizenship acts for the rest of the US - DID NOT APPLY during transition to statehood... I guess that’s too difficult for ABC to grasp though.
Also agree that there is much more that is wrong in their “report”.
McCain's father was on an American base in Panama. The wife was there, too. They were still American citizens when they left the base and went to a hospital for the birth of McCain. He was a natural born citizen as citizenship passed from his parents to him. He was a natural born citizen.
Cruz's mother was an American citizen. She had her son in Canada but he was an American citizen the minute he was born as his mother's citizenship passed from her to him. He was a natural born citizen.
The founders did not want say, an Englishman, a citizen of England, to be able to come here and become a “naturalized citizen” and become president. That is why they wrote that law. They didn't want a Frenchman who was a citizen of France to come here and become a “naturalized” citizen and become president.
McCain and Cruz have always been American citizens - they did not have to become a “naturalized” citizen.
The problem with Obama, is, we don't even know if the mother was a US citizen or if she had renounced that citizenship when she married whomever Muslim she married and went to live in the country where the man lived. If she stayed an American citizen, and Obama was born in Africa, they had a choice of making him a citizen of Africa or America or giving him dual citizenship.
If he had been born here and she was an American mother and and the father African, they had a choice for him to be an American Citizen or African citizen or dual citizenship. I think he was born in Africa and was of African citizenship because they wanted him to be and they weren't keen on American anyway. I think that is how he got grants to come here to school. He was an African foreign student.
My grandson was born in England of an English mother and a US citizen father. He is a natural born American by his father and a natural born Englishman by his mother. He had an American passport by the time he was two or three days old. He also has an English passport. He is a natural born American citizen, not a "naturalized" American citizen.
Piers Morgan is here on a visa I guess. He is no kind of American citizen no matter how much he gestures and postures and raves and rants. England doesn't want him back and I can see why. What a disgusting man.
ABC should be investigating rather than criticizing those who are, shame on them
That is why the court said it didn’t need to rule on MINOR V. HAPPERSETT, Both parents were Americans thus she was a Natural born citizen.... I find it strange how they expect for the constution to define words, It’s not a dictionary!
If he had been issued a Certificate of Naturalization, it would be available to see under a Freedom of Information Act request.
Apparently, the “birther” accusation is replacing the McCarthy accusation of being a communist!
We are becoming so stupid and petty as a society, these are the equivalent of “your mother wears army boots” when I was a kid!
“McCains citizenship wasnt OBTAINED through application, it was CONFIRMED through application, as are all children of U.S. military or foreign service who are born overseas.”
McCain and Cruz would not be U.S. Citizens unless they applied to the U.S. Federal Government to OBTAIN it. Believe it or not, there are children of U.S. Citizens born in foreign countries who are not U.S. Citizens because their parents never applied for their Certificate of U.S. Citizenship.
The natural born citizen is the only citizenship status where the U.S. citizen did not apply to the U.S. Federal government for recognition of their citizenship status. Without a certificate issued by the Federal government, there is nothing to revoke. Consequently, a natural born cannot lose their citizenship for any reason; unless, they move out of the country and voluntarily renounce their U.S. citizenship.
Jindal and Rubio are citizens of the U.S and have never applied to the U.S. government for recognition of their citizenship status. Their citizenship status is considered to have naturally occured because of their place of birth.
McCain and Cruz did not have their U.S. citizenship recognized until they applied for it with proof of eligibility and they were issued a Certificate of Citizenship. Their certificates were eligible for revocation after a Court or administrative hearing. Consequently, they are not natural born citizens despite Resolution 511.
Geez, my eyes!
Can you repost that with some paragraph breaks?
Many argue that even if Obastard has dual citizenship, THAT disqualifies him from being president.
He would have to give up the African one. I don't think he would do that as that is what he considers his home, along with the place in Indonesia where he lived with husband number two and went to school and learned the Islamic religion.
When an American renounces US Citizenship, they are issued a Certificate of Loss of Nationality at a US Consulate office in a foreign country. No one has uncovered that for Stanley Ann Dunham. Once a person renounces, they no longer have a US Passport.
If Obama was born outside of the US, his mother was too young to pass on US natural born citizenship to him. His mother was 18 years and nine months old and she would have needed to be 19 years old (5 years past her 14th birthday), hence the interest in finding proof of a foreign birth for Obama that has thus far not turned up.
Obama was born with dual US and United Kingdom and Colonies citizenship through his father. He lost that United Kingdom and Colonies citizenship when he was two years old and Kenya became an independent nation. Obama then inherited Kenyan citizenship which he maintained until he was 21 years old. However Kenya does not recognize dual citizenship so Obama would have had to elect to become a citizen of Kenya. Kenya’s law gives a person two years past their twenty first birthday to choose Kenyan citizenship, so Obama lost Kenyan citizenship on his 23rd birthday, August 4, 1984.
“Also how can you call Jindal a natural born Citizen?”
Jindal (Rubio) is a natural born citizen because his U.S. citizenship was and still is recognized because of his place of birth. He has never had to apply for U.S. citizenship. He has never had to state an oath of allegience to be recognized as a U.S. citizen.
Application, proof and oath for Certificate of Citizens with U.S. Attorney and SoS
Cancellation of Certificate of Citizenship or Naturalization
A. Administrative Cancellation of Certificates See Part L, Revocation of Naturalization, Chapter 3, Effects of Revocation of Naturalization. A Certificate of Naturalization issued to a person who lawfully filed an Application for Naturalization and proceeded through the naturalization process to the Oath of Allegiance cannot be canceled under INA 342. Officers should consult with local USCIS counsel in such cases.
USCIS is authorized to cancel any Certificate of Citizenship or Certificate of Naturalization in cases where USCIS considers that the certificate was:
Illegally or fraudulently obtained; or
Created through illegality or by fraud. See INA 342. Under the same conditions, USCIS may also cancel any copy of a declaration of intention, or other certificate, document or record issued by USCIS or legacy INS.
USCIS issues the person a written notice of the intention to cancel the certificate.
Cruz’s parents and McCain’s parents had to apply for and show proof of eligibility to have their foreign born children recognized as U.S. citizens. Furthermore, their parents had to “take and subscribe” an oath of allegience to the U.S. on behalf of their children. Their certificates were subject to revocation after adjudication in a Federal court.
Jindal’s and Rubio’s citizenship status is not subject to revocation; unless, they move out of the country and voluntarily renounce. Consequently, Jindal and Rubio are natural born citizens.
Amazing isn't it satan69? Free Republic has an unhealthy collection of agitprop specialists busy keeping our low-information audience confused as well.
Obama isn't natural born because he told us so. “I am a native-born citizen of the US”. The 14th Amendment made native born residents into citizens, with the exception of American Indians, “untaxed”. Obama told us he was born a British Subject. He told us he was naturalized by the 14th Amendment. Citizens are either naturalized or natural.
McCain had problems because he was not born on sovereign US soil. Don Nickles, former Oaklahoma Senator, tried to help has friend McCain with a Constitutional amendment in 2004, to make the overseas-born children of citizens natural born citizens. It failed to pass, just as did the other seven attempts at amending Article II Section 1 filed between 2002 and 2008. The two filed by Conyers and one by Robert Menendez would have made Obama eligible. None passed.
Obama and his campaign chair, Clair McCaskill, sponsored S. 2678, February 2008, the Children of Military Families Natural Born Citizen Act, to imply that McCain was eligible, since McCain provided cover of Obama. It failed to pass. So McCaskill and Leahy, realizing they hadn't a prayer of passing anything other than a feelgood resolution, sponsored Senate Resolution 511, entirely focused on how no one doubted McCain's allegiance, and since he was born to citizen parents, in spite of any irregularities with where he was born, our framers would have wanted McCain to be considered a natural born citizen.My assumption and my understanding is that if you are born of American parents, you are naturally a natural-born American citizen, Chertoff replied. That is mine, too, said Leahy. Of course Senator Obama wasn't born to citizen parents, but we are not only a low-information society, but are properly assumed to have short memories, and Obama had not yet secured the party's nomination.
As to who is a natural born citizen it is remarkable to see discussions where legal sources are avoided, so here is the only, and never amended, interpretation for the term natural born citizen, never doubted common-law before 1875 and positive law after Chief Justice Waite's brilliant decision in Minor v. Happersett:
“The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens,as distinguished from aliens or foreigners.”
Before the 14th Amendment the only citizen defined by the Constitution was a natural born citizen. Least someone suggest that the 14th Amendment also changed the definition for who were natural born citizens, here is the crystalline statement by its author, Congressman-judge John Bingham to the House of Representatives as he explains his naturalization amendment to the House of Representatives in 1866:
I find no fault with the introductory clause [S 61 Bill], which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen .
Not natural born citizens: Obama, Chester Arthur, McCain, Ted Cruz, Rubio, Jindal, Wong Kim Ark, Arnold Scharzenegger, Madeline Albright, Henry Kissinger, Zbigniev Brezinski... Natural born citizens: Rand Paul, Sarah Palin, Suzanne Martinez, Ben Carson, ....
Thanks Cold Case Posse Supporter.
Meme-building, Daily Kos was also having one of its racist fairy conniptions about Sen Cruz.
Partisan Media Shills ping.
just get it over with and make 0bama OFFICIALLY SUBMIT the birth certificate he’s flaunted to the world
what? what would be the problem with that?
all you anti-birthers should be ok with that... right?
Who wrote the misleading headline?
a natural born citizen is someone that is a citizen naturally... AS THERE WERE NO ALTERNATIVES
it’s an extremely simple definition.
However, my read of of the moss on the pine trees says that Kid Kenya's relationship with Reggie Love is the real dynamite in this log jam. Some enterprising reporters ought to trace Reggie's movements ... they have, I am reliably led to believe ... intersect frequently with you-know-whose. This is real.
The guy LIVED in the WH for months. When early in the '12 campaign he surfaced in a homo porn video, they disappeared him overnight outa town with a bundle of cash and no kiss good-bye.
They’re at it again.
You say “Cruzs parents and McCains parents had to apply for and show proof of eligibility to have their foreign born children recognized as U.S. citizens. Furthermore, their parents had to take and subscribe an oath of allegience to the U.S. on behalf of their children.”
And when did this take place Sven?
During the first Obama presidential campaign, in August, 2008, Bill Clinton was asked if he thought Obama was qualified to be president. Clinton knew what was meant by the question but instead of commenting about Obama's character, experience, knowledge of foreign and domestic policy, and leadership abilities, etc., he offered this rather cryptic reply:
"The constitution sets qualification for the president. And then the people decide who they think would be the better president."
"The constitution sets qualification for the president."? That's his answer? Bill Clinton made this reference to the Constitution shortly after America's latest fad, the "community organizer" from Chicago, popped up out of nowhere and stole his wife's destiny by winning, in rather sleazy fashion (including the shameless playing of "the race card"), the Democrat party's nomination for President.
It has been my opinion since that time that the Clintons know something, and that it was they who quite deliberately fanned the flames of controversy over Obama's birth. Remember, it was a prominent campaign-fund bundler and Hillary Clinton supporter, Philadelphia lawyer Philip Berg, who launched *the first* Obama eligibility lawsuit. That lawsuit was filed in August of 2008, shortly after Bill Clinton made his curious reference to the Constitution when asked if he thought Obama was qualified to be President. Coincidental timing? Sure it was.
No, the Democrat "mainstream" newsrooms never vetted Obama. Why would they? Everything anybody wanted to know about Obama they could read in his two autobiographies. (shrug) What's to vet?
So you would trust the accuracy and legitimacy of a document released by Barack Obama or released under his authority then?
I would prefer that the original birth certificate be released under a court order from a judge, which is allowable under Hawaii law.
Sven........you said this the other day:
Arpaio and Zullo are protecting Napolitano from criminal prosecution.
I asked “What is your evidence for that?”
I asked you this the other day Sven and have yet to get a detailed explanation why you think that. Stop avoiding it and please answer the question.
“Consequently, Jindal and Rubio are natural born citizens.”
NO......they are not Sven. They are statutory citizens. A statutory Citizen is not a natural born Citizen. A statutory citizen (bestowed by man’s pen) can never be a “natural born” citizen (bestowed by God/nature).