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A mega mosque in a suburb that was 90 per cent white 30 years ago {United Kingdom}
Daily Mail ^ | 24 Mar 2013 | DAVID GOODHART

Posted on 03/26/2013 12:35:46 AM PDT by Cronos

Large-scale immigration has created an England that is increasingly full of mysterious and unfamiliar worlds — as I discovered one day sitting in an enormous minareted mosque in a sedate London suburb among thousands of men in Pashtun dress listening to the words of an elderly man.

Merton's mosque, which dominates the skyline of the south London suburb, and can accommodate 10,000 people, replaced an Express Dairies bottling plant which provided a few hundred jobs for local people and lots of milk bottles an icon of an earlier, more homogenised age.

The symbolism is not lost on the mainly white older residents, who did not seem to be embracing diversity with as much enthusiasm

Britain is heading for an ethnic minority population of around 25 per cent by the end of this decade polite apartheid reigns: an accommodation rather than an integration. The white population has more or less reluctantly shuffled along the bench and allowed others to sit down.

Since 1980, Merton’s minority population has risen from 10 per cent to over 50 per cent today. Its primary schools — which were still majority white as recently as 2003 — are now 64 per cent ethnic minority. The area has become, in the jargon, ‘super diverse’

There is no dominant minority in Merton, which helps to make the changes feel less threatening; but there is not much evidence of a common life being built together either. London is not the happily colour-blind multi-racial city that many people like to imagine.

You can see it in action at weekends in a small park close to Morden station. On a sunny day, the place is usually full but divided along ethnic lines: large groups of Pakistani women picnicking with children, Polish guys drinking beer, young Indian men playing cricket, Africans playing basketball.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: britain; immigration; islam; wot
Except for the Moslem angle, I don't believe this is a complete tragedy. The facts are that people are moving around. What is needed is a way to integrate people better.

It's happened in the past in the UK -- the English in effect are a mongrel nation with Saxon, Danish, Norman-French, etc. blood and it worked.

The problem is the pace of change

New, skilled immigrants may know more about their adopted country and be more grateful than liberals born in the country (think Jane Fonda...)

As the article says Economically, many minority Mertonites are doing pretty well in their enclaves. The Indians and Chinese are doing best of all in school and in jobs, closely tracked by Koreans and Tamils. As in the national picture, the white British are somewhere in the middle.

1 posted on 03/26/2013 12:35:47 AM PDT by Cronos
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To: Cronos

Wrong. England is lost. Demographics rule countries, not wishful thinking.


2 posted on 03/26/2013 12:39:11 AM PDT by HMS Surprise (Chris Christie can STILL go straight to hell.)
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To: Cronos

At this rate, the Moslems won’t have to kill us all in their jihad - they’ll just buy up, move in, and push us all out.


3 posted on 03/26/2013 12:41:37 AM PDT by Jack Hammer
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To: Cronos

Not quite. Without the other cultures being willing to,adopt British culture, it is almost inevitable that Britain will disappear and, without the other cultures integrating but keeping to themselves, blood will be shed.

Britain is heading towards the same sort of chaos and blood wars that every other non-western nation tends to experience regularly.


4 posted on 03/26/2013 12:49:20 AM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults)
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To: Cronos

What are you thinking? Look at the demographics and at who is having children. English peeps=Birth Control/abortion and Muslims=reproducing with 4 wives at a time with no limit on girls. Girls can have babies and more babies, maybe 12 each with 4+ fathers contributing sperm legally.

Which one do you think will win. Us with a weak faith or them with their reproduction? No contest.


5 posted on 03/26/2013 12:51:18 AM PDT by tinamina
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To: Cronos

“Except for the Moslem angle, I don’t believe this is a complete tragedy.

The facts are that people are moving around. What is needed is a way to integrate people better.

It’s happened in the past in the UK — the English in effect are a mongrel nation with Saxon, Danish, Norman-French, etc. blood and it worked.”


No, it’s a complete tragedy. England has been stripped of it’s national identity in just over sixty years. Goodhart had an article over the weekend where he correctly pointed out the immigration into England was minimal and practically non-existent form 1066 to 1950. Then, post-WWII, the floodgates to immigration from the Third World were opened so great that on any given year now more immigrants arrive than during the previous 900 years combined. That’s absurd. The English have a right to their land with their identity, and politicians had no right to strip the people of that.

Further, you mention Scots, Welsh, etc. The truth is that those groups were far more assimilable to England because they are of the same genetic stock and have cultures that are not wildly dissimilar. Muslims are not a good fit for England because, for the most part, Mudlims are not as assimilable in England as the groups you mentioned. Many Muslims prefer to keep their Muslim customs when they conflict with a host country’s customs and law.

Further, most Muslims in England are Pakistani. You may have noticed that people typically side with a candidate who is of their race or who promises benefits to their race. Simply put — race matters in both how people conduct themselves and how they view others. That’s why multiracial and multicultural societies are fraught with more internal conflict than more homogenous societies.

Enoch Powell was right.


6 posted on 03/26/2013 1:02:55 AM PDT by NotYourAverageDhimmi
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To: Cronos
Yes modern English are the sum of numerous peoples who have immigrated into Britain in the past 1600 years (although according to the most recent genetic analyses they are nowhere near as ethnically diverse as was once thought - the predominant racial heritage of modern English people is Celtic).

BUT, and it's a big but, Britain only survived and flourished because the various component tribes and nationalities lived under a common umbrella. People were very much British first, and the various tribal loyalties came second. In other words, there was an overiding arc that united all these disparate groups. In modern Britain that doesn't seem to be happening - perhaps because, as you say, its' all happened so quickly - and that is going to mean trouble. Multiculturalism is fine, IF people rejoice in the differences. But modern Britain (and the modern USA) seems to be becoming defined by those differences, and that's not a good trend.

7 posted on 03/26/2013 1:17:09 AM PDT by Vanders9
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To: Vanders9

Britain and most of the west have forgotten what got them to where they are and have tossed God aside. The result is what we see here.

How is that contraception working out for you? Not very well, apparently.


8 posted on 03/26/2013 2:06:32 AM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas is a state of mind - Steinbeck)
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To: Cronos
It's happened in the past in the UK -- the English in effect are a mongrel nation with Saxon, Danish, Norman-French, etc. blood and it worked.

You are nuts. Study Muslim history to discover why.

9 posted on 03/26/2013 2:07:30 AM PDT by montag813
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To: Cronos
are now 64 per cent ethnic minority

So if they're the majority...how can they be a minority?

10 posted on 03/26/2013 4:00:32 AM PDT by Regulator
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To: Vanders9; NotYourAverageDhimmi; Cronos

Even with their fairly common genetic background, and at least reasonably similar cultures, look how much the English, the Scots and the Irish fought each other over the centuries. Throw in a bunch of ill educated, religiously bigoted people of a completely different culture with a history of violent hostility to the West, and what could possibly go wrong?


11 posted on 03/26/2013 4:10:17 AM PDT by Hardastarboard (Buck Off, Bronco Bama)
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To: Regulator
War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance Diversity is strength.
12 posted on 03/26/2013 4:12:53 AM PDT by Fresh Wind (The last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away.)
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To: HMS Surprise

Exactly. I was about to post “Demographics is destiny and Britain is lost.”


13 posted on 03/26/2013 4:17:40 AM PDT by Wyatt's Torch (I can explain it to you. I can't understand it for you.)
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To: Cronos
Due here by the year 2020 - ARE YOU READY?

1400 years – 270 MILLION innocents murdered by “the prophet" followers!!!

A Brilliant Living-room Dissertation on Islam

14 posted on 03/26/2013 4:19:26 AM PDT by wesagain (The God #Elohim# of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the One True GOD.)
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To: Cronos

thats not an earthquake...

Our English ancestors who fought in the Crusades are rolling over in their graves..


15 posted on 03/26/2013 4:23:50 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Jonty30
well, I lived in the UK from 2000 to 2005 and I can tell you that British culture is not the "British culture" that we know of -- that died out in the 60s and 70s

Modern British culture is about:
1. No religion
2. lots of shopping -- worshipping at the mall on Sunday
3. binge drinking on weekends
4. lots of random sex, starting from when you are 13 or even younger (yes)
5. acceptance of every liberal cause, from gay marriage or whatever
6. championing the welfare state, NHS, etc
7. football (soccer)
8. Making fun of the French (if you're English) or the English (if you're Scottish)

Sadly, all of what Britain great is gone and it had nothing to do with immigrants.

Currently British culture = gay-welfareState-sex-booze-liberal culture.

Britain as you or I know it is gone.

16 posted on 03/26/2013 5:00:00 AM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: Jonty30
Britain is heading towards the same sort of chaos and blood wars that every other non-western nation tends to experience regularly.

you mean like WWI or WWII? :)

17 posted on 03/26/2013 5:00:35 AM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: NotYourAverageDhimmi
1. I specifically said "Except for the Moslem angle"

2. Pakistanis are the same race as the English -- both are Aryanic, i.e. Indo-European people

18 posted on 03/26/2013 5:09:09 AM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: montag813

Did you even read my opening remark “Except for the Moslem angle”?


19 posted on 03/26/2013 5:09:57 AM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: Regulator

Because there is no one minority dominating as the article says — 36% are British origin, but the rest are either Pakistani or CAribbean or African or Indian-aryanic or Indian-Tamil or Arab or Chinese or Polish or Bulgarian or Russian etc.


20 posted on 03/26/2013 5:11:01 AM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: JCBreckenridge
How is that contraception working out for you? Not very well, apparently.

Indeed - how ironic that the old Monty Python "Every Sperm is Sacred" song and dance number would be more applicable as an instructional video than as humor.

21 posted on 03/26/2013 5:17:47 AM PDT by Charles Martel (Endeavor to persevere...)
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To: Cronos

Great, you’re still wrong on two counts..

First, even if you remove the “Moslem angle” you still have millions of Third World people pouring into a First World white nation. The differences in the societies they creat and the leaders they will side with will cause great tension and conflict, raise crime, and strain the welfare system — even minus the “Moslem angle”. Look around and you’ll see that’s happening throughout Europe.

Second, Pakistanis are mixed people. Not all are majority Caucasoid, nor would many self-identify as being of the same peoples as Englishmen. Plus note that while I discussed races, I also discussed multiculturalism and the problems that arise when races or cultures collide.  Wiki notes that:  ”Asian cultural values have clashed with British ones, which tend to be more free thinking and independent. British Pakistanis live in some of the most segregated areas of Britain, and their children attend the most segregated schools.  The British government has made attempts to improve community cohesion by nurturing a sense of shared or collective national identity. One programme designed to encourage greater social mixing includes the busing of students of Pakistani origin to “white schools” in an attempt to bridge the divide between the British Pakistani and white British ethnic groups.” — That’s to do just as much with culture and self-perceived race more than it is with Muslim customs.


22 posted on 03/26/2013 5:42:22 AM PDT by NotYourAverageDhimmi
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To: Cronos

No. More like the blood feuds, and genocidal wars, of Africa and Middle East.


23 posted on 03/26/2013 6:02:20 AM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults)
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To: Tennessee Nana

They won’t even fight this time. Programmed by the hometown Fabian Socialists and Labour policies, their own armies will imprison them before death.

Buh bye.


24 posted on 03/26/2013 8:20:43 AM PDT by wac3rd (Somewhere in Hell, Ted Kennedy snickers....)
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To: Cronos
It's happened in the past in the UK -- the English in effect are a mongrel nation with Saxon, Danish, Norman-French, etc. blood and it worked.

Are you effing insane? Do you know what happened to the native Britons under Saxon rule/invasion? do you know what happened to the Britons and Saxons under the Vikings? Do you remember the subjugation of the Saxons by the Normans or the fact that they are stilled a people ruled by a foreign monarch, in many respects? And you want to more foreign invasion and subjugation?
In what sense are you a conservative?
25 posted on 03/26/2013 11:46:40 AM PDT by rmlew ("Mosques are our barracks, minarets our bayonets, domes our helmets, the believers our soldiers.")
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To: rmlew
do you know what happened to the Britons and Saxons under the Vikings?

The Vikings didn't reach into the Briton's areas much except for Dun Claith

The Saxons were subjugated by the Danes, but not exterminated or pushed out. In fact since the Danes spoke a variation of the same Germanic that the Saxons did, the two groups were more or less interchangeable

Do you remember the subjugation of the Saxons by the Normans or the fact that they are stilled a people ruled by a foreign monarch, in many respects? -- I know it better than you -- did you even read my point about "except Moslems"?

If the Brits have lost their culture and now have a gay-loving liberal culture, then it being replaced is no loss.

and, i've lived in the UK, so my experience is that they have lost their culture. If you were talking about Ole Blighty culture being taken over by foreigners, then yes, it would be tragic, but "gay-good, NHS-good" culture being wiped away is not a tragedy.

If this was being replaced by the old 50s English culture, good, that's preferable. But that is not happening, not even in the UKIP or EDF.

26 posted on 03/26/2013 7:53:21 PM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: Jonty30
well, Africa is a specific case -- for most countries the borders don't make any sense, splitting tribes and putting antagonistic tribes in one country together

Take Rwanda and Burundi. Both have Hutus and Tutsis.

The two tribes don't get along, so why are there 2 countries with the same explosive mix? Why not one country for hutus and one for tutsis?

A true multi-ethnic state can work if the individual nations are not split across borders and if the individual nations get a high degree of independence -- like US states.

27 posted on 03/26/2013 7:56:12 PM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: NotYourAverageDhimmi
The differences in the societies they creat and the leaders they will side with will cause great tension and conflict, raise crime, and strain the welfare system — even minus the “Moslem angle”. Look around and you’ll see that’s happening throughout Europe.

minus the Moslem angle and you don't get that much

Take the UK as an example -- Indians whether Hindu or Christian or Sikh have close to 0 dependence on the welfare state, in fact they contribute money to it

Indians in the UK have the highest income rates, the highest rates of college education etc. and these are many people who came with just the clothes on their back when kicked out of Uganda by Idi Amin

Among the indians -- hindu/christian/sikh there is practically 0 representation among the prison population

and

if you read the latest statistics on children born out of wedlock in the UK you see that 70% of Caribbean, 46% of native white British children were born out of wedlock in 2010, but nearly 0% of Indian children were born out of wedlock

This persistence to the traditional family leads to the economic dividends noted above

It's the same, to a lower extent, among Chinese and other Asians

So, you can't club all the "third world" migrants the same -- Indians and Chinese contribute to the exchequer and provide traditional families, even when the native whites do not

throughout Europe the majority of immigrants from OUTSIDE europe are Moslems, with the typical Moslem problems --> i say kick Moslems out and agree with you on that, but if you look at Sri Lankans in France or Indians in Portugal you'll see that these "third world immigrants" have 0 dependence on welfare, higher education, higher earning and a persistence to the traditional family

Also, what is not spoken about is the large immigration within Europe -- to the UK a number of Poles moved (Polish is now the second largest language spoken in the UK after english) and they retain traditional values

28 posted on 03/26/2013 8:03:23 PM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: NotYourAverageDhimmi
Second, Pakistanis are mixed people. Not all are majority Caucasoid

Not really. Pakistanis have some Arab and some mongol (Hazara) blood, but they are close to 99% Caucasoid (mostly Indo-European but some Dravidian blood as well)

29 posted on 03/26/2013 8:04:31 PM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: NotYourAverageDhimmi
nor would many self-identify as being of the same peoples as Englishmen.

true

”Asian cultural values have clashed with British ones, which tend to be more free thinking and independent. British Pakistanis live in some of the most segregated areas of Britain, and their children attend the most segregated schools. -- the irritating thing is that the press and newspeak uses "Asian" when they mean "Moslems"

Indian Hindus, Christians and Sikhs in the UK are sick of this -- the indians are model citizens with low to 0 crime, high earning, high job-creation, high education etc. and hate being bundled in with Pakis.

30 posted on 03/26/2013 8:06:06 PM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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