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Detroit's new czar faces deep decay of city's neighborhoods
Reuters ^ | March 24, 2013 | Steve Neavling and Bernie Woodall

Posted on 03/24/2013 9:59:10 AM PDT by 1rudeboy

When the state-imposed manager of Detroit, Kevyn Orr, starts the job on Monday he will wade into a city of crumbling neighborhoods where police fail to respond to some calls, arson fires burn out of control and residents scour charred buildings for scrap metal to sell.

Except for the business district and a cultural area including a university, museum and some theaters, the city of Detroit, population 700,000, is in bad shape.

Orr, a Washington, D.C.-based bankruptcy lawyer, will have the official title of "Emergency Financial Manager." But his remit as an unelected administrator will range far beyond money.

His top priority on Day 1 will be improving public safety.

"We have to gain the public's trust, and to do that, we have to show progress with fire and police services," Orr told Reuters in an interview last week.

This could be what one former Detroit police chief called a "Herculean task" for Orr, recruited by Michigan's Republican Governor Rick Snyder to fix Detroit because of his "very successful career in restructuring and bankruptcy."

Orr's most notable career achievement to date was as a top lawyer in the restructuring of Detroit-area carmaker Chrysler.

Orr said he thinks the stories of Detroit's demise "are over-rated in my opinion." "The city center is a lot better than people thought," he said, and he hopes he can push that recovery momentum out to the neighborhoods.

As he travels a sprawling city larger than Boston, San Francisco and Manhattan combined, he will encounter the realities of Detroit's long downward slide.

(Excerpt) Read more at reuters.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events; US: District of Columbia; US: Michigan
KEYWORDS: bluezones; boston; chrysler; detroit; districtofcolumbia; kevynorr; liberalism; manhattan; michigan; ricksnyder; sanfrancisco; urban; washingtondc; welfarestate
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1 posted on 03/24/2013 9:59:10 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy




2 posted on 03/24/2013 10:01:26 AM PDT by Bon mots (Abu Ghraib: 47 Times on the front page of the NY Times | Benghazi: 2 Times)
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To: cripplecreek

for your list


3 posted on 03/24/2013 10:02:38 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy
Deep decay? As in *forthcoming* deep decay? Good God...I've been to Detroit...a couple of times...recently.THERE'S NOTHING LEFT TO DECAY!
4 posted on 03/24/2013 10:03:13 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative ("Progressives" toss the word "racist" around like chimps toss their feces)
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To: Gay State Conservative

That’s not true, but if that’s how you feel about it . . . .


5 posted on 03/24/2013 10:05:12 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy
Orr said he thinks the stories of Detroit's demise "are over-rated in my opinion." "The city center is a lot better than people thought,"

I tend to agree despite the beloved fantasies. The fact is that many much larger cities are racking up debt at an astounding rate with every intent of dumping it on the American taxpayer at some point.

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6 posted on 03/24/2013 10:05:21 AM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: 1rudeboy
Orr, a Washington, D.C.-based bankruptcy lawyer,

Who until last week had property leins on his property for non-payment of property taxes...
Unbelievable!! Birds of a feather??

7 posted on 03/24/2013 10:06:18 AM PDT by GoldenPup
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To: Springman; cyclotic; netmilsmom; RatsDawg; PGalt; FreedomHammer; queenkathy; madison10; ...
Let the bashing begin.

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Michigan legislative action thread
8 posted on 03/24/2013 10:08:27 AM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: 1rudeboy
Except for the business district and a cultural area including a university, museum and some theaters, the city of ...


9 posted on 03/24/2013 10:10:05 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (The monsters are due on Maple Street)
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To: UCANSEE2

It might just be too late for Detroit, no matter who takes charge.
I wish the guy luck. Detroit was home to many folks on my dad’s side.
They worked for Ford, on the line and in the office, when times were good.


10 posted on 03/24/2013 10:12:43 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks (NRA Life Member)
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To: 1rudeboy
As he travels a sprawling city larger than Boston, San Francisco and Manhattan combined, he will encounter the realities of Detroit's long downward slide.


11 posted on 03/24/2013 10:13:36 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (The monsters are due on Maple Street)
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To: 1rudeboy

Wow, talk about a thankless task. The corruptocrats have let Detroit run into the ground and they do not want anyone to find out where they’ve stashed the loot that they’ve pilfered. That’s why jesse jackson is coming to lead the inevitable protests - all that loot was pilfered by black politicians. As we all know, jesse and his family are as pure as the driven snow... Oh my bad! That’s racist!


12 posted on 03/24/2013 10:15:21 AM PDT by 43north (BHO: 50% black, 50% white, 100% RED)
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To: 1rudeboy
Canada is dumping huge sums of money into Detroit because they need it to be strong and now the time is right with the state in GOP hands. One reason is the simple economics of it being the second busiest freight crossing in North America.

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13 posted on 03/24/2013 10:15:25 AM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: 1rudeboy

Here’s hoping Mr. Orr has a first rate security detail, especially when he starts rooting out the political grafters.


14 posted on 03/24/2013 10:20:46 AM PDT by shove_it (Long ago Huxley, Orwell and Rand warned us about 0banana's USA.)
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To: 1rudeboy
Ever seen the show Extreme Pawn based in Detroit? That'll wake you right up about the natives.
15 posted on 03/24/2013 10:26:47 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I'll raise $2million for Sarah Palin's presidential run. What'll you do?)
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To: 1rudeboy
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16 posted on 03/24/2013 10:30:25 AM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: 1rudeboy

Decay? What decay? many parts of detroit are just dead? when a deer is just bones is it in decay or just plain gone?

What part of dead do not they understand? the suburbs of detroit is where life is at? Just like many large cities the city itself is dead.

How much money is going to be dumped into saving detroit?

In the little city I live in the UP of MI - $1.5 million dollars is being spent in just one building that has been empty for over 34 years. The rest of the city has problems but the infinite wisdom of the city administration spend on 1 building. Dumb Dumb.


17 posted on 03/24/2013 10:32:24 AM PDT by hondact200 (Candor dat viribos alas (sincerity gives wings to strength) and Nil desperandum (never despair))
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Comment #18 Removed by Moderator

To: 1rudeboy
Wow!! Sounds like what America is going to look like when Obama gets done with us!!!

So - who will WE call when & if he's ever out of office?

19 posted on 03/24/2013 10:42:10 AM PDT by LADY J (You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have. - Author Unknown)
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To: SunkenCiv

Yeah there is big private money flowing into the downtown area. If the GOP can spare a couple of brain cells, they might consider talking about the possibility of a Detroit convention again. (Its where Reagan gave his nomination acceptance speech)

Where others are typically retreating, I see a great opportunity for conservatives and the GOP.


20 posted on 03/24/2013 10:44:39 AM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: cripplecreek

Interesting chart. Thanks.


21 posted on 03/24/2013 10:45:44 AM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: Larry Lucido

Its from the Bureau of transportation statistics.

http://transborder.bts.gov/programs/international/transborder/TBDR_BC/TBDR_BC_Index.html


22 posted on 03/24/2013 10:50:14 AM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Are you referring to Hardcore Pawn? It is an eye opener!

Although, two or three seconds with fat stupid Ashley would set ME off!

23 posted on 03/24/2013 10:54:35 AM PDT by Enterprise ("Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire)
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To: LADY J

Prezbusters???


24 posted on 03/24/2013 11:12:30 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: hondact200

Steven Crowder visits Detroit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hhJ_49leBw


25 posted on 03/24/2013 11:13:25 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: 1rudeboy

What are the property taxes like in Detroit? How about the gun control laws?


26 posted on 03/24/2013 11:17:02 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Jack Hydrazine
Gun Control? In Detroit? LOLOL

Even when Michigan was not a CCW State, everyone had a gun in their car.

27 posted on 03/24/2013 11:26:51 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: cripplecreek

Even more amazing is the fact that one-third of the freight crossing from just those 20 listed on your chart occurs at crossings on the Texas/Mexico border.

No wonder the politicians don’t want to shut our border with Mexico down. NAFTA is quite alive and doing well for Mexico.


28 posted on 03/24/2013 11:26:55 AM PDT by Grams A (The Sun will rise in the East in the morning and God is still on his throne.)
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To: GoldenPup

The liens against Orr filed by the State of Maryland are for unpaid
unemployment comp payments related to his live in help - nanny problem.
He says he forgot - four years in a row.
But it’s ok - Orr be a bro. He’ll fit right in. Good work if you can get it.


29 posted on 03/24/2013 11:32:27 AM PDT by Palio di Siena
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To: 1rudeboy

I don’t have high hopes for Detroit’s future. Their situation is not unique, but is scale and the velocity of its decline have made it prominent in the news.

I grew up near Birmingham, Al - and they are going through the largest municipal bankruptcy in US history right now. So I’ve seen how it happens - and I can see it happening in Detroit right now. Admittedly, I haven’t been there in a while; but, you can ‘go’ there with Google Maps - and you can see large areas of vacant lots. Go to the street viewer, and you might see a nice house - but it is surrounded by vacant lots, piles of trash, boarded up houses, or half burned houses. A recent story was about failure to pay property taxes. The reason people don’t even bother to pay taxes is rooted in the extreme lack of value for real estate in the city. Thatis a huge problem.

I work in land development, and I have brainstormed with city leaders before, about how to get new home construction in the existing city limits. The major obastacle - value. In some inner city areas, I could get a lot for FREE, build a house on it, and never be able to sell it. This is because the cost of lumber, sheetrock, etc for a house exceeds the going rate for property in the area. So, you’re stuck - unless you use incentives like TIF districts, people aren’t going to build new houses. And, they aren’t going to invest heavily in maintaining existing housing.

We’ve mailed out surveys and taken polls. The major obstacles to property value in decayed cities (which likely apply to Detroit) are crime, infrastructure, and schools.

Crime - its not necessarily the big stuff. It just wears people down when they have flower pots stolen off their porch, they find needles in their front yard, and somebody steals the copper out of their ac unit.

Infrastructure - Again its not the big stuff you see on the nightly news, like ‘crumbling bridges’. Instead, its the alley that is hardly driveable behind the house, the water red with rust, or the street signs covered in spray paint. It just wears people down.

Schools - The most important one. Its like night and day, the varying level of school quality. And it doesn’t matter if your kids are grown or if you homeschool, your property value is hopelessly tied to school performance.

I should have added another category - options. Some areas, like the boroughs of New York, will never become detroit. Physical geography and commute time prevent ‘flight’ from the inner city. Sooner or later, areas in the cramped northeastern cities ‘come back’. Not even the worst areas of Philadelphia have widespread vacant lots like Detroit. But people in Detroit have options. I imagine pulling up stakes and leaving Detroit, to go to an adjacent city, doesn’t increase commute time by more than 15 minutes. There are alot of nice areas around Detroit...these are the people who found a different option. And, I’d imagine that all the stats about Detroit’s declining population are countered by large population growth in adjoining areas.

This is happening all over the mid-west, where land is plentiful. Like I said, its happened in Birmingham - and there are some geographic barriers there (Birmingham is at the tail of the Appalachain Mountains). My relatives who still live there now put up with hour long traffic jams every morning...and would likely be willing to put up with more.

I have no idea what the solution is....well, I have a few ideas but certainly no magic bullet. But trust me, Detroit’s decline is very real, and based on how other smaller cities have dealt with it, it can certainly get worse. I understand the commercial downtown is doing well - but there is a giant boat anchor, which is the rest of the city, holding it down.


30 posted on 03/24/2013 11:39:57 AM PDT by lacrew (Mr. Soetoro, we regret to inform you that your race card is over the credit limit.)
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To: 1rudeboy

I’m asking these questions that asks a larger question.

What will it take to make Detroit an economically viable city once again?

What will it take to attract people back?

Liberal gun laws? Low property taxes? Reducing city government to a limited and lean amount?

The freestaters could use this as a test case.


31 posted on 03/24/2013 11:47:05 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Jack Hydrazine; lacrew

I’d look to comment #30, which is well on the mark.


32 posted on 03/24/2013 11:48:17 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Jack Hydrazine

>> Liberal gun laws?

Counter-intuitive.


33 posted on 03/24/2013 11:52:00 AM PDT by Gene Eric (The Palin Doctrine.)
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To: lacrew

“And it doesn’t matter if your kids are grown or if you homeschool, your property value is hopelessly tied to school performance.”

That’s the biggest myth around. I remember reading in the news about 10 or 15 years ago about a kid who got a 1600 on his SAT while he was living in a car with his mother. The scholarship offers came rolling in right after that.

How was that possible from a homeless child? His mother pushed him to study and pursue his education.

What you see in Detroit is a failure of the home.


34 posted on 03/24/2013 11:53:14 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Gene Eric

I’m using “liberal” as in “lenient” or “generous.”


35 posted on 03/24/2013 11:57:17 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

My nephew bought a Detroit home for $1,500. His taxes are $5,000.


36 posted on 03/24/2013 12:15:54 PM PDT by Jacquerie ("How few were left who had seen the republic!" - Tacitus, The Annals)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

“That’s the biggest myth around.”

Trust me on this. You are wrong.

For sixteen years now, I have made my living in land development. Although we had rapid development and housing construction sustained for eleven of those years, the annual population growth in the area was 1.5%.

So why all the new houses? Its no big secret - people are fleeing from the bad school district. This is a very common phenomenon.

I don’t think you understood my statement. It doesn’t matter if a homeless woman can homeschool her kid in the truck of a car. It doesn’t matter if you yourself don’t have kids. It doesn’t matter if you do have kids and they thrivce in a bad school.

The value of your home is tied to what a buyer will pay for it. And, the number one driver in that valuation is schools. Period.


37 posted on 03/24/2013 12:16:16 PM PDT by lacrew (Mr. Soetoro, we regret to inform you that your race card is over the credit limit.)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

Detroit is already an open carry city. The real problems are social.


38 posted on 03/24/2013 12:28:47 PM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: 1rudeboy
"The city center is a lot better than people thought," he said, and he hopes he can push that recovery momentum out to the neighborhoods.

Downtown and Wayne State aren't the big problem. The problem is the thought process that a 'vibrant downtown' will save the city. Schools, jobs, crime, costs, and property values are the keys to a city/community.

39 posted on 03/24/2013 12:36:40 PM PDT by Darren McCarty (If most people were more than keyboard warriors, we might have won the election)
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To: Jack Hydrazine
What are the property taxes like in Detroit

Twice as high as Grosse Pointe. 62 mills.

40 posted on 03/24/2013 12:38:54 PM PDT by Darren McCarty (If most people were more than keyboard warriors, we might have won the election)
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To: Bon mots

Detroit’s purpose is to be an example to the rest of the nation - if a city’s looking for the ‘free lunch’ or the ‘easy way’ they’ll become a hellhole like Detroit.

It’s waaaaaay too early to go in to help this 3rd world type disaster. They need to try a few more liberal ideas first...


41 posted on 03/24/2013 12:48:54 PM PDT by GOPJ (DHS HAS secured: 1.6 BILLION bullets - 2.700 tanks and 35,000 drones ...to use on American soil...)
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To: 1rudeboy

Mr Orr is in a lose, lose situation.


42 posted on 03/24/2013 12:53:47 PM PDT by exnavy (Fish or cut bait ...Got ammo, Godspeed!)
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To: lacrew

That’s like the lie told by Leftists, “Poverty causes crime.” If that’s true Americans back in the Depression Era should have caused a bloodbath of ridiculous proportions.


43 posted on 03/24/2013 1:03:15 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: lacrew

There is home schooling plus parochial schools, private schools, charter schools and then public schools.

Is it just the lack money that makes people flee or the lack of social capital within families?


44 posted on 03/24/2013 1:05:35 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

I don’t know how else to tell you - bad schools poison property values. Its not a new theory, and its commonly accepted as obvious.

You think its a myth. Fine, I’m not going to convince you otherwise. BTW - could I interest you in a real estate opportunity :).

But I’m going to stick to my ‘myth’. Its paid my bills for 16 years designing new subdivisions; and, even in a recession, people are still trying to escape our bad school district (cha-ching!). Its possible the people fleeing the city just didn’t like the street names I guess...except when we mailed them surveys they listed bad schools as the number one reason for moving out. Hard one to call, but I’m going with the bad schools myth.


45 posted on 03/24/2013 1:41:16 PM PDT by lacrew (Mr. Soetoro, we regret to inform you that your race card is over the credit limit.)
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To: lacrew

But where do bad schools come from exactly?


46 posted on 03/24/2013 1:45:37 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (I’m not a Republican, I’m a conservative! Pubbies haven't been conservative since before T.R.)
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To: lacrew

What causes property values to decline?


47 posted on 03/24/2013 1:46:25 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (I’m not a Republican, I’m a conservative! Pubbies haven't been conservative since before T.R.)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

“What causes property values to decline?”

From my first post:

1. Crime
2. Infrastructure
3. Bad Schools

and the ‘option’ to move away.


48 posted on 03/24/2013 1:47:37 PM PDT by lacrew (Mr. Soetoro, we regret to inform you that your race card is over the credit limit.)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

“But where do bad schools come from exactly?”

Bad people, of course.

Bad teacher unions, bad administrators, bad funding schemes that kickback money to politicians. And of course bad parents who are absentee and don’t domesticate their children.

But, SO WHAT. It doesn’t change the facts that the schools, right now, are BAD. (And, quite frankly, the people left are the ‘bad’ ones. Good teachers, administrators, and parents will have gotten the heck out of there by now).

By looking for causes, you are really looking for solutions. I stated right out of the gate that I didn’t have any solutions. My treatise is purely on why I think Detroit will continue to decline. And it will, partially because of bad schools. No mythology there.


49 posted on 03/24/2013 1:57:07 PM PDT by lacrew (Mr. Soetoro, we regret to inform you that your race card is over the credit limit.)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

I knew what you meant, but just a comment on statistical usage.


50 posted on 03/24/2013 2:03:28 PM PDT by Gene Eric (The Palin Doctrine.)
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